Categories
a voice for men announcements MRA reddit

Fundraiser to send Sworebytheprecious to Detroit to report on you-know-what

Not literally a dark horse, but close enough.
Not literally a dark horse, but close enough.

Sworebytheprecious, a regular in the AgainstMensRights subreddit, is trying to raise money so she can get to Detroit to report on that A Voice for Men conference you might have heard about. And you can help!

Here’s her pitch, from her GoFundMe page:

Lissie (akaSworebythePrecious) wants to get to Detroit to report on the convention held by A Voice for Men and Paul Elam. She also wants to start up a website for Project Dark Horse. Who wants to help?

Our goal is $1000. We’ll be posting receipts. We want to rent a car, get a room, and get a plane ticket. I also want to talk to some of the protesters who were bothered last Saturday.

So far she’s raised a little over $200, but I’m sure we can help her raise a lot more than that. If she goes over $1000, the money will go to charity or to help build a website for Project Dark Horse, dedicated to exposing the bullshit of the Men’s Rights movement in general and AVFM in particular. More details on Dark Horse here, and on her fundraiser here on the GoFundMe page.

 

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

99 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Nathan Hevenstone
6 years ago

If it’s still going on Wednesday and my budget can handle it, I’ll donate. Can’t donate much, but I can donate a bit, and that’s what matters…

malcolm johnston (@malcolmingabout)

Well that should be fun. I hope to see her there.

thewatchingdog
thewatchingdog
6 years ago

The Adventure begins…

House Mouse Queen
6 years ago

I’d love to but AMR gave me da boot.

strivingally
6 years ago

Ugh. See the “You seem like a nice kid, anyway” where Fidelbogen has responded on the fundraiser page is particularly vile. And the fact that both he and Esmay have chosen to make it clear she’s come to their attention is pretty obviously meant to be an intimidation tactic. I’d happily donate so she can stick a microphone in their faces and ask them about all their hateful shit without giving them time to spin.

bunnybunny
bunnybunny
6 years ago

Not sure why Fidelbogen is discouraging her so hard – I thought all publicity was good publicity!

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

Your “dark horse” looks like a rottie/Lab mix and I need it.

kittehserf
6 years ago

emilygoddess, you take the horse, I’ll take the rider!

Dark Horse Swore
Dark Horse Swore
6 years ago

thanks so much, David, for this excellent write up. we now have a plane ticket and we are at 305. i have been in touch with Elam who doubts i will be there, or that i have an audience. he called me slurs, told me to go fuck myself, and boy have i pissed him off. nevertheless i am still hopeful for a press pass and some interviews.

ive also been in touch with the IRS and Texas attorney general. someone forgot to pay his taxes. someone didn’t raise his funds for this conference under an llc, but pretended to. someone doesn’t have an llc that should be raising funds.

well, he asked for a new woman to hate. they got one.

@DarkHorseSwore

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Interesting. I was wondering about the tax thing. Thanks for digging!

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

I’d donate, but I’m already over budget for the month. Nonetheless, you rock!

kittehserf
6 years ago

Good work, Dark Horse Swore – and wouldn’t I love to see the IRS clean Pauly out.

Sworebytheprecious (@DarkHorseSwore)

thanks everyone!

strivingally
6 years ago

Isn’t it just *charming* how assholes like Elam do the solicitous niceness schtick in public venues (like your fundraising page, @DarkHorseSwore/Lissie) and save their vitriol and venom for hidden avenues of communication?

He seems like a nice kid, anyway – it’d be a shame if the IRS investigated him into the Stone Age. :.)

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

I’ve donated. Just glad to have the means to be able to do so. Looking forwards excitedly to the reports and seeing these charmers put on the spot.

daintydougal
daintydougal
6 years ago

I would be MASSIVELY surprised if this conference actually happens. They’ve drawn too much attention to themselves. Even they know they work best shrouded in the anonymity of the internet.
Also is anything going to come of judgyb!tch libeling the venue manager?

Sworebytheprecious (@DarkHorseSwore)

thanks everyone (especially titianblue <3)

they don't intimidate me, but i will candidly here, admit to some fears i do have.

dean doesn't scare me (actually he seems kind of funny; check out his amazon reviews). neither does Fidelbogen. not one follower down to the last. Elam, however, i see without any sort of humor, a defense mechanism which his hate and conviction renders null.

he's not especially charismatic or very good in front of the camera, but he speaks well and that is his strength. he communicates better when he is allowed the advantage of a recorded message , and his channel makes it clear you are better served to understand him if you listen to his audio instead of video. i suspect he's not comfortable with being watched.

in his 20/20 interview, a perfect demonstration of his strengths and weaknesses, you'll notice he has trouble looking into the eyes of his interviewer. on camera, he often looks as if he wants nothing more than to find an exit, his discomfort clear. i don't trust a man who has trouble looking people in the eyes. i especially don't trust a man like him who has trouble looking women in the eyes. he has no trouble with some of the women who agree with him.

as far as cults of personality go, this is de rigor. he's absolutely not unique. he compels because he is not unique. and that leaves me hear wondering about other men who have made themselves as martyrs, desperate for an audience of their own.

marci
6 years ago

Hmm, I’m next door to Michigan…maybe I should think about taking a road trip.

Taino
Taino
6 years ago

As mentioned above, the conference probably won’t happen. AVfM could walk and save face because the public does seem to accept that they are underdogs run out of town by feminists. The conference is a big publicity stunt crafted to attract membership and they already got that accomplished so whats the point?

jared
jared
6 years ago

@DarkHorseSwore

I have no problem with donating for a cause like this will be glad to. I commend you because you are one courageous woman and please be safe. Taino has a point that possibly with all the commotion, this conference may not even happen and would not be shocked if Elam finds some sort of excuse to back out. He may be realizing now he is outnumbered that the protesters will be a greater force that any of the so called mra’s. I don’t think Elam can handle all of this stuff. But if it does go on it will be a very emotional combative scene. Have a safe trip and thanks DarkHorseSwore for keeping us here up to date on the shenanigans of Elam and his cohorts.

Taino
Taino
6 years ago

Elam should pull out this week and not next. He has to do it before the feminist threat is proven to be a hoax and AVfM loses the underdog status. Once he is out, that proof would be far less consequential.

sarah
sarah
6 years ago

The venue manager has not responded to the email I sent informing them of the libelous twitter comment.

strivingally
6 years ago

If this conference doesn’t go ahead, and Elam has $29k of money for security that’s no longer required, he could:

A) take that money and contribute it to a worthwhile cause that does something constructive to help men and boys – like, say, organisations working to reduce gun violence in the USA (which disproportionately affects males), or perhaps some of the fine NGOs working in Africa & Asia to stop the use of child soldiers, who are mostly boys. This would mean that avfm had actually done something good for the world for once.

B) Continue to complain about how women are responsible for all bad things in the world without doing a damn thing to actually make things better for men and boys, instead spreading his hateful distortions of facts and encouraging other men to use threats, intimidation and violent rhetoric to silence their critics. Also, what money?

Either Paul proves us right and remains a prime target for mockery, or he makes the world a better place for once in his spiteful, petty life. How’s that for a “challenge” ? (To steal a buzzword from MikeB 😉 )

Jo
Jo
6 years ago

Lissie and David know so much more than me about fighting misogyny that I’m hesitant to ask, but….

Given that AVFM regularly proves themselves to be hateful and incompetent on their website, is there any point in spending a bunch of money to send someone out to see them being hateful and incompetent in person? Especially since the odds are good she’ll just be banned from the venue.

An I missing something?

Sworebytheprecious (@DarkHorseSwore)
Reply to  daintydougal

(sigh) well, if the conference doesn’t happen, Elam’s dug himself quite a whole. he’s already committed fraud and raised a bunch of money on Paypal under the name of an LLC seized by Texas for tax forfeiture, so maybe this is just his grand hurrah before he takes the money and runs. i’m surprised no one in Texas has tried to come after him or A Voice for Men, LLC for libel, slander, hate speech or fraud. the state seems interested but the government is slow so individuals may have greater traction. if your business is sued in Texas and your registration and everything is out of date, you cannot mount an affirmative defense against the charges and Elam’s individual assets are forfeit rather than the business as it does not legally exist. moreover, because his site’s terms of service listed AVfM as property of said defunct LLC, he can’t really dodge and say “hey but my fans know i take the money and it all goes to me!!!” that’s not the point. furthermore, his Better Business Bureu page, his Facebook page listing for search engine aggregation, and one of his video channels were listed as non-profits (i took screencaps of all of it). that’s enough right there for the IRS and Texas.

and hey: this is a win-win! if the conference doesn’t happen, than i get to make a website to report on more of this shit, plus donate the extra funds to charity. if it happens, we’ll be meeting them on their own turf.

Binjabreel
Binjabreel
6 years ago

I don’t actually think they’d have the power to completely ban her; the vfw halls are semi-public spaces run with public money. The rules on being able to keep people out are actually somewhat sticky. And if she could manage to get press credentials, they’d be really fucked.

But in the larger scheme, yes, someone should definitely be there to film and record what these hateful asshats are doing, if only so they can’t pretend to not be hateful asshats.

Cyberia
Cyberia
6 years ago

Sworebytheprecious, please take very good care of yourself during this quest. Hope everything goes well. Donated the little bit I could. Good luck 🙂

etherizedonatable
etherizedonatable
6 years ago

If Elam had any sense, he’d use this opportunity to show people that the conference and his organization are legit and try to get some good publicity out of it anyway (“See, we let an evil woman in and nothing bad happened!”). Since he doesn’t have any sense, he’s going to try to intimidate Sworebytheprecious.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

Question: Do you feel comfortable attending this event alone, Lissie? I would feel very threatened. I’m super impressed.

Shane Waters
6 years ago

I will be there, I have already gotten together a group of about 25 people to protest! I think the actual topics covered will be quite boring, in reality. You have to understand in the scheme of things, the MRA really is trying to paint feminists as bad guys. Literally everything from their honey badger sitdown to the guest speakers is an attempt to paint a radically different picture to the public than reality. I too originally came to learn about the MRA from genuine concerns about boys issues, and if you came to the picture recently, it would appear they are all lovers and just trying to do what is right from the world. Then, a feminist friend linked me to all the articles they cleaned up, and i found myself learning more and more of the rottenness that is Ellam and his borderline con artist practices. Even though. i do not label myself a feminist, any rational person when faced with truths of this magnitude would fight the group doing it. Anyone else who plans on being there, feel free to send me a message, my facebook is Shane Waters Detroit Michigan, im working on a neon sign project with the words “begging for [rape]” Ellam, with the intention of protesting using Ellams own words. I think a public reading of the neon sign article, and the aquit guilty rapists article would expose many to the crackpottery more than anything else will. The best way to destroy the MRA is to use their own words, anyone who still supports such drivel is crazier than Esmays rape denial.

cloudiah
6 years ago

I’ll donate once I get to a proper computer.

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

Given that AVFM regularly proves themselves to be hateful and incompetent on their website, is there any point in spending a bunch of money to send someone out to see them being hateful and incompetent in person? Especially since the odds are good she’ll just be banned from the venue.

An I missing something?

So the idea is that we (as in AMR) kind of want to have someone there to take notes. That’s pretty much it. MRAs are notorious for calling for “free speech”, so hopefully she won’t actually be kicked out or anything. I’m personally crossing my fingers that she’ll be let in.

Also, swore, lots of love and hope you stay safe!

strivingally
6 years ago

I love that the notable names in anti-feminism keep telling Lissie she’ll be disappointed and everybody will be perfectly civil to her.

You can’t put that much venomous loathing for women together in one space and then tell everyone to be on their best behaviour because one of your detractors is present. Some of the poison will leak out anyway. It’s like a Tea Party rally – their idea of “toning it down” still looks pretty damn aggressive and bigoted to a reasonable person.

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

strivingally – I think this exchange in AMR demonstrates this perfectly:

Esmy – The false threat narrative against us is rather wearisome stereotyping. If you’re in the building you’ll likely find you’ve never been in a safer place.

LeslieKnope4pope (AMR regular) – Now now. Women need to take reasonable precautions for their safety!

Seriously, if MRAs hurt swore, they’d blame her for leading them on. But taking precautions because you know you’re going into a pit of vipers is misandry of the highest order.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

You have to understand in the scheme of things, the MRA really is trying to paint feminists as bad guys.

Yes, thank you, because the commenters on this site dedicated to mocking the MRM had no idea what they were about.

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

The best way to destroy the MRA is to use their own words, anyone who still supports such drivel is crazier than Esmays rape denial

Hey Argenti, do you still accept horses for ableist comments?

Sworebytheprecious (@DarkHorseSwore)

welp, i took the time to get press credentials for when i’m actually gonna be on the floor, but i don’t know if they’ll actually let me in or not. It’s a NPPA pass so i’d just be recording and taking pictures, not asking questions, editorializing, or interfering as per membership standards when i am within the conference bounds. Judgy asked via Twitter if i had one to get in as press, so i paid and registered as a professional courtesy, since it seemed like a reasonable request for her to make of me. i didn’t expect to be let in but it never hurts to try. i read the rules and realized this would mean at least two pieces: one multimedia based piece not editorialized for any specific goal, and one made in the spirit of the project. i believe i am able to separate the two and still remain faithful to both. then Judgy rescinded her offer.

i mean, i get not letting me in. that’s fair: they are allowed to restrict who’s in their private event, no questions asked. but why ask and offer it if you don’t intend to follow through after i tried to meet you halfway? that’s just mean-spirited and trite.

because i got the credentials and i’ve already reported elsewhere in a journalistic manner that i believe AVfM LLC and Paul Elam are likely accepting funds illegally, i am ethically bound not to financially support them (not that i would anyways) in either my capacity as a journalist OR as a private citizen. in other words i couldn’t buy a ticket even if i wanted to anymore. this could probably be stretched, but i’d like to stay on the far side just to be safe. but we’ll see what happens. maybe they’ll soften their stance.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

ive also been in touch with the IRS and Texas attorney general. someone forgot to pay his taxes. someone didn’t raise his funds for this conference under an llc, but pretended to. someone doesn’t have an llc that should be raising funds.

I have long wondered about him taking funds for living expenses and what the IRS might think about that. Thanks for doing this, I hope the IRS crawls up his ass so far they’ll get stuck in his throat if he coughs.

LBT (with writeathon poll!)

RE: marci

Hmm, I’m next door to Michigan…maybe I should think about taking a road trip.

I found out that I’m less than a five hour bus ride from Detroit myself, and the tickets are only like $35. I’m not sure if I’d be more or less likely to get my ass kicked at a MRA con… if it even happens. And no way I could afford that fucking $250 ticket. (Which is totally highway robbery.)

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Wow, Shane has the splaining virus pretty bad. I appreciate the effort in terms of protesting and all but damn, dude, maybe try not assuming that the women who’ve been tracking this group that you just found out about for years are idiots.

cloudiah
6 years ago

maybe try not assuming that the women who’ve been tracking this group that you just found out about for years are idiots.

Seriously. We have collectively a significant number of decades of organizing/activist experience here.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Dark Horse, otoh, you’re awesome. Will you be meeting up with anyone there? I wouldn’t trust this lot not to try to physically harm you, so I’m hoping you have some local contacts just in case you need them.

The faffing about with the media is just part 35345435 of “Judgy Bitch wouldn’t recognize professional behavior if it bit her on the ass”. Which is kind of sad, because she does seem to be the closest thing to a media-savvy organizer they have.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

@ cloudiah

He’s right not to call himself a feminist, that’s for sure.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

I hope Shane learns to spell Elam’s name before making a neon sign. That shit ain’t cheap.

taitaisanchez
6 years ago

600 bucks in two days. I’m proud of the gynocracy right now.

dustedeste
dustedeste
6 years ago

hellkell, I think he was just referring to the specific quote Elam made about some women having a neon sign telling men to rape them over their heads? That said, I would hope that his protest strategy doesn’t involve any written words, because the spelling and grammar in his comment are kinda atrocious. I had a difficult time following.

Even better, though, he could maybe stop being a patronizing twit and cease bragging about how he’s totes not a feminist over here (but we should all listen to his grand wisdoms and be super grateful that he’s lending his manly manful protective protestings to our cause, since us poor wimminz clearly don’t have the manbrains or mancourage or manpower to do it ourselves)

Sworebytheprecious (@DarkHorseSwore)

thanks everyone! steps to ensure my safety are being taken. thanks for all the wonderful offers of assistance. we have a/v set and we’re good for lodging and the like. looks like i have a bit of work to do, eh? but this has gone far and above my expectations. Elam got 33k in a number of days, and though my aims are much more modest, i like to think the goal is much better. now to concoct a ploy to blame my 20k in student loans on misandry… oh wait, that was my own mistake. no dice :p

i think maybe be were being a bit unfair to Shane. he’s trying, which is more than most do, and anyone can show up. although a small group was more of what i had in mind originally, because i don’t know how a protest would work in with what i’m aiming to do. sometimes big draws just drown everyone in noise. i intended a more personal touch.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Shane is trying to what?

He’s trying to see women as people, but no so much that he’d call himself a feminist?

He’s trying not to be sexist, but then failing by talking to us like we’re the one’s who are new?

He’s realized something is wrong and he’s going out of his way to try to do something to make it right. That is commendable. But he’s not going to ever be much of an ally if we coddle him and treat him like he’s too special a snowflake to get called out. He’s doing more than most? Really? He’s going to one protest and that’s more than most people do for feminist causes? That’s not more than I’ve done. It’s not more than alot of women I’ve known have done. When we screw up intersectionality, I want us to get called out fast before we can do real but unintentional damage. He wants to help and that’s great. If he really wants to help, he needs to pay attention because these criticisms are valid and taking them to heart would help Shane do what he says he wants to do.

He stepped on some toes. I think you can see why. I don’t think it’s unfair to let him know. After all, how else is he going to do better if no one tells him he’s making mistakes?

I once referred to a person as “oriental” and got my ass handed to me in front of a group of people I barely knew. It was humiliating. I thought the guy who called me out was such a jerk. I wasn’t trying to be racist! I didn’t know any better!
Then I realized that I had been the rude one and that he had saved me from making an ass of myself ever again. I’m glad he did. I don’t want to be an ignorant racist who feels entitled to say insulting shit to people, even accidentally.

Shane can hang in there and try to do better, or he can decide we’re big meanies and ignore us. But, if he comes at us like that again, he’s going to be corrected again.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
6 years ago

I’m very confused. Dean Esmay rolled out the welcome mat on your GoFundMe page and JB overruled him?

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

…and to be fair, I am a big meanie. I’m a meanie, meanie jelly beanie.