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"Stealing me for daddy’s money hurts me too," and other nuggets of wisdom from some dude’s MRA memes

Woah, dude, that's like ... incomprehensible.
Woah, dude, that’s like … incomprehensible.

Sometimes I wonder if we’re being unfair to Men’s Rights Activists by allowing them to handle their own publicity. I mean, it’s pretty clear that they’re terrible at it. Worse than terrible, really. Terribler. Possibly the terriblest.

I mean, just this week we saw the official social media director of A Voice for Men’s conference in Detroit announcing the conference’s new venue with this:

https://twitter.com/JudgyBitch1/statuses/476822883881459712

Bloomfield now claims this was her attempt to “troll” people like you and me by tweeting what I guess she’s now saying is a thoroughly awful fake quote which for some reason she has decided to attribute to a real person. This makes so little sense by normal human standards that I find this explanation a little hard to believe — but I guess I’m just getting trolled by my own skepticism? Oh, Judgy Bitch, you got me!

https://twitter.com/JudgyBitch1/statuses/476822883881459712

Whoops! I guess I got trolled a third time!

And … oh, for a second there I thought I was going to be trolled again, but I stood firm. For now.

Anyway, all this is just a long intro for some Actual Authentic I Didn’t Make These Up Honest to Goodness Men’s Rights Memes that I discovered on the blog of someone named Francis Roy, an MRA, an AVFM fan, and a bit of a meme enthusiast. The somewhat baffling meme at the top of this post? One of his best.

Which is to say, his memes basically suck, even by meme standards.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, these are all overvalued by at least 997 words. You can find them all in the meme section of his blog, though, be warned, he also posts a lot of graphic and disturbing pictures of dead soldiers and circumcised babies and other horrible things. (Note to MRAs: a lot of feminists, like me, are also troubled by and/or opposed to circumcision. Instead of derailing every discussion of female genital mutilation and alienating potential allies, you might try taking your message to the public at large?)

Anyway, let’s get to the memes. Note: A couple are mildly NSFW.

Here we learn that divorced mothers who have custody of the children are really just keeping them in order to enjoy all that sweet-ass child support cash!

14bde31e592dcec47ad806cc3191ff7d

Note: custodial parents who’ve been awarded child support actually receive, on average, about $300 per month. You can almost buy an XboxOne for that! Or, you know, you can try to feed and clothe and care for a child. And pay for child care, and babysitters, and doctor’s visits, and toys, and, you know, shelter. Huh. $300 actually doesn’t sound like that much.

Frankly as a money-making proposition, “stealing me for daddy’s money” seems like kind of a bust.

But let’s just move on to this fine meme, which as far as I can figure it is some sort of attack on underwear  models:

da51a08058eac7b5dae993e5d638a25b

Really? Hath not an underwear model eyes? Hath not an underwear model hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? If you prick an underwear model, do they not bleed? Does blood not run down their smooth, tight abs?

Pretty sure it does. Seriously. Underwear models need to eat, too! Well, maybe not as much as I do, but come on! Stop the hate!

Oh, did I mention that Mr. Roy apparently considers himself a Man Going His Own Way?

 

2014-02-26-macadamea-nuts

Yeah, let’s just move on.

b9b5bfaee50a7db56f34a765c4878a2a

Lol wut

0b9c9fce7b359cd0517a2318916d9fac

Oh, come on!

I’m not even a Christian, but, seriously?

I’m going to post two quotes here. One will be from Jesus. The other from a rather well-known Man Going His Own Way. See if you can tell the difference.

Here’s the first quote. See if you can tell if this is Jesus, or MGTOW elder Christopher in Oregon.

Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Here’s the other quote:

I’m going to be blunt. Have you ever smelled a vagina? Seriously. I mean in it’s natural, unwashed state? Really stuck your nose right down there and taken a deep breath?

Once.

My G-d. The stench could have knocked a buzzard off a shit wagon at fifty paces. To this day I swear there was a cloud of flies buzzing around that portal of doom. Sometimes when riding my Harley-Beasties around the rural roads here in Oregon, I encounter dead skunks. Road kill. We have a lot of them here, and when they’ve been baking in the summer sun, you can smell them a long way off even at sixty miles per hour.

Vaginas tend to be even nastier.

SPOILER ALERT: The first quote was the one from Jesus.

Let’s see what else Mr. Roy has got.

2014-02-14-your-privilege-check-it

Wait, is that one of Mr. Roy’s memes, or did I just accidentally post a pic from my extensive collection of FemDom porn?

By which I mean, yes that was one of his memes and forget what I said about that other stuff.

Ok, one more.

men-matter2

Yaaagh!

Sorry, I didn’t mean to spring that on you. Hopefully you weren’t eating.

But in the unlikely event that you would like to print out your own high-quality color poster of a glowering Paul Elam to hang over your bed, or wherever you hang such pictures, I’ve got some good news for you! Mr. Roy has helpfully provided a downloadable pdf version!

All of the above graphics are by Francis Roy and under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.

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weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

My policy is never bring up someone’s weight unless they bring it up first. I’m not just talking up weight gain. I’m talking about weight loss too. People sometimes lose weight because they’ve been ill. Complimenting them on the weight loss is so rude. I’ve yet to meet a person who felt flattered when they’ve lost weight because of cancer or being too depressed to eat. It also adds to fuel to the fire when an eating disorder is the cause of the weight loss. I know that one from personal experience.

For reasons already covered above it’s shitty to point out a weight gain too.

I just have no idea why people are so concerned about what other weigh. If someone wants to talk about their weight with you, they will bring it up. Unless or until they bring it up, shut your trap!

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

WWTH, yeah, people keet pointing out that I’ve lost weight and telling me I look good, and I’m like (1) I wasn’t trying, I just have a really active job and (2) I looked fine before. I know they mean it in the best possible way, but it’s still unwelcome.

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
7 years ago

Re: People pointing out how much others weigh: I fucking hate that.

I avoid going out to meet relatives and certain acquaintances if I even have the slightest suspicion that I’ve put on weight since the last time we met. I’m unfortunate enough to know way too many people who just love pointing out that I’ve gained some weight. Most of all I hate meeting SO’s mother, who takes these really annoying shots at tapping at my belly and smiling mockingly. Who does that? Do people like this really think I haven’t noticed I’ve gained weight? Do they seriously think being mocked for it is going to inspire me to lose weight? If running 10-16 km a day and eating around 1,000 calories less than what I need in a day isn’t making me lose fat, then I don’t know what to tell you. Not that they’d believe all this, of course, since being overweight is just a sign of being lazy and loving to eat and shitfuckshitfuckargh

(And no, I’m not saying men are generally shamed for being fat. I guess I just have fucking annoying people around me and a tendency to take things far too personally.)

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

So, um, why do we need to point out to people that they have “a weight issue”? People presumably know roughly what their own weight and/or size is, given that they have to, you know, buy clothes for themselves and stuff. Are you under the impression that you are giving them new and potentially revelatory information when you oh so kindly inform them that they are not slim?

I’m just not seeing how being passive-aggressive about it makes it any nicer, or why people are doing it in the first place.

fromafar2013
fromafar2013
7 years ago

“Oh, hey! Did you know that you’re in a wheel chair? Is it because you can’t walk, or are you just THAT LAZY?”

<__>

STFU -_-;

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

“You are short! Like, really short!”

“I had noticed, yeah.”

“Well, have you considered getting taller? I hear they can do marvelous things now by breaking the bones in your legs and putting bits of metal in.”

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

And yeah, the possibility that someone might respond to your well-intentioned “wow you’ve lost so much weight!” with “yeah, it’s the chemo” really ought to make people think twice before they burst out with comments like that.

pallygirl
pallygirl
7 years ago

Okay, I admit to lying and using the “yeah it was cancer” line with someone just because I thought they should STFU.

katz
7 years ago

I have psoriasis and every hairdresser in the universe feels the need to point it out. Even a dental hygienist one time.

Janet
7 years ago

I think everyone is reading something into that post that I didn’t say or, at the very least, didn’t mean to even suggest.

When I said: There is a difference between pointing out to someone that they have a weight issue and “calling” them fat.
I meant: There is a difference between a doctor or a nurse pointing out to a patient that they need to lose weight and someone else calling someone fat as an insult. Calling a person fat is the same thing as insulting them. It doesn’t matter if the person is or is not fat, being fat is being used as a way to define them as a person, instead of other things like how they act. Now, a doctor or a nurse pointing it out can still be just as upsetting as someone else doing it, but they’re not using it to dehumanize a person.

When I said: When it is used as an insult, it’s meant to degrade and objectify the person. It’s meant to tell them that they are worthless because that’s how media portrays overweight/obese people.
I meant: Using fat as an insult is a way that another person is trying to make that person feel worse about themselves. That is due to a societal definition of a person’s beauty and worth as an individual being tied to being thin or in shape.

When I said: I’m not completely sure how it works within the context of a partnered relationship, but calling someone fat is definitely a form of verbal and psychological abuse.
I meant: As a person who has no experience in a relationship with a significant other, I cannot say for certain that this is what that particular reference was going for, but as a person who has endured years of abuse by others because of her weight, I am making an assumption based upon that experience. I am also making this assumption based on reports that have indicated that persons who are obese or overweight are more likely to have suffered some sort of abuse & that negative remarks about their body type have been shown to cause gains in weight.

When I said: Interestingly, there is a correlation of various types of abuse in childhood and a person’s likelihood of one day being an overweight or obese adult.
I meant: There is scientific research that backs up the idea that being abused can lead to a person being obese. There is a link between being molested/raped in pre-pubescence and being overweight. There is a similar link between being molested/raped during or after puberty and anorexia. There are also links between verbal/emotional abuse and weight gain.

When I said: So, it may be considered aggressive to call an adult fat because it could potentially trigger that person to think about issues that they had as a child and abuse that they went through at that time. I base that on my personal experiences of being called fat as an adult triggering memories of childhood abuse that was related to my weight and that actually caused the weight.
I meant: As a person who has been abused and is obese, being called fat reminds me of that abuse. My grandfather molested me when I was a small child. When I had to live with him a few years after that, he insulted me regularly and told me I was unlovable because of the weight. Since the weight was directly related to other abuse that he had schlepped on me, being called fat as an insult reminds me of both abuses. Being called that now can sometimes trigger me to self-injure, overeat, or attempt to starve myself. It reinforces negative beliefs that I have about myself and my worth because of that abuse.

katz
7 years ago

When I said: TL;DR

I meant: Ain’t nobody got time to read all that.

Janet
7 years ago
Reply to  katz

I figured since everyone was jumping on that one line, they hadn’t bothered to read past that first line, especially since the comments were ragging on things I’d already brought up.

katz
7 years ago

I figured since everyone was jumping on that one line, they hadn’t bothered to read past that first line

And your solution was…to write even more?

Janet
7 years ago
Reply to  katz

My solution was to try to clear up the misunderstanding. Clearly I made a mistake trying to say anything at all.

marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

Intent’s relevant, yeah, and it determines whether the person doing it is an asshole or not. How we perceive being fat ultimately determines whether it’s hurtful though. Unless we think fatness has some relevance to someone’s self-worth or character or ability or personality, it just IS. It’s not good or bad. It’s like telling someone they have brown hair or they’re an accountant. Unless those things are perceived as negative…. how can they be hurtful?

Fibinachi
7 years ago

Sorry, I’m confused – why whouldn’t someone try to clear up confusion,Katz? More words is more or less the only thing we have to do that.

Mind, I’d probably try to do it without this bit:

When I said: Interestingly, there is a correlation of various types of abuse in childhood and a person’s likelihood of one day being an overweight or obese adult.
I meant: There is scientific research that backs up the idea that being abused can lead to a person being obese. There is a link between being molested/raped in pre-pubescence and being overweight. There is a similar link between being molested/raped during or after puberty and anorexia. There are also links between verbal/emotional abuse and weight gain.

When I said: So, it may be considered aggressive to call an adult fat because it could potentially trigger that person to think about issues that they had as a child and abuse that they went through at that time. I base that on my personal experiences of being called fat as an adult triggering memories of childhood abuse that was related to my weight and that actually caused the weight.
I meant: As a person who has been abused and is obese, being called fat reminds me of that abuse. My grandfather molested me when I was a small child. When I had to live with him a few years after that, he insulted me regularly and told me I was unlovable because of the weight. Since the weight was directly related to other abuse that he had schlepped on me, being called fat as an insult reminds me of both abuses. Being called that now can sometimes trigger me to self-injure, overeat, or attempt to starve myself. It reinforces negative beliefs that I have about myself and my worth because of that abuse.

Because that’s just… That’s just… Wow. Uhm.

There may belinks, in that some people have a coping mechanism that is over-eating, and that long-term abuse can make such things as a strict fitness regiment sort of difficult to follow (what with the, you know, abuse).

But are you really, really interested in walking down the path where what you’re saying is:

“You’re fat”
“That’s insulting? Thanks.”
“Oh, sorry. What I meant was: Did your parents ever abuse you? Your body mass indicates a series of terrible clusters. Did your uncle molest you? That sucks, I’m so sorry on your behalf”
“WHat? The what? WHo you are? Why would you say that? My god!”
“Some research indicates that there’s a pretty strong emotional link between eating and abuse. Is your partner treating you all right? You’re looking a little chubby there, so I’m thinking he regularly beats you. Do you want me to call the police?”

Because wow. Wooooow.

The reason it’s “aggressive” to call someone “fat” is because… it’s fucking rude. You’re randomly going “look at that fat person!” for no other reason than to… point out their body weight, with the assumption they should feel ashamed.

That’s it.
Don’t do it. It’s silly.

Especially don’t do it if what you mean is the above. Just… don’t.

How exactly does:

When I said: When it is used as an insult, it’s meant to degrade and objectify the person. It’s meant to tell them that they are worthless because that’s how media portrays overweight/obese people.
I meant: Using fat as an insult is a way that another person is trying to make that person feel worse about themselves. That is due to a societal definition of a person’s beauty and worth as an individual being tied to being thin or in shape

mesh with

When I said: Interestingly, there is a correlation of various types of abuse in childhood and a person’s likelihood of one day being an overweight or obese adult.
I meant: There is scientific research that backs up the idea that being abused can lead to a person being obese. There is a link between being molested/raped in pre-pubescence and being overweight. There is a similar link between being molested/raped during or after puberty and anorexia. There are also links between verbal/emotional abuse and weight gain.

When I said: So, it may be considered aggressive to call an adult fat because it could potentially trigger that person to think about issues that they had as a child and abuse that they went through at that time. I base that on my personal experiences of being called fat as an adult triggering memories of childhood abuse that was related to my weight and that actually caused the weight.
I meant: As a person who has been abused and is obese, being called fat reminds me of that abuse. My grandfather molested me when I was a small child. When I had to live with him a few years after that, he insulted me regularly and told me I was unlovable because of the weight. Since the weight was directly related to other abuse that he had schlepped on me, being called fat as an insult reminds me of both abuses. Being called that now can sometimes trigger me to self-injure, overeat, or attempt to starve myself. It reinforces negative beliefs that I have about myself and my worth because of that abuse.

anyhow? Either it’s an insult because you’re trying to degrade them and objectify them based on characteristica Others point out as being Wrong, or you’re playing some elaborate long con psychological shot in the dark attempt at dredging out seriously uncomfortable memories, and “fat” is really just placeholder for “Terrible family memories”.

I mean, what you are trying to say here? That being fat is somehow an indicator of being abused as a child? That’s meaningless. Some googling tells me that the CDC issued a report saying 35.7 % of Americans were obese in 2010.

So… are you saying that they were all molested? THat’s… rude to everyone. That’s kind of terrible. Don’t do that, maybe. Uhm.

Yikes.

It just doesn’t fit the rest of the conversation at all. You might want to really rethink what you’re trying to say here.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

In general I’d suggest being really careful of your wording if you’re going to bring up links between child abuse and issues in adulthood that may be linked to said abuse. The links are there, in fact child abuse correlates with all kinds of negative outcomes in adulthood, but a. if you’re not really careful how you word that you end up sounding like you’re victim blaming and b. if you bring that up in this context you’re essentially saying that being fat is a negative outcome, which doesn’t really fit well with the rest of your argument.

(B. is directed specifically at Janet.)

katz
7 years ago

Sorry, I’m confused – why whouldn’t someone try to clear up confusion,Katz? More words is more or less the only thing we have to do that.

She was complaining that nobody read past the first line of her other post, so I thought it was funny that she then expected people to read an even longer post in its entirety. (You are the master of reading and dissecting long posts. I am somewhat in awe.)

Janet
7 years ago
Reply to  Fibinachi

I have thought about what I said quite extensively before I responded about weight the first time. I thought about even more before I responded the second time.

The first response was to two comments that had suggested that being called fat was not a form of abuse and was not hurtful. I was trying to show that it is not only a form of abuse, but that it can be harmful toward another person. I tried with my first comment, which is the “What I Said” stuff to get this across without delving into the things brought up in the second post. When I noticed that people were misinterpreting that first line, I thought that either they were misinterpreting the whole post or they weren’t reading it at all, so I decided that maybe I should try to explain my point more thoroughly. Obviously, I was mistaken.

I never said or suggested that they were all molested, just that the rate is higher among the obese, so the possibility that calling someone fat or giving them a hard time could compound other issues that the person has.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

IMO, “maybe she’s fat because she was abused” is just like “maybe he’s fat because he can’t exercise” or “maybe ze has a thyroid problem”: when you try to argue that “maybe there’s a good reason they’re fat”, you’re implying there’s are bad reasons to be fat, and ultimately that’s not helpful.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

OK, this conversation is starting to seem really pointless and frustrating. Can we not please agree that a. being fat is not inherently a bad thing but b. that doesn’t mean that if someone says “lol you’re fat” in a way that’s meant to hurt and/or they’re saying it with the belief that being fat is inherently bad then they’re not being abusive?

Janet
7 years ago
Reply to  emilygoddess

You know what? Just forget that I said anything at all. I’ll try to remember not to comment from now on. And, yeah, I’m intentionally being passive aggressive with that because, at this point, I feel like shit from all of this.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Also, what emilygoddess said. In this specific context introducing the argument about abuse ends up undercutting the argument that being fat isn’t inherently a bad thing, even if that wasn’t the intent.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

It is true that people with eating disorders frequently experienced abuse. But, and it’s a big but, you can’t assume that just because someone is fat or skinny they must have BED or anorexia. Sometimes people are fat or skinny because that’s how their body is. It’s also not your business why someone is fat or skinny anyway.

Also, people suffering eating disorders aren’t always outside of what people perceive as a “normal” weight. I never got super skinny when I had an eating disorder. Nobody would ever suspect anything from looking at me.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

(Sigh)

Look, Janet, I get that you’re feeling ganged up on right now, but you realize that you’re not the only person for whom this issue is personal, right? Some of the people who you’re arguing with are fat, and some of them were abused as children. Your feelings are not the only ones that are a bit tender when this topic is being discussed, and being intentionally passive-aggressive isn’t going to improve an already tense situation.

(My mom’s life hit pretty much every single point that’s been brought up in this conversation – was sexually abused as a child, got fat as an adult, had people speculate in front of her about why that was the case all the time, got complimented for losing weight during chemo. As in literally “you’ve lost so much weight!”, “yes, because I just had one of my breasts removed and I’m undergoing chemo”, “oh, well hey, at least you’re looking nice and slim now”. So I’m pretty much just sitting here going, OK, why can people not just agree to not pester other people about their weight? Would that not be the easiest and least harmful way forward here?)

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

@ wwth

Yep to that point too. One of my besties had severe bulimia in high school. Her weight never dipped below average, and sometimes was above average. Doesn’t mean she wasn’t bulimic, but have fun trying to explain that to the average person.

My weight never got down into the zone where people realized just by looking at me that something was wrong even when I was eating (ALL THE TRIGGER WARNINGS) less than 800 calories a day. Meanwhile, a good friend was pestered about being “anorexic” all the time even though she ate like a horse. Turns out she’s just naturally really thin, just like the rest of her family. Funny how that works.

marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

As a medical person and a fatty and someone whose quality of life was worse when they were fatter and a kind human being, I’ve got an investment in just about every area of the fat issue.

Yes, there are an unfortunate lot of people promoting lies about obesity in order to portray obesity as neutral or positive, healthwise. This is not OK. There are also lots of people promoting the notion being overweight is way worse in all circumstances than it usually is, healthwise. That’s not OK either. It just excuses abusing fatties.

I’m as valuable a person as anyone else, regardless of my weight. It doesn’t impede the extent to which I contribute to society. Yes, because I’m fat I’m more likely to “burden the system” via healthcare costs. I’ll probably die younger than fitter individuals. Those are not nice things. I am nice though and I contribute enormously so the notion I’m a “taker” because I’m fat isn’t reasonable. The thing is my vice, the thing I do that’s likely to inconvenience others, is visible so I get harangued for it. Just because someone’s habit isn’t visible doesn’t mean they aren’t contributing to a burden on society.

Historically, my obesity did impede my ability to contribute to the world. I would qualify myself as having contributed less to the world than I was taking at that point in time. Does that mean ALL fatties take more than they give? No.

Perhaps most importantly, was being treated like shit or like a victim for being as obese as I was at all conducive to weight loss and improved fitness? Fuck no. Because my weight was interfering with my life and I wanted to do something about it, I needed a reality check, for sure. I wasn’t delusional but my knowledge of caloric density and needs was naught. Shaming myself and being reminded of how worthless I was in the eyes of the world and my parents or being coddled because this was OBVIOUSLY the result of terrible abuse and I had no control over it had the opposite effect though. It discouraged me. I needed honesty but I needed to be treated like a person with a mind.

Fat people know they’re fat. We don’t need to inform them. Treating them like they’re stupid or worthless or victims does not benefit them or the world. Making accurate information and resources available and leaving them the fuck alone is far more likely to.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Fat people know they’re fat. We don’t need to inform them.

This pretty much sums it up, really. Unless you think that fat people have somehow failed to notice that they’re fat, there’s really no need to point their fatness out to them. You can safely assume that they have probably noticed themselves already.

Janet
7 years ago
Reply to  cassandrakitty

@cassandrakitty I’m aware that other people have issues with abuse and with their weight, but what I don’t get it what good could possibly come of mocking me or being rude because of what was said. My first comment wasn’t meant to be rude or dismissive, but with everyone focusing on that first line, it seems like that everyone felt that it was. I tried to clear up confusion so that maybe I would stop receiving notifications of just how badly I misspoke. But no matter what I say, it just seems to get worse. And I don’t know what to say or do to make it stop. It’s just making things really, really hard for me right now because I don’t know how to make it better and make this whole mockery/ganging up thing stop. And I know that by saying that that I’m opening myself up to even more criticism, but it’s the truth because it’s bringing up a lot of really bad stuff for me.

marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

To me, it really goes to the heart of the issue. Every time my dad tells me I’m fat, all it tells me is a) he thinks I’m stupid and b) it’s something I should be ashamed of. Not helpful. It’s discouraging.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Snarky is kind of the default on this site, honestly. I do think that at this point in this particular conversation we could probably agree to stop snarking on Janet specifically, though, since it seems as if she was just communicating poorly rather than being a jerk. That would also mean Janet acknowledging that some of her comments weren’t very well worded and that people have every right to react negatively to comments that they feel like are piling more crap on the crap they’re already dealing with.

Everyone is of course free to ignore this comment – I’m not the boss of you and so on.

contrapangloss
7 years ago

Janet, don’t run away forever! Run away from this issue, yes, but forever, no.

I get your point about how mentioning someone’s weight can do them more damage than expected, due to past traumas. However, I did feel really squeamish about your wording, because it did give off the vibe that if someone doesn’t have a ‘legitimate’ (my word, not yours) reason to be fat, like abuse, thyroid, whatever problems, then their fat isn’t justified.

In other words, it seemed like you were well meaning, but fell into the ‘being fat is bad, because they’re either lazy or abused’ vibe.

I know that isn’t what you meant, and you were probably just cautioning because you’ve seen that specific example of harm.

What the folks here are on about is trying to get rid of the ‘thinking you have any right to assume someone else’s body is bad, ergo they must be bad/have trauma/be ill’ thought train that the culture seem obsessed with.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

@ marinerachel

Parents in particular should really STFU about their children’s weight, imo. It’s just way too personal and hurtful when appearance-related criticism is directed from a parent towards a child.

Janet
7 years ago
Reply to  cassandrakitty

I am sorry. I didn’t mean to upset anyone at all.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

This issue is so sensitive that it seems to be close to impossible to talk about it without someone being hurt, honestly. Which sucks for everyone involved.

(And which is another reason why bringing up someone’s weight in an attempt to “help” them is really not such a great idea, no matter how good your intentions might be.)

marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

I get that, Janet. It’s rarely ill-intentioned, the fat=poor, unfortunate soul trope. It’s actually usually well-meaning. People just don’t realise how wrong it is and what the implications of it are. That’s OK. Stepping on toes is part of learning.

I still do it alllllllll the time. I used to think I was helping rape victims by asking them “Do you know what things you could have done to reduce your risk of this happening to you (NOT THAT IT’S YOUR FAULT AT ALL SO YOU CAN’T ACCUSE ME OF VICTIM BLAMING)?” Seriously. And I’m a pretty smart cookie.

LBT (with writeathon poll!)

Janet, I’ve been staying quiet through this conversation, since I’m a recovering ED person and an abuse survivor and mostly just felt tongue-tied, but I want you to know that I think you just miscommunicated, and I’m not angry at you. I think this is an extremely sensitive topic for a lot of people, and in the cage-fight atmosphere of Mammoth, it set folks off. I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but I think you’re okay, just that text is limited and this shit be complicated.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Having a bunch of angry people go “you’re not helping, so just stop it” seems to be an inevitable part of the “hey, this response really isn’t helping, so maybe I shouldn’t respond that way any more” learning process in regards to multiple issues, unfortunately.

GrumpyOldMan
GrumpyOldMan
7 years ago

Janet, you didn’t do anything wrong. You tried to explain some reasons that it might not be a good idea to refer to someone’s weight that might be personal to you and not obvious to others. People should just accept what you said as your 2 cents on the subject and move on. Thanks for offering your perspective.

Fibinachi
7 years ago

Yeah, what LBT said. And Cassandakitty.

@Janet: That’s why I tried for that “maybe rethink what you’re saying” route. It’s sort of a sensitive issue, and I just thought the phrasing was a little poor, even in your clarified version. Not that you’re some kind of evil meanie bastard person, because I don’t know you and I very much doubt you are! You’re probably super nice and lovely.

@katz

(You are the master of reading and dissecting long posts. I am somewhat in awe.)

Well the trick is—ohmygodhelpmeescapethishellishnightmare.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

With the people who wade in and try to dissect long posts full of wrongness I sometimes feel like I should offer them oranges at halftime.

Fibinachi
7 years ago

Obviously, we’d have to offer Pecunium mangoes.

Janet
7 years ago
Reply to  Fibinachi

Why mangoes?

contrapangloss
7 years ago

I’m still thinking, it might not be a good thing.

I specifically said ‘body is bad’ instead of ‘fat’, because really skinny folks can have the same problem.

A is so thin, they must be B.

Heck, I’m not even skinny, a bit pudgy even, but I did drop 20 pounds in a semester, once, just by not eating cafeteria food, cooking my own tasty food, and being more active; I had so many random acquaintances asking if I was okay. It was sweet of them to worry, but really annoying after the first few diet interrogations.

Now that I’m actually planning on loosing weight/gaining muscle for fire-1 in the spring, I’m actually dreading when the changes start being noticeable, again.

Yeah, comments on weight are generally really unhelpful.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
7 years ago

Pecunium has an inexplicable hatred of mangoes.

(Which, well, fair enough, I won’t eat durian no matter how many times my MIL tries to talk me into it.)

contrapangloss
7 years ago

I should stop thinking about this, and get a move on.

Janet, hit post before I saw your last comment. Appology accepted, on my part.

Everyone screws up, eventually.

Feel free to call me out on it when it’s my turn to accidentally say something well-intentioned but asinine!

Woody
Woody
7 years ago

“Well, Woody’s probably right that Pauly can’t hold down a job. He’d get fired in no time.”

Paul attended college and found work as a very successful psychiatrist until he decided to devote himself to AVfM, likely at a significant pay cut. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

pecunium
7 years ago

Janet: When I said: There is a difference between pointing out to someone that they have a weight issue and “calling” them fat.
I meant: There is a difference between a doctor or a nurse pointing out to a patient that they need to lose weight and someone else calling someone fat as an insult.

Then maybe you should have said that. Because what bit you in the ass is that people didn’t choose to “read something into that post”. They read the comment as written.

If you meant it’s one person for a medical professional; in their professional capacity to make an observation to their patient about the health risks they may be experiencing because of their present weight you completely failed to make it plain.

When we read what you wrote, we read what you wrote.

My solution was to try to clear up the misunderstanding.

I’d say you failed at that. We didn’t misunderstand you. We may not have understood you as well as we do now, but we understood what you wrote just fine (and really, it wasn’t that long: we read, and write, much longer things that that. We have pretty good attention to detail; it’s just that the rest of what you wrote wasn’t helping your cause, and didn’t change the stupid, and offensive in the part being called out).

@cassandrakitty I’m aware that other people have issues with abuse and with their weight, but what I don’t get it what good could possibly come of mocking me or being rude because of what was said.

I can think of a lot of reasons, some of them speculative. I’m not mocking (insomuch as some of my tone is snarky) to be mean, but because you are asking us to give you unbelievable credit for both good intentions, and perfect understanding. You told us, after you got called out, that there was a wealth of unstated modifiers and qualifications to what was, on its face, a bald statement. A statement which, on its face was both wrong, and hurtful in effect.

But we are supposed to just forget that you were too clumsy (or careless) to give us all the other data. You expected us to divine that it was all there; and that you are a good person, who would never dream of being intentionally hurtful.

If you want to make it stop, I’d suggest 1: making an actual apology; rather than tell us all how mean we were to read what you wrote, and react to it, and 2: stop telling the people you offended how horrible it is for them to tell you they were offended; and why.

I am willing to accept that you meant no harm, but I’m not going to say it wasn’t your fault.

pecunium
7 years ago

Pecunium has an inexplicable hatred of mangoes.

It’s not inexplicable. I lost the genetic lottery, and (in the way some people can’t abide cilantro, or find coffee to be appalling), the smell of mangoes is revolting. There’s nothing I can do about it.

I find them to smell of ebggvat syrfu qevmmyrq jvgu xrebfrar

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
7 years ago

Paul attended college and found work as a very successful psychiatrist until he decided to devote himself to AVfM

JFC.

1) We know
1.5) That’s terrifying
2) “once held a job” =/= “can now hold a job”
3) Prove “successful”. Hell, define it.