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no trolls allowed open thread

Do I need to crack down harder on trolls? A no-troll, no-MRA discussion thread

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This blog has been getting a lot more traffic lately. The downside is that we’ve had a lot more trolls here lately as well.

Because of this, and because of a shitty situation in one of the comment threads earlier tonight involving an abusive troll who I wish I had banned sooner, I want to open up a discussion to everyone here (that is, everyone here who is not a troll or an MRA).

The question is: Do I need to crack down harder on trolls?

Generally my approach has been to let trolls post unless and until they’re abusive. I know a lot of people here like engaging with trolls and taking them down.

The problem, of course, is that these trolls can quickly become abusive. And this can trigger people.

Should I be quicker to ban people — banning trolls at the first sign that they might become abusive rather than giving them the benefit of the doubt (which, unfortunately a lot of them don’t deserve)? Should I be stricter about who I let post in the first place?

There are actually a lot of people I don’t let post here at all; if their first comment is too aggressive or hostile or (obviously) contains a slur I don’t let their comments through. I’m especially strict when it comes to people posting in threads about women who’ve been harassed.

But I could be stricter, and I could ban more quickly if that’s what you think I should do.

Frankly, I gave up a long time ago on the idea that it’s possible to have any kind of “open debate” with these people. Too many of them are abusive assholes for that to work.

So my priority here is the regular feminist and feminist-friendly commenters on this blog, and coming up with a comment policy and procedures that work better for you all. There are people who enjoy and in many cases feel empowered by being able to confront the trolls here. But I don’t want, and I don’t think  any of us want, more situations like the one that happened tonight.

To be honest, I do think I need to crack down harder. I just want to hear what you all think on the issue, and to hear your suggestions as to how to do this most effectively.

The other aspect of this: I think I need to put up more no troll, no MRA open threads. And so I will be doing that.

Thoughts?

(I may not be able to get back to this thread for a little while, but I’ll definitely be back later in the evening.)

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A Wolverine
A Wolverine
10 years ago

couldnt the challenge for all trolls just be “define [incredibly basic term used by feminists]”?

as an aside, is it more accurate to call them Pseudo-intellectuals or Anti-Intellectuals? (is there a term that encapsulates both?)
on one hand they say they love STEM, but seem to be unable to understand basic statistics and parrot unverifiable Evopsych bullshit constantly.

On the other hand they’ll dump on actual experts by claiming theres some sort of feminist-illuminati controlling all higher education

mildlymagnificent
10 years ago

And of course, catching them early means more commenters go into moderation much sooner so David / whoever can capture that shit before it hits the discussion fan and fouls all of us.

Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

Dratman — because it works WHEN DAVID IS AROUND and aware of the problem. When he’s petting a cat, or in bed, or other such activities that prevent cat petting, I mean being here, then the trolls get away with going from “yuck, you suck, go away” to flat out rapey. The problem is that if David is asleep, or petting a cat, we shouldn’t have trolls being rape supporters until he gets back.

When he’s around and aware of the problem, he’s usually awesome about fixing it. But he can’t be here all the time, nor can he always be aware of every comment.

leftwingfox
10 years ago

I considered suggesting a quick-report button in the comments, but I couldn’t figure out a way to design it that couldn’t be abused by those MRAs who believe harassment is activism, I do think more aggressive moderation is a good compromise between the engagement which this place thrives on, and the need to weed out the more aggressive assholes. Good idea on promoting the regular troll-fighters to mods who can help out.

kittehserf
10 years ago

Good idea on promoting the regular troll-fighters to mods who can help out.

There should be a snazzy uniform for this.

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

In velvet. With lace. 🙂 And nice hats.

kittehserf
10 years ago

Can the hats have feathers? I’m seeing cavalier suits (funny that).

Although these are cool:

http://blogs.artinfo.com/artintheair/2013/08/13/here-are-the-six-tsarist-style-cat-portraits-the-state-hermitage-museum-commissioned/

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

I think that because it’s your uniform, you guys get to choose the hat style(s). 🙂

kittehserf
10 years ago

Well, it’s up to David who’s doing the modding, of course. 🙂

thewatchingdog
thewatchingdog
10 years ago

David and the Mods before there whirlwind club tour circa 1966
http://31.media.tumblr.com/efe80b72d6bb41b0a7aaf2a3825b4ad1/tumblr_mmn9vlvDEj1qckm0wo1_1280.jpg

Kootiepatra
10 years ago

@Emcube:

Mikey made a post on his blog whining about being banned from here. He’s basically saying he didn’t do anything wrong and that the feminists here are just looking for ways to be offended. 

That is hilari-sad. I mean, even if we shrugged off every offensive thing he said, you’d think he’d at least grok why repeated cycles of “Dude, stop linking your blog” –> *posts multiple links to said blog* would lead to being shown the door.

kittehserf
10 years ago

OMG I know that shirt Bowie’s wearing! I used a different photo of it in a pic I made years ago. 🙂

lensman
10 years ago

@Ally S

I just read the thread linked. I’m terribly sorry.

I feel ashamed because I did try the PUA bullshit back when the PUA community was just comprised of Ross Jeffries and the seduction101 website at some point in my life. It didn’t quite work that well for me because I didn’t feel comfortable with being an arrogant self-delusional asshole. Again, I am sorry.

@emilygoddess

There are at least some webpages that mention a “Hellenic Period” which (according to them) is the same as the Classical Period. Personally, I never heard the Classical Period being refered to as something else, but then again I didn’t have access to foreign history books when I was 12.

@LBT

The main difference between the statues of the Classical Period and the Hellenistic Period, was that the statues of the Hellenistic period were made in a way that gave the impression they were staring back at the people who watched them.

At least, that’s what I remember from my visit to the local museum long ago.

@David

You know, I believe a term is needed for this.

“Malignant Search Engine Optimization” is the most accurate way to describe it but it’s not quite catchy.

May I suggest the word “soxxed” (akin to Doxxed)?

Doug
Doug
10 years ago

I run a different type of blog with a lot less traffic – but in general, it takes a lot to get banned from my site because I’m very worried about the onset of groupthink. I’m reminded of the “but all my friends voted for McGovern” phenomenon where you get blindsided by the landslide election of Nixon because you’ve been in a bubble.

So, whatever the ban policy, I’d give due regard for dissenting opinions and the ability to argue them respectfully but vigorously even where they are distinctly minority opinions in the group.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
10 years ago

Doug, do you even go here? Or did you read the thread? We enjoy letting ~dissenters~ post here and chewing them up, and the consensus has been to continue with this policy. The issue at hand is what to do when they become abusive and David’s not around.

Alex
10 years ago

Some people in this thread need to lurk more (looking at you, Doug).

I think troll challenges are an awesome idea. I recall one troll who was only allowed to post three comments a day. I can’t remember what he was called, but that was funny. He was so bitter about it. Also having a few people as mods would be good, too. And yeah, I agree that trolls should go on moderation the second they something rapey. Voting on trigger content sounds good in theory, but that has the potential to be abused by trolls. I dunno. It’s rare I get triggered by trolls, but when it happens it’s not pleasant. I love to see trolls get chewed up here, and several people have made excellent suggestions of how to crack down harder while still being able to engage with them. I’m looking forward to seeing what what the changes will be. 🙂

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
10 years ago

I recall one troll who was only allowed to post three comments a day. I can’t remember what he was called, but that was funny. He was so bitter about it.

I think that was Some Guy Bored With Your Schtick. It was hilarious how upset it made him.

Alex
10 years ago

I think you might be right. lol He sometimes announced when it was his last comment for the day, as if we cared. That just made it more funny.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

We need that rule for Anand if he ever comes back. He’s awfully tedious.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
10 years ago

I think Anand was banned. IIRC he was running his mouth on one of the threads about the shooting and David’s patience wore out.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

I thought he was just put on moderation but I hope you’re right and he is banned.

Doug
Doug
10 years ago

I read the entire thread, and yet I stand by my comment. Thank you, though ,for the suggestion that I lurk more.

It’s really going to depend on where you draw the line between acceptable dissent on the one hand and abuse on the other. The more you err on the side of excluding abuse, the more danger there will be of creating a group think bubble. The more you err on the side of tolerating abuse, the more likely people will be abused. Participants in a forum just need to be aware of the trade offs and calibrate moderation accordingly.

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

Doug: the new troll in this thread. Apparently can’t tell the difference between dissent and abuse and tells us we’re the issue.

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

Have emailed David.

Doug
Doug
10 years ago

If you think I’ve crossed a line, I don’t have a strong interest in the subject, so I’ll defer to the group and let it go.