This blog has been getting a lot more traffic lately. The downside is that we’ve had a lot more trolls here lately as well.
Because of this, and because of a shitty situation in one of the comment threads earlier tonight involving an abusive troll who I wish I had banned sooner, I want to open up a discussion to everyone here (that is, everyone here who is not a troll or an MRA).
The question is: Do I need to crack down harder on trolls?
Generally my approach has been to let trolls post unless and until they’re abusive. I know a lot of people here like engaging with trolls and taking them down.
The problem, of course, is that these trolls can quickly become abusive. And this can trigger people.
Should I be quicker to ban people — banning trolls at the first sign that they might become abusive rather than giving them the benefit of the doubt (which, unfortunately a lot of them don’t deserve)? Should I be stricter about who I let post in the first place?
There are actually a lot of people I don’t let post here at all; if their first comment is too aggressive or hostile or (obviously) contains a slur I don’t let their comments through. I’m especially strict when it comes to people posting in threads about women who’ve been harassed.
But I could be stricter, and I could ban more quickly if that’s what you think I should do.
Frankly, I gave up a long time ago on the idea that it’s possible to have any kind of “open debate” with these people. Too many of them are abusive assholes for that to work.
So my priority here is the regular feminist and feminist-friendly commenters on this blog, and coming up with a comment policy and procedures that work better for you all. There are people who enjoy and in many cases feel empowered by being able to confront the trolls here. But I don’t want, and I don’t think any of us want, more situations like the one that happened tonight.
To be honest, I do think I need to crack down harder. I just want to hear what you all think on the issue, and to hear your suggestions as to how to do this most effectively.
The other aspect of this: I think I need to put up more no troll, no MRA open threads. And so I will be doing that.
Thoughts?
(I may not be able to get back to this thread for a little while, but I’ll definitely be back later in the evening.)
One benefit of having a handful of mods would be the round-the-clock coverage. I notice you’ve got quite a few Aussies here, David (hey fellow Antipodeans!). If one or two Aussies, one or two Europeans and one or two Americans were mods, hopefully we could circumvent the whole thing where trolls wait for the “slow period” of moderation before bringing their buddies in to wreak havoc.
Of course I’m guessing you’ve already thought about this and are all over it. Just mentioning something I’ve seen work well in the past from other comment sections. 🙂
Aphrodite was associated with Isis, too: would one of those statues be at all suitable?
RE: Kittehs
He asks if the Venus is wearing clothes and actually enthroned. He might be willing to make an exception.
::waves from Melbourne at strivingally::
LBT, gotcha.
Maddening – I just saw a clothed, seated Aphrodite on sale on ebay – but it’s an original and they’re asking nearly four grand!
Ohhhhh, shit. Yeah, that’s out of his price range. He’s frustrated enough that it looks like he might actually commission a sculptor or something.
LBT: Is there a college with an art school nearby? He could probably get a student in sculpture to it for a commission/portfolio piece.
+1 to the moderator idea. Thanks a lot to the volunteers.
Though being a cis-male I am not likely to be targeted for a harassment campaign or abuse. I am reminded of this video where Mike Rugnetta offer a defense of a positive effect of trolls but changes his mind in the making of the video.
The Experience of Being Trolled | Idea Channel | …: http://youtu.be/eHSSNyIlAps
I think the community should definitely shut down abuse. (Of course). I tend to be more tolerant of tediousness but then I am more willing to let people be dumb. I do think the lurkers and not-quite-MRAs benefit from seeing the arguments shot down though. A discussion on a newspaper article gets brigaded into the ground.
Tldr I am down with moderation but I am of a privileged group. Shutting down trolls is good for the silent audience.
David — ok, sorry I mistaken thought there was a step you could be taking and weren’t, my mistake! If it would be of any help for that, I can dig up the response data from the survey, though I don’t know if knowing where you get lots of comments from would help any. I mean. One survey came from Åland Island, which I had never heard of before, but given recent conversation, I think it was a regular (was it Arctic Ape who made a comment about the island?)
And THANK YOU on the no threaded comments. They’re what finally made me give up on Feministe.
LBT — I swore to all the gods I’d never work with the stuff again, but does it have to be stone or similar? Because I could try my hand at doing it in plasticine, but the stuff is a royal pain to work with and does…droop? over time. I’ve never sculptured a person before though. Drawn sure, painted, yep, but sculpture isn’t my usual medium. For Aphrodite I could give it a shot though.
And I’m glad my “backside magic” amused you all!
Hello
I’ve been reading this blog for years (I commented once under pipkin ages ago) and I also love reading the comments so i’m pretty familiar with you all. It really does feel like a little
community and I think having regular/longtime commenter’s as moderator’s is a great idea,it will keep the trolls on their toes and if they decide to turn nasty it can be nipped in the bud.(I think the way David runs this blog is excellent but he cant always be at his pc)
I have been reading the site for while and tend not to post so take this with the grain of salt it deserves but I find this concept brilliant – but I WOULD love to see a return to some of those hilarious moderation filters David had for a while.
RE: Argenti
If it droops over time, definitely not, since this would be something intended specifically for religious devotion and worship. I think my roommate has a sculptor in mind, he was just really hoping for a better deal, I guess.
RE: acrannymint
I did love that stupid kitten filter. I would’ve LOVED to see one for Mike Buchanan where he could only post without linking or mentioning his damn blogs. (Or perhaps him linking to something feminist instead.)
Just to continue from my previous comment:
I’m aware that if some of the regulars did become moderator’s they may be triggered by the the nasties so while I still think its a good idea, (along with other suggestions that have been made) I think decisions about what to try and do should be left to David and the regular/longtime commenter’s.
I think you do splendidly. I tend to get bored early on by trolls so I would boot them sooner rather than later. One of the things you could do is select white font color for troll posts so that only highlighting them will reveal the text. Works a treat.
The troll requirements to post were fabulous!
Actually, how about a Woody challenge? Woody must say something positive about a specific, named feminist for every time he praises Paul Elam.
thebewilderness — that doesn’t work in iOS and means that TV tropes makes me cranky.
LBT — fair enough!
Or, a random word removal is made in each sentence (or in each set of 10 words, as these idiots seem to like run-on sentences). Then we can play: guess the word.
an internet is awarded to each person who makes me spit out my coffee laughing.
Hellenistic or Hellenic? The former is a specific period in Greek history, while the latter is the adjective for “Greek”. Most Hellenic Pagans are into the Classical period, which is earlier than Hellenistic, although there are people drawing from the Hellenistic period as well.
I’m…kinda Hellenic Pagan? I was a Hellenic Recon for a while, and I still have shrines to Athene and Hestia. I’ll see if I can dig up the sites where I used to drool over statuary.
HDU, that’s obviously a Nyan Cat costume!
RE: cassandrakitty
Woody must say something positive about a specific, named feminist for every time he praises Paul Elam.
I totally approve of this, since Woody is about as interesting and insightful as the plank for which he is named.
RE: emilygoddess
Hellenistic or Hellenic?
Boom! You have just hit the total limits of my knowledge on paganism! And yeah, I probably meant HELLENIC. But I’m seriously soooo not savvy on this; my knowledge on the Hellenistic period is completely limited to my Attack of the Unoppresed Mediterrannean Jews story.
I think it’s important for these jerks to feel what it’s like to have a bunch of people gang up on them and attempt to destroy their faith in what they believe in, and make them feel like they don’t belong. I think psychologically it’s very important for those people to be put in that position, as they more-than-likely are rarely in situations where they are challenged openly by a group of people, they are used to being in a position where people are either too scared to challenge them, or where they have unending support for their bigotry and hatred.
However, I have been on so many blogs where it is the feminist voice that is blocked, never the hate filled rants of MRAs, therefore they can also experience what it’s like to be in an environment where it is THEY who are blocked for ‘not belonging’ in the space. Where it is THEY who are told to shut up and listen, rather than dictate (something they most certainly are not used to hearing or experiencing).
I would suggest that we accept their absurdity until it becomes abusive and that you should openly step in and post your response to the person before blocking them. You could give them a chance to calm down and be less abusive, but if they come back with yet another abusive rant you should block him/her, but do it publicly so everyone can see that you gave them a chance, and they just couldn’t control themselves, so now they’re blocked and can rant elsewhere. That way it shows that you are not curbing their voice, simply telling them that if they can’t act like a grown up and communicate without foaming at the mouth, then they are not welcome to argue with grown ups.
The most important thing is that these people are shown for what they really are; abusive bigots and bullies, and that we are shown for what we are, a group of intelligent, progressive individuals with a mission; to make the world a better place for everyone.
Hope this helps 🙂
It sounds like you’re already doing a good job. If you are moderating now, why do you need to change anything?
BTW, can somebody please link me to the article that brought all this about?
Cheers!
dratman – the issues have come up and been discussed by David and the regulars. Have you read the thread?
The reason I think it’s important to tend towards banning is that very often, abusive trolls will be caught after they have already been abusive towards someone. Nearly every troll who has been abusive towards me was banned only after they were abusive. David and the mods, I think, should focus on trying to find early signs of abusive behavior, as I stated earlier. It’s like how cassandrakitty suggested that once a troll says something rapey, they are automatically far more likely to be abusive assholes towards the folks here.
Leisha Young, the troll who started this (or rather, the latest one) starts his rape apologia around here.
Seconding Ally – and, to repeat earlier comments, regulars need to be quicker to report shit. David and the Mods (yes that is my new band name) won’t, can’t, catch everything.