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a voice for men MRA

Is A Voice for Men's conference kaput? Doubletree says "they are not booked with us." [UPDATE: Elam says they have another venue.]

carwheels

Woah! Just wanted to pass along this news from the Motor City Muckraker:

A controversial conference for a men’s rights group in Detroit appears to be in jeopardy after a fallout with downtown’s Hilton DoubleTree, which planned to host the event from June 26-28.

The inaugural conference at the DoubleTree has been canceled for unknown reasons, and organizers of the first International Conference on Men’s Issues haven’t said yet whether it will be moved to another hotel and conference center.

“At this time, they are not booked with us,” Larry Brown, manager of the DoubleTree, said this morning. He declined to elaborate on the cancelation.

There’s nothing on A Voice for Men about this latest development, though Esmay hinted during his Fox News appearance that they were possibly going to reconsider the Doubletree. But as of right now, AVFM is still selling tickets, as if the Doubletree convention is still a going concern.

Are they going to try to book the convention elsewhere? Or are they going to take the $29,000 they raised for “security” and, I dunno, send Esmay to a better stylist?

One other, ah, interesting detail in the Motor City Muckraker story:

When asked Tuesday whether the event would be moved, an organizer responded: “The DoubleTree GM (general manager) actually said that he has ‘feminist phobia’ and sort of laughed but in a nervous way. So its being discussed.”

It’s questionable whether this conversation ever occurred because the general manager is a woman.

Yeah. Seems like a lot of things about this convention have been pretty questionable from the start.

UPDATE: Well, one thing’s a bit clearer now, though. I called the Detroit Police and they confirmed that the Doubletree did indeed report to them that it had received threats. Who sent them, we still don’t know, but I think we can all agree that whether the threats came from some misguided feminist or “progressive” or from an MRA trying to stir shit and make feminists look bad, whoever made the threatening calls is a shithead who deserves to face the legal consequences for what they did.

UPDATE 2: According to the Detroit News, Elam says they’ve got another venue:

“We have scheduled another venue and will make an announcement on the site this evening,” group founder Paul Elam said in an email Wednesday.

So far no announcement on AVFM; I’ll post about it when there is one.

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hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

You still haven’t found the “kill all men” here. Do that or GTFO.

paul
7 years ago

Considering the amount of namecalling I’ve been on the recieving end of after only a handful of posts, I don’t really think I need to go looking for the obvious hate that exists here hell. You guys are well aware of your own levels of hate. I shouldn’t need to point them out to you.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

Paul,

You said “everything I stand for.”

I also think you should locate evidence of our supposed misandry or piss off.

-5/10

Ally S
7 years ago

However I won’t base myself to the common denominator here and respond with insults as seems to be the standard practice here 🙂

Fortunately it turns out that you actually deserve the insults.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

Considering the amount of namecalling I’ve been on the recieving end of after only a handful of posts, I don’t really think I need to go looking for the obvious hate that exists here hell. You guys are well aware of your own levels of hate.

You made hostile comments from the start. We were just responding in kind.

We aren’t mocking you and insulting you because you’re a man. Lots of men comment here and do not get called names. We’re mocking and insulting you because you’re an asshole and a troll. Our responses to you are not evidence of misandry.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

paul, so far no one here has called you a gendered slur, or made rape or death threats against you, or suggested that you brought violence upon yourself, or suggested that you secretely liked being assaulted, or posted your personal information like your address or telephone number, or likened you to a non-human animal. If I’m recalling correctly, people have called you stupid and an asshole, but no one has even suggested that your stupidity or assholery was the result of your gender.

So, the worst you’ve got here? “Asshole” and “stupid.” And you’re seriously likening this to the kind of shit that AVFM and MRA’s pull?

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Considering the amount of namecalling I’ve been on the recieving end of after only a handful of posts, I don’t really think I need to go looking for the obvious hate that exists here hell. You guys are well aware of your own levels of hate. I shouldn’t need to point them out to you.

So you can’t find it and you’re a liar? Of course.

Weasel.

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Oh, no! Paul got called names after being an obvious troll! Someone bring the fainting couch and smelling salts STAT!

Shaenon
7 years ago

Hey Mike, how do you define “radfem”?

If I remember correctly, the Lego company, all female scientists, people who think female scientists exist, and mothers with “hatchet faces.”

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

Paul,
I don’t hate you. I think you’re a puffed-up, ignorant, sexist, lying ass. I think it’s funny how wrong and dense you are. I think it’s hilarious that you came to a site expressly for mocking misogynists, tried to score some points for Team Misogyny by pretending to be “neutral observer” and were shocked, shocked when we pointed at you and laughed.

I don’t hate a dog when it scratches it’s butt on the rug in front of company. I don’t hate you for doing the human equivalent of that here either. It’s OK. That’s what the site is for. It’s for pointing to misogynists when they do stupid, dishonest things and laughing at them because, well… what else are we gonna do with you?

But do go on about how above it all you are and how you’re leaving, while you stay here and tell us how hateful we are and how awful feminism is.

…. as if you saying so makes it so.

Because authority. Because dude.

Maybe eventually, you’ll even realize why that’s funny.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

RE: paul

Just because the information hasn’t been made public about the cancellation, doesn’t mean it hasn’t been made privately to people who are already going. We do live in the age of mailing lists after all.

Please don’t talk down to me. If a con hopes to get curious passerby, they need to express where it will be and have all that figured out as soon as possible, so people can plan around them. This isn’t a matter of “next-gen” communication; this is a matter of basic con management. Not everyone likes to join mailing lists; I know I don’t.

You guys love to make assumptions!

And you love to be patronizing. Seriously, you just explained basic Con Management 101 to someone who’s been selling and speaking at cons for years, though you have stated absolutely NO credentials that mean your knowledge is new or groundbreaking to me.

RE: everyone else

Hey guys, I’m finally reading Why Does He Do That? and look at the passage I just ran into!

“This line of reasoning many times develops into
a discussion of how men are the victims of women
overall in society, because women run the world.
This is a startling distortion, given which gender
actually dominates almost all legislatures, police
departments, judgeships, businesses, and so on ad
nauseam. When I point out this reality to the
Victim, he describes a kind of paranoid fantasy in
which women are behind the scenes secretly
pulling the strings, largely by getting men to feel
sorry for them. His capacity for turning things intotheir opposites in this way is a central cause of his
abusiveness.”
(pg. 272-273, in my crappily formatted PDF)

Ring any bells?

tinyorc
7 years ago
Reply to  Tulgey Logger

Tulgey Logger:

Misogynist Honking Rage Association

I just spat tea all over myself. Best version of that acronym EVER.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

Someone bring the fainting couch and smelling salts STAT!

*passes out monocles*

Now we can pop our monocles too.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y284/WolfPackChat/PARTY%20HARD/img-monocle.gif

Shaenon
7 years ago

Okay, no wait. I mean KILL THE MEN! GRRR I HATE THEM SO MUCH! THEY SMELL LIKE FEET AND THE FEMINIST CONSPIRACY SHOULD USE ITS BILLIONS IN SECRET FUNDING TO REPLACE THEM WITH MORE CATS!

That better, Paul?

kmcorby
7 years ago

Hi, recent blog follower, first-time commenter here. I don’t really think all this gloating is becoming. Let them have their stupid little conference. Forty paunchy guys sitting around have a massive bitchfest in a hotel conference room. Wow, radical. They say sunlight is the best disinfectant. The more MRAs expose themselves in public, the more the public will see how pathetic and foolish they are. Conference on, guys! It’s no skin off my nose.

magnesium
magnesium
7 years ago

Considering the amount of namecalling I’ve been on the recieving end of after only a handful of posts, I don’t really think I need to go looking for the obvious hate that exists here hell. You guys are well aware of your own levels of hate. I shouldn’t need to point them out to you.

See, he doesn’t need evidence! He just KNOWS that we want to kill all men. Evidence is misandry.

The “pretends to be neutral” troll is one of the most insufferable categories of troll. I blame Fox News with their “Fair and balanced” nonsense, mixed with a big batch of Glenn Beck style “I’m just asking questions.”

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

RE: magnesium

The “pretends to be neutral” troll is one of the most insufferable categories of troll.

My personal least favorite are the ones who think that if they just say horrible things in a “nice” enough way, they won’t be horrible anymore.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

You know, I just thought of who our trolls reminds me of and it gives me an excuse to post a Natahn Fillion clip.

Thanks trolls. The world needs more Nathan Fillion.

Colette Wedding
7 years ago

Re: Detroit cops confirming threats

That answers one thing but clears up nothing. Just ads to the confusion actually. First they no, now they said yes, yet people reported the hotel itself said there were no threats.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

The pretends to be neutral trolls really are like Hydra heads. We get rid of one (Anand) and another pops up (Paul).

I don’t even think Paul is a sock of Anand because they have different writing styles. It really does seem to be another troll filling the void.

Sigh.

marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

I’m trying to figure out how renown FeMRAs could ever be considered remotely independent. They depend on the Men’s Human Rights Moooooovement for validation. They literally exist in their chosen form in order to be praised and puffed up. They’re the Holocaust denying Jews of the MRAs. They’re the S. E. Cupp of atheists. It takes a certain intelligence to eek out that position but one doesn’t do it because they’re independent. They do it to exploit a resource.

brooked
brooked
7 years ago

@Mike Buchanan

States assault the human rights of men (and boys) to advantage women (and girls). The evidence for this lies in every life outcome you could mention.

“The evidence for this lies in every life outcome you you could mention.” An angel dies every time some one writes a sentence that is thing wrong on so many levels.

fathers denied access to children, yet the state forces them to pay maintenance on threat of imprisonment (a driver of suicide)
– absence of support for male victims of domestic violence (a driver of suicide)

Citations needed, but I thoroughly doubt any are coming and if are they are they will most likely be links to The Daily Mail.

Why has nobody accused me of lying?

Because you are breathtakingly incapable of comprehending how the world around you actually functions. You’re not smart, wise or sociable enough to be a skilled liar, but I will accuse you of being ill-informed, poor at critical reading and bereft of even a smattering of a sense of humor.

I’m sorry if the conference was cancelled, it would have been amusing to watch stunted the man-children of AVFM prove to be incapable of doing anything well at a professional level.

Finally, Poodles are very smart, but I still don’t understand why you think dogs and feminist straw women you conjured in your own head rule society.

brooked
brooked
7 years ago

Whops, curse you spell check.
**that is this wrong on so many levels.

marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

Hrm. My post made little sense. What I meant was they are to MRAs what Holocaust-denying Jews are to anti-semites. They are to MRAs what S. E. Cupp is to atheists.

It is sort of clever though – hold a position you KNOW you’ll be praised for within the circle you run in and, by belonging to the group you slander, get to claim superiority – “Oh, I’m not like THOSE OTHER girls”, which you get extra points for. You’re also guaranteed favourite status and will be protected from criticism within the group for “lending legitimacy” to their claims that you belong to a class that they characterise as a sack of shit. You’re basically a kidnapped indigenous child who has been taught to speak English and eat with a fork and knife and are paraded about palaces as evidence your class can be improved upon. You’re pretty much a sideshow and as long as you tow that party line your fags and Cheetos costs are covered. You’ll forever being a monkey playing the symbols in exchange for bits of banana and peanuts though.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

Yeah, the only reason I haven’t killed my sons yet is that they aren’t big enough to be good eat’n. Gotta let ’em get bigger. It’s OK if they toughen up. I plan to baste and slow roast them over a giant scented candle. It’s right out back with the frolicking unicorns and the vegan cheese that tastes exactly like the real thing.

My husband? Well, if I kill him who will carry me on his shoulders as I whip him through shopping centers screaming, “Buy me jewelry!” Nobody, that’s who! Can’t have that.

/sarcasm

I’m entertained at these guys calling men who don’t hate women lapdogs (because coming right out and saying “bitches” would be too obvious) by calling them “purple Poodles”. Poodles are very smart, hearty dogs. Standard poodles are working class dogs bred for hunting and served as war dogs for a large chunk of history.

Purple is a beautiful color with a history of being associated with kings and emperors.

The idea that the color and the breed of dog are now silly or ignoble and being called a “purple poodle” is derogatory and insulting because they are now associated with femininity is just another projection of their misogyny.

They are so good at being accidentally hilarious.

pecunium
7 years ago

So Mikey, let me get this straight, the inevitable victory of the MRM is just that, but persons unknown can derail a conference; even after your guys raised 29,000USD for the required additional security we were told was needed because persons unknown called in threats.

YOU WILL NEVER DEFEAT THE MHRM, EVEN AT THIS STAGE. Looks like someone defeated you at this stage.

Shaenon
7 years ago

It is sort of clever though – hold a position you KNOW you’ll be praised for within the circle you run in and, by belonging to the group you slander, get to claim superiority – “Oh, I’m not like THOSE OTHER girls”, which you get extra points for.

There seems to be a strong thread of machismo to it, especially with the Honey Badgers. They’re enormously proud of their ability to take crap from the crappiest men on the planet, and they look down on other women for not being “tough” enough to stand around and get crap flung at them all day. The idea that most people don’t want to go around covered in crap, and are off leading happy non-crap-covered lives, confuses and angers them.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

Why has nobody accused me of lying?

Haven’t I?
I am so sorry. I really thought I had.

You’re a lying liar who lies.
Badly.
and often.

Maybe no one else has because in order to lie, one has to actually know what the truth is and purposefully distort it. I can see why people would give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you don’t know enough about anything to lie about it. You’re a very simple person. But don’t worry. I don’t see you that way at all. Simple as you are, I think you know exactly how untrue every one of your claims are and are lying out of the pant pissing fear that you might one day get caught doing the things you accuse women of lying about. I think you perpetrate abuse and distrust toward women knowingly, just like Paul Elam.

Either way, you’re spreading misinformation. Whether you are ignorant or just an nasty little coward, you haven’t written a true statement yet.

Except your name. You’re so proud of your bigoted horseshit that you post under your real name. I’ll give you that.

Shaenon
7 years ago

YOU WILL NEVER DEFEAT THE MHRM, EVEN AT THIS STAGE.

What is it with misogynists and talking like Captain Planet villains? You never see feminists going BWA HA HA COWER WRETCHES, YOUR PUNY WEAPONS ARE USELESS AGAINST OUR SCIENCE LEGOS AND DIVA CUPS. Even though that would be an awesome thing to say.

dratman
7 years ago

Has any supposedly feminist organization or group or person ever issued a threat to a hotel or any other public accommodation? I would doubt it, but if anyone has done that, it would be good to know. But I think — no, I’m sure — the MRA would be perfectly capable of such an act, to scuttle something that wasn’t working and lay the blame on feminists.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

You never see feminists going BWA HA HA COWER WRETCHES, YOUR PUNY WEAPONS ARE USELESS AGAINST OUR SCIENCE LEGOS AND DIVA CUPS. Even though that would be an awesome thing to say.

*falls out*

You will now!

Muhahahaha!

marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

Honey badgers are a sad case of eating shit. They eat the shit of the people whose validation they seek, which they then shit themselves and eat. They’re so accustomed to it that they can’t comprehend one does not have to eat shit. When other women refuse to eat shit they think those women are making demands, unable to wrap their heads around the fact the default position for the species is not poop-eating. The notion women can exist without eating shit makes them very cranky. They don’t want to admit that they too could have spent their lives not eating shit.

Fibinachi
7 years ago

Well, damn. I guess I have to tell Fibinachi I can’t be a White Knight Mangina in our RP anymore, I’ve been demoted to poodle.

Poddle is a great class. It’s all supporting, manipulating and exciting weaponized fur fashion.

dratman
7 years ago

“You never see feminists going BWA HA HA COWER WRETCHES, YOUR PUNY WEAPONS ARE USELESS AGAINST OUR SCIENCE LEGOS AND DIVA CUPS.”

Saying that might work better than just ignoring some moron’s 8th grade dropout writing. People think a woman is never supposed to get angry, only annoyed — which is immediately called “bitchy” and dismissed. I think it is better to be genuinely angry at the nastiest comments.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

We will pelt all you stupid menz with our science girl legos from upon our menstrual high horse AND ACHIEVE VICTORY!!!

YOUR DAY WILL COME MENFOLK!!!

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

marinerachel,
I got it. It made sense.

I was a female misogynist when I was younger. I don’t think there is a word that is fit to describe how turned around I was in my thinking, but I knew people who thought it made me cool. I understand exactly how they internalized misogyny and how desperately they want to disassociate from other women, especially women with backgrounds of abuse. It’s a way to feel safe. It’s a way to tell yourself that you have worth. It’s a way of not seeing just how big of a problem people hating you for who you are is. It’s a coping mechanism and it upholds the status quo that you’ve been trained to uphold at your own determent. It’s how you end up with Herman Cain and Log Cabin Republicans. It isn’t a smart move. They aren’t doing it on purpose. They really think they’re special, smarter and safe from bigots. They aren’t. They think they are respected and that these men see them as peers. They don’t. They’re props and the day they stop letting themselves be used as props, Shai Hulud will turn on them with a quickness.

Nequam
Nequam
7 years ago

Is there a reason you guys keep talking to the trolls, especially the ones that flounce? I can think of many more fun things to do, starting with seeing how far I can drive a bamboo skewer under my large toenail.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

The notion women can exist without eating shit makes them very cranky. They don’t want to admit that they too could have spent their lives not eating shit.

^THIS!

Shadow_Nirvana
7 years ago

Hey everyone, long time lurker and one previous time poster. I have an offtopic question.

How do you people deal with youtube comments, especially under any video that deal with feminism? I was just watching a video of “The Young Turks” called “College Students Show Why Feminism Is Necessary, Even In 2014”. The video was okay, but goddamn the comments… Goddamn.

-The “feminism is female supremacist, fuck feminism, let’s be humanist” argument.

-“maybe they call you bossy and bitchy because you are!!!” line in response to someone in the video claiming she needs feminism because she shouldn’t be called those words when she tries to take the lead.

-“cat calling is a compliment but women take it too seriously.” line

-“a key that can open any lock is a great key, a lock that is opened by any key is just a shitty lock” line to proclaim that studs are great but sluts are bad.

Dammit. After fighting and arguing against so many antifeminist points in thebluepill and pruplepilldebate subreddits and actually having data-thanks to HookingUpSmart blog- to prove the last one completely wrong(heterosexual men and women pretty much have the same rates of having and not having intercourse, partnership etc.), I am seeing that nothing is changing and maybe it will never change.

These lameass and unfounded ideas seem to be taking hold if Youtube comments are any signal of general people behaviour. Look at the support the dumbass thunderf00t is getting as an “intellectual”. There are people that actually think that his critiques of feminism is somehow intelligent, rather than the regurgitation of the same-old bulshit. Even in a lot of news’ comment sections these thought processes seem to be taking hold. Honestly, seeing someone making sense and not drowning in idiocy is like a rare fresh breath of air.

This has really depressed me, to be completely honest. How do you folks deal with it? David, how do you deal with people making the same MRA arguments that have been refuted completely?

Sorry for the long post, this really affected me a bit lol.

marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

Oh, oh, oh – what do you guys (gynes?) think about THROWING DIRTY TAMPONS AT MEN? It wouldn’t be oppression, per se – we’d accomplish that systemically – but a little slap-stick in order to add insult to injury can only be a good thing.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

Poddle is a great class. It’s all supporting, manipulating and exciting weaponized fur fashion.

Wow. Can I be purple poodle, even though I’m a woman? Is it something only a “mangina” male feminist ally can be?

Mostly I just want the weaponized fur fashion.

As long as its faux fur.

Winter Walker
7 years ago

OUR KITTIES WILL POOP ON YOUR TIRED CLICHES AND LIES!

Now pardon me while I light some scented fucking candles. The feline just made a really big smell.

Lea
Lea
7 years ago

Nequam,
…and yet, here you are…
All out of bamboo skewers?
Maybe you mean it and this mystifies you. Maybe not.

I’ve seen fundamentalist religionists and sexists say the same thing to progressive atheist bloggers. “Why don’t you get out and enjoy yourself! Why do you have to keep pointing out lies and bigotry! Why can’t you pretend they don’t exist? What’s wrong with you that you enjoy pointing out bad ideas and bad actions?”

I don’t know how the internet works where you are, but I can leave mine home or take it with me. I can do things in and around the house and still come back and comment. So far today I’ve taken the kids to the pool and gotten all manner of little puttering things done. I suppose I could do something other than mock misogynist scum in my spare time, but this is awfully fun. You are welcome to not feed the trolls if that’s your preference. Sometimes, I ignore them too. Sometimes I have to take breaks from the internet entirely because it can be triggering and I don’t need to see every toxic, awful thing ever written by an idiot online. For my own health, I have to take breaks.

Sometimes I like to watch them eat til they pop like ticks under a match.

That’s what they get for making the wider world something I need to take breaks from.

marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

You don’t deal with YouTube comments. I actively avoid looking at them by modifying the size of my browser window. If I see them I will be upset, inclined to engage, which I will do because I’m fucking impulsive, and a cycle of self-flagellation will ensue and nothing will be accomplished. I can’t win with YouTube comments so I remember the wisdom of the great Oatmeal and “Nope!”

I actually do the exact same thing every time a school shooting occurs. I either “Nope” or “I just can’t” and stick my head in the sand before any of the stupid reaches my brain. I don’t know how to engage effectively and always come out of the discussions feeling like complete shit so I just don’t.

It’s not productive. It enables the status quo to persist. I don’t know what else to do though. Who’s got a better way of dealing with stupid (almost all) YouTube comments?

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

Of course I realise that, but your premise is laughable. Why would radfems want to pressure the Detroit Hilton into cancelling the conference if they wanted to expose its ‘terrible ideas’? They’d surely want to make every effort to disseminate videos of the speeches etc. I want people to be exposed to facts and arguments they’re clearly not being exposed to on your blog, from the evidence of your comments stream.

Perhaps you could demonstrate that this is actually the case? I have to agree that we have no reason to pressure any hotel to cancel your silly conferences – recent history has shown that sunlight is toxic to your cause, and that, even when rallies are held, almost nobody bothers to show up. Why would we give a flying fuck?
Unless you have more evidence for “radfems” pressuring the Detroit Hilton to cancel your screaming match (I.e. any evidence at all.) than FTSU Elam claiming it to be so, why are you parading it around as if it were a fact?

hellkell
hellkell
7 years ago

Is there a reason you guys keep talking to the trolls, especially the ones that flounce? I can think of many more fun things to do, starting with seeing how far I can drive a bamboo skewer under my large toenail.

We feed ’em till they burst around here. They seem to like the attention and we get a chew toy. You’re free to stick bamboo under your nails.

tigtog
7 years ago

Just wondering about the alleged $29K of donations via PayPal for the allegedly required extra security due to the alleged death threats.

Unlike using a dedicated crowdfunding site which shows the donations total as the funds accumulate, PayPal only shows an account balance to the account holder, right? So nobody else has any independent proof of how much money was/n’t donated to Elam via PayPal? Or am I missing something?

Shadow_Nirvana
7 years ago

@marinerachel It does seem to be the best option, but I don’t know. As someone who was a redpiller a year and a half ago, the thought of these guys having a more dominant place in society makes me queasy. And just ignoring the comments and letting them fester seems very irresponsible. On the other hand, I’ve never seen anybody change their minds in a Youtube comment discussion, so there’s that.

Ally S
7 years ago

As someone who was a redpiller a year and a half ago

Oh dear. How did you change?

pallygirl
pallygirl
7 years ago

/sigh so according to Mikey, the only actual victims are male victims, female victims are just attention-seeking annoyances out to get men.

Yep, that’s a true equality movement right there.