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no trolls allowed open thread

Open Thread for Non-Personal Stuff. No Trolls, No MRAs.

trollhunter

I had an interesting conversation recently with a woman on Twitter who told me that my policy of letting MRAs and misogynists comment here, at least so long as they’re not abusive, was keeping her and others she knew from joining in the conversation; she wanted a place to discuss MRAs where she didn’t have to deal with them.

I know a lot of the regulars here like engaging with the trolls and MRAs who stop by, but I’d like to create some space here for commenters who want to discuss the issues in a Troll- and MRA-free zone.

So I thought I’d try starting a new kind of Open Thread: A No-Troll, No-MRA, No-Misogynist, No-Rape-Apologist, No-Douchebag Thread to discuss the issues I cover on the blog and anything related to that: Misogyny, MRAs, PUAs, MGTOW, the “Red Pill,” and so on. Enjoy!

Oh, and if a troll wanders in, or if someone starts being douchey, ignore them and send me a note. I’ll delete their comments and ban them. No warning, no moderation, straight ban.

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cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I’m just like…how can you be off topic in an open thread? Is this a riddle?

katz
6 years ago

Nor does it occur to them that, if single moms’ boyfriends are violent, the people at fault are the violent boyfriends.

Yet another article acting like reducing male violence is like reducing heart disease.

Emmy Rae
Emmy Rae
6 years ago

A little late to the game here, but in response to Many Words from Tea for Two, I think it’s worth pointing out that caring about women’s lives is feminist. (Katz, I’m pretty new here, but I believe you are a woman? Sorry if I messed that up.) Point being – discussing women’s lives, what we do with our time, what we care about, and treating that as important is a feminist act, as far as I’m concerned.

And even if it weren’t, it’s cool to hear about what people in your community are up to.

Emmy Rae
Emmy Rae
6 years ago

The Washington Post: so relevant, it uses the phrase “taking lovers” to describe modern relationships. Based on that, I’m sure their understanding of the problem of domestic violence is totally accurate and useful!

Kim
Kim
6 years ago

The issue to me is why does something *have to be* “less female” of an activity *before* it “becomes less looked down on?” Which does seem to remain the case.

I specifically said “less gendered” (not less female) OR “less looked down upon”.

Kim
Kim
6 years ago

I realised you probably aren’t saying that’s what I believe but rather that’s what often happens (though you do say it like it always happens which muddies things).

I agree that it sucks that that is the way it often goes. But IMO the best way for things to be mainstreamed and more respected while still being coded female is to talk about them and promote them as if they should be taken seriously.

I’m not sure why you think it’s bad that we don’t exclusively talk about “issues” though. I’ve been in feminist spaces where it’s exclusively issues and it’s boring as hell. Different people learn different ways, and this mix of social justice, mockery, socialising and irreverence is perfect for me. It was like this when I got here, and I don’t want it to change. Why do you think it should change to suit you?

enhancedvibes
enhancedvibes
6 years ago

I grew up in the DC metro area and still read the Post and the op-eds.  George Will can die in the flames of my discontent!  I always thought his ops were ridiculous but good gravy. A few posts have panned the newspaper but keep in mind that Will writes opinion editorials. No newspaper is perfect and most major papers post right leaning op-eds all the time, just sayin.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Is it bad that I kind of want to keep Mikey?

It might be the caffeine talking, but he’s kind of hilarious.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Wrong thread. Whoops. I suppose it still works for this thread. Referring to “LEGOS IS EBIL FOR WOMEN SCIENCY PEOPLE FIGURES” Mikey.

katz
6 years ago

Is it bad that I kind of want to keep Mikey?

Only if you promise to walk him and brush his combover every day.

Stevie
Stevie
6 years ago

I don’t know whether it’s geographically feasible for any forum member to reach this, but there are another two days to run for the first ever conference on ‘Rape as a weapon of war’ at the Excel centre in London. There is a very rich array of free events for all at the conference; I think it’s well worth a visit, if you are able to.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Mikey is basically a substitute for Tom, but with 99% less calling everyone whores (penguins included).

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

Only if you promise to walk him and brush his combover every day.

Snort.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

*skims to bottom*

“katz, the way this has turned into the All About Tea for Two thread has sent me straight through “frustrated” and out the other side to “eyes glazing over”. So yeah, you speak for me.”

Ditto. Anyone want a Reese’s? Or cookies?

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Yeah, I’m not getting involved in that.

“you could have the character ridiculously defensive about the people they care about. Like if anyone even dares hurt them, your character goes right off”

Hey! That’s not a bug, that’ same feature! (That’s the best way to make me go from “oh fuck off” to “you motherfucking fucker you did NOT just say that”)

Flaws…some sort of illness that will, eventually, take its toll, but for now is mostly just a thing for her to mentally struggle with? Maybe have it progress through the book if that’s a thing you want?

Or, on the less sympathetic side of things, she loves her job, but X bigotry means she refuses to work with Y clients?

(I can dig up VtM books for RP flaws, some/most will be irrelevant, but might find some ideas? I have them all in PDF, and can get them to you if you want them)

kittehserf
6 years ago

*megaphone voice* THIS COMMENT SECTION HAS BEEN CONFISCATED.

::sporfle::

A little late to the game here, but in response to Many Words from Tea for Two, I think it’s worth pointing out that caring about women’s lives is feminist. (Katz, I’m pretty new here, but I believe you are a woman? Sorry if I messed that up.) Point being – discussing women’s lives, what we do with our time, what we care about, and treating that as important is a feminist act, as far as I’m concerned.

And even if it weren’t, it’s cool to hear about what people in your community are up to.

Nicely put, Emmy Rae.

Kim:

I’m not sure why you think it’s bad that we don’t exclusively talk about “issues” though. I’ve been in feminist spaces where it’s exclusively issues and it’s boring as hell.

Damn right. It’s one of the reasons I’ve lost interest in Feministe, for example. Which, btw, might be more Tea for Two’s style.

Different people learn different ways, and this mix of social justice, mockery, socialising and irreverence is perfect for me. It was like this when I got here, and I don’t want it to change. Why do you think it should change to suit you?

So. Much. This.

Ditto. Anyone want a Reese’s? Or cookies?

Yes, please! It’s lunchtime here (for those of us slackers who didn’t get up till after 10, anyway).

Flaws…some sort of illness that will, eventually, take its toll, but for now is mostly just a thing for her to mentally struggle with? Maybe have it progress through the book if that’s a thing you want?

It could be such everyday stuff, the things that don’t seem to get mentioned so often, like an injury that wasn’t major itself, but is going to cause long-term trouble, like chronic pain, or osteoarthritis (yes knee I’m looking at you).

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Ymmm…. Reeses, accepted with thanks. 🙂

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Kitteh — I was also looking at knees! And it’d be fitting since I’d assume sex work would be particularly bad on them (you lucky bugger, not having to go all “we need to chance positions, now, my knee just decided to protest” [TMI? I’m doing that a lot tonight…])

*hands over the milanos* save me some!

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

*and the Reese’s

kittehserf
6 years ago

LOL damn right about changing positions because OW KNEES! If we’re gonna go TMI, on the odd occasion Mr K and I are playing around on this side of the veil, crappy knee/back/sudden itches do tend to cramp things a bit. Bloody relief not to have to deal with that over There.

Or spikes and stuff in the lawn, either. Playing *cough* barefoot *cough* tag in the garden could come to a sudden halt otherwise.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
6 years ago

I remember reading a romance novel where the hero had bad knees. He was trying to keep it a secret from the heroine, for some reason, and was in agony while she, um, wasn’t. Knees are Misandry!

“katz, the way this has turned into the All About Tea for Two thread has sent me straight through “frustrated” and out the other side to “eyes glazing over”. So yeah, you speak for me.”

Yep, me too.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Cheeky kitteh, very cheeky! A former king of France playing “barefoot” tag *shakes head*. Idk if I’ll ever get used to the idea that he’s just a normal bloke these days (then again, how many native born Americans say bloke, lift, telly, roundabout…so I guess he’s more normal than me!)

kittehserf
6 years ago

XD Argenti!

It’s not too much of a reach for him. The court was pretty rough-and-ready in his day – even the most sophisticated members were into practical jokes like the old bowl-of-water-over-the-door stunt, or when a friend had overeaten at dinner, pinching his clothes and tightening all the seams on them.

Plus of course he’s had a long time to leave behind his rotten sexual history and make a happy one!

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Argenti, I do that too!

I blame it on early childhood exposure to doctor who, via old videotapes. I’m still sad that jelly babies are so hard to get ahold of, here.

Half the time I remember to call the boot a trunk!

Snow-machine, though, remains unaffected. Snow-mobile just sounds silly…

contrapangloss
6 years ago

On Katz’s book, since I wouldn’t want to act opposed to ‘the confiscated comment section’ rule:

Character flaw — can handle snakes, heights, and spiders, is terrified of small children, balloons, and/or clowns.

It could happen!

I’d definitely love to see her/him be working towards/have a degree in STEM, without any of the broken-birdie stuff.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Like spiders, is scared of clowns. I like it!

Did anyone see this spider pic on Pharyngula? First time I’ve seen a spider and agreed, yep, that’s cute. Possibly because you can only see two eyes.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Terrified of kids could work well, seeing how getting pregnant would be a job hazard for a (fertile) cis woman.

katz
6 years ago

Thanks everyone, you guys are full of awesome ideas! I just wanted to get some ideas of stuff, especially negative stuff, that doesn’t feed into any ugly stereotypes about sex work. (Which is why I asked about that character in particular.)

I’ve worked out the perfect major flaw for her: She’s a fixer. Goddamn, these people drive me to distraction. She’s one of those people who can’t hear about a problem you have without immediately coming up with a solution, regardless of how little she understands the situation, and then expects you to actually do it and thinks you’re being unreasonable if you don’t. That gives her lots of room to grow as a person.

I also like bad knees because I can sympathize with that, or bad wrists, like she comes back to her apartment at night and is like “Damn, I was flogging that guy for three hours! My wrists are killing me!”

If anyone is curious, you can see the character in question in her street clothes here and in her work clothes here, on the right in both pictures (duh).

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Is she a feeder as well? Because the only thing more annoying than a fixer, is one who does that and asks if you’re eating okay, and brings around food that you’re not interested in eating.

kittehserf
6 years ago

katz, I just left comments on your pics. They’re beautiful, especially the one of them kissing!

I love the aching wrists from flogging idea. Could she be into sewing or knitting or something, too (knitting Trudi’s sweaters, maybe?) It’d give her extra cause to be pissed off if she had aching wrists.

I like the idea of her being a fixer.

Totally OT, just another upload to deviantart. (Does this break the Conscripted Thread Rule? And is the first rule of the Conscripted Thread that nobody talks about the Conscripted Thread?)

http://kittehpics.deviantart.com/art/Louis-XIII-Now-and-Then-460034412?ga_submit_new=10%253A1402466861

katz
6 years ago

Is she a feeder as well? Because the only thing more annoying than a fixer, is one who does that and asks if you’re eating okay, and brings around food that you’re not interested in eating.

She totally should be. DAMMIT TRUDI YOUR GRANDMA’S PFEFFERNEUSSE RECIPE CAN’T SOLVE EVERYTHING.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Whoops, I got the names back to front ‘cos of the person asking about Trudi as a nickname. Liselotte’s sweaters, I mean.

I love the image of Trudi rushing home from some client and baking cookies because! Because! Liselotte has been sad and not eating right and this will make everything good!

katz
6 years ago

Also because Liselotte is rail-thin and clearly needs to put some meat on her bones.

BTW, the rule of conscripted thread is that you must share pictures and updates about your SO, babies, knitting projects, garden, etc.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Oooh I like that rule!

wewereemergencies
wewereemergencies
6 years ago

@ katz but I don’t have any of those things! 🙁 Can I still comment or have I been Banned by the Power of Conscripted Threads?

kittehserf
6 years ago

Furrinati would work, wewereemergencies! All the threads are belong to them.

This is the level of activity at home today.

http://youtu.be/2EJY4V6CSyQ

katz
6 years ago

@ katz but I don’t have any of those things! 🙁 Can I still comment or have I been Banned by the Power of Conscripted Threads?

The “etc” means “or whatever else is important to you in your life at the moment.”

wewereemergencies
wewereemergencies
6 years ago

In that case I shall gush about my budgies who are little and silly and pretty. But they aren’t breeding this year so I won’t have baby budgies to cuddle 🙁 I can’t take photos though, it’s dark outside. And cold. I hate the cold.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Have you any older pics of the budgies?

wewereemergencies
wewereemergencies
6 years ago

No, they’re rather difficult to photograph. Actually….No they’re not on this computer. I do have photos of Canberra from my trip there that I’m quite proud of ( http://believing-in-words.tumblr.com/post/85903520576/photos-from-canberra ) Canberra’s even colder than Brisbane. I don’t know how you cope with Melbourne kittehs.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Those are gorgeous pics! What buildings are they?

I think Canberra’s colder than Melbourne a lot of the time, for all it’s so much further north. Funny, given how much hot air the place generates. 😉

I don’t mind the cold as long as whatever building I’m in is warm. Being cold indoors is what I find hard to handle. I get so warm so quickly walking around that cold weather’s quite welcome!

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

As a Minnesotan, I’m side eying all of you Aussies claiming that the weather is cold. Surely in Australia you never have your boogers turn to ice inside your nose in the winter.

I know it’s all relative and depends on what you’re used to but I can’t help but chuckle and say how adorable it is you think you know the cold. 🙂

kittehserf
6 years ago

Cheeky beggar!

There’s cold and there’s perishingfreezingcold. Cold enough that my hands ache indoors if there’s no heating is plenty cold enough for me! 😀

wewereemergencies
wewereemergencies
6 years ago

@kittehs thanks! They’re mostly the War Memorial & Parliament House. The stained glass is the National Library and the arch is the National Museum. It has great food. Hehe yeah I’d love to live in Canberra, except for all the politicians.

Well, and the cold. I know WWTH, I definitely don’t know cold, given it’s like 15 degrees Celsius atm, but I can’t cope anyway. Give me 35 degrees + and I’m fine though, something I bet you couldn’t do 😛

The only good thing about the cold is fuzzy socks. I am currently wearing ladybug ones. Not ones with ladybugs, but ones that actually look like ladybugs. They are fantastic.

kittehserf
6 years ago

wewereemergencies, you can have all my 35C forever! Actually you can have anything over about 23C. I don’t need it!

Ladybug socks? Cute!

I’m getting plenty of wear from my knitted stuff atm, that’s for sure.

wewereemergencies
wewereemergencies
6 years ago

You can have cool temperatures, and I’ll have warm ones. Sounds like a plan!

I don’t have the patience for knitting. Tried it once, gave up and got my grandmother to finish it for me. I’m not a huge fan of a lot of wool anyway. I find it too scratchy. But your stuff sounds cool!

kittehserf
6 years ago

I think weather temperature swapping should be a thing. Imagine the fortunes to be made if we ran the Manboobz Weather Control Internetz.

It took me forever to get into knitting, too. I felt the same way about it for years – that it was way too slow. I still feel that way about the skirt I’m knitting! 😛 But things like that jacket I just did don’t take long, ‘cos they’re simple patterns and done with bulky yarn on big needles.

I’m very wary of wool, too. I like acrylics better: they’re much softer and they wash more easily. There are some good blends to be had these days, though some of them are outrageously expensive ($29 bucks a ball? Nope, not happening!)

Speaking of knitting, I had a lovely moment last night. We (that is, Mum, the kitties and me, here) were sitting watching telly, and as happens most nights, I knew Louis had joined us. So I cuddled up next to him on the couch, as you do. I don’t generally get a glimpse of him on these evenings, I’m more likely to sense his arm against mine, or just know he’s there. But last night I could smell the wool jumper he wore (one I knitted for him earthside, yay). I could actually smell the wool – and nobody else in the house was wearing wool.

🙂

I had fun putting this pic together just now. It needs a cat, though.

http://i.imgur.com/OJInBxt.png

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Oh, I dunno, with cats added to pictures, I think more is more. 🙂

kittehserf
6 years ago

Oh, definitely. A realistic picture of our place would have lots of Furrinati around. Dogs here, cats there … it’s a wonder we can walk around, sometimes.

katz
6 years ago

Another nice thing about child weather: Warm boots. I would love to get some (faux) fur boots but I would never be able to wear them. Also you could wear a Pierre hat.