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a voice for men Dean Esmay doubling down facepalm FemRAs irony alert lying liars men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny paul elam post contains sarcasm the c-word

A Voice for Men’s Paul Elam and Dean Esmay explain the proper slurs to use for "nasty women."

That's Queen Bitch to you
That’s Queen Bitch to you

So, hoping to find out any more information I could about those threats the A Voice for Men gang has apparently been getting lately, I forced myself to listen to 45 minutes worth of a regular AVFM YouTube show with the highly ironic name Intelligence Report. The topic of the show was ostensibly the “Death Threats in Detroit.” But somehow, AVFM’s Paul Elam, Dean Esmay and Tara Palmatier managed to reveal much less about this subject than they did about their own obsessions and insecurities.

At one point in their rambling conversation they began talking about how unfair it was that the Southern Poverty Law Center had profiled the AVFM gang as a bunch of woman-haters, when really the SPLC should be putting mean feminists on their Hatewatch list instead. And somehow this segued into a discussion of gendered slurs against women, and why it was just fine to use them, so long as you didn’t use them to refer to every single woman on planet earth.

And yes, I’ve saved a sound clip of this edifying discussion for you. You’re welcome!

Oh, just a little FYI, when Pauly says they never ever ever ever use the words “cunt” or “bitch” to describe women as a group — as if using those words is totally fine otherwise — he’s lying. At least when it comes to “cunt.”

With “bitch,” well, they’re awfully fond of the word, but technically I can’t recall a writer there calling literally every single woman on planet earth a bitch. I mean, granted, Elam once wrote an article titled Princess Miserable and the Great American Bitch Machine, in which he suggested that

feminism, consumer products, psychology, media, advertising, politics and social custom [have] all merged into one Great Big Bitch Machine; [and] the modern female psyche is nothing more than a product of that machine

But technically he’s not calling all women bitches there. Just saying that “modern female psyche” is the product of a “Great Big Bitch Machine.”

Not the same thing at all.

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cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

My gran’s dog used to always try to lick people’s bare feet, in between their toes. Border collie with a foot fetish! I wasn’t a fan of that particular habit.

piratejennie
6 years ago

@kittehserf

That is my beloved Zelda. Not to get heavy, but she died last January after 20+ years as my tiny striped Furrinati overlord.

I am just about ready to start looking at shelters for a new pair of kitty companions.

She and her brother Xerxes came to me together and having kitty siblings (I would go with two cats who are friends as well) seemed to keep them happy and entertained when I couldn’t be with them.

Thanks, she was very special to me and as sweet as she looks in that picture.

cloudiah
6 years ago

It’s not curry powder! You use a curry comb to curry the pony’s coat and loosen any dirt and dead skin, and then follow it with a dandy brush to get rid of the crap the curry comb stirred up.

There would be no point in trying to flavor the pony until after you finish grooming him. And then you just feed him apples and carrots and (in the case of one horse I knew) Mountain Dew, which I suppose you can view as a kind of marinade but I really do not recommend that you eat your pony.

cloudiah
6 years ago

Zelda was a pretty girl. Good luck finding your new kitty overlords!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Aw, cutie Zelda. My cat passed away at just over 20 too, I was a mess for a while. Found my new kitty overlord the very first time I went to the shelter, where she pretty much claimed me on sight.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Rescue greyhounds are the sweetest.

I’ve always heard that! The few I’ve met were adorable.

My aunt has one. He’s totally a couch potato, but if you’re there first he’s very dainty about picking out a spot without stepping on anyone.

I can just picture it. 😀

The little rat-terrier though, that girl has absolutely no concept of personal space. She likes standing on peoples chests, to better lick the inside of their noses.

Eugh!

Zelda was a cutie! Our Magnus made it past 20, but sweet he never was – more like the cat from hell. Made for some great “how Magnus shredded my boss’s hand” stories, though.

Good luck on getting your new overlords! Getting siblings is a great idea.

piratejennie
6 years ago

Thanks all.

Nice to be around so many of those conquered by the Furrinati.

I will post pictures as soon as I find my new kitty overlords.

@cassandrakitty

My golden has a serious foot fetish. He is a rescue with kind of a murky past, so I am not sure if this is a breed thing or specific to him but he will lick as long as you allow him to and then try and get in a furtive nibble here and there. I am also not a big fan of this since I’m ticklish and he is slobbery in the extreme.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

My aunt with celiac attempted to consume gluten-free bread and just about died, stunned by it’s awfulness. She gave it to her ponies instead. They’ll eat anything. Except gluten-free products. They stopped chewing within a few seconds of it being in their mouths, all their saliva absorbed into it, and just stared at the people, wondering why they would do something so horrible.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

OK, that made me gigglesnort.

“Why you do this to me, people? You not love me any more? You run out of carrots?”

emilygoddess
6 years ago

So, according to this logic, it’s A-OK to call a POC the n-word, as long as you don’t use it to refer to every POC on the planet. And the same would be true for every other horrible slur out there.

This is pretty common, actually. My grandfather and aunt have been known to say things like “there are black people, and then there are [n-word]s”. Guess how one qualifies as the latter?

I have been tweeting about how specific individual men (identified as friends or family members) are not terrible, and then add but NotAllMen are like that/can say that/act like that, etc.

That’s pretty clever, actually.

pecunium
6 years ago

Re horses and “treats”: We had a horse who would eat anything. I’d been making vegetable stock (for borshch), and took the boiled greens to the horses.

Leus… took one bite. Brio… took one bite. Scarlett… took one bite. Sienna, ate about a quart, and decided that was enough (I had the better part of two gallons by volume). Then she came back and took another bite. Looked offended.

Repeated that about three times before she decided it wasn’t going to get tasty.

wordsp1nner
6 years ago

My babies (see avatar) are shelter buddies but not littermates. They still get along really well, though. I fell in love with Jade (the tortie) and we went to get her out of the cage, Pan was sleeping on her, and I was all, “I can’t separate them. Give me the tabby too.” Jade likes to wake people up by licking their hair, though. Pan is just wild.

A woman who ran a children’s art school out of her house on a couple acres in Montana had two rescue greyhounds. They were super sweet, even to the hordes of strange children that descended on their land every day. If I were to get a dog, I’d look into one, but I am more of a cat person and my lifestyle isn’t good for dogs.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

Marinerachel

“I’m off to self-flagellate. I must do so as a penance. I can’t bear the shame of improper punctuation and the suffering it causes les menz.”

I, wil, joen, u, deer, sistur, of, missandry, oh noes? The missandry has takken ovur me.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

Another misandrist

http://youtu.be/KzyCi1BFATA

Shaun Day
Shaun Day
6 years ago

First, emilygoddess, thank you, I am having fun drinking notallmen tears.

Second, didn’t we have a stable full to overflowing of ableist ponies and unicorns which Dave is also not allowed to eat?

Third, we got a purebred fully trained showdog Scttish Collie as a stray and could never find her owners and she had pups with a purebred Greyhound and they were so ugly they were gorgeous.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
6 years ago

@talacaris, I got “You will never wank bun” from google translate. My Swedish is from, like, 4 generations ago. I got nothin’. Except, maybe, be careful about joining cults, because once they hook you, they’ll bleed you dry. (I get the impression that being exuberant about your religion is socially awkward in Scandinavia.)

Anonymouslazycat
Anonymouslazycat
6 years ago

@marinerachel

My aunt with celiac attempted to consume gluten-free bread and just about died, stunned by it’s awfulness.

That’s strange. I’ve eaten gluten free for about…five years? And have had pretty good luck. Some brands are better than others, though.

@piratejennie

My golden has a serious foot fetish. He is a rescue with kind of a murky past, so I am not sure if this is a breed thing or specific to him but he will lick as long as you allow him to and then try and get in a furtive nibble here and there. I am also not a big fan of this since I’m ticklish and he is slobbery in the extreme.

I’ve got a golden retriever who does the same thing. If you wear socks, he’ll sometimes sit there with a sad face until you take them off.

Alice
Alice
6 years ago

Hi David, there are some MRA types blaming #sociopathwomen for the death of criminal fugitive Rodney Clavell after a siege in central Adelaide today – in particular a tweeter called @news_australia. Already calling him a hero for mens’ rights. Four women held hostage are safe. I was a few blocks away in meetings for most of the day, very eerie wondering what was happening, hoping there would be no loss of life. Thought this might be of interest.

talacaris
6 years ago

A somewhat crappy translation, I thinksketches like this woulf fly on USian telly

(wanking biscuit= somewhat legendary male group activity, last has to eat the biscuit)

“If you’ve ever been occupied with self-defilement
I want you to listen to my awakening
A group wanking session
won’t rather disturb God,
but when i comes to his Son,
There is a prohibition:

You shall never wank over a biscuit
with Lord Jesus Christ,
cause he is our Lord
and never cums last
Thus says every apostle and every gospelist:
You shall never wank over a biscuit
with Lord Jesus Christ,

When Satan wanked biscuit
with Lord Jesus Christ
he cheated as usual and used his cunning
A clothespin he fixed on our Lord Jesus’ dick
But it flew away, and the biscuit Satan had to eat.

Peter, he came third
Mark got silver
Judas , he came last
Then it went as it went.
So what have you learned from this melody?
To never mix cakes with simple masturbation.

&c &c

Dvärghundspossen
6 years ago

Talacaris, you can’t expect anyone to guess that from the video alone. 🙂

But adding to Talacaris Google translation, there’s this, um, I really do hope it’s just an urban legend?, that occasionally new recruits in the army will have this little ritual where they sit in a circle and wank over a biscuit or bun, and the one who cums last will be forced to eat the semen-covered bun.
So basically the whole joke is the utter absurdity of having Jesus and his disciples doing this as part of an enthusiastic gospel song. And it’s embedded into a longer story with the guy with the long black hair as the main character.

talacaris
6 years ago

I also think it mostly an urban legend. Somebody says that a friend of friend has participated.

well and maybe our captain made a reference to this, when the King was to visit our regiment: “Perhaps he will visit your barracks, so if you’re gonna masturbate, you all are gonna masturbate in rhytm”

kittehserf
6 years ago

Well, that’s a whole lot weirder than I could have imagined. :/

Dvärghundspossen
6 years ago

Talacaris, are you old enough to have done, um, don’t know the English for it, mandatory military service? You know, VÄRNPLIKT?

talacaris
6 years ago

Yes, back when it was mandatory. I think the word you’re looking for is conscription. Mostly in cooking, but had some training in cash handling, postal handling and maintenance planning, working under the company quartermaster (Intendenturtroppchef/ Trosstroppchef)

katz
6 years ago

Yes, back when it was mandatory. I think the word you’re looking for is conscription. Mostly in cooking, but had some training in cash handling, postal handling and maintenance planning, working under the company quartermaster (Intendenturtroppchef/ Trosstroppchef)

…You worked with a quartermaster? I’m going to assume it was like this.

AL3H
AL3H
6 years ago

@arctic ape
“I’m actually Finnish”

I was wondering about that after the conversation with kittehserf. I made good friends with a Finn in my Japanese class and was lucky enough to be able to organize to go back through Finland on a trip in March, and have some leave so that i could catch up and have a look around. I had a really lovely time. 🙂

So, now, if anyone mentions Finns or Finland, I smile.

Dvärghundspossen
6 years ago

When Husband graduated from high school military service was still mandatory on paper, but it was pretty easy to get out of it if you didn’t wanted to. Husband said he couldn’t take the phys test because of having a cold, but said he was really weak with bad stamina (not true, since he played in a handball team back then, but he was very skinny-looking), and the phys test people were like “okay, we’ll just estimate some numbers for you” and wrote down some pretty crap numbers for strength and stamina. He also said to the psych tester that he had all these phobias and was really mentally unstable etc, to the point where the psych tester went “you really, really don’t wanna be in the army, do you?” and he went empathically “NO” and was let off.
A friend of Husband’s claimed he had such an extreme phobia for spiders and other kinds of bugs that he’d be reduced to a nervous wreck if out in the woods, and was let off for that reason. The psych testers obviously realized that lots of people were making shit up, but since they didn’t need that many people anyway, they’d just let the ones off who made it very obvious that they didn’t wanna be there.
My then-boyfriend, however, really was deemed unfit for various reasons… And it pissed him off. Particularly as he had had a worse result on the phys test than a girl who was trying out at the same time (army service was open for girls as well, although it was voluntary for women, mandatory for men). But yeah, he was a fucking idiot.

I remember as well how a friend of mine at the time had a boyfriend who was a professional hockey player, or at least on the verge of going professional – don’t remember precisely, but in any case, he was super-fit and muscular. He didn’t really wanna be in the army, but was too stupid to come up with a mental problem. Instead he pretended in an extremely unconvincing way to be too physically weak. He’d go on an exercise bike which was supposed to test endurance and pretended to be out of breath after thirty seconds, like “*pant pant pant* OOOOH I can’t do this anymore, I am SO tired!” and the testers would be like “um, you’re not, we’re checking your pulse you know” and he’d be “no you guys, I’m really super tired, I swear!”. He’d also pretend that he couldn’t lift anything heavier than like five kilos or so, despite having huge bulging biceps. The testers got pissed off at him, like, okay, they were willing to let people off the hook for fairly unconvincing reasons, but this was just insulting. Eventually, though, they did write down some really crap strength-and-stamina numbers in his phys test and let him off because they couldn’t stand there arguing with him all day, and he was so stubborn.

Dvärghundspossen
6 years ago

Other absurd urban legends about the Swedish army, btw, from back in the day with conscription: That there was a special “gay company” at the island of Gotland, where all the gay soldiers were sent.

emilygoddess
6 years ago

Other absurd urban legends about the Swedish army, btw, from back in the day with conscription: That there was a special “gay company” at the island of Gotland, where all the gay soldiers were sent.

Was this supposed to be a punishment, or a reward?

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
6 years ago

AL3H:

So, now, if anyone mentions Finns or Finland, I smile.

Great you had a great time 🙂

Dvärghundspossen:

The psych testers obviously realized that lots of people were making shit up, but since they didn’t need that many people anyway, they’d just let the ones off who made it very obvious that they didn’t wanna be there.

Finnish conscription is slowly developing in the same direction. Still, over 70 % of men do their military service, and there’s plenty of pretense that every man is needed. (Not a single woman, however, was needed until about 20 years ago.)

Some 5 % of men do “civilian service”, like I did. It was reasonably well accepted at least in my social circle, whereas nobody seriously supported lying about your health. I’m also an extremely poor liar. In my time you didn’t have to any more actively fake principled pacifism to get into civilian service.

My then-boyfriend, however, really was deemed unfit for various reasons… And it pissed him off.

There is growing recognition that not every able-bodied guy is worth dragging into the military even for appearance purposes. Especially if they don’t want to serve, and sometimes even if they do.

Still, while our military service is hard enough for the Average Dude, it’s kind of a joke in the context of military training. This is both because training and material resources are stretched thin on large number of dudes, and because you can’t strain non-consenting conscripts too hard in a supposedly civilized country, and because Average Dude is probably poorly motivated and won’t even keep himself physically fit once he’s out of training.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
6 years ago

So, in the wank biscuit video, he was shot by an arrow in the end because, um, he needed to come to a bad end?

kittehserf
6 years ago

to the point where the psych tester went “you really, really don’t wanna be in the army, do you?” and he went empathically “NO” and was let off.

I sporfled.

Eventually, though, they did write down some really crap strength-and-stamina numbers in his phys test and let him off because they couldn’t stand there arguing with him all day, and he was so stubborn.

Sounds like “too stupid even for the army” was the conclusion.

pecunium
6 years ago

kittehs: Sounds like “too stupid even for the army” was the conclusion.

IME the army, as a rule, isn’t populated by stupid people.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

1) yeah, we had a stable of ableist unicorns, nine I believe it was, and a couple horses and teal deer. And no, David is not allowed to eat them!

2) pecunium — unless they’re a soup sandwich? How’ dr hat wording go? …how’d that…I’m leaving autocorrect’s failure for the lulz.

Also, the other thread, can you post over there that the parent cactus gets a deep watering off to the side of it every couple of months? The way this particular one roots is weird and when I watered it directly it wasn’t putting roots DOWN but OUT. Idfk. In any case the one I’ll be sending LBT should be fine with being plopped on wet soil, stuck in a window and ignored until Halloween.

Dvärghundspossen
6 years ago

@Emily: I’m not quite sure, but I think the legend of the gay company at Gotland partly came about as some kind of reassurance for homophobes. Way back (not quite sure how long back – the seventies?) openly gay people weren’t allowed to serve. That rule changed, and then obviously homophobes would be be worried that perhaps they’re gonna have to shower with and sleep in the same room as gay soldiers. And then this story came about that told them don’t worry, they send all the gay soldiers to Gotland.

@ Arctic Ape: In Sweden we had “weaponfree service” for pacifits (completely opting out because you were a pacifist was punishable by jail, but you could do “weaponfree service”). Weaponfree service could be, like, being an army cook or army nurse or something like that. If you did that, though, you had to do more time than regular soldiers – as some kind of punishment for being a pacifist, idk?
When I was a young teen I was pretty active in the local baptist church, and all the men there had done weaponfree service. Afaik that was the thing with baptists everywhere in the country, that they wouldn’t touch guns, because if “thou shalt not kill” then it must also be against God to practice killing (they were also funny in that a lot of them were creationists, but they’d interpret all Bible passages where people are slaughtered in the name of God symbolically). Except for those guys, I actually only know two people who did weaponfree service – two of my old philosophy professors. Although I do know, as I told above, a bunch of people my age who lied their way out of army service, after conscription was coming to an end anyway and the testers didn’t really care much any longer.

kittehserf
6 years ago

kittehs: Sounds like “too stupid even for the army” was the conclusion.

IME the army, as a rule, isn’t populated by stupid people.

Point. I’m thinking more of tropes from WWII and the Goons.

ToolBox
ToolBox
6 years ago

It’s really embarrassing that Tara Palmatier has “Dr” in her name.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
6 years ago

Dvärghundspossen:

Finland also had a weaponsfree service option until recently. IIRC, it was scrapped when civilian service had become more mainstream and not something only hardline pacifists would do. Civilian service is entirely separated from military functions*, it’s basically community service plus few weeks of camping in a “training center” doing essentially nothing.

I’m not aware if there was ever a systematic effort to exclude gay men from military. You can apparently get exempted from service if you claim to be super awkward around naked men, whether you’re straight or gay, cis or trans**. There is traditionally a stereotype that men who choose civilian service are gay, because obviously we fail proper masculinity.

* Still not enough for some hardline pacifists who choose prison instead. Jehovah’s Witnesses used to do this consistently enough that they were granted exemption. Åland men are also exempt due to demilitarization agreement, which in turn was a condition for Finland keeping Åland when Sweden demanded to annex it. Åland men can thank Sweden for this agreement 🙂

** Instead of “men” in the context of conscription, I should have used “male-assigned people” for accuracy. As noted above, female-assigned people were excluded from the military until 20 years ago.

pecunium
6 years ago

Argenti: The army is large enough that there will be some idiots. Also a lot of them are young, and more headstrong than sensible.

The phrase is, “ate up, like a soup-sandwich”.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

RE: Dvarghundspossen

When I was a young teen I was pretty active in the local baptist church, and all the men there had done weaponfree service.

QUITE a lot different than our local Southern Baptists, then. They’ve got the reputation of gun nuts, here!

Robert
Robert
6 years ago

As annoying as I find JWs, I have to admit that they have the courage of their convictions.

Pity that so many of those convictions are odious.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Ate up like a soup sandwich…will devote a brain cell to that, thank you!