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Is A Voice for Men using phony death threats as an excuse to smear feminists and raise a quick $25k? Here’s what we DON’T know so far. [UPDATE: Hotel still not talking]

Adjusted for inflation, those 5 cent fears are now worth $25,000
Adjusted for inflation, those 5 cent fears are now worth $25,000

Is A Voice for Men using phony “death threats” allegedly directed at those planning to attend its upcoming “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit, as well as upon employees and guests of the hotel where it’s scheduled to be held, as an excuse to smear feminists and raise a quick $25,000 in donations from readers and possibly even from a handful of gullible feminists?

As incredible as that sounds, that’s what some people I respect are saying. Despite AVFM’s history of lying about alleged feminist threats – you may recall John Hembling’s infamous confrontation with an imaginary mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters – I’m not willing to go that far.

But there’s a lot about the story that makes no sense, and some big questions that need convincing answers.

1) The Doubletree Fort Shelby hotel has not confirmed that the letter Paul Elam posted on his site several days ago, and which he has now removed, actually came from them. The letter is, so far, the only evidence that there were any threats.

Hotel management needs to confirm whether or not they sent this letter to Elam.

2) Both the Detroit News and the Detroit Free Press spoke to Detroit Police spokesman Adam Madera, who told them that the police had not received any reports of death threats from the hotel. He told both papers that hotel staff had asked about hiring off-duty officers for security but hadn’t specified why.

Hotel management needs to confirm either that 1) they got death threats and didn’t report them or 2) that they got no such threats. They should also confirm whether their calls about off-duty police officers were related to the “Men’s Issues” conference.

There are a few other clues that support the “hoax” theory, though they’re far from definitive:

Several people who have allegedly contacted the hotel to ask about the threat say that the managers they spoke to knew nothing about the threats. Even if these reports are true, this may not be significant; managers may not have been told about threats related to a conference many weeks off.

The Detroit News also spoke to the owner of the hotel, and he said he was unaware of any threats. That may not be significant either; he may simply be out of the loop.

Essentially, we’re waiting for the Doubletree Fort Shelby management to answer these questions. If you look at the news coverage so far you’ll notice that the hotel staffers who can answer these questions don’t seem to be answering their phones or returning calls. I left a message for them today as well. No reply yet.

The other bits of evidence we’re waiting for? Well, the letter Elam claims he got from hotel management says that he and the other conference organizers need to send the hotel proof that they’ve hired the required number of Detroit police officers to handle security, as well as proof that they have also paid for at least $2 million in liability insurance. They have to have this done by the 6th.

In light of all the questions still swirling around, I think people are going to want to see this proof too.

It may be that the hotel comes forward and confirms that the letter was real, that the threats were real, and that indeed A Voice for Men does have to shell out $25,000 for extra security. It may even be the case that it was a feminist or a group of feminists making the threats. But we don’t know. And right now the people who do know are either not talking — or they have pretty much no credibility. Let’s hope the silence ends soon, because there’s no way the not-so-good folks at AVFM are suddenly going to turn credible overnight.

EDIT: I toned down some of the language, which I think was detracting from my main points, and added a new final paragraph.

EDIT 2:  Removed some speculation. We’ll know some of the answers soon enough; no need to speculate.

UPDATE: DOUBLETREE STATEMENT

So I’ve heard back from Atiya Frederick, the PR Manager for Embassy Suites Hotels & DoubleTree, and she’s made clear that the hotel won’t be answering specific questions about any of this just yet. Here’s what she sent me.

At this time we are confining our comments on this matter to the below statement …

Hilton Worldwide strives to operate meeting places for people from all walks of life, regardless of beliefs, race, color, national origin, religion or sexual orientation. The views of our guests do not reflect the sentiment of Hilton Worldwide. As places of public accommodation, our hotels do not discriminate against any individual or group. Our goal is to provide quality accommodations and a pleasant environment for our guests, employees and members of our community . We would like to emphasize that we strive to be an inclusive company and regret if this policy has unintentionally offended any individual or organization. 

This statement seems to be their standard response when they host a conference by a controversial group.

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Lea
Lea
7 years ago

emilygoddess,

Point and laugh.

pecunium
7 years ago

Anand: Weirwoodtreehugger, True. The more i read the comments here the more i support the MRAs. After coming across this thread, ive personally donated to avfm for the extra security costs. The fact that violence has been used once to silence MRAs for a peaceful talk is proof enough that there are going to feminists at this conference too.

Let me get this straight… you are supporting AVfM because there was, “violence” at a previous event; in another country. By Violence you mean, “someone pulled a fire alarm”.

So you will send money to a group which supported terrorism in pursuit of it’s aims? A group which has praised people who kill women.

You’re sense of “justice” is either significantly mis-calibrated, or you just don’t give a shit if women are the victims.

I will not tolerate violence from any group in an attempt to silence a particular group

Unless it’s AVfM saying women need to be beaten so they will shut about being abused.

Unless it’s AVfM saying rapists need to be acquitted so long as women can file rape charges.

Unless it’s violence directed at women. That you don’t really give a shit about.

I would never call myself an MRA or a feminist but i severely condemn violence.

Which is why you jus sent money to “Thomas Ball is a Hero” and “Bash a Bitch” Elam.

its a matter of protecting free speech for everyone.

Liar. No MRM event has been suppressed by feminists*. MRA have said women shouldn’t be allowed to vote. So you arn’t really in favor of supporting free speech if this is where your activist dollars are going.

I know you believe feminism is above criticism but using violence in the name of feminism or any other ideology to silence a group should and always should be condemned by the followers of the particular ideology

What you know is wrong.

Again, Elam, et al, encourage violence against those whom they disagree with. You sent them money. You therefore are supporting those who advocate violence, because a group which didn’t use violence is philosophically opposed to the violence of the MRM.

Again, you need to send your sense of justice into the shop to get it calibrated.

Anyone who thinks violence is a good way to get your point across will be mocked

Which is why you are mocking Elam. Oh! Wait, you aren’t. You are attacking someone who wasn’t violent, and libeling her. Got it.

*yes, some sponsors have pulled out of events when they found out about the nature of the speakers; and yes feminists told the sponsor, but there ws no force. Feminists used their free speech to tell the sponsors, who made their own decisions, so that dog don’t hunt.

pecunium
7 years ago

Sarah: I have probably 6 people flaming me right now for being an illogical idiot for assuming law enforcement would be contacted.

They assert that the hotel would not want the bad PR/cause a panic.

They are wrong. The hotel will call the police if they have what they think is a credible threat. The Police aren’t in the habit of calling the press to say, “we have an investigation of this vague thing”. They call when they have some sensational bit of news to relate showing how good they are at stopping threats.

That, or when they need help from the public about something which has already happened.

The hotel, from a liability standpoint, has a greater interest in telling the police than they do for ignoring a threat they have reason to believe

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

The hotel, from a liability standpoint, has a greater interest in telling the police than they do for ignoring a threat they have reason to believe

Exactly. I can just imagine any insurer’s reaction after something happens, to find out that the hotel received threats beforehand and didn’t bother to tell the police. The hotel could forget making any insurance claim.

sarah
sarah
7 years ago
Reply to  pecunium

Yeah, you have to ignore logic and typical procedure for their argument to hold water.

I’m pissed at Doubletree for not confirming whether or not they sent the letter though. Kind of makes me want to print it out and hand it out to folks on the street by the hotel, ha.

pecunium
7 years ago

sarah: The insurance would probably pay for direct cost, but subsequent costs (i.e. related to the lawsuits resultant) might be the subject of different legal troubles.

The only way to avoid the PR is to not inform the conference against which the threats were made. By sending a letter to the group; and demanding a level of security, they have made it a PR issue, and a larger one than, “we got some threats, we called the police”.

From the hotel’s POV the threats are immaterial. It’s not about the hotel, it’s about the group. Depending on the group it can be good PR. If, for example, it was a Muslim American group (this being Detroit) and they got threats, Doubletree can spin it as, “we care about free speech, and we won’t let this sort of harassment against our guests persuade us to cancel their event”.

But once they send a letter, it’s out of their control. Look at this event. It’s already over the news. They are getting calls from the press. They’d be stupid to not have turned any evidence over to the police.

sarah
sarah
7 years ago
Reply to  pecunium

That’s why, given that the police say no report has been made of the threats, that I think the letter is a fabrication.

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

I’d be willing to believe that they got death threats. Maybe they were even sent by a coven (because of course coven) of feminists. Not all feminists are reasonable, so, sure, it’s believable. The short notice makes it a little questionable, as does the lack of confirmation from the hotel or the police, but it’s not entirely outside the realm of possibility. Granted, only the corner of its right shoe is inside that realm, but that still counts as within. In no way is it our responsibility to pay for their security though. I’m not going to pay for security at KKK rallies just because I’m not a racist, I’m not going to pay for security at UKIP events just because I’m not an ignorant reactionary, and I’m not going to pay for security in this case just because I’m not a misogynist. Not a chance. Let them bilk their true believers.

I don’t know why the manboobzer cult believes that anyone owes them proof of anything.

So there’s this thing called “skepticism,” you might not have heard about it, but the basic idea is that you should make sure claims are actually, you know, true before you believe them and put your time and/or money into a product or cause.
It’s like when you go to a used car dealer, and they tell you that the rusty, buckled bike wheel in front of you is a world-class sports car that’ll give you eight billion miles to the gallon and you take a few minutes to yourself to consider how likely that it really is what they say it is. You take a walk around the whole rusty bike wheel, and you inspect it. You check for the reading on the odometer… check for an odometer… wonder why there’s so much taco sauce… look for it later. You inspect the way that the buckling improves its aerodynamic profile. You check the burger king voucher that you’re handed when you ask to see the documentation. Eventually, after you’ve seen all of the evidence, you decide not to buy this sports car. It’s saved me a lot of money so far.
How’s your shiny sports car doing? How well does it perform in a straight line? No veering off into the ditch, I’m sure.

Most people here don’t condone pulling fire alarms, but let’s put it into context: that happened at ONE location. The speakers who were at those U. of Toronto events have all spoken numerous other places without being disrupted. What this shows is that MOST OF THE TIME feminists have totally ignored them or protested peacefully, not that OMG FEMINISTS ALWAYS PULL FIRE ALARMS.

See, what you’re forgetting is that if something ever happens, then it always happens. You know, like how there are a small number of false rape accusations which get pulled to pieces almost instantly, because of how they can be shown to be false, which means that 99.999% of rape accusations are false. The fact that a fire alarm was pulled once means that it always happens. It’s just that it’s a spiritual alarm pull all the other times, and only spritual fire fighters’ time is wasted.
They already know how to logic. They just need to learn how not to MRAlogic.

After coming across this thread, ive personally donated to avfm for the extra security costs.

Enjoy your sports car.

I would never call myself an MRA or a feminist but i severely condemn violence. If a feminist meeting or conference was ever threatened by MRAs who pull fire alarms and feminists were doing the fundraising for security, i would gladly donate.

……one of us has a very odd definition of violence.

There’s this reddit MRA (and occasional /r/WhiteRights poster) who sent the r/AMR mods a PM gloating about how he had “gilded” an anti-feminist comment multiple times to the tune of about $30. Gilding comments gives the comment maker some extra privileges and also gives the comment extra visibility. We all ruthlessly made fun of him for spending his $30 on reddit karma instead of donating money to something that actually helped men–a homeless shelter, prostate cancer research, whatever.

Pfft, don’t you know that the only way men’s rights can really be protected is if feminism is first demolished? Demolishing feminism, of course, is accomplished by… um… giving people on reddit access to a private subreddit. I think we’re done for.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

Well, Anand, if you’re giving money to Paul Elam and think that the red-haired feminist is the epitome of violence for swearing at a man and telling him to shut up while she was talking (as opposed to the doxxing, rape and death threats she received – I guess that doesn’t count as violence), then, what the hell is stopping you crime calling yourself an MRA?

You give money to an MRA organization and spout their talking points. Just be honest, if your capable.

scott1139
scott1139
7 years ago

I know you believe feminism is above criticism

You’re either dishonest or severely lacking in reading comprehension. Regardless, please stop saying things that aren’t true.

Also, how is saying “listen, fuckface” violent?

Anyone who thinks violence is a good way to get your point across will be mocked(see big red).

She was not merely ‘mocked’, she was continuously bombarded with horrific threats. Are you going to condemn the people who sent her rape and death threats?

Anand
Anand
7 years ago

Scott1139, Yes i do condemn people who doxxed her and sent threats to her. But it was a few trolls and a few angry people who may or may not identify as MRAs who did the doxxing. Paul Elam or avfm has never doxxed her or any other feminist out there. All information that he posts on the site have beem from social networking sites and websites where she willingly shared her details. The details were online and that’s what regirster-her does. They only share any information that the said person willingly shared on the internet(as is specified by the terms of conditions of the website or service through which she made the details public).

Also, i just read the bash a violent bitch article that everyone kept pointing at and he specifically mentioned in the article that it was satire. Its basically satire even though in poor taste.. Its silly to quote him from that article.

sarah
sarah
7 years ago
Reply to  Anand

You mean like the recent posts on AVfM’s sister sites falsely accusing a woman of making death threats and encouraging people to contact her employer?

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

Anand:

Paul Elam or avfm has never doxxed her or any other feminist out there.

Wrong.

That’s how they operate. They doxx random women, mostly those they think are the most vulnerable, like younger college women, in order to intimidate them. They post addresses and phone numbers so anyone angry enough to actually take it beyond Internet harassment can do so.

This is the organization you gave money to. You apparently don’t see a problem with this. That says more about you than anything else.

kittehserf
7 years ago

You’re either fucking stupid and gullible or a liar, Anand. Elam claims “it’s satire!” about every other thing he writes; it’s his go-to pretence. He’s not writing satire. This is the same man who says the thought of “fucking your shit up” gives him an erection (the “your” being feminists).

Do you think he was being satirical when he said he’d never vote guilty in a rape trial, even if convinced of the defendant’s guilt?

Do you think he was being satirical when he had Thomas Ball’s terrorism manifesto up on his site?

Your donation says more about you than you like: you’ve finally, indirectly admitted that you don’t give a flying fuck about male-on-female violence, and categorise women shouting as us being violent to men.

You’re just another whining MRA loser. Own your shit, sonny.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

This bunny captures my reaction to reading Anand’s boring bullshit for the millionth time http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/sleepy-gif

Athywren
Athywren
7 years ago

They only share any information that the said person willingly shared on the internet(as is specified by the terms of conditions of the website or service through which she made the details public).

Ah, right. So it’s ok to collect people’s information together in a centralised place, where people who might not be savvy enough to seek it out themselves, but, having that information, may well be motivated to cause harm to those people can browse it? There are no problems with that? Certainly, we have no trail of cases that demonstrate the actual violence and harassment that results from such things, no siree.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

RE: Anand

After coming across this thread, ive personally donated to avfm for the extra security costs.

Well, you sure showed us. You should do it again, just to REALLY spite us!

The fact that violence has been used once to silence MRAs for a peaceful talk

Uhhhh huh. Violence. That’s really what you care about, Anand. One fire alarm pull and some shouting. Damn, I can’t IMAGINE what conniptions you’d go into if you dealt with shit like Pride.

RE: Athywren (good to see you again!)

he basic idea is that you should make sure claims are actually, you know, true before you believe them and put your time and/or money into a product or cause.

Exactly. I write stories and draw pictures for folks! I did it for free a long time and uploaded a large volume of work so people knew that I could actually do it, and every writeathon I throw, the more evidence there is that when people pay me, I write what they want. I’m running entirely on word-of-mouth and reputation, so no shit I’m not going to piss off my fanbase by fleecing them!

pecunium
7 years ago

Anand: Yes i do condemn people who doxxed her and sent threats to her

And you send them money.

But it was a few trolls and a few angry people who may or may not identify as MRAs who did the doxxing.

But the, unsubstantiated, allegations of death threats… those must be from feminists? AVfM cheerleads doxxing and harassment (google register her). Them you boast of sending money.

Paul Elam or avfm has never doxxed her or any other feminist out there.

So you are an ignorant fool, or a liar (ok, I can’t rule out the strong possibilty the two states overlap in the Venn diagram of your life).

Also, i just read the bash a violent bitch article that everyone kept pointing at and he specifically mentioned in the article that it was satire.

David Duke says he doesn’t hate blacks, nor “condone” violence against them. But he’s a highly placed member of the KKK, so I am sure he’s not got any reason to dissemble.

But as to Elam and violence: He has said that he would never; even if he is certain beyond all doubt, vote to convict a man of rape.

That’s condoning violence against all women, because he disagrees with the politics of some.

But yelling at someone, that’s beyond the pale

And you are proud to send him money.

You are paying to support violence against women.

You are boasting about paying money to support violence against women.

Yet we are the horrid people, because we don’t think protesting people who think rape ought never be prosecuted isn’t something to be ashamed of.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

It is funny how Anand dismisses a whole lot of rape and death threats sent to woman after AVFM doxxed her as the work of random trolls that can’t be connected to the MRM, but that Elam saying that their group received death threats that police have never heard of, and claiming this threat was made by a feminist (and then immediately asking for money) is something that Anand just accepts at face value.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

RE: sparky

Ssssh! Anand is logical and unbiased and objective!

sarah
sarah
7 years ago
Reply to  sparky

So, got in contact with the local FBI office, just down the block from the hotel.

No threats have been reported, and they said they would have DEFINITELY been contacted.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

Sarah,

What a shock!

Anand
Anand
7 years ago

Sparky, I dont believe that ALL the protestors are feminists. I donated money to them only for the extra security. I havent donated to the website or their conference till date but only to the extra security that they need. Even if nothing happens, i would be glad to know that the conference went fine without any illegal protests(pulling a fire alarm).

Anand
Anand
7 years ago

Pecunium, i recently read a satire by a feminist who wanted a national castration day to castrate all males in public.

Yet you dont see me using that as proof for why feminism is evil.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

Anand,

Have you ever donated money to Rebecca Watson for security after she got subjected to years of harassment and threats for reporting harassment in the atheist community? Because misogynists sure love to go after her,

Or what Anita Sarkeesian or Melissa McEwan? They get harassment and threats for the crime of writing while feminist. Did you ever donate anything to them?

Have you ever donated to any feminist who was subjected to harassment? Has it ever even crossed your mind?

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

Actually that national castration day woman doesn’t identify as a feminist.

Nice try. No sale.

cloudiah
7 years ago

Good article about the movement to protest the conference.

Of course MRAs have responded to news of the protest the way they respond to everything: by harassing women. From the moment the Facebook event page went live, men involved with and sympathetic to AVfM were harassing individuals as they RSVP’d for the protest, with some unsurprisingly going so far as to threaten violence against anyone who attempted to interfere with the conference. At least one woman involved with organizing the march and rally was targeted in a classic MRA fashion, when Jonathan Taylor posted her name and email on the Voice for Men blog. Taylor accused Emma Howland-Bolton, a fifth grade public-school teacher, of being responsible for (unconfirmed) bomb and death threats against the hotel, as well as being unfairly biased against her male students. Other MRAs have since contacted Howland-Bolton’s workplace and the Detroit superintendent of schools in an attempt to have her fired.

Emma had a great quote:

When A Voice for Men started targeting me, publishing my personal information online—my picture, email, place of work—I guess I was flabbergasted. But I guess it’s not surprising that they acted in such an irrational manner. Sexism is irrational. Misogyny is irrational. So a male supremacist hate group like A Voice for Men that embraces sexism and misogyny is also going to be irrational. They make no effort to be coherent, to connect to reality. In fact, they can’t. You cannot connect to reality if your beliefs are predicated on the assumption that, simply by virtue of your gender, you are superior to another person.

Hey Anand, you contributed to an organization that published her personal information online and tried to get her fired. You’re a real shit.

Anand
Anand
7 years ago

Weirwoodtreehugger, Can you link towards any page for donation for rebecca watson as i’ve never come across a donation page for her. I would gladly donate if my money will put to good use.

Anita sarkeesian is a liar and i will never donate to her because most of what she says are lies. Her theories have been debunked so many times its ridiculous to even mention her name again.

I have never heard of Melissa McEwan. I will read up on her before commenting about her.

Anand
Anand
7 years ago

Cloudiah, No i didnt donate to them. I donated for the extra security that was arranged for the conference. At best, i donated my money to keep them safe from protestors.

Also quoting msmagazine for men’s rights is like quoting an uber Christian website to debunk evolution. Nice try.

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

I’m not sure I want to help Anand contact any feminist blogger because of his boundary issues.

I was just pointing out that he doesn’t appear to care about threats against women.

Anand
Anand
7 years ago

Auggzilliary, That was entirely satire as far as i know. I doubt intelligent women like GWW, JB, typhonblue etc would support a movement that hates women.

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

Sparky, I dont believe that ALL the protestors are feminists. I donated money to them only for the extra security. I havent donated to the website or their conference till date but only to the extra security that they need. Even if nothing happens, i would be glad to know that the conference went fine without any illegal protests(pulling a fire alarm).

Wow. That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said, Anand. In fact, I’m a little confused as to how you got that out of what I said.

What I said was, it’s interesting that you’re taking Paul Elam’s account if feminists making death threats (that has no evidence) at face value, but hand-wave away the death and rape threats received by the red-haired feminist. And claim that AVFM hasn’t doxxed anyone, which they have.

Anita sarkeesian is a liar and i will never donate to her because most of what she says are lies. Her theories have been debunked so many times its ridiculous to even mention her name again.

And what exactly is he lying about? Getting death threats, of saying that video game tropes are sexist?

cloudiah
7 years ago

Cloudiah, No i didnt donate to them. I donated for the extra security

You gave them money. You quite literally donated to them. You lined Paul Elam’s pockets. You are financially supporting the largest & consistently most vile group of bigots and harassers within the manosphere. You are a shit.

cloudiah
7 years ago

I doubt intelligent women like GWW, JB, typhonblue etc would support a movement that hates women.

GWW thinks women shouldn’t have the vote, and that sometimes domestic violence is just like foreplay. judgybitch thinks child sex abuse victims were asking for it. typhonblue thinks slaves had more power than their masters.

This is your idea of intelligent?

sparky
sparky
7 years ago

Auggzilliary, That was entirely satire as far as i know.

No it wasn’t. Paul Elam said, in all seriousness, that if he were ever in the jury of a rape trial he would vote to acquit, no matter what the evidence and even if he thought the defendant was guilty. That wasn’t satire. He meant every word of it.

I doubt intelligent women like GWW, JB, typhonblue etc would support a movement that hates women.

::snort:: You are so transparent. And you are a really bad judge of intelligent women if you think GWW, JB and TyphonBlue are “intelligent women.”

weirwoodtreehugger
7 years ago

I doubt intelligent women like GWW, JB, typhonblue etc would support a movement that hates women.

Intelligent? LOL. I love that a few days Anand was pretending he’s a casual MRM follower and not all that familiar. Now all of a sudden he reveals he knows all the big feMRAs.

I also don’t think Anand understands the concept of satire.

If you truly believe it, it isn’t satire. Hyperbole maybe. Satire? No.

VPumpkins
VPumpkins
7 years ago

Everytime someone mentions Elam emphatically stating that he would declare a rapist not guilty if he was serving on a jury, it’s like Anand covers his ears and goes LALALALA I CAN’T HEAR YOU OVER HOW MUCH OF A LOGICAL MANZ I AM

kittehserf
7 years ago

GWW thinks women shouldn’t have the vote, and that sometimes domestic violence is just like foreplay. judgybitch thinks child sex abuse victims were asking for it. typhonblue thinks slaves had more power than their masters.

This is your idea of intelligent?

Given Anand is a misogynistic idiot, it probably is.

brooked
brooked
7 years ago

I second (or third or more) weirwoodtreehugger on calling shenanigans on Anand’s “I’m not a MRA” shtick. We see it all the time, it’s almost (if not always) bullshit and a red flag announcing a troll’s complete lack of good faith.

Also, if Elem fancies himself a MRA leader and a public figure, he shouldn’t be engaging in inflammatory “satire”. Jezebel is part of the Gawker Media sub-site, and meant to be frothy entertainment for the most part. Jezebel’s open to as much criticism as anyone can hurl at it, but that criticism shouldn’t be based on pretending the site has some higher social justice mission. If the AVfM is supposed to me more serious and high-minded than a site like Heartiste, then it should act that way.

kittehserf
7 years ago

I wonder if Anand’s socking, or this is just his first-round dishonesty and bad-faith posting?

Modern day trolls are so boring. Where are the great individualists of the past?

Colette Wedding
7 years ago

Hello, all! Lurker, sometimes poster from Metro-Detroit here!

I’m from southern Warren (“South Warren” or “Warrentucky” as it’s known both affectionately AND derisively) originally which is a working-class area that borders Detroit. I currently live in a different city only a few miles from Detroit. I felt compelled to comment that I’ve heard absolutely NOTHING on the local news about any such threats. The news is saturated with goings on in Detroit, particularly when it comes to crime. So if this did happen then I find it surprising it hasn’t been on the news.

But now that Sarah has said she spoke to local FBI that confirmed they’ve heard nothing of the sort I guess it’s likely to have never happened. I guess it still may have though, but I just wanted to come out of lurkdom to mention that. 🙂

pecunium
7 years ago

Anand: Anita sarkeesian is a liar and i will never donate to her because most of what she says are lies. Her theories have been debunked so many times its ridiculous to even mention her name again.

Sparky, I dont believe that ALL the protestors are feminists.

Non-responsive: The question why do you believe Elam, while discounting the people Elam doesn’t like? Especially when the threats against that person were real, and documented.

pecunium
7 years ago

Anand: Sparky, I dont believe that ALL the protestors are feminists. I donated money to them only for the extra security. I havent donated to the website or their conference till date but only to the extra security that they need.

Which is going into an escrow account, only to be used for this security? Why no, no it isn’t.

You have made a general donation; which they say will go to X. You made this donation after they had surpassed the stated need for funds.

So you just gave them money to do with as they see fit.

You did it based on a rumored set of threats.

i recently read a satire by a feminist who wanted a national castration day to castrate all males in public.

Yet you dont see me using that as proof for why feminism is evil.

Which is reasonable. But I’ve read a lot of Elam’s work. I don’t believe he was being satiric. I don’t believe this because it’s a commonly used ploy to say what one really means and then declaim, “what, you can’t take a joke?”

If this was the only time he had advocated violence against women you would be on more solid ground in saying we were overstressing this.

I also see that you have ignored that Elam has said he would commit a crime (perjury) so as to let a rapist go free. That wasn’t satire. He has never denied it. Why don’t you take him at his word there, the way you do about beating women being satire?

kittehserf
7 years ago

Colette Wedding, hi, have a Welcome Package! 🙂

sarah
sarah
7 years ago

I did not personally talk to the local FBI office.

By the time I spoke to the person who did, it was after business hours.

Hey, neighbor!

titianblue
titianblue
7 years ago

So is the proof there? Is it? Is it?

Brain bleach for while we wait…

http://imgur.com/a/dURi3

pallygirl
pallygirl
7 years ago

Those aren’t cat problems, they’re features! 🙂

marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

FemRAs are only intelligent to the extent they stroke the egos of angry white men in exchange for validation. They’re basically Jewish Holocaust denialists filling a different niche. Every “movement” needs some self-loathing individuals to “lend it legitimacy”, deprecating themselves in exchange for praise.

That’s not intelligence. That’s hatred and low self-esteem. It’s an attempt to make one’s self look more righteous by demonising one’s peers. Sure, women are pieces of shit BUT LOOK HOW MUCH MORE EVOLVED THAN THEM I AM! PRAISE ME PRAISE ME!

And the unwillingness of MRAs the internet over to criticise anything ever said by any of these women is a testament to the efficacy of their tactic.

pallygirl
pallygirl
7 years ago
marinerachel
marinerachel
7 years ago

Well, yeah, duh. One slip up and YOU’RE OUT OF THE CLUBHOUSE!