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Is A Voice for Men using phony death threats as an excuse to smear feminists and raise a quick $25k? Here’s what we DON’T know so far. [UPDATE: Hotel still not talking]

Adjusted for inflation, those 5 cent fears are now worth $25,000
Adjusted for inflation, those 5 cent fears are now worth $25,000

Is A Voice for Men using phony “death threats” allegedly directed at those planning to attend its upcoming “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit, as well as upon employees and guests of the hotel where it’s scheduled to be held, as an excuse to smear feminists and raise a quick $25,000 in donations from readers and possibly even from a handful of gullible feminists?

As incredible as that sounds, that’s what some people I respect are saying. Despite AVFM’s history of lying about alleged feminist threats – you may recall John Hembling’s infamous confrontation with an imaginary mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters – I’m not willing to go that far.

But there’s a lot about the story that makes no sense, and some big questions that need convincing answers.

1) The Doubletree Fort Shelby hotel has not confirmed that the letter Paul Elam posted on his site several days ago, and which he has now removed, actually came from them. The letter is, so far, the only evidence that there were any threats.

Hotel management needs to confirm whether or not they sent this letter to Elam.

2) Both the Detroit News and the Detroit Free Press spoke to Detroit Police spokesman Adam Madera, who told them that the police had not received any reports of death threats from the hotel. He told both papers that hotel staff had asked about hiring off-duty officers for security but hadn’t specified why.

Hotel management needs to confirm either that 1) they got death threats and didn’t report them or 2) that they got no such threats. They should also confirm whether their calls about off-duty police officers were related to the “Men’s Issues” conference.

There are a few other clues that support the “hoax” theory, though they’re far from definitive:

Several people who have allegedly contacted the hotel to ask about the threat say that the managers they spoke to knew nothing about the threats. Even if these reports are true, this may not be significant; managers may not have been told about threats related to a conference many weeks off.

The Detroit News also spoke to the owner of the hotel, and he said he was unaware of any threats. That may not be significant either; he may simply be out of the loop.

Essentially, we’re waiting for the Doubletree Fort Shelby management to answer these questions. If you look at the news coverage so far you’ll notice that the hotel staffers who can answer these questions don’t seem to be answering their phones or returning calls. I left a message for them today as well. No reply yet.

The other bits of evidence we’re waiting for? Well, the letter Elam claims he got from hotel management says that he and the other conference organizers need to send the hotel proof that they’ve hired the required number of Detroit police officers to handle security, as well as proof that they have also paid for at least $2 million in liability insurance. They have to have this done by the 6th.

In light of all the questions still swirling around, I think people are going to want to see this proof too.

It may be that the hotel comes forward and confirms that the letter was real, that the threats were real, and that indeed A Voice for Men does have to shell out $25,000 for extra security. It may even be the case that it was a feminist or a group of feminists making the threats. But we don’t know. And right now the people who do know are either not talking — or they have pretty much no credibility. Let’s hope the silence ends soon, because there’s no way the not-so-good folks at AVFM are suddenly going to turn credible overnight.

EDIT: I toned down some of the language, which I think was detracting from my main points, and added a new final paragraph.

EDIT 2:  Removed some speculation. We’ll know some of the answers soon enough; no need to speculate.

UPDATE: DOUBLETREE STATEMENT

So I’ve heard back from Atiya Frederick, the PR Manager for Embassy Suites Hotels & DoubleTree, and she’s made clear that the hotel won’t be answering specific questions about any of this just yet. Here’s what she sent me.

At this time we are confining our comments on this matter to the below statement …

Hilton Worldwide strives to operate meeting places for people from all walks of life, regardless of beliefs, race, color, national origin, religion or sexual orientation. The views of our guests do not reflect the sentiment of Hilton Worldwide. As places of public accommodation, our hotels do not discriminate against any individual or group. Our goal is to provide quality accommodations and a pleasant environment for our guests, employees and members of our community . We would like to emphasize that we strive to be an inclusive company and regret if this policy has unintentionally offended any individual or organization. 

This statement seems to be their standard response when they host a conference by a controversial group.

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Catalpa
Catalpa
10 years ago

Loons are not dangerous. Canadian geese though, those things will fuck you up.

cloudiah
10 years ago

I don’t know why the manboobzer cult believes that anyone owes them proof of anything.
However, as someone who has saved up a few pennies to go to the conference, I do appreciate all this attention, I’m beginning to feel like a superstar.

That’s okay, we’re used to MRAs basking in attention they haven’t earned and taking credit for accomplishments (building civilization! hunting mammoths!) they had no part in. Rock on with your bad self, Malcolm.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

I don’t know why the manboobzer cult believes that anyone owes them proof of anything.

Elam is accusing the feminist hivemind of participating and asking us to donate money. If he wants his claims to be taken seriously he has to provide evidence for his claims.

However, as someone who has saved up a few pennies to go to the conference, I do appreciate all this attention, I’m beginning to feel like a superstar.

LOL. This comment is the first time I’ve hear of your sorry ass. How does our usual mockery of Elam make you a superstar?

Lea
Lea
10 years ago

I’d like to see how the feminists react when one of their own is hauled off in leg irons for making terroristic threats or committing criminal extortion.

By being happy another horrible person has been brought to justice?
WTF?
How else would we feel about a guilty person getting caught making threats?

These folks do project, don’t they?

I’m beginning to feel like a superstar.

Don’t let it go to your head. People talk about beg bugs, fleas, whip worms and other annoying vermin too, when they are plagued by them.

Shoobie11
10 years ago

Has the possibility been considered that the Doubletree may have insisted they hire off duty officers out of concern for the safety of the hotel’s employees and other guests, and perhaps this death threat rumor is to save face and convince attendees that the officers are present to protect them rather than protect the people around FROM them?…

damselindetech
10 years ago

From scarlettpipstrelle’s recap of Spearhead comments:

“…I’d like to see how the feminists react when one of their own is hauled off in leg irons for making terroristic threats or committing criminal extortion”

Welp, speaking as one singular feminist (sorry the Hivemind hasn’t gotten back to me with permission to speak for All Of Us), I’d be glad they were arrested because threatening and extorting folks is illegal and fucked up. Operating towards the same or similar end-goals doesn’t give one free license to be harmful and oppressive. That’s pretty much the idea behind call-out culture (that’s the thing we’re calling that now, right?), where if one of us fucks up we point it out so that we can do better.

Ally S
10 years ago

I don’t know why the manboobzer cult believes that anyone owes them proof of anything.

You’re right, you folks don’t owe us proof. But perhaps there is a problem with your beloved activist group making shit up for the sake of their reactionary agenda. I’m just saying!

kittehserf
10 years ago

mmhm, enough with the gratuitous political potshots. People who bash Tea Partiers don’t know any. None of this was about politics til you went off on your little rant.

The fuck? Tea Partiers’ toxic, hateful shit is all over the internet. People who criticise/point and laugh at them have the TPs’ very own words to go from, y’know.

Ally S
10 years ago

Oh, and you think we’re a cult? Try saying that to victims of actual cults, jackass.

Lea
Lea
10 years ago

Remember the “WHERE YOU AT!?!?!?!” guy from the “American Spring” protest?
I predict a similar meltdown showing up online if the first ever MRA convention ever manages to happen at all.

I also predict that, like the “American Spring” protesters, they’ll make excuses, lie about their numbers and get busted immediately.

If it happens.
I seriously doubt it will.
These jerks couldn’t organize a third grade picnic.

Lea
Lea
10 years ago

I don’t know why the manboobzer cult believes that anyone owes them proof of anything.

Cult?
Uh-huh…right.

Anyway, no one owes anyone evidence of their claims. I can say the moon is a rubber ball if I like. No one has to believe my claim either. Nor do we owe them trust or charity. They poisoned that well themselves. It is a known fact that Elam is a lying sack of shit and that the MRA spreads nothing but hateful bullshit in their quest to set civilization back as many centuries as it can. We’re incredulous of claims made by this bunch, because they’ve yet to be caught telling the truth about anything.

Ally S
10 years ago

AVFM says it’s going to provide the proof when they hire the police/get the insurance

How convenient.

tealily
tealily
10 years ago

I used to be a skeptic of the theory of projection, but I’m a true believer now. I’ve seen people twist things around and project the shitty things they do on to others before, but these clowns take the cake.

As far as seeing “one of our own” hauled off in leg irons, what the fuck does that have to do with us? Unlike MRAs, we don’t take credit for things other feminists do, boys, good or bad. If your narrow little minds can comprehend the concept of “not all men”, surely, you can understand that about other groups you don’t belong to. If you haven’t advanced to that concept yet, try.

It’s amazing that needs to be explained to them.

tealily
tealily
10 years ago

I don’t know why the manboobzer cult believes that anyone owes them proof of anything.
However, as someone who has saved up a few pennies to go to the conference, I do appreciate all this attention, I’m beginning to feel like a superstar.

That’s okay, we’re used to MRAs basking in attention they haven’t earned and taking credit for accomplishments (building civilization! hunting mammoths!) they had no part in. Rock on with your bad self, Malcolm.

Lmao. Perfect.

pecunium
10 years ago

I don’t know why the manboobzer cult believes that anyone owes them proof of anything.

Because he’s telling us we need to pony up money so he can abuse us.

That’s some chutzpah. If he thinks I’m going to cough up just because he says there were death threats… he’s wrong. Yeah, I’m opposed to death threats, and I figure the MRM is as entitled as any other group to have a wank-fest, but I’m not obliged to pay for it.

And anyone who tells me I am, better have some compelling evidence to support the petition.

Since Elam, et al., have a history of making shit up… absence of evidence implies evidence of absence.

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

Where is the fund raising by AVfM to help victims of its doxxing campaigns?

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

RE: malcolm johnston

I don’t know why the manboobzer cult believes that anyone owes them proof of anything.

Dude, I don’t just hand money over to any Paypal button. I consider that healthy.

RE: J. Raven’s Star

So that’s one non-fatal shooting in over a century of feminism vs…. how many?

Well, be fair, Emma Goldman was feministish(?), and she and her boyfriend tried to kill a President. It was for class reasons, not gender though. (Also they totally failed.)

Ally S
10 years ago

I’m getting bored with jules. Here’s some good 70s disco I heard on the radio recently:

<3 her voice

Ally S
10 years ago

Wrong thread. Damn it. X_X

Argenti Aertheri
10 years ago

Pecunium — if you do decide to donate to him, your least favorite wedding gift came from Target. Though I’d be a little sad if you returned it, my gag gifts are usually, uh, not G rated.

On topic — yeeeeah, if he wants donations, he can either prove he needs them, or ask for general donations. His track record regarding blaming feminists is impressive…ly bad.

Oh and he’s over 30k anyways, so now he doesn’t need any more money and can end the fundraiser. Right?

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

Enh, I figure it’s a good dose of self-hatred crossed with, “but I’m not like THOSE women!”

Alex
10 years ago

“but I’m not like THOSE women!”

I’d been calling that “Special Snowflake Syndrome”, but I’ve been wondering if “syndrome” makes it sound ableist. Maybe Special Snowflakeism would be better.

pallygirl
pallygirl
10 years ago

Special Snowflake Status would appear to be non-ableist and gives you your third S back. I like the 3 S’s. 🙂

Alex
10 years ago

Oo, I like that! Special Snowflake Status, it is!