Is A Voice for Men using phony “death threats” allegedly directed at those planning to attend its upcoming “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit, as well as upon employees and guests of the hotel where it’s scheduled to be held, as an excuse to smear feminists and raise a quick $25,000 in donations from readers and possibly even from a handful of gullible feminists?
As incredible as that sounds, that’s what some people I respect are saying. Despite AVFM’s history of lying about alleged feminist threats – you may recall John Hembling’s infamous confrontation with an imaginary mob of 20-30 feminists brandishing boxcutters – I’m not willing to go that far.
But there’s a lot about the story that makes no sense, and some big questions that need convincing answers.
1) The Doubletree Fort Shelby hotel has not confirmed that the letter Paul Elam posted on his site several days ago, and which he has now removed, actually came from them. The letter is, so far, the only evidence that there were any threats.
Hotel management needs to confirm whether or not they sent this letter to Elam.
2) Both the Detroit News and the Detroit Free Press spoke to Detroit Police spokesman Adam Madera, who told them that the police had not received any reports of death threats from the hotel. He told both papers that hotel staff had asked about hiring off-duty officers for security but hadn’t specified why.
Hotel management needs to confirm either that 1) they got death threats and didn’t report them or 2) that they got no such threats. They should also confirm whether their calls about off-duty police officers were related to the “Men’s Issues” conference.
There are a few other clues that support the “hoax” theory, though they’re far from definitive:
Several people who have allegedly contacted the hotel to ask about the threat say that the managers they spoke to knew nothing about the threats. Even if these reports are true, this may not be significant; managers may not have been told about threats related to a conference many weeks off.
The Detroit News also spoke to the owner of the hotel, and he said he was unaware of any threats. That may not be significant either; he may simply be out of the loop.
Essentially, we’re waiting for the Doubletree Fort Shelby management to answer these questions. If you look at the news coverage so far you’ll notice that the hotel staffers who can answer these questions don’t seem to be answering their phones or returning calls. I left a message for them today as well. No reply yet.
The other bits of evidence we’re waiting for? Well, the letter Elam claims he got from hotel management says that he and the other conference organizers need to send the hotel proof that they’ve hired the required number of Detroit police officers to handle security, as well as proof that they have also paid for at least $2 million in liability insurance. They have to have this done by the 6th.
In light of all the questions still swirling around, I think people are going to want to see this proof too.
It may be that the hotel comes forward and confirms that the letter was real, that the threats were real, and that indeed A Voice for Men does have to shell out $25,000 for extra security. It may even be the case that it was a feminist or a group of feminists making the threats. But we don’t know. And right now the people who do know are either not talking — or they have pretty much no credibility. Let’s hope the silence ends soon, because there’s no way the not-so-good folks at AVFM are suddenly going to turn credible overnight.
EDIT: I toned down some of the language, which I think was detracting from my main points, and added a new final paragraph.
EDIT 2: Removed some speculation. We’ll know some of the answers soon enough; no need to speculate.
UPDATE: DOUBLETREE STATEMENT
So I’ve heard back from Atiya Frederick, the PR Manager for Embassy Suites Hotels & DoubleTree, and she’s made clear that the hotel won’t be answering specific questions about any of this just yet. Here’s what she sent me.
At this time we are confining our comments on this matter to the below statement …
Hilton Worldwide strives to operate meeting places for people from all walks of life, regardless of beliefs, race, color, national origin, religion or sexual orientation. The views of our guests do not reflect the sentiment of Hilton Worldwide. As places of public accommodation, our hotels do not discriminate against any individual or group. Our goal is to provide quality accommodations and a pleasant environment for our guests, employees and members of our community . We would like to emphasize that we strive to be an inclusive company and regret if this policy has unintentionally offended any individual or organization.
This statement seems to be their standard response when they host a conference by a controversial group.
PS: @ LBT
That last part with the pictures! Have I ever told you you’re my hero? 😉
I want the same thing in my male video game characters as LBT wants.
Even if Anita Sarkeesian had never played a video game in her life that doesn’t make her criticisms of sexist video game tropes less valid. Or mean that there are no such thing.
And, Anand, why do you take Paul Elam at his word when he said a feminist made death threats, but hand wave away the rape and death threats the red-haired feminist received as the work of “trolls?”
Why are defending Elam, GWW, JB and TyphonBlue? They’re horrible people with horrible ideas.
It’s because you’re not “neutral” like you claim, but you’re an MRA. That’s it, isn’t it? I bet that’s it.
RE: fromafar2013
Have I ever told you you’re my hero? 😉
My husband has taught me well. (Honestly, I’d rather NOBODY get sexualized in games, unless it’s specifically a porn game, but I don’t think Anand would accept that, me being a horny manbeast and all, so COCK DELUGE. Also because I’m really sick of straight boys apparently not understanding what sexualization is. A shirtless muscley dude is not necessarily sexualized. You’re supposed to want to BE the shirtless muscley dude, not FUCK the shirtless muscley dude.)
RE: sparky
It’s because you’re not “neutral” like you claim, but you’re an MRA.
Well, it’s also possible that he’s incredibly stupid and unaware of it. That’s also a possibility. That or he knows full well and is trying to lie to us, making him disengenuous. Hmm… trolling, stupid, or MRA. Which is the best choice?
Anand,
I’m not longer a fan of video games, but I was playing Commodore 64, Atari and playing arcade games back when arcades were things kids went to before you were a glimmer in your daddy’s eye. Guess what? I’ve never liked FPS. That does not mean that I was not a childhood gamer. You’re such an obvious tool. You don’t like women and go out of your way to find excuses not to believe them.
You’ve been told to go away. Clearly, you get off on coming back again and again to lie to and about women. Go get your twisted little misogynist jollies elsewhere, asshole.
Can this ass just get banned? He’s dishonest, stupid and sexist as hell.
I know a lot of intelligent people that i disagree with, so im not nessasarily defending gww or jb or typhonblue.
Actually i have lots of friends, a few feminist female friends, normal female friends, normal guy friends, one mra guy friend -_-, crazy friends etc. We rarely discuss gender politics and even when it comes up, we all agree to disagree.. Lol.
So i have one mra friend and know two mra guys who are gay. That dosent sound like a lot to me. Also, Im not an MRA or a feminist mainly because i dont do activism. I dont want to associate with any labels that can cause people to stereotype me. I’d prefer to be the lazy guy who sits back and watches the show.
Also, ive never given much thought to how guys are sexualized but i still dont think boobs=penis. But i can see now after reading all that what gals feel when guys talk about boobs. 😛
Well it’s hard to understand, isn’t it? They think that finding a woman attractive is what we mean when we talk about objectification. So… sexualisation… I don’t know, asking someone for directions? Sounds about right.
MY game genre was 90s point-and-click adventure games. Monkey Island, King’s Quest, Grim Fandango, Laura Bow. I’m also a platformer: Mario, Spyro the Dragon, Crash Bandicoot, MegaMan, American McGee’s Alice, Loved. Combat in games bores me. I want puzzles and jumping and exploration, and until I picked up Alice: Madness Returns, I’d pretty much stopped gaming for the prior decade. That said, from about 1995-2002, I was a gamer. (Well, proto-us was a gamer. You get what I mean.)
There are very strict game genres that I like, and I stick with those. A lot of people are like that, I figure. To claim that to be a gamer, you must like ALL genres or SPECIFIC genres is absurd. Also, you can dislike something and still know a lot about it; I read all sorts of awful books so I can teach myself what NOT to do! (Ask me about Piers Anthony.)
Feminists aren’t abnormal. WTF?
RE: Anand
Also, ive never given much thought to how guys are sexualized but i still dont think boobs=penis.
You didn’t ask about boobs, dude. You asked about sexualization. Cock just happened to be the easiest way to do it. You get scantily-clad women with visible nipples through their shirts, I want scantily-clad men with cocks visible through their loincloths. (Or hell, guys with visible nipples through THEIR shirts. When’s the last time anyone saw that?)
But i can see now after reading all that what gals feel when guys talk about boobs.
Nah, for that I’d have to start screaming COCK OR GTFO whenever you post.
Weirwoodtreehugger, it wasn’t intentional but just to distinguish, if it makes you feel any better i distinguished the mra friend from normal too.
I fail to see who Anand is friends with is in anyway relevant to any of the topics at hand.
And yeah, when you say something along the lines of, “these intelligent women are part of the MRM, and if they’re intelligent and women then the MRM can’t be misogynist!” you are defending them
RE: sparky
I fail to see who Anand is friends with is in anyway relevant to any of the topics at hand.
Oh, it’s just to distract us from the bullshit he’s spewing about his money going to AVFM (note he never responded to pecunium) and his bullshit about how games TOTALLY mean shooters and men are totally sexualized equally.
He is very sneaky, of course. I totally didn’t notice.
No, you were using them to defend the MRM – to claim that, despite all evidence, it’s not a movement built around the hatred of women.
Anand is tedious, boring, and blathering about his friends, which I couldn’t care less about. I feel like drowning this post in pictures of hot men (cocks optional). Who’s with me?
Piping hot men, coming up!
LBT: Yeah, my money’s on disingenuous troll at this point.
The whole “Anita Sarkeesian is a lying liar” and the whole video game conversation gave it away.
I mean, who doesn’t think Mario Bros aren’t relevant to video games?
Plus, he keeps ignoring people and topics he can’t rebut.
Sparky, im a troll and avoid topics? Which ones exactly?
+1 for hot men.
If you could aim for a few Hiddlestonian types, I’d appreciate it (my taste in mans is a bit limited) but no pressure.
I’m wondering… does Pokemon count as a violent game?
Anand: All of them.
Auggzilliary, i doubt our legal system would ever allow someone like pual elam to judge a rape case. I dont think we have to worry about him ever saving rapists in court. 😛
http://beards.provocateuse.com/images/photos/tom_hiddleston_04.jpg
http://hellokirsten.com/hottopic/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/buckangel_blog1.jpg
http://static.tumblr.com/7b80ee695ddd0cbfe734bc31b01ae424/au5ps3u/azVmlmnp8/tumblr_static_will.jpg
http://www.contactmusic.com/pics/ln/20130903/030913_gq_awards_23/matt-smith-gq-men-of-the-year_3848045.jpg
http://store.hbo.com/imgcache/product/resized/000/539/361/catl/oberyn-martell-valar-morghulis-poster-11x17_500.jpg?k=a7a15c54&pid=539361&s=catl&sn=hbo
Fuck off Anand, Joking about that scum’s rape apology isn’t fucking funny.
Honestly, i dont support anyone. I told you that i donated money that i had no use for at the moment. Even if i threw that money in the dumpster, i wouldnt lose anything. If that money is used for extra security, then its cool or if it was a scam then whatever.
I’m going to be a l33t gamer here and say that pretty much, if the person plays Farmville for a couple of hours a day, I wouldn’t consider them to be a “gamer”. I would, however, consider them to be a damn annoyance on my FB if they keep sending me app invites (seriously, why do people keep inviting family members to games on FB, or is it just my relatives that do this)?
When Ingress started sucking up my time (hey lots of walking, it’s a health app designed as a VR game), I didn’t consider I was “gaming” either.
I’m now a little lost on what I think a gamer is. However, I also don’t think it matters much, because gaming is an interest, just like knitting, or stamp collecting, or fencing, and I don’t shame people about their interests.
It’s not like being a “gamer” means that the person is better than others, all things considered.