Well, you have to admit, he’s got chutzpah.
You may have heard that A Voice for Men is sponsoring what it calls the First International Conference on Men’s Issues later this month in Detroit, featuring such notable celebrity speakers as “internationally recognized writer, lecturer and videographer” Karen “Girl Writes What” Straughan, “former mental health professional” Paul “Boy Yells A Lot” Elam, Warren “Boys Aren’t Hurt By Incest a Lot” Farrell, and, well, a collection of other equally exciting names.
But there have been some doubts about it happening from the start. It took some time for the AVFMers to sell enough tickets to enable them to cover the costs of the event.
And now it the costs of the event are going up further: according to a letter that Elam has posted to his site, the hotel that will be hosting the conference has gotten “numerous calls and threats” of a violent nature because of the conference, and is demanding that AVFM cover the costs of additional security at the event.
So Elam has decided that feminists should pay some of these costs, in order to prove they’re “not like that.”
The death threats from feminists, in the attempt to silence these esteemed speakers, has resulted in the conference incurring tens of thousands of dollars in additional security costs.
We plan on launching a fundraiser tomorrow to address those needs, but I want to give the feminists who stand by free speech and assert decisively that these thugs do not represent what feminism is about, to have an early shot at helping us address the gender issues that impact men and boys in an open forum.
He’s even set up a special Paypal button “for feminists only.”
Excuse me?
Let’s be clear here: Death threats are bad. Other sorts of threats are bad. Harassment is bad. Shutting down talks given by people you don’t like is bad. Whoever made the threats against AVFM’s conference, feminist or not, deserves to be prosecuted.
But as someone who has never promoted violence or threats of violence or any form of harassment aimed at MRAs, and who has in fact spoken out against this on numerous occasions, I’m not actually responsible, even indirectly, for the threats against AVFM’s conference. (I haven’t even written about the conference before.) And neither is any other feminist who’s “not like that.”
Indeed, the idea that we should bankroll AVFM’s conference is a bit like asking anti-racist activists to fund a KKK rally because someone or other sent threats to the Klan.
AVFM, as I have documented rather throroughly, is a hateful organization motivated by a deeply misogynistic ideology. Its rhetoric is consistently threatening, designed to intimidate opponents into shutting up and going away. Elam himself — the master of the not-quite-legally actionable threat — once famously told one opponent that
I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection. …
Your only real hope is to keep your mouth shut and pretend AVfM and register-her.com does not exist for as long as you can. …
We are coming for you … .
It’s a group whose main form of “activism” has always been harassing individual women; indeed, the Register-Her.com sitte referenced in the above quote (currently offline and being rebuilt) was a phony “offenders registry” that posted the names and some of the personal information of AVFM’s female enemies alongside profiles of serial killers and sexual abusers. AVFM seemed to make a special point of picking vulnerable targets, often college students, evidently feeling that these women would be easier to intimidate.
AVFM has tried to destroy the lives and livelihoods of numerous other enemies, in at least one case through allegedly illegal means.
The site has also participated enthusiastically in misogynistic internet hate-orgies directed at outspoken women like Rebecca Watson and Anita Sarkeesian, women who received and who are still receiving numerous violent threats of rape and murder.
On one occasion, joining up with a hate campaign already heavily populated with white supremacists, Elam targeted a recent college grad for allegedly boasting on her blog that she’s been actively discriminating against white men in her job at the Georgetown Admissions Office. The blog was an obvious hoax and the woman in question had nothing to do with it. Even former KKK leader David Duke realized this before Elam did.
And we can’t forget that AVFM hosted a terrorist manifesto in its activism section for several years, written by Thomas Ball, a Men’s Rights Activist who hoped that his dramatic suicide – he burned himself to death on the steps of a courthouse – would inspire other MRAs to start firebombing courthouses and police stations.
So boys, we need to start burning down police stations and courthouses. … the dirty deeds are being carried out by our local police, prosecutors and judges. These are the people we pay good money to protect us and our families. And what do we get for our tax money? Collaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War. All because they go along to get along. They are an embarrassment, the whole lot of them. And they need to be held accountable. So burn them out. …
You need to flatten them, like Wile E. Coyote. They need to be taught never to replace the rule of law. BURN-THEM-OUT!
(Emphasis mine.)
AVFM finally removed the manifesto from its “activism” section shortly after the Boston Marathon bombing brought the issue of domestic terrorism back into the limelight. But the site still hosts numerous articles glorifying the author of this manifesto.
Oh, and those associated with AVFM are not above harassing their male critics as well. I get a lot of weird, creepy and threatening emails and comments. It’s rare that the senders are dumb enough to do it under their own name. But that was the case with a creepy and threatening voicemail message I received at 1:38 AM one winter night from a longtime AVFM fan and tireless poster-paster that Elam once described as a “One Man Army” and “an MRA’s MRA.”
And this is the organization that expects feminists like me to pay for its security costs?
I don’t think so.
Another thought: fake death threats are a way to drum up attention and, thus, attendance.
Yeah, that “we respect your commitment to moving forward” line was pretty fishy, too. Although it’s possible the Hotel owner/manager (not sure how that franchise works) is an MRA and/or has bought their “equality” line.
Whoops, semi-ninja’d by Tealily!
Quite a few of the folks involved in the protest have called the hotel to ask about these supposed threats. None of the management will admit to any threats made, some denying any threats have been made.
If the event fails to launch, watch them blame feminists rather than lack of interest.
“…MRA’s always condemn threats…”
I have literally never seen an MRA condemning any legitimate threat. I have seen them *pretend* they were threatened and condemn that shitthatneverhappened threat. I have seen them make threats. I have never seen them actually threatened or actually taking legitimate threats against anyone else seriously.
Just to clarify my previous comment, I realize that quote is taken out of context and that no one here is suggesting any such thing.
Just so long as it’s not liquid gold.
I just laundered my linens so I have a large amount of colorful dryer lint threaded with a generous helping of golden retriever fur to contribute.
If I clean out my backpack I could add some furry cough drops, ticket stubs, a few battered Jack Chick tracts, & dried up pens.
I will wait to see how things shake out with this, but for me the letter is not passing the smell test. Anecdata only, but like other commenters I have some experience with organizing small to large scale events and this exchange seems off.
I also condemn threats made against anyone.
The commercial liability insurance of $2,000,000 seems remarkably low. I’d have expected another 0 on the end of that, at a minimum.
Isn’t that what they called their last bullshit conference that all of like 12 people showed up to? Such creative, very inventiveness. Wow.
And yeah, I’m getting a fake-as-hell vibe off that letter; it doesn’t seem consistently written, based on the transcript above.
As far as the composting goes, I have a bunch of used teabags sitting around, some nasty hankies (allergies, bluh), and a couple used-up nitrogen-absorbing packets from the fridge, which I hear are great for plants. Also, we’re just finishing up pulling stuff out of boxes from our move, so I will graciously volunteer a box to put all this bounty in.
I tend towards thinking the letter from Doubletree is genuine, just because it would be too easy for someone with journalistic credentials to find out the truth (or didn’t they think of that?)
My doubts centre more on who actually made the threats, and I’m pissed at how easily so many guys on their blogs just say “Feminists did it!” without a shred of proof or a modicum of doubt.
Katz — I am so glad I wasn’t drinking anything when I read that!
Yeah, some friends and I priced out the rough costs to put on a week-long campus-wide sex-ed event at our university a few years ago (I wanted to call it Sexapalooza; sadly it never happened), and IIRC, we would have needed roughly $2 mil liability insurance coverage just to have a sack race.
Oh, I can, of course, donate quantities of fish shit for composting. Not as much as a month ago though. The Fluval finally died and had to be replaced and DEAR GODS did the new one suck out massive quantities of poop its first few days.
Which my idiot father didn’t want me dumping on the lawn because it’d kill it…huh?
Oh wait, fuck, I don’t know why I said I wanted to call it Sexapalooza; someone else wanted to call it that. I wanted to call it Sextravaganza! (Shhh, this is important to me.)
Has anyone that has spoken to the hotel written up a detailed account of the conversation or anything? I’d love to hear their version of the situation. Although I suppose they might not be able to discuss the particulars for privacy reasons.
I’m tempted to call the hotel and check if this whole thing is even booked at all, but the people who work there have real jobs to do and I’d feel bad bothering them.
I can donate loads of empty cat-food cans.
Semi-off-topic (maybe) but I see on Twitter Dean Esmay is attacking David for defending child porn. Where is he even getting that? What kernel of anything other than thin air does that come from? I understand David is accused of child abuse because feminism *is* child abuse according to Dean or whatever, but WTF is this child porn thing?
The dogs ate a small portion of “Jingo” and part of one of my favourite shoes. I can probably part with the remains.
grumpycatisagirl
There was this one male feminist who was accused of collecting child porn on his computer or something but I forgot his name. Since then they have this idea that every single male ally is a child porn fanatic.
Well, that logics about the least out of anything I’ve ever heard in my life.
MRA logic.
The name is Kyle Payne. Reading about what he did it really seems like he’s the opposite of a feminist but anyway.
“Whoever made the threats against AVFM’s conference, feminist or not, deserves to be prosecuted.”
To be fair, they might only exist in his head.
Completely agree death-threats are not acceptable under any circumstances. Civilized people find better ways to express their disagreement with a conference, a speaker, or someone who posts something on the internet.
Having said that, I am officially calling shenanigans.
Thing one: As someone who has both liberated a fair amount of stationary from hotels and has helped organize conferences at hotels, I can see some glaring problems. First and foremost, that stationary is the kind found hotel rooms for guests to use. It basically marketing the hotel gives you to say: “Look friends! I am staying at the DoubleTree! In fancy Deee-troit City! Woo Hoo! Don’t you wish you were here?”*
Correspondence from the hotel itself will include – in the letterhead – the business address of the hotel (as opposed to the address they tell guests to come to), the department the letter is coming from and most likely the the actual name, title, direct phone number and email of the person sending the letter.
Thing two: In a case like this, a letter would not have been the first form of communication. It would have been a phone call from the personal handling account, who at this point would have a personal relationship with Elam — or one of those weirdly fakey personal business relationships sale folks love to create. in that phone call, they would have hashed out the details of the problem and proposed solution. In part because as presented it is a dicey situation. And in part because they don’t want people do so what Elam just did (in theory) — get ticked off and post the letter for all to see and get enraged over. They want to had the hard talk in a non-reproducible medium. Then, when the crying and screaming and blaming is over, they will send a letter with lots of “as we discussed in out June 1 phone call …” and it would refer to the amended contract, which would likely be attached.
Thing three: The DoubleTree was a class act when I worked with them. I doubt they would hire someone with the same over-blown yet vague writing style Elam uses and the same problem with not knowing what woulds should and should not (Two Million) be capitalized in the middle of a sentence.
*Well, that’s what I do with it anyway.