Well, you have to admit, he’s got chutzpah.
You may have heard that A Voice for Men is sponsoring what it calls the First International Conference on Men’s Issues later this month in Detroit, featuring such notable celebrity speakers as “internationally recognized writer, lecturer and videographer” Karen “Girl Writes What” Straughan, “former mental health professional” Paul “Boy Yells A Lot” Elam, Warren “Boys Aren’t Hurt By Incest a Lot” Farrell, and, well, a collection of other equally exciting names.
But there have been some doubts about it happening from the start. It took some time for the AVFMers to sell enough tickets to enable them to cover the costs of the event.
And now it the costs of the event are going up further: according to a letter that Elam has posted to his site, the hotel that will be hosting the conference has gotten “numerous calls and threats” of a violent nature because of the conference, and is demanding that AVFM cover the costs of additional security at the event.
So Elam has decided that feminists should pay some of these costs, in order to prove they’re “not like that.”
The death threats from feminists, in the attempt to silence these esteemed speakers, has resulted in the conference incurring tens of thousands of dollars in additional security costs.
We plan on launching a fundraiser tomorrow to address those needs, but I want to give the feminists who stand by free speech and assert decisively that these thugs do not represent what feminism is about, to have an early shot at helping us address the gender issues that impact men and boys in an open forum.
He’s even set up a special Paypal button “for feminists only.”
Excuse me?
Let’s be clear here: Death threats are bad. Other sorts of threats are bad. Harassment is bad. Shutting down talks given by people you don’t like is bad. Whoever made the threats against AVFM’s conference, feminist or not, deserves to be prosecuted.
But as someone who has never promoted violence or threats of violence or any form of harassment aimed at MRAs, and who has in fact spoken out against this on numerous occasions, I’m not actually responsible, even indirectly, for the threats against AVFM’s conference. (I haven’t even written about the conference before.) And neither is any other feminist who’s “not like that.”
Indeed, the idea that we should bankroll AVFM’s conference is a bit like asking anti-racist activists to fund a KKK rally because someone or other sent threats to the Klan.
AVFM, as I have documented rather throroughly, is a hateful organization motivated by a deeply misogynistic ideology. Its rhetoric is consistently threatening, designed to intimidate opponents into shutting up and going away. Elam himself — the master of the not-quite-legally actionable threat — once famously told one opponent that
I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection. …
Your only real hope is to keep your mouth shut and pretend AVfM and register-her.com does not exist for as long as you can. …
We are coming for you … .
It’s a group whose main form of “activism” has always been harassing individual women; indeed, the Register-Her.com sitte referenced in the above quote (currently offline and being rebuilt) was a phony “offenders registry” that posted the names and some of the personal information of AVFM’s female enemies alongside profiles of serial killers and sexual abusers. AVFM seemed to make a special point of picking vulnerable targets, often college students, evidently feeling that these women would be easier to intimidate.
AVFM has tried to destroy the lives and livelihoods of numerous other enemies, in at least one case through allegedly illegal means.
The site has also participated enthusiastically in misogynistic internet hate-orgies directed at outspoken women like Rebecca Watson and Anita Sarkeesian, women who received and who are still receiving numerous violent threats of rape and murder.
On one occasion, joining up with a hate campaign already heavily populated with white supremacists, Elam targeted a recent college grad for allegedly boasting on her blog that she’s been actively discriminating against white men in her job at the Georgetown Admissions Office. The blog was an obvious hoax and the woman in question had nothing to do with it. Even former KKK leader David Duke realized this before Elam did.
And we can’t forget that AVFM hosted a terrorist manifesto in its activism section for several years, written by Thomas Ball, a Men’s Rights Activist who hoped that his dramatic suicide – he burned himself to death on the steps of a courthouse – would inspire other MRAs to start firebombing courthouses and police stations.
So boys, we need to start burning down police stations and courthouses. … the dirty deeds are being carried out by our local police, prosecutors and judges. These are the people we pay good money to protect us and our families. And what do we get for our tax money? Collaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War. All because they go along to get along. They are an embarrassment, the whole lot of them. And they need to be held accountable. So burn them out. …
You need to flatten them, like Wile E. Coyote. They need to be taught never to replace the rule of law. BURN-THEM-OUT!
(Emphasis mine.)
AVFM finally removed the manifesto from its “activism” section shortly after the Boston Marathon bombing brought the issue of domestic terrorism back into the limelight. But the site still hosts numerous articles glorifying the author of this manifesto.
Oh, and those associated with AVFM are not above harassing their male critics as well. I get a lot of weird, creepy and threatening emails and comments. It’s rare that the senders are dumb enough to do it under their own name. But that was the case with a creepy and threatening voicemail message I received at 1:38 AM one winter night from a longtime AVFM fan and tireless poster-paster that Elam once described as a “One Man Army” and “an MRA’s MRA.”
And this is the organization that expects feminists like me to pay for its security costs?
I don’t think so.
Unless I missed something, law enforcement does not seem to be involved here at all. That’s suspicious as all hell.
Maybe they’re mistaking the threat of protest for death threats?
OT: dick pic guy is still sending me messages. Am tempted to bust out my Rabbit and show him what a good dick pic looks like.
Re, donations: I suppose I shoud keep my unsealed tampon out, if we’re composting. It would soak up the nutrients. Perhaps if we had a separate box for absorbant donations so they can soak up their man tears with something?
For those curious, a transcript of the infamous letter:
May 29, 2014
Mr. Paul Elam
A Voice for Men
Houston, TX _
Re: Quick Confirmation Agreement – Revised between A Voice for Men (Group) and Fort Shelby Hotel Master Tenant lLC (tlOwner”) regarding the event contracted from June 26-29, 2014 at the Doubletree Suites by Hilton Detroit Downtown – Fort Shelby (the “Agreement”).
Dear Mr. Elam:
Regarding the International Conference on Men’s Issues scheduled at OUf hotel, the DoubleTree Suites by Hilton Detroit Downtown – Fort Shelby, we have received numerous caUs and threats and are concerned for the safety and well-being of our employees, our guests and your attendees. The threats have escalated to include death threats, physical violence against our staff and other guests as well as damage to the property. The callers have indicated that they will be stationed within the hotel as guests,which raises our level of concern.
We take these threats seriously and for the protection of our staff and guests, Under Section 8 of the Agreement, we may require you to provide, at your expense and in our discretion, adequate security in light of the nature of your Event. Based upon the nature of these threats, we have determined that adequate security measures include the engagement of the Detroit Police Department (DPD) to secure the building. Based upon the number of access and egress points we will require 2 Detroit Police officers in the lobby and 3 officers on the meeting room floor, each on a 24 hour basis. As the threats include accessing the guests floors another 3 officers on the guest floors on a 24 hour basis. This is a minimum of 7 officers at all times, 24 hours a day but could increase based on further threats or circumstances that warrant the addition of security.
As noted in Section 8, the cost associated with this enhanced security is the responsibility of the Group and the Group must provide us with proof and evidence of such security being engaged.
Accordingly, you will need to contact and contract directly with the DPD for such services. Such contract must be a firm commitment with no contingencies. Once you have contracted with the OPO, we require a copy of the signed contract for our files. –
In addition, the Section 19 of the Agreement requires you to Commercial General liability Insurance with limits not less than Two Million US dollars ($2,000,000 US) with the Hotel and “Hotel Indemnified Parties” added as additional insured under all applicable polices (in addition to the other requirements under Section 19).
In light of the upcoming announced protests in advance of your meeting and the need for advance planning, we must receive (1) confirmation and a copy of the contract with DPD and {2} evidence of insurance in accordance with Section 19, induding additional insured status by no later than June 6, 2014 for your event to proceed.
We also remind you of your obligations under the Agreement to control the conduct of your event (Section 9 of the Agreement). Accordingly, we will ask the assistance of the Group and your attendees to abide by any security measures we deem necessary as we move closer to the event date and to participate in your actions to minimize the disruption to the hotel’s business.
While we understand your commitment to move forward with this event, I am sure you will agree that the safety and well-being of your attendees, other guests and our staff cannot be taken lightly.
Sincerely,
Interesting to note that he hotel is at bad at maths as AVfM – surely
is not 7 but 8 officers …
Re: Donations
Looks like I have a semi-broken sparkly red hair lacky (it came free with yummy pasta sauce), some used staples, and a this weird 500 yen coin the vending machine won’t accept.
The problem is, I wanted to save that for my friend who collects coins. But … my friend is a guy, so if I don’t give him the coin I am misandrist and if I don’t give Paul the coin I am misandrist. WHAT DO I DO?????
Totes awesome friend … angry misogynist … totes awesome friend … angry misogynist … choices, choices.
I also have four boxes of past due date natto. I would post them, but given how stinky they are now, they would probably evolve by the time they arrived. I couldn’t do that to Detroit.
@Argenti Aertheri
I have a black scrunchy somewhere but the elastic is going … so it would probably have to be artistically draped over a sex toy as opposed to fitting snugly around it. The pasta sauce hair lacky could work … it isn’t so wide but it still has some elastic and is very sparkly.
@Peter
We have been getting at maybe two ableism trolls a day, and all of them get told why they are jerks at length. You were a jerk for pretty much all the same reasons. If you had been reading the comments here for even one day you would know ableism was a thing.
Ok, I am posting now as this thread moves fast.
And can I just add:
I condemn this utterly. Threats of death, violence and damage to property are horrendous and, regardless of how I may feel about AVfM, I am appalled by the people doing this.
@titianblue
basic math lol
What do we expect from avfm?
it’s totally made up
the death threats, if any, were made by mras themselves
@Shaun Day – any noncompostables can go into the reward fund David mentioned earlier in the thread. Every little bit counts!
Composting jokes aside, +1 to what titianblue said.
flying mouse, thank you. I was getting worried about my contribution.
Also “Mouse” is what I started calling my now 4 year old when she was a 1 day old.
We put on Vagina Monologues ages ago and in order to get the venue we wanted we had to purchase SOOOOO much insurance. It wasn’t because there had been threats*. It was because everyone who rents that venue has to pay for insurance. It’s standard. We were able to afford it thanks to staff volunteering their time and skills, fundraisers we organized and worked and some very generous supporters. It took alot of work and owing / calling in favors to pull it off. Even though we were a small group, we were dedicated. I don’t think for a second that MRAs have anything close to the same work ethic or skill set to pull a similar event off.
I can easily see them calling in threats themselves, much like the false rape accusation campaign they orchestrated. It would both both put money in Elam’s pocket and have an excuse for failing yet again to hold their “first ever” conference. Butthen, I can cut a paste together a letterhead with ease, so that’s what I’m betting Elam has done. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. When MRAs are involved, I always assume they took the laziest possible course of action.
*We were threatened with protest, but sadly, it never happened. Hubby had promised to put on a giant vag costume and dance among them if they showed. We also planned to serve protesters coffee and lemonade. That’s how feminists fight back: by laughing at you and helping you stay hydrated.
I just finished reading how AVfM went after VlietTiptree (as David linked to above) and I’m appalled by what AVfM thinks are acceptable actions. I have no confidence at all in AVfM’s integrity.
AL3H, clearly you should send the coin to Danny Devito and tell him you got it as change, thus destroying the integrity of his coin collection, and thereby spreading out the misandry as far and wide as possible.
What is the likelihood that there will be protestors at the event in Detroit? Detroit has a few Universities, but I don’t recall any student-run protests about anything that were ever big enough to make the evening news. I grew up nearby. Detroit is more of a racism issues/workers/union protest city. Hell, has the AVFM conference even made the news? Seems like a few of my Facebook friends would have brought it up by now.
The infamous Warren Farrel protest took place at that Canadian university that has a reputation of big protests. They were the ones who blocked the doors at the Ann Coulter presentation, no? I always figured the reason Elam held that pointless protest in Toronto was to try and rouse some box-cutter wielding feminists out for a confrontation. But nobody showed up except an obscure LBGT rights group.
I’m willing to believe that the death threats are real (or at least, if the hotel wasn’t getting threats before, they’re getting them now) because it’s certainly possible (and 100% reprehensible), although we know Elam sees nothing wrong with making false allegations against anyone he dislikes. Seems like the quickest way to find out what’s really going on is to contact management at the hotel. If it turns out he’s lying, though, he’s just going to claim it was “satire”, because he doesn’t know what the word means.
Absolutely! If these threats are real and not another made up ebil from teh feminisms brought to you by Paul Elam and his band of angry pecker gnats, the people who issued them are repellent. You don’t fight threatening violent assholes by being threatening violent assholes. It’s morally wrong and seriously misguided.
There was a petition. It was possible to peacefully protest the hotel hosting this conference and that’s exactly what alot of feminists, including myself, did. That’s how you do activism, not by threatening people, the way AVfM operates. If there are feminists responsible for this, they should fess up, apologize and get their shit together.
So Peter LaCroix is our new boring troll. Can he spice it up a little?
Google it.
I’m inclined to believe it’s bullshit. Edmonton’s first SlutWalk was contacted by the police with a bill for their theoretical services, not by the venues we were using. Although the venues did, days prior to the event and weeks after the event had been planned, without warning, suddenly demanded an outrageous amount of insurance.
Lea – I know some organizers of a major kink event in my area, and:
a) They have to put up a bazillion dollars of insurance, no threats involved and not even really related to the kink stuff, just because it’s a large event so there’s risks like attendees tripping and breaking an ankle and filing a lawsuit.
b) They’ve been repeatedly denied venues for being an “adult” event, again, no threats involved. Hotel managers can–and do!–say “I don’t like the look of you guys and what if this hurts our business’s reputation?” and cancel the event.
This makes me awfully skeptical that a hotel manager would get death threats (against staff! and random other guests! what the hell) and say “just hire some cops! the show must go on!”
I, too, strongly condemn any and all threats. Regardless of what you think of the assbutts, threats and violence are never okay.
Okay, so I just wanted to say I <3 you mammotheers so much – the first page of this thread is pure gold.
Also from the first page: CAFE had to cancel their E-day thing because the venue they were going to use found out what they're actually up to and that it has nothing to do with equality, and cancelled. So are now arranging another E-day thing, only some of the bands have withdrawn after finding out that CAFE really, actually and shocking isn't about equality.
For more news on the CAFE thing (and how they CERTAINLY are not involved with AvfM, the very suggestion! they deny it vehemently), see http://www.nowtoronto.com/news/story.cfm?content=198263
Some AVfMers pitch up in the comments, there's an interview with the CAFE people, some prominent guy tries to make people think he's not involved when apparently he is (and apparently the person being interviewed is his fiance), it's all good fun.
AL3H — hmm, maybe tie the two together or something?
If we need dry composting material, oh boy is there plenty in my BF’s yard! My father and brother cut down a couple random trees, all the twigs are up for grabs (the logs are my father’s in payment for the work)
As for LaCroix, I see that name and my brain jumps to “Prince Pain in the Ass” thanks to VtM:B
I join in the condemnation of the death threats, assuming they’re real. Although I suppose I also condemn them if they’re fake, but for a very different reason.
I wish there was also a way to make the internet notice that, when violent threats are leveled against MRAs, feminists (even ones who are too busy engaging in mockery to worry about sounding nice) condemn the threats. Yet when violent threats are leveled against feminists, MRAs *may* grudgingly admit it’s wrong, but ultimately insist the feminists deserve or invited it.
That seems pretty telling to me.
I too condemn the death threats, and furthermore would like to clarify that we are not actually mailing anyone a box of garbage, in case that was somehow an actual concern.
AL3H, personally I say your coin situation is a win/win – misandry occurs no matter what happens, so you might as well make a friend happy, too.
Also, the natto would probably make a really good compost addition, but you’re right that it might achieve self-awareness on the trip. Gonna have to think on that one.
@Shaun Day – aww 🙂 My little one was “Bean” when she was small, nicknamed so by my best friend. Now that she’s older (6) she’s decided she wants to actually be called by her given name, though. A strident feminist in the making, that one.
Sadly, Cliff Pervocracy is correct. Even if we were having such a collection IRL, I’m sorry to say that I am way too selfish a gardener to let all those excellent composting materials go to the AVfM. I’d probably give them to the community garden in the next town over instead.
I’m willing to bet the misters’ new project is to try to portray feminists as just as violent and dangerous as they are, so close on the heels of the Rodgers massacre and to try to turn that into dollars. I notice that he’s still trying to get people to buy tickets. How he thinks they are going to raise “tens of thousands” supposedly for security when they clearly don’t have that great of a turnout is beyond me.
“If” there have been any threats sent to the hotel, I doubt they came from feminists. It’s more the misters speed.