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A Voice for Men's Threatener-in-Chief Paul Elam demands that feminists pay security costs for his group's conference

Paul Elam, Man of Peace
Paul Elam, Man of Peace

Well, you have to admit, he’s got chutzpah.

You may have heard that A Voice for Men is sponsoring what it calls the First International Conference on Men’s Issues later this month in Detroit, featuring such notable celebrity speakers as “internationally recognized writer, lecturer and videographer” Karen “Girl Writes What” Straughan, “former mental health professional” Paul “Boy Yells A Lot” Elam, Warren “Boys Aren’t Hurt By Incest a Lot” Farrell, and, well, a collection of other equally exciting names.

But there have been some doubts about it happening from the start. It took some time for the AVFMers to sell enough tickets to enable them to cover the costs of the event.

And now it the costs of the event are going up further: according to a letter that Elam has posted to his site, the hotel that will be hosting the conference has gotten “numerous calls and threats” of a violent nature because of the conference, and is demanding that AVFM cover the costs of additional security at the event.

So Elam has decided that feminists should pay some of these costs, in order to prove they’re “not like that.”

The death threats from feminists, in the attempt to silence these esteemed speakers, has resulted in the conference incurring tens of thousands of dollars in additional security costs.

We plan on launching a fundraiser tomorrow to address those needs, but I want to give the feminists who stand by free speech and assert decisively that these thugs do not represent what feminism is about, to have an early shot at helping us address the gender issues that impact men and boys in an open forum.

He’s even set up a special Paypal button “for feminists only.”

Excuse me?

Let’s be clear here: Death threats are bad. Other sorts of threats are bad. Harassment is bad. Shutting down talks given by people you don’t like is bad. Whoever made the threats against AVFM’s conference, feminist or not, deserves to be prosecuted.

But as someone who has never promoted violence or threats of violence or any form of harassment aimed at MRAs, and who has in fact spoken out against this on numerous occasions, I’m not actually responsible, even indirectly, for the threats against AVFM’s conference. (I haven’t even written about the conference before.) And neither is any other feminist who’s “not like that.”

Indeed, the idea that we should bankroll AVFM’s conference is a bit like asking anti-racist activists to fund a KKK rally because someone or other sent threats to the Klan.

AVFM, as I have documented rather throroughly, is a hateful organization motivated by a deeply misogynistic ideology. Its rhetoric is consistently threatening, designed to intimidate opponents into shutting up and going away. Elam himself — the master of the not-quite-legally actionable threat — once famously told one opponent that

I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection. …

Your only real hope is to keep your mouth shut and pretend AVfM and register-her.com does not exist for as long as you can. …

We are coming for you … .

It’s a group whose main form of “activism” has always been harassing individual women; indeed, the Register-Her.com sitte referenced in the above quote (currently offline and being rebuilt) was a phony “offenders registry” that posted the names and some of the personal information of AVFM’s female enemies alongside profiles of serial killers and sexual abusers. AVFM seemed to make a special point of picking vulnerable targets, often college students, evidently feeling that these women would be easier to intimidate.

AVFM has tried to destroy the lives and livelihoods of numerous other enemies, in at least one case through allegedly illegal means.

The site has also participated enthusiastically in misogynistic internet hate-orgies directed at outspoken women like Rebecca Watson and Anita Sarkeesian, women who received and who are still receiving numerous violent threats of rape and murder.

On one occasion, joining up with a hate campaign already heavily populated with white supremacists, Elam targeted a recent college grad for allegedly boasting on her blog that she’s been actively discriminating against white men in her job at the Georgetown Admissions Office. The blog was an obvious hoax and the woman in question had nothing to do with it. Even former KKK leader David Duke realized this before Elam did.

And we can’t forget that AVFM hosted a terrorist manifesto in its activism section for several years, written by Thomas Ball, a Men’s Rights Activist who hoped that his dramatic suicide – he burned himself to death on the steps of a courthouse – would inspire other MRAs to start firebombing courthouses and police stations.

So boys, we need to start burning down police stations and courthouses. … the dirty deeds are being carried out by our local police, prosecutors and judges. These are the people we pay good money to protect us and our families. And what do we get for our tax money? Collaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War. All because they go along to get along. They are an embarrassment, the whole lot of them. And they need to be held accountable. So burn them out. …

You need to flatten them, like Wile E. Coyote. They need to be taught never to replace the rule of law. BURN-THEM-OUT!

(Emphasis mine.)

AVFM finally removed the manifesto from its “activism” section shortly after the Boston Marathon bombing brought the issue of domestic terrorism back into the limelight. But the site still hosts numerous articles glorifying the author of this manifesto.

Oh, and those associated with AVFM are not above harassing their male critics as well. I get a lot of weird, creepy and threatening emails and comments. It’s rare that the senders are dumb enough to do it under their own name. But that was the case with a creepy and threatening voicemail message I received at 1:38 AM one winter night from a longtime AVFM fan and tireless poster-paster that Elam once described as a “One Man Army” and “an MRA’s MRA.”

And this is the organization that expects feminists like me to pay for its security costs?

I don’t think so.

 

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titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

@Pete LaCrap

Using words like mansplaining is insulting and sexist and I think that you should apologise.Did I accuse you of femsplaining? Did I insult you in any way?

Apart from insulting my intelligence with your ableism, your bullshit and your defence of rape apologists, you mean?

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

@Pete LaCrap

I guess you didn’t get the irony with my remark about Rodgers. Joke, you know haha

Irony?

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

As far as Rodgers he wasn’t even a pua just some mentally defective person with a personality disorder. There’s no way to stop people like him and we didn’t even know what he was up to until after he was dead and his “manifesto” was read. We can’t just go around putting weird people in mental hospitals unless we can prove they are a danger.You know how many weird people are around and 99% of them never do anything to anyone.And you can’t imprison a person before they commit a crime either.

Yep Petie-boy, keep reassuring yourself that extreme misogyny is “just” a mental illness, keep throwing mentally ill people under the bus to protect men’s right to hate on women, to post videos and blogs on how dreadful women are and how they deserve to die and to have police, when warned about the violence in those posts and videos, not even read the posts and videos but just accept that this is perfectly normal misogyny, nothing to see here, move along, just some man hating on women as you do, no danger at all.

TL:DR: This was totally preventable. We, as a culture, stop giving a pass to men who spout violent misogyny all over the internet with no consequences. We take seriously threats of death and violence against women (as well as every other oppressed class).

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
10 years ago

@Titian
As I said and I hope that you’re able to understand this, we can’t arrest people before they commit a crime or simply because they’re weird or have irrational opinions about certain things. We’re also not mind readers and know what a person intends to do. I hope I cleared that up for you.

“Apart from insulting my intelligence with your ableism, your bullshit and your defence of rape apologists, you mean?”

I never did that and don’t even know what ableism is.

wewereemergencies
wewereemergencies
10 years ago

Jesus fuck that picture is scary. I have nothing else to say that hasn’t already been said by others, but just. Wow. No Paul, I trust you completely. I don’t understand why anyone would accuse you of having less-than-great motives with a picture like that on the internet.

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
10 years ago

@marin
“Of course mansplaining is a disrespectful term. It’s a fucking disrespectful thing to do.”

What about femsplaining is that disrespectful too? Is it respectful to believe that you, one person among the 7 billion people on earth, should decide what is and what isn’t disrespectful simply based on your own prejudices and eccentric opinions, or that a female’s opinion somehow trumps that of a male just because you say so because you were indoctrinated into some warped philosophy and really can’t think independently?

wewereemergencies
wewereemergencies
10 years ago

@Peter
1) Did you actually read what titianblue said? I have no idea what your first paragraph was in response to, but it still managed to be condescending as fuck.

2) You actually did do that and also Google is a thing.

tinyorc
10 years ago

titianblue:

I cannot even imagine how any of the female staff feel to realise that their place of employment is asking them to work at the same place as this crew.

I had not even thought of this angle, but holy shit, you are right. If I was employed by this hotel, I would downright refuse to work for the duration of the event. I don’t think any employer could reasonably ask a woman to work in close proximity to a registered hate group who regularly call women whores, cunts and bitches and are on record arguing that domestic violence against women is necessary and beneficial.

Also, really Paul? Tens of thousands of dollars in extra security costs? That’s kind of vague. Surely the hotel gave you an exact figure? What kind of security is the hotel hiring exactly? Battle droids? Since financial transparency is so important at AVfM, I’m sure Elam won’t mind positing a breakdown of these new costs as they’ve been billed by the hotel. Also, what was the nature of these death threats? How many were there? How do we know there were feminists behind them? Why were they targeting the hotel instead of the conference organizers?

This reeks so strongly of a scam.

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

@Peter LaCrap

As I said and I hope that you’re able to understand this, we can’t arrest people before they commit a crime or simply because they’re weird or have irrational opinions about certain things. We’re also not mind readers and know what a person intends to do. I hope I cleared that up for you.

Peter, I’m sorry you suffer from this desperate need to condescend and talk down to commenters on here. I expect you’re compensating for your lack of empathy or communication skills. However, just to clue you in: Yes, you are stating really really obvious things as if they are some brilliant incite and yes, you are stating really really wrong things as if they are a widely accepted Truth.

So please stop doing that. you are stinking up the place with your crap.

And, to give you a clue by four, death threats. Actually a crime.

I never did that and don’t even know what ableism is.

How do you know you didn’t do it if you don’t know what it is? And google – it is your friend.

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

Oooh, ninja’d by Wewereemergencies. 🙂

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

Ooops ^ insighty not incite. Freudian slip?

wewereemergencies
wewereemergencies
10 years ago

Probably. That is what he’s trying to do. I don’t even know what he’s trying to say with his reply to marinerachel, but I suspect it has to do with the feminist hivemind.

contrapangloss
10 years ago

Pete, that whooshing noise you’ve been hearing?

It’s the point, sailing over your head.

Try actually reading. Also paragraph breaks are your friend. Use them.

Jaydee
Jaydee
10 years ago

I agree! I think black people should pay the full expenses of KKK meetings also.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

This new crop of trolls are really hard to tell apart because they’re all so boring and repetitive. Can we color code them or something?

wewereemergencies
wewereemergencies
10 years ago

Ooh! We could make a work of art out of trolls’ comments! It could be fun! Mammotheers, master designers!

Sir Bodsworth Ruggleby III
Sir Bodsworth Ruggleby III
10 years ago

Wow so many trolls since last week’s shooting.

It’s almost like they are somehow emboldened by what happened.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
10 years ago

I would go click the special “Feminists Only” transaction button, but my gynodollars are only valid for purchase of cat food and divorce attorneys.

Kootiepatra
Kootiepatra
10 years ago

@marinerachel:

I already proved I’m not like that.by not doing any such thing.

This. Exactly this.

Although I suppose this is fairly typical of MRA super-logix: “One feminist [allegedly] sent us a death threat. Therefore all feminists are evil, nasty, threat-making people. Unless they give us exactly what we want.”

@Peter LaCroix:

We’re also not mind readers and know what a person intends to do.

We can’t read minds, but we can read forum posts, a manifesto, and watch a YouTube video, explicitly saying what a person intends to do and who they intend to do it to. That’s how threats work (and is clear enough that they are considered a criminal offense).

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
10 years ago

@Kootie
It’s really not how threats work legally. You would need to make a Credible threat against an individual. Just writing that you want to kill all (whoever) is not a criminal offence.
“How do you know you didn’t do it if you don’t know what it is?”
I was responding to a shotgun blast of allegations not just that one. No, couldn’t find ableism in the dictionary so why don’t you just explain to me what it is.

@wewe
1) Did you actually read what titianblue said? I have no idea what your first paragraph was in response to, but it still managed to be condescending as fuck.

You know, many of you are sounding just like Rodgers with your hypersensitivity to every trivial little thing. It’s like you’re waiting to pounce on someone if they put a period or paragraph in the wrong place.
You’re also showing your racism by referring to me as Peter LeCrap.I guess it’s ok and fair game to defame someone with a French name but I bet you wouldn’t do it if my name was D’shawn LaCroix. You would walk on eggshells in that case.

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

@Peter LaCrap

@marin
“Of course mansplaining is a disrespectful term. It’s a fucking disrespectful thing to do.”

What about femsplaining is that disrespectful too?

You do know there’s no such thing as femsplaining, right? I know you’d like to point at us and go “No, you! No, you!” but this isn’t the playground. This is a blog that mocks misogyny. So, Petey-boy, you’re going to get mocked.

Is it respectful to believe that you, one person among the 7 billion people on earth, should decide what is and what isn’t disrespectful simply based on your own prejudices and eccentric opinions,

No, Petey-boy, it isn’t. So please stop doing that. However, we can recognise disrespect when it turns up here and poops on our carpet. Stop doing that, too..

or that a female’s opinion somehow trumps that of a male just because you say so because you were indoctrinated into some warped philosophy and really can’t think independently?

Hahahahahahahahah! Pauses for breath. That’s all you’ve got, Petey-boy? Standing in the playground yelling “You’re a girl so you can’t think!”? Bless.

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

Oh, Peter LaCrap, do I really have to explain that “French sounding” is not a race? But don’t worry, I’m an equal-opportunity insulter of misogynists.

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

You would need to make a Credible threat against an individual. Just writing that you want to kill all (whoever) is not a criminal offence.

So Petey-boy knows nothing about either threats (stating that you are going to go into a soroity & kill everyone there – kind of specific and credible threat, sweetie) or hate speech, then. It figures.

You know, many of you are sounding just like Rodgers with your hypersensitivity to every trivial little thing.

But yes, we’re just like Rodgers. Calling someone out because they want to brush misogyny under the carpet by downplaying its influence in a mass murder and by implying that violence = insanity; definitely the same as committing mass murder. Aren’t we the dreadful ones.

It’s like you’re waiting to pounce on someone if they put a period or paragraph in the wrong place.

And yet, strangely, all we’ve actually called you out on is your bigotry and condescension. But if you want pointers on grammar and punctuation, I can help there too…

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

PS, Petey-boy, try google. Or wiki. Or even takea peek at someone else’s Welcome Package. Cos claiming not to have found ablesim in a dictionary? Piss poor excuse.

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