Well, you have to admit, he’s got chutzpah.
You may have heard that A Voice for Men is sponsoring what it calls the First International Conference on Men’s Issues later this month in Detroit, featuring such notable celebrity speakers as “internationally recognized writer, lecturer and videographer” Karen “Girl Writes What” Straughan, “former mental health professional” Paul “Boy Yells A Lot” Elam, Warren “Boys Aren’t Hurt By Incest a Lot” Farrell, and, well, a collection of other equally exciting names.
But there have been some doubts about it happening from the start. It took some time for the AVFMers to sell enough tickets to enable them to cover the costs of the event.
And now it the costs of the event are going up further: according to a letter that Elam has posted to his site, the hotel that will be hosting the conference has gotten “numerous calls and threats” of a violent nature because of the conference, and is demanding that AVFM cover the costs of additional security at the event.
So Elam has decided that feminists should pay some of these costs, in order to prove they’re “not like that.”
The death threats from feminists, in the attempt to silence these esteemed speakers, has resulted in the conference incurring tens of thousands of dollars in additional security costs.
We plan on launching a fundraiser tomorrow to address those needs, but I want to give the feminists who stand by free speech and assert decisively that these thugs do not represent what feminism is about, to have an early shot at helping us address the gender issues that impact men and boys in an open forum.
He’s even set up a special Paypal button “for feminists only.”
Excuse me?
Let’s be clear here: Death threats are bad. Other sorts of threats are bad. Harassment is bad. Shutting down talks given by people you don’t like is bad. Whoever made the threats against AVFM’s conference, feminist or not, deserves to be prosecuted.
But as someone who has never promoted violence or threats of violence or any form of harassment aimed at MRAs, and who has in fact spoken out against this on numerous occasions, I’m not actually responsible, even indirectly, for the threats against AVFM’s conference. (I haven’t even written about the conference before.) And neither is any other feminist who’s “not like that.”
Indeed, the idea that we should bankroll AVFM’s conference is a bit like asking anti-racist activists to fund a KKK rally because someone or other sent threats to the Klan.
AVFM, as I have documented rather throroughly, is a hateful organization motivated by a deeply misogynistic ideology. Its rhetoric is consistently threatening, designed to intimidate opponents into shutting up and going away. Elam himself — the master of the not-quite-legally actionable threat — once famously told one opponent that
I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection. …
Your only real hope is to keep your mouth shut and pretend AVfM and register-her.com does not exist for as long as you can. …
We are coming for you … .
It’s a group whose main form of “activism” has always been harassing individual women; indeed, the Register-Her.com sitte referenced in the above quote (currently offline and being rebuilt) was a phony “offenders registry” that posted the names and some of the personal information of AVFM’s female enemies alongside profiles of serial killers and sexual abusers. AVFM seemed to make a special point of picking vulnerable targets, often college students, evidently feeling that these women would be easier to intimidate.
AVFM has tried to destroy the lives and livelihoods of numerous other enemies, in at least one case through allegedly illegal means.
The site has also participated enthusiastically in misogynistic internet hate-orgies directed at outspoken women like Rebecca Watson and Anita Sarkeesian, women who received and who are still receiving numerous violent threats of rape and murder.
On one occasion, joining up with a hate campaign already heavily populated with white supremacists, Elam targeted a recent college grad for allegedly boasting on her blog that she’s been actively discriminating against white men in her job at the Georgetown Admissions Office. The blog was an obvious hoax and the woman in question had nothing to do with it. Even former KKK leader David Duke realized this before Elam did.
And we can’t forget that AVFM hosted a terrorist manifesto in its activism section for several years, written by Thomas Ball, a Men’s Rights Activist who hoped that his dramatic suicide – he burned himself to death on the steps of a courthouse – would inspire other MRAs to start firebombing courthouses and police stations.
So boys, we need to start burning down police stations and courthouses. … the dirty deeds are being carried out by our local police, prosecutors and judges. These are the people we pay good money to protect us and our families. And what do we get for our tax money? Collaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War. All because they go along to get along. They are an embarrassment, the whole lot of them. And they need to be held accountable. So burn them out. …
You need to flatten them, like Wile E. Coyote. They need to be taught never to replace the rule of law. BURN-THEM-OUT!
(Emphasis mine.)
AVFM finally removed the manifesto from its “activism” section shortly after the Boston Marathon bombing brought the issue of domestic terrorism back into the limelight. But the site still hosts numerous articles glorifying the author of this manifesto.
Oh, and those associated with AVFM are not above harassing their male critics as well. I get a lot of weird, creepy and threatening emails and comments. It’s rare that the senders are dumb enough to do it under their own name. But that was the case with a creepy and threatening voicemail message I received at 1:38 AM one winter night from a longtime AVFM fan and tireless poster-paster that Elam once described as a “One Man Army” and “an MRA’s MRA.”
And this is the organization that expects feminists like me to pay for its security costs?
I don’t think so.
Plus the MRM wants to be considered a terrorist group so the government workers will have to read their sites and will thus be swayed by all the STEMlogic on AVFM. By their logic they should fear that government workers will be oppressed and hypnotized by our lady butts into taking up the cause of feminism.
Ah, but you see, as feminists we have the wrong kind of butts, which is why we’re feminists, because the butt-control power is unavailable to us.
It’s another catch-22 — feminism gets declared terrorism, they win in the obvious manner, it doesn’t? Proves that the conspiracy runs deep! The gov’n doesn’t want to help boys and men!! 11d!!!!!
Zombie aertheri, I think you’re giving them too much credit. Logic is misandry.
Hai weirwoodtreehugger, there appears to be 2 petitions; the original “declare the MRM a terrorist group” petition and now the clever MRM counterstrike petition “let’s declare feminism a terrorist group” petition.
I’m pretty sure they think it’s a counterstrike because one of the signers says so plangently
“Feminism is a hate movement, and if they can try to classify human rights activists as terrorists than it’s only fair to do the same to them.”
Could they maybe just once do something that doesn’t make them sound like petulant children? Just for variety?
But, not all eukaryotes reproduce sexually!
#notalleukaryotes
Oh lord. I’m just catching up here. I had no idea JB had hit the comments! Because she emailed me with the same shit! Except instead of starting with all that threaty stuff at the start she just launched directly into the “oh I’m so worried about this person we’re doxxing” bullshit. It was as surreal as the discussion here. I feel I need to post the whole exchange for you all.
Emma Howland-Bolton
Inbox
Janet Bloomfield
6:33 PM (6 hours ago)
to futrelle
David,
This woman could be in a world of trouble way out of proportion to what she deserves. You can mock me if you like, but if she called in those threats (and I have no evidence she did) she could be in so much trouble.
It is entirely possible that some wingnut MRA called the threats in. Either way, we would like to know. But it if it was Emma, she is in a lot of trouble.
I don’t know what you can do to help her, but whatever you can do, please do.
And yes, you can publish this should you feel compelled. But stop for one second first. If Emma thought it would be a kind of a fun not threatening no consequences thing to call in death threats to get the conference cancelled, she made grave error. Rather than grind an ax, please help her.
David Futrelle
6:46 PM (6 hours ago)
to Janet
And why are you writing me? I don’t know her, I’ve never spoken to her or communicated with her in any way. I had to google her to find out who she was. Do you have any evidence she had anything to do with this?
Janet Bloomfield
6:56 PM (5 hours ago)
to me
David,
I have NO EVIDENCE of any kind. I am just frightened for her. She posted on FB that she had a fuuuun action that required actors and a few days later we got a letter that the Doubletree had received death threats. It might have been some nutbar like Peter Nolan (surely you know him) or some other MRA calling in threats, but she went suddenly silent on the FB protest page, which i was logged in to under my own name.
If, and I say IF with a big caveat, Emma was in any way involved in those threats, she is in massively big trouble. Way more than she knows.
The hotel freaked out over the threats and wants Detroit Police there, which is fine. We have raised that money easily. But if Emma was involved in triggering that request (and again I have ZERO EVIDENCE of that) she is in so much trouble.
Let me state on the record, right here and now, that I do not support the full force of the law being thrown at protesters who may have stepped over bounds they did not truly appreciate. Even if Emma DID threaten (and I have no evidence she did) death, it was hyperbole and should be treated as such.
I am more than willing to Skype or call you to discuss this. I think Emma is in so much trouble 🙁
David Futrelle
7:42 PM (5 hours ago)
to Janet
So your only reason for suspecting her is that she’s organizing a peaceful protest against you? And that she “went silent” on her FB page?
If you’re so fucking concerned about her, why not try to get people to take down shit like this, which I found after googling her name:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lS4daVOu4GA/U4wLy73XVVI/AAAAAAAAMnA/7tK5llVCs70/s1600/Emma+Howland-Bolton.jpg
I don’t buy for a minute that you’re “concerned.”
You have absolutely no reason to think it was her. It could have been anyone. Can’t they trace the threatening phone calls?
I have never had an encounter with an AVFMer in which they did not act like an utter shitead, so I can only assume that you think I know her and that somehow by pretending to be concerned you’ll convince me to convince her to fess up … or something. But really, truly, honestly, I don’t know her. I don’t know anything about her except that she’s organizing a protest and that AVFMers hate her.
Look, my experience has been that AVFMers are compulsive liars — remember that imaginary mob of 30 feminists with boxcutters that John went on about before the Daily Beast made clear it never existed — so I don’t trust anything you all have said about this publicly, and I don’t trust you, personally, now.
Janet Bloomfield
7:45 PM (5 hours ago)
to me
david,
They can trace phone calls,
call me
can we skype?
David Futrelle <
7:52 PM (4 hours ago)
to Janet
So if they can trace phone calls, why not wait until you know who the culprit is? Why are you contacting me now to talk to me about someone I don't know? Why exactly DO you want to talk? What is there to talk about?
Janet Bloomfield
7:57 PM (4 hours ago)
to me
I guess because I'm afraid it really WAS Emma? I hope it wasn't. I really hope it wasn't. I'm intelligent enough to understand that hyperbole is one thing. Actual intention is another. I hope she is okay,
David Futrelle
8:55 PM (3 hours ago)
to Janet
Janet, you're completely transparent. I don't know her. I don't know anything about this. As far as I know Paul Elam called in the threats in a fake British accent. Gosh, I'm worried about him. I hope he's ok!
–
Oy, you karaotes, knock it off!
Ye gods, that conversation – the stupid, it burns!
It’s what someone on RS dubbed malidiocy – malevolent idiocy.
So AVfMers have chosen a random feminist to persecute on the basis that she could have been the person to phone in the threats. Because actually it could have been anyone on the planet with access to a phone so why not choose a random feminist and persecute her. Yep, that is their style of terrorism.
At this point, I’m assuming that the hotel would want additional security to protect everyone else from the conference rather than than to protect the conference itself.
Bbeaty:
“The part that sucks is that’s not a one-time choice. You have to make that choice over and over — like choosing to eat healthy food or exercise.”
You’re coming perilously close to saying that good health is something you can choose and I would both disagree with that and resent it. It means that if a person is ill it must be due to “bad choices” when many illnesses and disabilities have nothing to do with something the patient did “wrong”. That’s just another form of victim blaming.
I’ve just spent the last four years being treated for cancer. It was painful, humiliating and dangerous. I didn’t do anything wrong, I didn’t (to use the new-age parlance) do anything to “attract” it, and I get annoyed when people tell me that somehow I brought it on myself or deserved it for some non-existant reason.
Lots of people here have illnesses or disabilities and they don’t deserve to be told it’s their own damned fault!
*scratches head* WTF is this business with JB? Why would any of us contact a women we don’t know from Eve, interfere in her life, implying that she’s making death threats to perfectly innocent hotel staff with no evidence whatsoever? Who does this? Is she trying to get us roped in so she and her little friends can blame us when their plans go south, or what?
If she actually is making death threats I’d be far more likely to turn her in than try and haul her arse out of the fire. That sort of behaviour is illegal and totally unacceptable.
You know what struck me? The presumption of death threat in the first place.
If I’d read a FB page that said “we” are planning a fun, fun, fun protest – I’d instantly think that someone had 30 friends with sewing machines. And they were going to knock out a coupla dozen steampunk-clown outfits or teddybear-pirate costumes or all those hats from the Ascot Opening Race scene from My Fair Lady. Death threat. What’s fun about that? What kind of mind do you need to think of that?
Death threat. What’s fun about that? What kind of mind do you need to think of that at all?
And I’d repeat myself too.
Or needles! We could stage a knit-in!
More I read about this, the more I’m convinced it’s Pauly and his scummy little friends doing the whole thing. How to scam money from their sucker followers, try to make feminists look bad, work up an excuse for their *cough* international *cough* conference not happening, and doxx yet another woman whose existence offends them.
I’m also wondering if this alleged conference was ever going to happen at all.
You guys all know the AVfMers and their ways better than I do, but is it possible that JB is sincere and on the level and has some genuine fellow feeling for another woman who she thinks may be in trouble?
Or do you think the AVfM crew picked her because she was the best able to appear to have empathy and they think you guys have the master plan for all the imaginary feminist cells and maybe she could weasel some info out of you.
I actually thought she might be kind of sincere.
Buttercup Q. Skullpants:
I laughed so hard at this.
I agree that the email exchange and JB’s “concern” is an entirely transparent attempt to somehow get David tangled up in this whole thing so they can then screech “LOOK HE SUPPORTS DEATH THREATS!!!”
Just to recap, because I like recaps:
Assumption 1: There were real death threats and attacks against hotel staff and guests at the Detroit DoubleTree. We’re already on shaky territory here because the only evidence is an extremely fake-looking letter supplied by someone who has a vested interest in pulling a scam like this. (Money, plus implicating the “enemy”, plus face-saving if the Conference goes kaput due to lack of interest). This is further undermined in the article Auntie Alias posted, where the hotel owner and the local police department both say they have no knowledge of any threats or attacks. This is particulary odd, since JB has implied upthread that both the FBI and Homeland Security have been alerted.
Assumption 2: The threats were sent or at least co-ordinated by a feminist who is organizing a protest against the conference. There is literally no evidence to suport this at all. Another protest organizer has commented up-thread to deny that the feminist in question, or any of the other organizers, have been sending death threats, so we can’t even assume that silence (somehow) means guilt here.
Assumption 3: Other random feminists should “support” a feminist who has been sending death threats. Based on this already teetering house of cards and despite having literally no connection to the accused feminist, commenters on this blog should be concerned for her safety and rush to offer her support because she may not understand the gravity of the potentially non-existent threats which she may or may not have sent.
And with that, We have reached Stupidity Inception. Just lol. Go home, AVfM. Ur drunk.
@tinyorc
When you say it like that it just sounds silly…oh wait.
But seriously what? Just huh? None of this makes any kind of sense. There’s not even logic by MRA standards. I am so confused.
I guess I’m more concerned that based on no evidence whatsoever, the AVfMers are going to harrass, doxx and threaten someone. Randomly. Just because they can. It’s not like it hasn’t happened in the past …
Oh look, JB has invented a new form: paranoiaku.
homeland security
monitoring in the night
for the phrases “fuuuuun” and “ZERO EVIDENCE”
I wonder if JB was anxious to Skype in the hopes that she could record David saying something self-incriminating?
And what do you want to bet she’s going to post something like “David Futrelle could not be reached for comment”, in an attempt to insinuate guilt/involvement/cover up?
Holy cats, I just caught up on the hi jinx from last night (last night for me, anyway). Even as a recent delurker I know that JB has no credibility around here. So what the heck? “Here, reach out to this unknown woman who we’ve decided is a terrorist. It will harass her, hopefully make you look bad, and possibly give our ephemeral claims a sheen of authenticity.”
Um, no thanks.
Anyway, I wouldn’t even know how to contact a stranger in another city (one who probably doesn’t want to hear from me anyway). I’m not on Facebook. Which, considering that radio silence on that platform is supposed to be an admission of guilt in all things, probably means that I am the worst threat to peace, love, and the American way that has ever trod this green earth.
😀
Here’s a woman that you females should admire
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/05/26/marine_le_pen_the_new_face_of_europes_rising_farright.html
Feminism of course died years ago. What you’re seeing today is just the men who as usual have to clean up the mess left behind by females. It seems that we have to do this every few generations but things will be back to normal in a year or two and all of this psychotic man hatred will just be like a bad dream and soon forgot.
Well,to you girls who supported your President Bush in his illegal invasion of Iraq and vilified the French for not joining in just keep eating those Freedom Fries,and getting fatter, because what you’re seeing today is the beginning of the end to this insanity that began when Clinton (the rapist) was in office. Putin is more respected and popular than your President Obama will ever be and in fact he’s a laughing stock in the world.
Furthermore, stop the sexism and racism. And apparently you are not too literate here because when I said that I was of the French race I was simply using old fashioned terminology. Race merely means a group. In point of fact, I’m actually from Monaco originally where we all speak English and of course French and Italian.
I haven’t received the new version of the Femsplaining/Newspeak dictionary so you’ll have to speak standard English if you really want to be understood by normal non psychotic humans.
I also don’t want you to believe that I’m chastising every female on here, just the bitter man hating irrational ones who need to learn a lesson.Still haven’t found what ableist means and is likely just some word you pulled out of your butt because it has no meaning.We do have disabled people and since you apparently don’t know what that means I’ll explain.It is someone who is totally incapacitated and incompetent either as a result of a physical or mental condition and requires a caretaker. What most of you mean when you say disabled is incorrect, handicapped is the correct word.A person who can’t walk or do most of the things a normal person can is handicapped not disabled. Even people who have Down’s syndrome are not always disabled but merely handicapped in many cases.
I hope that you understand that but many of you appear to be pretty thick headed.
I don’t know if Peter is saying that we’re like the National Front, and therefore love Marine Le Pen, or if he finds Marine Le Pen admirable and thinks we should be more like her?
Because if it’s latter, I’m flattered. Saying I’m nothing like Marine Le Pen may be the nicest compliment I’ve gotten in a while.