Well, you have to admit, he’s got chutzpah.
You may have heard that A Voice for Men is sponsoring what it calls the First International Conference on Men’s Issues later this month in Detroit, featuring such notable celebrity speakers as “internationally recognized writer, lecturer and videographer” Karen “Girl Writes What” Straughan, “former mental health professional” Paul “Boy Yells A Lot” Elam, Warren “Boys Aren’t Hurt By Incest a Lot” Farrell, and, well, a collection of other equally exciting names.
But there have been some doubts about it happening from the start. It took some time for the AVFMers to sell enough tickets to enable them to cover the costs of the event.
And now it the costs of the event are going up further: according to a letter that Elam has posted to his site, the hotel that will be hosting the conference has gotten “numerous calls and threats” of a violent nature because of the conference, and is demanding that AVFM cover the costs of additional security at the event.
So Elam has decided that feminists should pay some of these costs, in order to prove they’re “not like that.”
The death threats from feminists, in the attempt to silence these esteemed speakers, has resulted in the conference incurring tens of thousands of dollars in additional security costs.
We plan on launching a fundraiser tomorrow to address those needs, but I want to give the feminists who stand by free speech and assert decisively that these thugs do not represent what feminism is about, to have an early shot at helping us address the gender issues that impact men and boys in an open forum.
He’s even set up a special Paypal button “for feminists only.”
Excuse me?
Let’s be clear here: Death threats are bad. Other sorts of threats are bad. Harassment is bad. Shutting down talks given by people you don’t like is bad. Whoever made the threats against AVFM’s conference, feminist or not, deserves to be prosecuted.
But as someone who has never promoted violence or threats of violence or any form of harassment aimed at MRAs, and who has in fact spoken out against this on numerous occasions, I’m not actually responsible, even indirectly, for the threats against AVFM’s conference. (I haven’t even written about the conference before.) And neither is any other feminist who’s “not like that.”
Indeed, the idea that we should bankroll AVFM’s conference is a bit like asking anti-racist activists to fund a KKK rally because someone or other sent threats to the Klan.
AVFM, as I have documented rather throroughly, is a hateful organization motivated by a deeply misogynistic ideology. Its rhetoric is consistently threatening, designed to intimidate opponents into shutting up and going away. Elam himself — the master of the not-quite-legally actionable threat — once famously told one opponent that
I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection. …
Your only real hope is to keep your mouth shut and pretend AVfM and register-her.com does not exist for as long as you can. …
We are coming for you … .
It’s a group whose main form of “activism” has always been harassing individual women; indeed, the Register-Her.com sitte referenced in the above quote (currently offline and being rebuilt) was a phony “offenders registry” that posted the names and some of the personal information of AVFM’s female enemies alongside profiles of serial killers and sexual abusers. AVFM seemed to make a special point of picking vulnerable targets, often college students, evidently feeling that these women would be easier to intimidate.
AVFM has tried to destroy the lives and livelihoods of numerous other enemies, in at least one case through allegedly illegal means.
The site has also participated enthusiastically in misogynistic internet hate-orgies directed at outspoken women like Rebecca Watson and Anita Sarkeesian, women who received and who are still receiving numerous violent threats of rape and murder.
On one occasion, joining up with a hate campaign already heavily populated with white supremacists, Elam targeted a recent college grad for allegedly boasting on her blog that she’s been actively discriminating against white men in her job at the Georgetown Admissions Office. The blog was an obvious hoax and the woman in question had nothing to do with it. Even former KKK leader David Duke realized this before Elam did.
And we can’t forget that AVFM hosted a terrorist manifesto in its activism section for several years, written by Thomas Ball, a Men’s Rights Activist who hoped that his dramatic suicide – he burned himself to death on the steps of a courthouse – would inspire other MRAs to start firebombing courthouses and police stations.
So boys, we need to start burning down police stations and courthouses. … the dirty deeds are being carried out by our local police, prosecutors and judges. These are the people we pay good money to protect us and our families. And what do we get for our tax money? Collaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War. All because they go along to get along. They are an embarrassment, the whole lot of them. And they need to be held accountable. So burn them out. …
You need to flatten them, like Wile E. Coyote. They need to be taught never to replace the rule of law. BURN-THEM-OUT!
(Emphasis mine.)
AVFM finally removed the manifesto from its “activism” section shortly after the Boston Marathon bombing brought the issue of domestic terrorism back into the limelight. But the site still hosts numerous articles glorifying the author of this manifesto.
Oh, and those associated with AVFM are not above harassing their male critics as well. I get a lot of weird, creepy and threatening emails and comments. It’s rare that the senders are dumb enough to do it under their own name. But that was the case with a creepy and threatening voicemail message I received at 1:38 AM one winter night from a longtime AVFM fan and tireless poster-paster that Elam once described as a “One Man Army” and “an MRA’s MRA.”
And this is the organization that expects feminists like me to pay for its security costs?
I don’t think so.
The problem here is the assumption that an accusation from a handful of fringe extremists is even worth taking the time to refute. AVfM stans don’t seem to realize how irrelevant their site is to most people.
Also, as I said upthread, it’s possible she hadn’t said anything because you assholes are harassing her. For some reason, people tend to lay low when a bunch of extremists who want to “fuck their shit up” start coming at them.
@LBT, oh, I remember Andy Blake! What a blast from the past! God, I wish someone had mirrored the Fandom Wank wiki before it crashed…
“AVfM stans don’t seem to realize how irrelevant their site is to most people.”
Maybe they do realize it and prefer it that way. Like a club. Although they probably got a lot of exposure due to the finger-pointing rhetoric aimed at them after the Elliot Rodger shoot up.
I don’t know what Judgy thinks her cunning plan is, but she kind of reminded me of this:
And this of course:
JB: I know this is hard for you to trust or understand, but I am concerned for Emma. She is a teacher. She may not truly grasp what she has done, if she has done anything at all WHICH I HAVE NO EVIDENCE OF ONE WAY OR ANOTHER
So we should call her with pleas to make amends for this thing you have no evidence she did?
Why should we turn ourselves into lackeys for your desire to have her harassed?
If she is silent out of fear, that is one thing. But if she is silent because she has done something stupid, surely you might reach out out her?
What if she is “silent” because she didn’t do anything wrong?
RE: emilygoddess
LBT, you did a “son of a ____” upthread, when your donate button was borked. I figured it was a slip, no worries 🙂
Shit you’re right. I’m sorry! D: It won’t happen again.
I thought it was you, hubby, Gigi and Sneak. Have I been overlooking someone this whole time?
You got most of us! There’s also my sis Miranda, who doesn’t talk so much and prefers working behind the scenes. (Also Falcon, but he’s kinda a weird case and is only here sometimes and rarely involves himself in corporeal affairs.)
God, I wish someone had mirrored the Fandom Wank wiki before it crashed…
Yeah, I missed all of it! I only just now heard about this bullshit yesterday. Eesh, with folks like that affiliated with multi, it’s a wonder anyone takes me seriously as a human at all.
Well, I just caught up on this thread from Judgy Bitch’s appearance. This is some fucked up weird shit. The hell?
Detroit has enough problems already, why do these asshats feel the need to add to them?
Gorgon is dumb.
1) No, it wouldn’t be the first and 2) again, most people don’t care much about this stuff.
LBT, I did some googling and apparently Blake is back in fandom, and a warning has been going around Tumblr.
I think it is all a big misunderstanding and the hotel is requiring AVFM to either contract their own security or pay the hotel for additional security to keep the MRAs from harming others not to protect the MRAs.
“I once saw someone tell a genderfluid person that ze could call zirself a feminist when ze was a woman, and not when ze was another gender. It was weird and kinda gross”
ō.Ó?? And what if I refuse to ever pick a binary gender now that I’ve sorted out that I don’t have to? Do I have to mind read whether I’m being read more as female or male? Or do my 4″ goth boot heels rate as female enough? Does the tie negate them? INQUIRING MINDS!!
As for JB…
Oi. So much oi.
That aside…
If I follow, there’s this Emma person, who may’ve maybe made the threats since her FB says she has super fun plans for protesting, and she hasn’t denied her super fun plans being terror tactics, and JB is concerned that if she made the threats she doesn’t know how serious that is so we should help her?
1) there’s this Emma person = factually true
1b) no one here seems to know her = inferred from thread
2) her FB references super fun plans = I assume this one is also true, but can’t be arsed to check.
3) JB thinks these plans may mean she sent the threats = stated upthread, ergo true
4) Emma hasn’t denied it = OHAI IT’S A FALLACY! But pecunium covered that already.
5) JB says she’s concerned = also stated by JB
6) this concern is because if she made the threats… = an if based on conjecture and a fallacy
6b) she may not know how serious they are = possibly true, if she made the threats, see 6
7) we should reach out to her = …WHY?!
Even if we grant 1-6b as being factually true to the fullest extent possible, why in the FUCK should we tell a total stranger that DHS can go after her for terroristic threats? I have plenty of issues with how the US handles terrorism, but that doesn’t mean I’m about to help some total stranger get away with terroristic threats that she may’ve made if conjuncture holds up despite being dipped in fallacy sauce.
I mean really now!
In totally random things, I found a shark fetus at an antique store, the BF says he’ll buy it for me. Not a clue where I’ll put it, but my Victorian oddities collection grows!
Ack, sorry about the teal deer.
RE: emilygoddess
LBT, I did some googling and apparently Blake is back in fandom, and a warning has been going around Tumblr.
Yup! That’s how I heard about it! (That and also both of my roommates have had dealings with people who were basically Blake-wannabes. It frightens me that apparently a lot of pluralish pagans run into these guys.)
RE: Argenti
If you’re into curiosities and ever find yourself in Austin TX for some ungodly reason, I really think you should check out the Museum of Natural and Artificial Ephemerata. It seems up your alley, and the people who run it is nice. (We went a couple times. It’s just this couple who runs it out of their house.)
So this Emma is a dangerous person because she did a sit-in at a library once because she didn’t want it to close? And she shared a letter from one of her young students saying how much the student loved the library?
Horrors.
That tingling on the back of your neck is my jealous glare hitting you though the internet.
Tell me you’ve read about the women who tried to start an otakukin cult around FFVII? TW for cults, abuse, and probably other things (it’s been a while since I read it).
Possibly, she once entered a store (hardware? stationery?) that sold box cutters.
Possibly she once entered a (hardware? stationery?) store that sold box cutters.
I hate wordpress logins.
grumpycatisagirl, maybe I missed it but did Emma even participate in the sit-in?
RE: emilygoddess
Tell me you’ve read about the women who tried to start an otakukin cult around FFVII?
Oh god, yes, I have. *rubs forehead* Like, I can’t claim any sort of superiority, my husband is basically a red shirt from a story we wrote in high school, but I believe that when you are very strange, it is all the more imperative to keep your feet firmly on the ground. When you have really weird shit going on, you HAVE to be willing to question and weigh your experiences, or… well. You get this shit.
I always feel really weird reading about these creepers, because I feel like I’m more like THEM than I am normal people. The multi, the people from fiction, the sheer weirdness. But I don’t want to be GROSS about it. I want to be a reliable, responsible human being who makes the material world a better place, and not just the one between my ears. I don’t WANT to be a creepy abusive cult leader. I just want to be a decent, boring human being.
I don’t know. It’s just WEIRD.
Hey, kiwi girl, good to see you! ::waves::
LBT, you’re not gross. Well, if you don’t count Mac’s cockjazzling. 😛
Different, even strange, =/= gross or being a creeper. For that matter, being thought creepy by people because you’re multi =/= actually doing things that make you a creeper.
Detroit is flat-busted broke. I suspect the death threats are a cover for the city saying “We cannot and will not provide you with the security you request.”
LBT,
You’re not creepy and gross at all!
OT: By Warren Farrell’s standards this is the most misandering picture to ever misandry
http://dlisted.com/2014/06/02/the-caption-this-contest-for-june-2nd/
RE: Kittehs
Hubby insists his cockjazzling is NOT gross. I shall smile and nod.
And yeah, I’m usually pretty aware of that. I don’t know, maybe it’s just a bit of brain weasels telling me, “The only reason you think you’re not like them is because you’re a delusional whackjob with delusions of grandeur, when really, you’re just some impoverished leech draining everyone’s resources.” Like, intellectually, I know that I do good things (we’re volunteering at the SPCA soon! I’m working on giving a talk on DID to a community mental health center! I write and draw things that make people happy!) but sometimes, I still feel like I’m just a creeper who’s fooled everyone.
LBT — on those limited criteria you might be more like them, but if we’re using limited criteria, pecunium is more like Hitler than he’s like his beloved, cuz cis men. By the more important criteria of, idk, are you a decent person? You’re not like them, and he’s not like Hilter.
Yes I just Godwin’ed.