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A Voice for Men's Threatener-in-Chief Paul Elam demands that feminists pay security costs for his group's conference

Paul Elam, Man of Peace
Paul Elam, Man of Peace

Well, you have to admit, he’s got chutzpah.

You may have heard that A Voice for Men is sponsoring what it calls the First International Conference on Men’s Issues later this month in Detroit, featuring such notable celebrity speakers as “internationally recognized writer, lecturer and videographer” Karen “Girl Writes What” Straughan, “former mental health professional” Paul “Boy Yells A Lot” Elam, Warren “Boys Aren’t Hurt By Incest a Lot” Farrell, and, well, a collection of other equally exciting names.

But there have been some doubts about it happening from the start. It took some time for the AVFMers to sell enough tickets to enable them to cover the costs of the event.

And now it the costs of the event are going up further: according to a letter that Elam has posted to his site, the hotel that will be hosting the conference has gotten “numerous calls and threats” of a violent nature because of the conference, and is demanding that AVFM cover the costs of additional security at the event.

So Elam has decided that feminists should pay some of these costs, in order to prove they’re “not like that.”

The death threats from feminists, in the attempt to silence these esteemed speakers, has resulted in the conference incurring tens of thousands of dollars in additional security costs.

We plan on launching a fundraiser tomorrow to address those needs, but I want to give the feminists who stand by free speech and assert decisively that these thugs do not represent what feminism is about, to have an early shot at helping us address the gender issues that impact men and boys in an open forum.

He’s even set up a special Paypal button “for feminists only.”

Excuse me?

Let’s be clear here: Death threats are bad. Other sorts of threats are bad. Harassment is bad. Shutting down talks given by people you don’t like is bad. Whoever made the threats against AVFM’s conference, feminist or not, deserves to be prosecuted.

But as someone who has never promoted violence or threats of violence or any form of harassment aimed at MRAs, and who has in fact spoken out against this on numerous occasions, I’m not actually responsible, even indirectly, for the threats against AVFM’s conference. (I haven’t even written about the conference before.) And neither is any other feminist who’s “not like that.”

Indeed, the idea that we should bankroll AVFM’s conference is a bit like asking anti-racist activists to fund a KKK rally because someone or other sent threats to the Klan.

AVFM, as I have documented rather throroughly, is a hateful organization motivated by a deeply misogynistic ideology. Its rhetoric is consistently threatening, designed to intimidate opponents into shutting up and going away. Elam himself — the master of the not-quite-legally actionable threat — once famously told one opponent that

I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection. …

Your only real hope is to keep your mouth shut and pretend AVfM and register-her.com does not exist for as long as you can. …

We are coming for you … .

It’s a group whose main form of “activism” has always been harassing individual women; indeed, the Register-Her.com sitte referenced in the above quote (currently offline and being rebuilt) was a phony “offenders registry” that posted the names and some of the personal information of AVFM’s female enemies alongside profiles of serial killers and sexual abusers. AVFM seemed to make a special point of picking vulnerable targets, often college students, evidently feeling that these women would be easier to intimidate.

AVFM has tried to destroy the lives and livelihoods of numerous other enemies, in at least one case through allegedly illegal means.

The site has also participated enthusiastically in misogynistic internet hate-orgies directed at outspoken women like Rebecca Watson and Anita Sarkeesian, women who received and who are still receiving numerous violent threats of rape and murder.

On one occasion, joining up with a hate campaign already heavily populated with white supremacists, Elam targeted a recent college grad for allegedly boasting on her blog that she’s been actively discriminating against white men in her job at the Georgetown Admissions Office. The blog was an obvious hoax and the woman in question had nothing to do with it. Even former KKK leader David Duke realized this before Elam did.

And we can’t forget that AVFM hosted a terrorist manifesto in its activism section for several years, written by Thomas Ball, a Men’s Rights Activist who hoped that his dramatic suicide – he burned himself to death on the steps of a courthouse – would inspire other MRAs to start firebombing courthouses and police stations.

So boys, we need to start burning down police stations and courthouses. … the dirty deeds are being carried out by our local police, prosecutors and judges. These are the people we pay good money to protect us and our families. And what do we get for our tax money? Collaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War. All because they go along to get along. They are an embarrassment, the whole lot of them. And they need to be held accountable. So burn them out. …

You need to flatten them, like Wile E. Coyote. They need to be taught never to replace the rule of law. BURN-THEM-OUT!

(Emphasis mine.)

AVFM finally removed the manifesto from its “activism” section shortly after the Boston Marathon bombing brought the issue of domestic terrorism back into the limelight. But the site still hosts numerous articles glorifying the author of this manifesto.

Oh, and those associated with AVFM are not above harassing their male critics as well. I get a lot of weird, creepy and threatening emails and comments. It’s rare that the senders are dumb enough to do it under their own name. But that was the case with a creepy and threatening voicemail message I received at 1:38 AM one winter night from a longtime AVFM fan and tireless poster-paster that Elam once described as a “One Man Army” and “an MRA’s MRA.”

And this is the organization that expects feminists like me to pay for its security costs?

I don’t think so.

 

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tinyorc
6 years ago

@girlscientist: And then…you know… fire the manager for being so incompetent that it didn’t occur to them to pass that extremely crucial information up the line immediately.

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
6 years ago

Are you serious? Holy fuck you’re ignorant.

Are you serious? Killed them all on two continents immediately? Every Amerindian in Canada, US, Mexico and then in South America? No one even moved to the west until 1800, three hundred years later from discovery.

girlscientist
girlscientist
6 years ago

@tinyorc: yeah, exactly!
@Peter LaCroix: La ferme!

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Well,to you girls who supported your President Bush in his illegal invasion of Iraq and vilified the French for not joining in

I don’t know about any other USian Mammotheers, but I protested the war and certainly never voted for that jackass. I have a really hard time believing anybody here was supportive of the war. Some people here weren’t even voting age during the Bush administration. That’s really quite an assumption.

Putin is more respected and popular than your President Obama will ever be and in fact he’s a laughing stock in the world.

I’m not inclined to take the opinion of a Putin fanboy seriously. Ick. Go Pussyriot!

I also don’t want you to believe that I’m chastising every female on here, just the bitter man hating irrational ones who need to learn a lesson

Is that a threat? Keep it classy Lacrap.

We do have disabled people and since you apparently don’t know what that means I’ll explain.

If you don’t know the common usage of the word disabled in English because it isn’t your disabled, maybe just admit that instead of trying to mansplain it to people who are English speakers.

Looks like Lacrap has dropped the reasonable pretense and gone on full on misogynist troll.

scott1139
scott1139
6 years ago

Because female applies to all members of that sex. Woman means just an adult. Understand, mademoiselle?

I think so, yes. Though, I’d also like you to answer auggziliary’s follow-up questions.

Also, why refer to me as ‘mademoiselle’? While I am a young adult, I’m not French and I’m not a woman.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

So if the threats never happened, that means hat the letter is definitely not genuine. Waits for AVfMers to start accusing random faminists of mocking up the letter.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

Also, why refer to me as ‘mademoiselle’? While I am a young adult, I’m not French and I’m not a woman.

Bless him, Petey-boy hasn’t quite grasped the idea that not all commenters here are women.

to you girls who supported your President Bush

Or that we’re not all Americans either.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

Oh, and Peter LaCrap, your argument of using “females” to indicate both women and girls might carry more wait if you hadn’t also called women “girls”. Ooops, that damned misogyny will keep showing itself, won’t it? So inconvenient for you.

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
6 years ago

So, let me get this straight. Petey here equates the othering “females” with the everyday “men”, letting it slip that he doesn’t think of women as people. When called out on this, he proceeds to lay part of the blame for the state of the world on little girls. Petey then proceeds to blame women for George W. Bush’s deeds, ignoring that men voted for him as well. For some inexplicable reason, Petey also blames the war in Iraq on girls, who cannot legally vote at all. He gives a strange sort of praise to Putin and assumes everyone here is American.

Also, he implies there are no men here, after there was just a discussion about men calling themselves feminists, many men giving their experiences on the matter. He continues insisting that there is such a thing as being racist against the French, and calls others illiterate. He says that there are “bitter man-hating irrational” women here, on a post discussing bitter, woman-hating, irrational men. He also says that these women “need to learn a lesson”, apparently unaware that the only ones using that turn of phrase, along with “put in their place” and “uppity”, are abusive turds.

He keeps using the word “psychotic” incorrectly. In fact, Petey-boy uses ableist language throughout his posts, insists that ableism isn’t a thing (while still failing to google it), then pretends to be an expert on these matters.

Also, shows racism, xenophobia and total ignorance of history, but equates others with the KKK. Right.

All that on first glance. Obviously, there’s a whole lot more wrong to go into.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Oh gross. I just caught up with the rest of the thread.

Eat maird you racist piece of Lacrap!

Shiraz
Shiraz
6 years ago

Wow, this sounds familar:

“I also don’t want you to believe that I’m chastising every female on here, just the bitter man hating irrational ones who need to learn a lesson.”

He must be a fan of ER. Creepers always have so many lessons to teach women.

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
6 years ago

@Titian
Putin is a good leader and Russia seems freer than the US.And btw, they don’t treat homosexuals there worse than the US.They just do not want Minors to be taught or indoctrinated into certain things and don’t believe in homosexual marriage (either do I) but otherwise you are free to do as you please.And let me remind you that in most of the world homosexuality is illegal so don’t criticise liberal Russia. Don’t believe what you see in US media because it is all propaganda.Whoever they don’t like at a particular time they just defame making up lies.No free press in US.Don’t believe what you hear on the radio because it’s a big joke. One pretends to be a conservative and one pretends to be a liberal and they just put on a show to make money and stupid people listen to them like it’s serious.Big corporations own everything and they work hand and hand with the government and politicians and it doesn’t matter which party because it’s all just a big show to make the people believe there is democracy. Elections are meaningless and it didn’t matter if Obama or Romney won because they all end up doing the same thing and fool you into believing they are different.It’s a big game.Bush wanted a war but all of the democrats vote for it too.No opposition and no democracy.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

Oh, OK, Peter, you explained your immigration views in your answer to auggziliary. You’re of the “give ’em an inch and they’ll take a mile” school of thought. I run into your type a lot; sometimes even at family reunions, from the same distant cousins who yearn for the halcyon days of the Jim Crow era. You’re in very good company.

So no need to further explain your opinions to me. I understand them all too well.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Petey then proceeds to blame women for George W. Bush’s deeds, ignoring that men voted for him as well.

The funny thing is, white men are the demographic group who vote Republican in an overwhelming majority.

With the exception of older married white women, a majority of women vote Democratic.

Sure plenty of women supported Bush, but to blame him on “females” is just ridiculous.

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
6 years ago

He must be a fan of ER. Creepers always have so many lessons to teach women.

Stop making things up.Men do have things to teach women. Perhaps you should listen and not think you know everything.

bunnybunny
6 years ago

Russia seems freer than the US

Except for internet censorship, bans on swearing in films, books, etc, limited freedom of expression and freedom of the press… are you fucking serious?

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

Petey: fuck off.

As for JB, wow. I’m fucking insulted that we’re now having to say that we don’t condone death threats, because isn’t that like the basic standard of human fucking decency? It’s because of assholes like JB that we can’t have nice shit.

JB: if you’re so concerned about this Emma person, you go handle it. Do you really think we’re as gullible as you idiots over at AVfM?

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

Putin is a good leader and Russia seems freer than the US

??? Last time I checked even Edward Snowden wanted out of Russia, and we all know what kind of a shitstorm he’s facing if he comes home.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

Stop making things up.Men do have things to teach women. Perhaps you should listen and not think you know everything.

But Peter, you’ve told us in other comments that we should never trust what anyone says online presence. We don’t know them personally, they could be anybody!

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Putin is a good leader and Russia seems freer than the US.And btw, they don’t treat homosexuals there worse than the US.They just do not want Minors to be taught or indoctrinated into certain things and don’t believe in homosexual marriage (either do I) but otherwise you are free to do as you please.

Hahahahaha! This is so stupid I don’t even need to comment on it. OK, one comment. Why is minors capitalized? Why do trolls always do that?

And let me remind you that in most of the world homosexuality is illegal so don’t criticise liberal Russia.

Citation needed. Is homosexuality illegal in most secular democracies? No it is not.

Don’t believe what you see in US media because it is all propaganda.Whoever they don’t like at a particular time they just defame making up lies.No free press in US.

I offer no defense of the American corporate media because it is crap. However, there are plenty of other news sources and even the shittiest right wing judges in this country take the first amendment seriously. Media is definitely not censored here. Also, with the magic of the interwebs we can even see media from countries. Wow!

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

Creepers always have so many lessons to teach women.

Stop making things up.Men do have things to teach women. Perhaps you should listen and not think you know everything.

Not all men are creepers, Petey-boy. I shouldn’t have to tell you this.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

“what anyone says online presence .

Sorry, gotta learn to proofread better.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

It’s funny that Peter LaCrap is so contemptuous of Americans. He sounds basically identical to American right wingers. The Ron and Rand Paul fanboy type.

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
6 years ago

Sure plenty of women supported Bush, but to blame him on “females” is just ridiculous.

Isn’t it true that women are more than 1/2 of voters? You complain about not enough women but if all women voted for women you would have the whole Congress to yourselves.You want to blame men for everything but since there are more women they could do what they wanted if they chose.You complain about women in business but shareholders own the company and I believe a majority of them are women. They could vote a woman as chairman as the shareholders meeting if they wanted to.Women own a lot and also inherit from their fathers or dead husbands like Teresa Heinz. Perhaps you should ask yourselves why women don’t trust women to be in charge.

scott1139
scott1139
6 years ago

And let me remind you that in most of the world homosexuality is illegal so don’t criticise liberal Russia.

Every country in which homosexual people are treated as lesser is worthy of criticism. I save most of my criticism for the United States, as it is where I live and the culture I understand best.

cloudiah
6 years ago

Personally, I wish everyone would stop trying to indoctrinate miners. Their jobs are difficult enough already.

bunnybunny
6 years ago

Women own a lot and also inherit from their fathers or dead husbands like Teresa Heinz.

MISANDRY!!11!

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Isn’t it true that women are more than 1/2 of voters? You complain about not enough women but if all women voted for women you would have the whole Congress to yourselves.

This old saw. You show a very shallow understanding of how elections and entrenched power work.

If it makes you feel better though, one of my senators and my mayor are women.

bunnybunny
6 years ago

Evidently men cannot inherit things and also women cannot bequeath their own holdings.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

Oooh, I’ve just realised what’s happening. Petey-boy is playing Fib’s RPG. He’s role-playing one of the Roaring Warriors of Male Voices.

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
6 years ago

The Ron and Rand Paul fanboy type.

I like both of them but since I don’t vote it’s irrelevant.At least I know that they believe what they say, and most of it is good.You just listen to US media and get a twisted view of them because the media works for the government and the democrats and republicans want to keep the power for themselves.They alternate so you think it’s a democracy.The Supreme Court is fake too. They already know how they will decide a case and then just write up some legal decision so it sounds good. A conservative judge voted for Obamacare Whether it is good or bad they’re thinking of the medical corporations and the money and how to get more money.

leftwingfox
6 years ago

Sounds like Petey’s got it all figured out. :eyeroll:

Faint Praise
Faint Praise
6 years ago

Elam redacted personal info of Hilton employees in that letter, and acknowledged the risk of publishing personal info on his site.

But they’re still doxxing. Peaceful protestors are getting doxxed. One recent AVfM article tries to make a teacher seem violent by mentioning the recent threats of violence and saying the teacher’s past protests were “criminal” (she organized a sit-in of a public library that closed down).

That’s just the beginning of their doxxing lately. Tons of facebook photos and so on, and many groups and users have had to remove their public social media as a result.

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
6 years ago

Evidently men cannot inherit things and also women cannot bequeath their own holdings.

I didn’t say that but merely pointed out that I know that women do own more than 50% of the shares. Do some research and you will learn it. All you need is 51% to control the corporation and the people you vote in as Chairman and board.

@Titian
I don’t even know what that is and I never play silly kid games or role playing.You’re thinking of nerds and pua’s

tinyorc
6 years ago

@titianblue: I think you’re right! Based on the fact that he’s flailing wildly at random targets with no semblance of a strategy, I think he might be a Berserker or Barbarian build. Not terribly accurate or fast, easy to dodge and easy enough to take down, but they do wreak a lot of havoc when you throw them into the fray.

WhatIsThisGravitasOfWhichYouSpeak
WhatIsThisGravitasOfWhichYouSpeak
6 years ago

Has anyone else noticed Petey’s new tinfoil hat? It’s all shiny and stuff

wtfdude
wtfdude
6 years ago

Wow

Peter Lacrap really IS this ignorant.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

Isn’t it true that women are more than 1/2 of voters? You complain about not enough women but if all women voted for women you would have the whole Congress to yourselves.

You just listen to US media and get a twisted view of them because the media works for the government and the democrats and republicans want to keep the power for themselves.They alternate so you think it’s a democracy.

Women make up half of the electorate, so we could vote ourselves into power. But the two main political parties have consolidated all the power, and take turns running the country to make us think that we have a democracy. So I guess those votes we have don’t count after all.

????

magnesium
magnesium
6 years ago

Well that’s all well and good, Pete, but how do you feel about chemtrails? And what of the mind control properties of fluoridated water? Does the Obamacare Death Panel accept bitcoins?

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

LaCrap is really veering into tinfoil territory. I’m waiting to hear about the Zionist New World Order next.

Also, did he just admit to being American after all?

The Ron and Rand Paul fanboy type.

I like both of them but since I don’t vote it’s irrelevant.

Why does whether or not you vote matter if you are not in the same country as the Pauls?

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
6 years ago

I always thought the white knight was a cross between knight and paladin, and mangina… I dunno, sounds sort of like a magic user. Be it as it may, I really enjoyed the D&D and Pathfinder talk there. Certainly more entertaining that JudgyLich and L’Ordre de la Croix-Rose Veritas here.

Hey, if others can make stupid D&D jokes, so can I!

Cliff Pervocracy
Cliff Pervocracy
6 years ago

The Supreme Court is fake too. They already know how they will decide a case and then just write up some legal decision so it sounds good.
…Isn’t that, like, literally, non-secretly how it works? They make a decision and then write up a legal opinion. That’s what they’re supposed to do.

Isn’t it true that women are more than 1/2 of voters? You complain about not enough women but if all women voted for women you would have the whole Congress to yourselves.
Okay, but there’s this thing where female voters are not a hivemind and female politicians are not interchangeable. Women can’t all just get together and write in a vote for “A Woman, Any Woman Really” and then a woman gets elected and serves women’s interests. There are several problems with that plan, and “women just don’t want power” is not one of them.

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
6 years ago

Tons of facebook photos and so on, and many groups and users have had to remove their public social media as a result

I’ve never used things like Facebook but can’t you just block someone and have it private.Only businesses want to have a public profile. And besides, even if they know who you are they can’t do anything to you.What are they going to do? Write something on their blog about you lol How many people do you think read these blogs?

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Petey isn’t afraid of internet people. He’s too tough for that. That’s why I’m sure he’d be comfortable leaving us his home address, e-mail address and phone number.

WhatIsThisGravitasOfWhichYouSpeak
WhatIsThisGravitasOfWhichYouSpeak
6 years ago

@Anarchonist, I always thought a mangina would be some kind of Monk, channelling internalised misandry into unarmed strikes and Fi attacks

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

Oh, don’t dial it back now, Peter. You were starting to get interesting!

me and not you
me and not you
6 years ago

Ugh. As an anthropologist I have to address this:

The invasion of the Americas by Europeans could be accurately described as a genocide. For the most part, officials did not see Native Americans as humans (in at least part because they weren’t Christian), and considered them more as animals that could either be used towards or in the way of their goals. They did not believe that the land was inhabited because many Native groups did not practice intensive agriculture – even though Native subsistence practices included landscape management techniques (one of the best documented is regular burns). Anyway, initial contact between Europeans and Native
Americans lead to a rapid spread of disease which we do not see with normal immigration. This lead to a breakdown of social structure, as entire villages were wiped out. (Let’s note this could not happen in modern states. There is enough gene flow that groups of people aren’t protected from disease. That’s why governments freak out when new disease breaks out in other parts of the world.) Now this was, for the most part, accidental, and took several decades to happen. However, conquistadors in South America, military/missionaries in the Southwest North America, and colonialists in the Eastern North America did in fact have a policy of wiping out any and all Native Americans who were not on their side. Once Europeans had a foothold in the Americas, and the governments decided they wanted to spend the effort to take over, they did. Genocide doesn’t have to happen overnight.

This is entirely unlike immigration, which consists of individuals deciding for themselves to move to another country. This was an invasion, which happens on the governmental level. Comparing immigration to invasion is … well, silly.

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
6 years ago

@WhatIsThisGravitasOfWhichYouSpeak:

Hahahaha! Channeling internalised misandry… okay, your suggestion is way better than mine. Thank you for making me laugh!

WhatIsThisGravitasOfWhichYouSpeak
WhatIsThisGravitasOfWhichYouSpeak
6 years ago

@Anarchonist
No problem! Although now I kinda want to come up with a DnD game that uses these and other classes based on MRA terminology. Man Hater being some kind of Berzerker, methinks… Damn, this is going to bug me all day now.

hookergal
hookergal
6 years ago

Watching everyone toy with Pete La Pooper Pants is like watching a cat you with a mouse. You know the outcome, but you can’t take your eye of the mouse doing convoluted flips trying to make sense and get away. ITS TOO LATE PETEY. YOUVE BEEN MAMMOTHED.