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A Voice for Men's Threatener-in-Chief Paul Elam demands that feminists pay security costs for his group's conference

Paul Elam, Man of Peace
Paul Elam, Man of Peace

Well, you have to admit, he’s got chutzpah.

You may have heard that A Voice for Men is sponsoring what it calls the First International Conference on Men’s Issues later this month in Detroit, featuring such notable celebrity speakers as “internationally recognized writer, lecturer and videographer” Karen “Girl Writes What” Straughan, “former mental health professional” Paul “Boy Yells A Lot” Elam, Warren “Boys Aren’t Hurt By Incest a Lot” Farrell, and, well, a collection of other equally exciting names.

But there have been some doubts about it happening from the start. It took some time for the AVFMers to sell enough tickets to enable them to cover the costs of the event.

And now it the costs of the event are going up further: according to a letter that Elam has posted to his site, the hotel that will be hosting the conference has gotten “numerous calls and threats” of a violent nature because of the conference, and is demanding that AVFM cover the costs of additional security at the event.

So Elam has decided that feminists should pay some of these costs, in order to prove they’re “not like that.”

The death threats from feminists, in the attempt to silence these esteemed speakers, has resulted in the conference incurring tens of thousands of dollars in additional security costs.

We plan on launching a fundraiser tomorrow to address those needs, but I want to give the feminists who stand by free speech and assert decisively that these thugs do not represent what feminism is about, to have an early shot at helping us address the gender issues that impact men and boys in an open forum.

He’s even set up a special Paypal button “for feminists only.”

Excuse me?

Let’s be clear here: Death threats are bad. Other sorts of threats are bad. Harassment is bad. Shutting down talks given by people you don’t like is bad. Whoever made the threats against AVFM’s conference, feminist or not, deserves to be prosecuted.

But as someone who has never promoted violence or threats of violence or any form of harassment aimed at MRAs, and who has in fact spoken out against this on numerous occasions, I’m not actually responsible, even indirectly, for the threats against AVFM’s conference. (I haven’t even written about the conference before.) And neither is any other feminist who’s “not like that.”

Indeed, the idea that we should bankroll AVFM’s conference is a bit like asking anti-racist activists to fund a KKK rally because someone or other sent threats to the Klan.

AVFM, as I have documented rather throroughly, is a hateful organization motivated by a deeply misogynistic ideology. Its rhetoric is consistently threatening, designed to intimidate opponents into shutting up and going away. Elam himself — the master of the not-quite-legally actionable threat — once famously told one opponent that

I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection. …

Your only real hope is to keep your mouth shut and pretend AVfM and register-her.com does not exist for as long as you can. …

We are coming for you … .

It’s a group whose main form of “activism” has always been harassing individual women; indeed, the Register-Her.com sitte referenced in the above quote (currently offline and being rebuilt) was a phony “offenders registry” that posted the names and some of the personal information of AVFM’s female enemies alongside profiles of serial killers and sexual abusers. AVFM seemed to make a special point of picking vulnerable targets, often college students, evidently feeling that these women would be easier to intimidate.

AVFM has tried to destroy the lives and livelihoods of numerous other enemies, in at least one case through allegedly illegal means.

The site has also participated enthusiastically in misogynistic internet hate-orgies directed at outspoken women like Rebecca Watson and Anita Sarkeesian, women who received and who are still receiving numerous violent threats of rape and murder.

On one occasion, joining up with a hate campaign already heavily populated with white supremacists, Elam targeted a recent college grad for allegedly boasting on her blog that she’s been actively discriminating against white men in her job at the Georgetown Admissions Office. The blog was an obvious hoax and the woman in question had nothing to do with it. Even former KKK leader David Duke realized this before Elam did.

And we can’t forget that AVFM hosted a terrorist manifesto in its activism section for several years, written by Thomas Ball, a Men’s Rights Activist who hoped that his dramatic suicide – he burned himself to death on the steps of a courthouse – would inspire other MRAs to start firebombing courthouses and police stations.

So boys, we need to start burning down police stations and courthouses. … the dirty deeds are being carried out by our local police, prosecutors and judges. These are the people we pay good money to protect us and our families. And what do we get for our tax money? Collaborators who are no different than the Vichy of France or the Quislings of Norway during the Second World War. All because they go along to get along. They are an embarrassment, the whole lot of them. And they need to be held accountable. So burn them out. …

You need to flatten them, like Wile E. Coyote. They need to be taught never to replace the rule of law. BURN-THEM-OUT!

(Emphasis mine.)

AVFM finally removed the manifesto from its “activism” section shortly after the Boston Marathon bombing brought the issue of domestic terrorism back into the limelight. But the site still hosts numerous articles glorifying the author of this manifesto.

Oh, and those associated with AVFM are not above harassing their male critics as well. I get a lot of weird, creepy and threatening emails and comments. It’s rare that the senders are dumb enough to do it under their own name. But that was the case with a creepy and threatening voicemail message I received at 1:38 AM one winter night from a longtime AVFM fan and tireless poster-paster that Elam once described as a “One Man Army” and “an MRA’s MRA.”

And this is the organization that expects feminists like me to pay for its security costs?

I don’t think so.

 

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weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Plus the MRM wants to be considered a terrorist group so the government workers will have to read their sites and will thus be swayed by all the STEMlogic on AVFM. By their logic they should fear that government workers will be oppressed and hypnotized by our lady butts into taking up the cause of feminism.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Ah, but you see, as feminists we have the wrong kind of butts, which is why we’re feminists, because the butt-control power is unavailable to us.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

It’s another catch-22 — feminism gets declared terrorism, they win in the obvious manner, it doesn’t? Proves that the conspiracy runs deep! The gov’n doesn’t want to help boys and men!! 11d!!!!!

Shaun Day
Shaun Day
6 years ago

Zombie aertheri, I think you’re giving them too much credit. Logic is misandry.

Chris Wilson
6 years ago

Hai weirwoodtreehugger, there appears to be 2 petitions; the original “declare the MRM a terrorist group” petition and now the clever MRM counterstrike petition “let’s declare feminism a terrorist group” petition.

I’m pretty sure they think it’s a counterstrike because one of the signers says so plangently
“Feminism is a hate movement, and if they can try to classify human rights activists as terrorists than it’s only fair to do the same to them.”

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Could they maybe just once do something that doesn’t make them sound like petulant children? Just for variety?

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
6 years ago

Well, mitochondria is inherited matrilineally.

But, not all eukaryotes reproduce sexually!

#notalleukaryotes

kittehserf
6 years ago

Oy, you karaotes, knock it off!

kittehserf
6 years ago

Ye gods, that conversation – the stupid, it burns!

It’s what someone on RS dubbed malidiocy – malevolent idiocy.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

So AVfMers have chosen a random feminist to persecute on the basis that she could have been the person to phone in the threats. Because actually it could have been anyone on the planet with access to a phone so why not choose a random feminist and persecute her. Yep, that is their style of terrorism.

At this point, I’m assuming that the hotel would want additional security to protect everyone else from the conference rather than than to protect the conference itself.

seranvali
6 years ago

Bbeaty:

“The part that sucks is that’s not a one-time choice. You have to make that choice over and over — like choosing to eat healthy food or exercise.”

You’re coming perilously close to saying that good health is something you can choose and I would both disagree with that and resent it. It means that if a person is ill it must be due to “bad choices” when many illnesses and disabilities have nothing to do with something the patient did “wrong”. That’s just another form of victim blaming.

I’ve just spent the last four years being treated for cancer. It was painful, humiliating and dangerous. I didn’t do anything wrong, I didn’t (to use the new-age parlance) do anything to “attract” it, and I get annoyed when people tell me that somehow I brought it on myself or deserved it for some non-existant reason.

Lots of people here have illnesses or disabilities and they don’t deserve to be told it’s their own damned fault!

seranvali
6 years ago

*scratches head* WTF is this business with JB? Why would any of us contact a women we don’t know from Eve, interfere in her life, implying that she’s making death threats to perfectly innocent hotel staff with no evidence whatsoever? Who does this? Is she trying to get us roped in so she and her little friends can blame us when their plans go south, or what?

If she actually is making death threats I’d be far more likely to turn her in than try and haul her arse out of the fire. That sort of behaviour is illegal and totally unacceptable.

mildlymagnificent
6 years ago

You know what struck me? The presumption of death threat in the first place.

If I’d read a FB page that said “we” are planning a fun, fun, fun protest – I’d instantly think that someone had 30 friends with sewing machines. And they were going to knock out a coupla dozen steampunk-clown outfits or teddybear-pirate costumes or all those hats from the Ascot Opening Race scene from My Fair Lady. Death threat. What’s fun about that? What kind of mind do you need to think of that?

Death threat. What’s fun about that? What kind of mind do you need to think of that at all?

mildlymagnificent
6 years ago

And I’d repeat myself too.

kittehserf
6 years ago

I’d instantly think that someone had 30 friends with sewing machines.

Or needles! We could stage a knit-in!

More I read about this, the more I’m convinced it’s Pauly and his scummy little friends doing the whole thing. How to scam money from their sucker followers, try to make feminists look bad, work up an excuse for their *cough* international *cough* conference not happening, and doxx yet another woman whose existence offends them.

I’m also wondering if this alleged conference was ever going to happen at all.

Chris Wilson
6 years ago

You guys all know the AVfMers and their ways better than I do, but is it possible that JB is sincere and on the level and has some genuine fellow feeling for another woman who she thinks may be in trouble?

Or do you think the AVfM crew picked her because she was the best able to appear to have empathy and they think you guys have the master plan for all the imaginary feminist cells and maybe she could weasel some info out of you.

I actually thought she might be kind of sincere.

tinyorc
6 years ago

Buttercup Q. Skullpants:

“Go! Go stand over there and put your arm around this person I have accused of doing something. Act like you know her. Here, hold this bloodstained knife for a second. Make sure you grip it really tightly with the pads of your fingers.”

I laughed so hard at this.

I agree that the email exchange and JB’s “concern” is an entirely transparent attempt to somehow get David tangled up in this whole thing so they can then screech “LOOK HE SUPPORTS DEATH THREATS!!!”

Just to recap, because I like recaps:

Assumption 1: There were real death threats and attacks against hotel staff and guests at the Detroit DoubleTree. We’re already on shaky territory here because the only evidence is an extremely fake-looking letter supplied by someone who has a vested interest in pulling a scam like this. (Money, plus implicating the “enemy”, plus face-saving if the Conference goes kaput due to lack of interest). This is further undermined in the article Auntie Alias posted, where the hotel owner and the local police department both say they have no knowledge of any threats or attacks. This is particulary odd, since JB has implied upthread that both the FBI and Homeland Security have been alerted.

Assumption 2: The threats were sent or at least co-ordinated by a feminist who is organizing a protest against the conference. There is literally no evidence to suport this at all. Another protest organizer has commented up-thread to deny that the feminist in question, or any of the other organizers, have been sending death threats, so we can’t even assume that silence (somehow) means guilt here.

Assumption 3: Other random feminists should “support” a feminist who has been sending death threats. Based on this already teetering house of cards and despite having literally no connection to the accused feminist, commenters on this blog should be concerned for her safety and rush to offer her support because she may not understand the gravity of the potentially non-existent threats which she may or may not have sent.

And with that, We have reached Stupidity Inception. Just lol. Go home, AVfM. Ur drunk.

wewereemergencies
wewereemergencies
6 years ago

@tinyorc

When you say it like that it just sounds silly…oh wait.

But seriously what? Just huh? None of this makes any kind of sense. There’s not even logic by MRA standards. I am so confused.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

I guess I’m more concerned that based on no evidence whatsoever, the AVfMers are going to harrass, doxx and threaten someone. Randomly. Just because they can. It’s not like it hasn’t happened in the past …

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
6 years ago

They can trace phone calls,
call me
can we skype?

Oh look, JB has invented a new form: paranoiaku.

homeland security
monitoring in the night
for the phrases “fuuuuun” and “ZERO EVIDENCE”

I wonder if JB was anxious to Skype in the hopes that she could record David saying something self-incriminating?

And what do you want to bet she’s going to post something like “David Futrelle could not be reached for comment”, in an attempt to insinuate guilt/involvement/cover up?

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

Holy cats, I just caught up on the hi jinx from last night (last night for me, anyway). Even as a recent delurker I know that JB has no credibility around here. So what the heck? “Here, reach out to this unknown woman who we’ve decided is a terrorist. It will harass her, hopefully make you look bad, and possibly give our ephemeral claims a sheen of authenticity.”

Um, no thanks.

Anyway, I wouldn’t even know how to contact a stranger in another city (one who probably doesn’t want to hear from me anyway). I’m not on Facebook. Which, considering that radio silence on that platform is supposed to be an admission of guilt in all things, probably means that I am the worst threat to peace, love, and the American way that has ever trod this green earth.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

Oh look, JB has invented a new form: paranoiaku.

😀

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
6 years ago

Here’s a woman that you females should admire

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/05/26/marine_le_pen_the_new_face_of_europes_rising_farright.html

Feminism of course died years ago. What you’re seeing today is just the men who as usual have to clean up the mess left behind by females. It seems that we have to do this every few generations but things will be back to normal in a year or two and all of this psychotic man hatred will just be like a bad dream and soon forgot.
Well,to you girls who supported your President Bush in his illegal invasion of Iraq and vilified the French for not joining in just keep eating those Freedom Fries,and getting fatter, because what you’re seeing today is the beginning of the end to this insanity that began when Clinton (the rapist) was in office. Putin is more respected and popular than your President Obama will ever be and in fact he’s a laughing stock in the world.
Furthermore, stop the sexism and racism. And apparently you are not too literate here because when I said that I was of the French race I was simply using old fashioned terminology. Race merely means a group. In point of fact, I’m actually from Monaco originally where we all speak English and of course French and Italian.
I haven’t received the new version of the Femsplaining/Newspeak dictionary so you’ll have to speak standard English if you really want to be understood by normal non psychotic humans.
I also don’t want you to believe that I’m chastising every female on here, just the bitter man hating irrational ones who need to learn a lesson.Still haven’t found what ableist means and is likely just some word you pulled out of your butt because it has no meaning.We do have disabled people and since you apparently don’t know what that means I’ll explain.It is someone who is totally incapacitated and incompetent either as a result of a physical or mental condition and requires a caretaker. What most of you mean when you say disabled is incorrect, handicapped is the correct word.A person who can’t walk or do most of the things a normal person can is handicapped not disabled. Even people who have Down’s syndrome are not always disabled but merely handicapped in many cases.
I hope that you understand that but many of you appear to be pretty thick headed.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

I don’t know if Peter is saying that we’re like the National Front, and therefore love Marine Le Pen, or if he finds Marine Le Pen admirable and thinks we should be more like her?

Because if it’s latter, I’m flattered. Saying I’m nothing like Marine Le Pen may be the nicest compliment I’ve gotten in a while.

mildlymagnificent
6 years ago

Hands up all you man-haters.

I know I must be one of these dreadful harpies – the fact that I’m still madly in love with the man I’ve been with for nigh on 40 years is Entirely Irrelevant. Irrelevant I say.

And I like my nephews, and my daughters’ partners. But that’s Irrelevant also. By the time you’ve also discounted all my men friends, you’re left with just the Naked Burning Hatred I exhibit to All Men in the world (apart from the exceptions).

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

you females

Oops, Peter LaCrap, your misogyny is showing.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

Still haven’t found what ableist means and is likely just some word you pulled out of your butt because it has no meaning.

Dies of the laughter.

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
6 years ago

Oops, Peter LaCrap, your misogyny is showing

Opps your stupidity is showing. Get a dictionary and you will find that there is a male and a female sex. And for god’s sake never use the word gender when you are referring to a person because it is a linguistic term.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

Oh, Petey, you really are an idiot. But bonus points for entertainment value, this time.

Man: Noun indicating a male human being
Female: Adjective. Of or relating to the sex that can produce young or lay eggs.

Using “men” for men and “females” for women – well done on that other..

Get your own dictionary, sweetie.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

^othering. Damn you, typos.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

when I said that I was of the French race

But you didn’t say that you were of the French race. You said that I was racist for mocking your French name and then you came out with some lovely (not really) reverse racism bullshit.

We can scrill back up and see what you wrote, you know.

By the way, I wasn’t mocking your French name. I was mocking you. It shoudl have been obvious but I realise now that you need simple things explained to you.

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
6 years ago

@Mouse
You should be more like Le Pen because at least she wants to protect her country’s culture and not have it overrun with foreign invaders. Or perhaps you do want that which all I can say is suicidal and warped thinking. If that is truly what you want then there would be no reason for you to object to the Europeans who completely marginalised the Amerindians in the New World.

magnesium
magnesium
6 years ago

Still haven’t found what ableist means and is likely just some word you pulled out of your butt because it has no meaning.

Do they not have Google on your planet?

Oh wait let’s check a dictionary even
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ableism

Oh shit! The dictionary is probably just racist against French people and also hates men.

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
6 years ago

@Titian
You are a racist and a gang bully and you let it slip out when you believed that everyone one would attack me. You showed your true colours.You are just as prejudiced as a KKK member. It’s just that you think you’re safe to attack only certain other people. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Shiraz
Shiraz
6 years ago

Creepy post. He keeps saying feeeeemales like he’s a ferengi.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Okaaaay, I’m starting to get sock vibes from Petey boy. Bringing up the KKK is very Erin/Davisish.

scott1139
scott1139
6 years ago

Why write ‘females’ instead of ‘women’, Peter LaCroix? I’m honestly quite curious.

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
6 years ago

Very nice little animal in the US called a Chipmouse. Very cute like a little squirrel. I have to go leave some nuts for them because I see some babies but don’t want them to become too tame. Before I could stop it and run over a nasty cat grabbed one and ran under a bush. I chased it and shook the bush and the cat dropped it before killing it and it ran down a hole to its home.

Shiraz
Shiraz
6 years ago

Um, was that an extended metaphor for something else?

girlscientist
girlscientist
6 years ago

From the Detroit News article (http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140602/METRO/306020106/0/METRO/Men-s-rights-conference-Detroit-raises-security-concerns):

Fort Shelby owner Emmett Moten said he wasn’t aware of the conference or threats, but said it’s not unusual for hotels to require additional security.

Is it normal at all for the owner of the hotel not to be aware of a conference that is scheduled there? I mean, of course the manager is more involved in the day-to-day business of things, but surely he/she briefs the owner on a regular basis? Is this conference happening, or have the attendees wasted their money on a hoax?

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
6 years ago

Why write ‘females’ instead of ‘women’, Peter LaCroix? I’m honestly quite curious.

Because female applies to all members of that sex. Woman means just an adult.Understand, mademoiselle?

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

@Peter – I’m married to an immigrant, my kids are first-generation U.S.-ians through their father’s side. So, yeah, I’d say I’m okay with “foreign” people entering my country (and one particular “foreign” person entering other things, winkwinknudgenudge).

I don’t think you’re arguing in good faith, Peter, so I probably shouldn’t even answer your “colonialismgotchahahaha!” comment, but on the tiny off chance that you are, here you go:

I’ll be serious for a moment and say that I do have a lot of trouble with my nation’s past. I’m white of predominantly German and Anglo-Irish ancestry; my dad’s side came to what would be the U.S. in the seventeenth century. So any time you talk about Europeans oppressing, enslaving, and marginalizing, my forefathers/mothers were probably up to their elbows in it. Even if I didn’t have an ancestral link to the dirty dealings, I still benefit from the power system they helped set up. Even my husband, whose family didn’t set foot on U.S. soil until the 70’s, benefits. We’re top-drawer because of the color of our skin. It’s not fair, it’s not right. I want our country to have as level as playing field as possible. Unfortunately, I’m still trying to figure out how I can make that happen without succumbing to the Lady Bountiful Is Our Great White Savior complex :/

So no, I’m not threatened by the new, and no, I don’t condone the old even if it has handed me a relatively cushy life. I’m a paradox wrapped in an enigma wearing a pair of glasses, I guess.

Also, Peter, I’m curious as to why you’re so threatened by immigration?

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

@auggziliary – I think Peter was implying that he scared me away. Instead of, oh, you know, maybe thinking I had to leave to take the kids to school and get some work done?

girlscientist
girlscientist
6 years ago

Peter, French people don’t capitalize letters in the middle of names. And I can say that with great authority, because I am French. Understand, monsieur?

Shiraz
Shiraz
6 years ago

Wow. Fucking weird.

Peter LaCroix
Peter LaCroix
6 years ago

Did peter really just compare the genocide of Native Americans to immigration? Ugh.

From the time the Spaniards conquered Mexico to the present is 500 years.People didn’t just come in and immediately kill everyone. It took a long time and there were many different situations.In many cases they just became outnumbered and had to keep moving away to more isolated areas where there was not enough food.So in a way European immigration was the cause. And in the US there is plenty of land not like in Europe. You may have a billion hectares just in Texas.

tinyorc
6 years ago

@girlscientist:

I would say it’s probably normal enough that owner wouldn’t be aware of specific conferences because, as you say, they are generally not involved in the day-to-day running of the hotel and there’s probably at least one conference a week.

I find it absolutely baffling that a hotel owner would not have been briefed on multiple attacks and death threats against their staff and guests, and not be aware of the specific conference they are related to.

girlscientist
girlscientist
6 years ago

@tinyorc: Or that he/she wouldn’t have told the reporter: “hold on, let me talk to the manager and get back to you with the correct information on this.”

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

@Titian
You are a racist and a gang bully and you let it slip out when you believed that everyone one would attack me. You showed your true colours.You are just as prejudiced as a KKK member. It’s just that you think you’re safe to attack only certain other people. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Really? And yet I’m not the one coming on here and lauding Putin, far right wingers and anti-immegration politicians.

One of us is waving the racist flag, sweetie, and it ain’t me.

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