Most of those in the manosphere, whatever their real feelings, have been relatively circumspect about expressing sympathy with, or support for, Elliot Rodger. Sure, many manospherians – from MRAs to PUAs to MGTOWs – have long been half-warning, half-threatening those of us in the “blue pill” world that angry young men are going to rise up and take a sort of self-styled revenge upon their supposed female and feminist oppressors.
But when one man actually launches a “Day of Retribution” intended to punish the “blonde sluts” of the world (as well as any man who roused his ire or got in his way), most manospherians have tried to change the subject, denying any connection between his ideas and theirs, and in some cases even trying to pretend that the man who wanted to watch all women die in concentration camps wasn’t even a misogynist at all.
That’s not the case over at the CoAlpha Forum, a self-proclaimed “Reactionary Free Speech Forum” given over to a strange and scary patriarchal variant on manosphere ideology.
The main thing keeping the CoAlphas from celebrating Elliot Rodgers as an Incel Hero? He killed too many men – and didn’t “butcher” enough “sorority girls.”
In one thread immediately following the shootings, the CoAlphas wondered why Rodger didn’t kill more women. Cornfed complained:
Fschmidt, one of the site’s administrators, offered a distinct lack of sympathy to the victims, and indeed any victims of any killings in the United States.
Vegeta2 just came out and said it: In his eyes, Elliot would have been a true hero — if he had only killed more women.
Cornfed was also less than impressed with Rodger’s “haul” as a spree killer:
In a second thread started several days after the killings, fschmidt postulated that Elliot Rodger’s real problem was that he was a “man of integrity” who suffered because he was pressured to “try to fit into a depraved culture that he could never really be a part of.”
And suprisingly, he got some pushback from one commenter. Though Moralmoe91 made clear that he “agreed with most of Rodger’s criticisms of: women, society as a whole, and the messed up male/female dynamics that are rampant today,” he just couldn’t agree with the killing, which he thought was wrong because, you know, killing is bad, and also very likely to cause big problems for incels and antifeminists like him.
Fschmidt offered a rather chillingly blase response to Moralmoe91’s contention that killing people was not such a great idea.
I don’t understand the point of condemning his actions. I mean, I don’t approve but I am not particularly against the death of Americans.
In a series of coments, poor Moe did his best to explain to fschmidt that Rodger’s actions might end up hurting him too. And he repeated his apparently quite controversial notion that murder is actually bad.
No dice. Fschmidt was convinced by none of it. Not even the bit about murder.
Murder? Killing is only murder when one kills a member of one’s own culture. Modern Western culture is not my culture, so I do not consider killing its members to be murder.
That may be the creepiest thing I’ve read since Elliot Rodger’s manifesto.
What Chris Wilson said.
Also:
But what if those people are condoning murder in their writing? What if they’re rationalizing murder because killing people in a group of “others” doesn’t count? What if they’re complaining because there wasn’t enough murder? Are we still supposed to sit back and chuckle “Oh, boys will be boys! Look at them, challenging my silly little belief that women are people and that people should be allowed to remain alive!”
Peter, you don’t get any of the cookies I just made. Everyone else can have one. They’re chocolate chip and pretty darned good if I do say so myself.
RE: pinkfluffyunicrone (love the name, by the way)
Manospherian: “Feminists are making us look bad!”
No, sweetie- YOU are making you look bad
Yeah, they don’t need US to help them! They do all the work themselves!
RE: Vegeta2
I stand by my words
How noble of you.
RE: Peter LaCroix
You say it’s some white guy but it could just as well be some Black girl.
Yeah, because you know what I think of when I see someone complaining about women not dating white boys? I think of BLACK WOMEN.
I don’t know if Rodgers would be considered legally insane but he was a very disturbed person and possibly psychotic.
I’ve been psychotic, never tried to hurt anybody in that state except myself. Just take your balls and go home, dude. Nobody wants to play with you here.
Also, I have found the perfect song for these chucklefucks!
And part two!
“Agony! So much greater than yours!” (The song is even mocking entitled white dudes complaining about not getting enough female attention.)
I just saw this fresh specimen: http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/the-government-its-time-to-class-feminism-as-a-terrorist-group
Not basing your entire identity on whether or not you’ve had sex = mangina. Whereas whining on the internet and wishing people would die because you’re not having sex = alpha manly man? Yet it doesn’t seem to be getting you laid, either….
@Peter, it’s obvious you have no clue what you’re talking about, and perhaps more importantly, you have no idea what we’re talking about. You’re dumping 101-level nonsense in a 201+ discussion, friend. And this crap:
Wishing it was legal to beat and rape me = not meshing with my beliefs. Dude, fuck you.
wut
Interesting diagnosis, doctor. Where did you get your medical degree?
@LBT I love that song. Can’t believe it never occurred to me how perfect it is for the manosphere!
Peter LaCroix, pretend to be an antifeminist all you like, but we know you’re in the pocket of Big Flavored Bottled Water.
This is the most succinct summation of why trying to talk sense into misogynist trolls is pointless that I’ve ever seen. Bravo.
This is somewhat off-topic but up here in Canada CAFE has just been granted status as a tax-exempt charity. You all remember CAFE, sponsor of a certain controversial U of T talk, and cosponsor of the not very well attended AVfM rally in Toronto. I think someone in the government has had the wool pulled over their eyes by CAFE’s bogus talk of egalitarianism. I don’t know if it would be possible to get CAFE’s charity status rescinded, but I think some people in government should know what kind of an organization they are helping. Time to write my MLA and whoever else I can think of.
Peter, you want to pin the blame solely on mental illness? Fine. Explain to me why women never go on killing sprees because men aren’t sleeping with them – or indeed, why women don’t seem to go out looking for men to kill. Explain to me why men never go on killing sprees because men aren’t fucking them. Why does it just happen to be heterosexual men who “go crazy” in this way?
And what about the men who kill their female partners and those partners’ families? Are they “crazy” or “normal”? What about the men who just kill their partners? What about the men who beat women but don’t kill them? Where, exactly, is the line between misogyny and “crazy”?
Thanks Natalie, that’s really helpful.
*eyeroll*
Having taken Latin in high school my impulse is always to pluralize any ‘us’ word as ‘i’
pet Latin peeve: pluralizing “virus” as “viri” <-not even the same word
of course, I refer to any very large bonus as "boni"…..
Emily,
I somehow missed Peter’s claim that he read the manifesto before it was online. What the hell does that even mean?
I really hope that was a misstatement and not an admission that he had advance knowledge of the crime and did nothing to stop it.
Emilygoddess, I could say the same about your reply
*rolls eyes then sticks out tongue*
Anyone know somebody at the FBI who they can report our new friend Peter to?
Wtf is with that damn petition? I’m beginning to think anyone dropping that link is not doing it sincerely and may be a troll, especially Encumbe or w/e pretty sure that’s the second time I’ve seen them drop that link. We are not that gullible seriously.
What the hell, Canada? They should be on you hate group list, not on your tax exempt list.
What’d ya mean? We get all the unsolicited dick pics we could ever want! Obviously we’re all just swimming in all the dick we could ever need (or want ugh yuck). I’m sure these guys just think women are being unfairly picky and choosing not to sleep with all the available men throwing themselves at us or something.
Cupisinque, well, you never know. They could be sincere or they could be trolling and same could be said for most things on this here interwebs.
Another weird thing that just jumped out at me – why do these guys think that “dateless men” are recognized as a distinct group by other people? I mean, I know that’s how they see themselves, hence identifying as incel, but you’d think they’d have noticed that most other people don’t see things the same way given the confusion that ensues whenever they start going on about being incel anywhere outside their own forums.
@ takshak surely a bonus is always bona
I really wish there was a God so that these MRA/PUA/Incel/MGTOW/CoAlpha morons would one day find themselves in the bodies of women.
Hey, there doesn’t need to be a god for reincarnation to be a thing. I think most of these guys are bypassing “be a woman in your next life so you can see what you’ve done” and going directly to “dung beetle”.
I move that they reincarnate as Spanx-wearing penguins and spend their lives delivering welcome packages as penance.
Then lurk moar. Feel free to find one of the 34984387 other times we’ve had this conversation this week, because I lost my patience for this “he was crazy” bullshit days ago. Neither women nor people with mental illnesses are helped by you calling Rodgers a “psycho”.
@schadevivre: and a virus is vira. hence the irony 🙂
& if these morons ever stubbed their toe on an iota of self awareness, they’d die of shock
de lurking alert
first off, i wish to thank david and the able crew of regular commenters on making this site a veritable oasis of the internet. i became aware of MRAs within the last couple of years as they began invading news sites that i previously enjoyed (such as huffpost and salon). i found their views so abhorrent that i began to research what it was all about. i could not bear to actually read their sites but looked at secondary sources. once again, a major thanks to you, david, for reading and reporting so that i can safely avoid the slime pit. no matter what i read, i always came away with the overwhelming opinion that MRAs were not just misogynists, but whiny babies.
i would love to participate in the #yesallwomen but cannot even fathom the number of 140 character posts required to cover my experiences after 50 years on this planet. :/
as to this particular topic of the co-alphas (whatever that might be), i can see only one positive in their posts — they consider rodger just as much a failure as i do, albeit for different reasons. yes, rodger completely failed in his misogynist mission, for which i thank all that i consider holy, the terror was mitigated by his ineptitude. co-alphas seem to regard it as a failure because not enough terror was inflicted, ghastly as that is.
anyway, i am grateful to the community here, it helps me enormously once i’ve encountered some MRA blowhard on other sites.
(ps — i do love my kitty, even when he was mad at me last night for not sharing the shower with him and yowled incessantly until i opened the glass door for him it was only at that point, he questioned his need to be next to me. the scented candles glowing on the counter were a nice touch as well.)
As an incel I feel compelled to stop being a bitch for a moment to say : Not all of us are hate filled assholes. Some of us are nice and are able to get along in our lives without sex or a girlfriend/boyfriend and some of us KNOW that the world owes us none of these things.
Before someone whips out the ‘the no-one-said-that’ card, well, yes i know no one said that. I don’t want any of this to splash onto people like me who chose not to participate in these self-defeating,mean spirited, hate-filled groups.
I like it, quiet_kitten. Very apt.
@natalie
We are well aware that plenty of people manage to go about regular lives without sex or a partner. Those people are not a problem.
Natalie, are you a man or a woman? If you’re a woman why do you call yourself incel when you know you could find both relationships and sex?
Natalie Jones, we don’t have a prize around here for contributing the least.
Katz, I was making that comment for people who are new to the idea of an incel and might get the wrong impression from such groups. I apologize if I haven’t met the standards of one so great as you and will remember not to transgress against the ever so mighty one known as KATS!
…I’m not known as Kats.
I’m having trouble reconciling why anyone would label themselves an incel if they didn’t feel they were somehow being denied something. First off, giving yourself a label suggests you’re quite focused on it and the “involuntary” part makes it very clear that this is something you believe is being done TO you.
Everyone goes through dry spells and lots of people have trouble with the whole dating/relationship thing, but most people don’t give themselves a label over it. They work on the issues or they find other things to fulfil themselves with.
Yep. Some of us can be really happy without doing the sideways tango.
But ‘incel’ in and of itself indicates that the self declared ‘incel’ finds their plight involuntary, implying unwanted. Involuntary also implies that someone or something else is forcing the involuntary nature.
The idea that pretty guys or pretty girls are forcing someone to be celibate by not wanting to have sex with any given person is a hell of a problem with the incel ideology, to me.
Natalie, if you are happy without a parter, consider not calling yourself an incel. Even if you are unhappy without a parter, consider dropping the incel.
Incel is an awful term.
Yeah, I see now value in that label it’s not worth “trying to take it back” it’s pretty much corrupt so anyone labelling themselves incel automatically is suspect in my eyes.
So, putting aside your internalized misogyny for a moment – if you’re aware that you’re behaving badly, why do you keep doing it?
ock
okay, this is skeeving me the fuck out. I know it was probably meant well, but it’s still skeeving me out anyways.
a) I never liked the “become part of the oppressed class for vengeance/perspective” or w/e. Sure, it’d be nice if they’d gain perspective, but I do not see my existence as a punishment or lesson. I’ve seen people say “ableist person be careful because anyone can become disabled”and it’s like… well, they see disability as a punishment. Putting a MRA/PUA/whatever in a “woman’s body” (wtf does that even mean?) would be treating womanness as a punishment.
and b) what the heck is a woman’s body? I mean, seriously. If you’re talking about an AFAB body (which can still have many variations), then it’s kind of cissexist of you, and also.. they (presumably identifying as male) would still be men.
caamib
anyone can find relationships if they lower their standards enough, jackass. finding ANY relationship/sex does not equal finding a relationship/sexual relationship you atually like
OK, just an asshole then.
*facepalm*
faux, hi, have a Welcome Package!
Always good to see another servant of the Furrinati delurking. 😀
What on earth is Natalie Jones even on about? Non sequitur upon non sequitur.
Funny, isn’t it – “incels” whine endlessly about how women are out sexing any random dude, however good, bad or indifferent he is, yet they’ve never figured out that that still excludes them.
Common denominator, fellers.
Nthing the opinion that the term incel is full of implied entitlement and misogyny. I’m no virgin but am going through a pretty severe draught. But it never crossed my mind to call myself incel. It’s nobody’s fault but mine that I’m not even putting myself or out there and trying to gets dates and/or sex. Even if I was trying and failing it still wouldn’t be the fault of an entire gender. The whole label is just icky.
“I’m not going to get upset by someone calling for my rape and extermination, because it might be a black girl.”
…Said no one, ever.
Why does it matter who’s behind the keyboard? An asshat is an asshat is an asshat. Words matter. On the internet, it’s all you have to go on.
For example, I judge you to be a bigot, because you used the terms “chink” and “Negro”, and you capitalize “Black”, as if to indicate that nonwhite skin color is an exotic category to be called out and set apart from regular discourse. If you’re unhappy with being called a bigot, then learn how to communicate clearly, and don’t post racist shit.
Connotations aside, why would you identify as something that was both temporary and (from your perspective) negative? That’s awfully pessimistic.
Well, yeah, I am an asshole but, y’all are right I probably shouldn’t call my self an ‘incel’. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
If someone dislikes their current job, are they a bad-job-haver and doomed to be so forever? If they don’t apply for any new jobs and instead spent most of their time complaining how they’ll never get a better job to other people who also see themselves as bad-job-havers, is that the most proactive and sensible approach they could take to that issue, or would going out and looking for a job (with the understanding that hey, it still might not happen, but it’s definitely not going to happen if they don’t even apply) be smarter?
To be honest, I wouldn’t want to ever be hit on let alone date a person who calls himself an incel or a “nice guy.” blaahh Just stay at home, I don’t want to know you.
Like I wouldn’t define myself as an “unpublished writer,” even though that’s true, and I certainly wouldn’t then selectively hang out with other unpublished writers (and avoid published writers) and define my identity around being unpublished, because not only would that be a depressing way to classify myself, but it would create a perverse incentive for me not to accomplish my own stated goals.
Urrrrgh. If anyone wants a break from the stupid, I promise no stupidity whatsoever at my writeathon. I will write 100% stupid-free stories about decent human beings. (Or non-decent human beings getting come-uppance, if that’s your preference.)
RE: emilygoddess
I love that song. Can’t believe it never occurred to me how perfect it is for the manosphere!
You can thank my former roomie in Boston who studied musical theatre. She would sing this sometimes at appropriate moments.
RE: katz
Peter LaCroix, pretend to be an antifeminist all you like, but we know you’re in the pocket of Big Flavored Bottled Water.
I’m with you. I’m sick of arguing the same bullshit with these dudes as though they’re actually worth debating for the five-billionth time. They can go fucking ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET if they want to be taken seriously.
RE: caamib
Natalie, are you a man or a woman? If you’re a woman why do you call yourself incel when you know you could find both relationships and sex?
*pats you gently on your stupid little head* Run along, child, the grown-ups are talking.
RE: natalie jones
…protecting the good names of incels? Is that REALLY the hill you want to die on? I haven’t heard anything good about these guys.
RE: katz
I know, right? I mean, I identified as ‘homeless’ for a while, but. Uh. That was something that CHANGED, something I WANTED to change, and incels seem more obsessed with clinging to their identity label and never giving it up or the resentment involved.
Now I’m imagining some dude going from couch surfing to an apartment with roommates to an apartment by himself to owning a house and identifying as “homeless” the whole time.