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Over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, the neverending struggle against imaginary feminists continues apace. Today, one brand-new Redditor, a self-described former feminist, won himself several dozen upvotes from the regulars by bringing them a literally unbelievable tale of his adventures with a coven of slap-happy feminists.
I stopped calling myself a feminist a few years ago when I went to a meeting and was told “men are inly allowed in this safe space if they participate in a slap circle.”
The idea was that it would be harder for me to intimidate with my six foot stature if all the women had a chance to slap me in the face. I left.
Another guy actually did it.
It’s all true. I WAS THAT GUY.
BUT WHO WAS PHONE?
Actually, no. If this dude’s story is true, I will literally eat my cats.
While most of the Men’s Rightsers commenting in the thread seem to have swallowed this story whole, “slap circles” aren’t actually a thing in feminism.
They are a thing, though, amongst bored and/or drunk young men (and sometimes women) around the world, as countless videos on YouTube can attest.
As as site called Hungry Teen explains, a “Slap Circle” is
A great way to bond with friends, release aggression and stimulate the face. The Slap Circle is a game made for the more hardcore, daring person and can be used as a test for finding the manliest of the group. Although adopting female fighting techniques, the slap circle appeals far more to men. Nothing is required for this game, other than a hand, a face and a set of balls.
All you do, is stand in a circle and slap the person to your right in the face, while waiting for a slap from the person on your left. If you’ve had enough, you step out of the circle and the last two standing fight it out for the winner.
I eagerly await stories in the Men’s Rights subreddit detailing Andrea Dworkin’s demand that all men and boys be forced to take the Cinnamon Challenge and all those insidious mandatory nut shot seminars being forced upon all college students unfortunate enough to be born with a pair of balls.
Thanks to Cloudiah for the heads up, and the good people of the AgainstMensRights subreddit for the Hungry Teen quote.
Well, firstly, this is a religion conversation, as well as an education conversation, because of how it got framed.
Secondly, I apologize. As I indicated, (“meanest thing I could say,” “only half serious,”) I phrased that in an inflammatory way on purpose, because I was feeling attacked and belittled and I took it personally, and I really should have unplugged and considered it before I added that part in.
I do think there is a systemic problem in education that needs to be addressed, but I also know lots of individuals doing their best to combat it at the level they’re at.
@ Suzy
Then if you’re going to discuss European education in the way that you have been you need to specify which ones. Europe is big, and there’s lots of variation in the way education (like many other things) works in different part of it.
I’m sorry if I didn’t make that clear. The system I described is definitely true for Spain, Italy and other EU countries.
@ Howard
I wonder how class size plays into all this. I would guess that bigger class = teacher has less time to give to each student, which probably isn’t helping with the whole treating students as unique individuals with unique interests and skill sets and potential life paths thing. Like a lot of the other stuff people have been discussing funding would have an impact on that.
Part of the reason I’m being pedantic is, well, the former Soviet bloc countries are part of Europe, right? And I’m guessing their educational systems look a bit different to what you’d find in a lot of EU countries.
Again Suzy, Britain is an EU country, and what you describe definitely doesn’t fit the system in the UK.
And having gone through a Europe education system, and known many people who have, what you describe doesn’t fit with everyone’s experiences that I’ve heard.
The system you are describing is specifically the Baccalaureat, which is the French secondary education qualification. All European countries have different systems, for example in Germany they have the Abitur, and they all function differently.
And also to point out, the EU is not really involved in the education systems of individual member states. There isn’t a Europe wide national education system and member states have pretty much 100% control their education systems.
Yeah, I was going to say, my aunt taught in Germany for a while, and what Suzy is describing doesn’t match what I remember her saying about her experiences either, nor those of the German people my age who I know.
RE: cassandrakitty
Part of the reason I’m being pedantic is, well, the former Soviet bloc countries are part of Europe, right? And I’m guessing their educational systems look a bit different to what you’d find in a lot of EU countries.
Yeah. I’m kinda confused why Suzy, when asked to explain, said “other EU countries.” Uh, that’s a lot of countries, Suzy. And they probably have pretty wildly different schooling things. (I mean, the USA is ONE country, and schools vary a good bit!)
This is very, very, very true, and also very, very, very scary, because I firmly believe that everything wrong with schools today? Those guys want to make it worse.
Welp, I want to emphasize two things; one, I’ve known loads of people who got plenty out of their educations and went to a public school, so I agree with you completely there. Secondly, a lot of my criticism of education methods comes from a very layman’s-level dabbling in educational psychology and a frustration that it seems a lot of the stuff that’s exciting and new is being kept out of classrooms in the US–in large measure because of people who want to go backwards and still complain that corporal punishment is no longer allowed.
Plus, other stuff. Which rhymes with “institutional prejudice.” And “imbalanced funding sources depriving already-deprived classes.” And stuff and stuff and stuff. And when you start looking at them all together it starts to sound like somebody, somewhere really likes the idea of a class-stratified society where the poorest receive an education that’s high on discipline and rules and low on opportunity.
But now I’m getting a little Teal Deer of my own going on over here.
Ah Suzy your description of your education sounds like the Baccalaureate which is French, I’ve just realised you weren’t in France.
And having done a bit of digging into various education systems in European countries, there are similarities between the French and Italian systems but they still aren’t the same and both, though they do aim to make pupils specialise, still allow a range of subjects to be studied including science.
But anyway, despite similarities, you still can’t generalise about “european countries” and their education systems. For example, the French Baccalureate offers three paths of specialisation, whereas the Italian Liceo offers at least 6, and that’s not including the other educational paths which are more aimed at job skills rather than theoretical education.
And while continental school systems may have some similarities (unsurprisingly), lumping the British system in with them really doesn’t make sense.
Also, as a basic historical fact, if you are ever talking about “Europe” always be very careful as most European countries were constantly at war with each other about 60-odd years ago and just over 20 half of it was under Soviet rule. And even now within the EU, things are dominated by a small group of countries (mainly France and Germany) so when people talk about “Europe” when they mean the EU, they aren’t even talking about all the countries that are member states, as the power and the money and thus the political clout and whose views are heard are concentrated in just a few nations hands.
Basically, Europe is only 90% of the time useful as a Geographical term.
Yeah, I’m kinda staying out of the school stuff, just because… well, I was a high-achieving over-functioning crazy person who was desperately using public school as a way to maintain a patina of functionality, even when the eating disorder started taking over my life.
I feel like I can’t say ANYTHING useful about school experiences.
My personal mantra is this: I have no stake in this game. I’m never going back to school, and I don’t plan to have any kids. The only reason for me to ever raise my voice about schools is to try to help all the kids out there in the world to have something better.
And I don’t have any personal tools for measuring what makes a school better. I can only look at studies and surveys and other tools, and try to suss out what works best for kids along those lines, because I don’t know. I had some years of home-schooling and some years of college, but it was only one experience and that’s not nearly enough to figure it out.
And once I’ve said all that I feel less like I have to defend my parent’s decisions or sort out my own problems and more like maybe that’s something I’m allowed to have an opinion about.
Mileage may vary.
LBT,
Was it library science? I, too, am glad I chose not to pursue that degree. My MLIS friend is cobbling together part-time jobs – and this is in Boston, city of universities!
Suzy,
It’s mandatory in the US, but not every school can afford to provide what the student needs.
Howard,
I hear what you’re saying, and there’s wisdom in it, but I disagree. To paraphrase John Green, I care about the education of current and future students because I will have to share a country with them, and I don’t want them to be stupid. They will eventually be voting, and working, and creating, and some day they’ll be the politicians and the CEOs and the journalists and media makers, and the quality of all of that, and by extension the quality of all our lives, depends on their educations. /rant
RE: emilygoddess
Was it library science? I, too, am glad I chose not to pursue that degree. My MLIS friend is cobbling together part-time jobs – and this is in Boston, city of universities!
Yup! A shame, because I actually was pretty passionate about that career and hubby loved the idea of working with kids, but well, we quit, and then our health fell apart, and now we’re disabled…
So yeah. I’m kinda sad, but it really was a bullet dodged there. Especially since while disabled, I COULD in theory go back to school (though I never want to) but I could NEVER afford top surgery. *pets nice flat chest*
re accommodations
they *have* to offer them, but only they have it be as little as possible
i didn’t know i was disabled during high school, so i couldn’t have gotten them any way, or any help at all with my depression.
now i go to a public college, so they have to offer accommodations, but only for things required. Like, there’s a way to get between two campuses, but it’s completely inaccessible. since it’s not legally required, they didn’t bother to give it a wheelchair ramp/lift and highly discouraged me from taking it even though i could climb on the bus if someone else moved my wheelchair for me. there might be other examples but i’m really not involved with the student community; i just go to my classes and go home.
one thing i understand, but don’t like, is the doctors note for any accommodation you might need. because my doctor *hates* giving me accommodations. I’m like “so…. can i have a disabled parking card since i can’t walk 200 feet without excrutiating pain?” “No i can only assign those for people with rheumatoid arthritis”. “is there anyway i can get insurance to cover a wheelchair?” “no i can only tell your insurance you need it if you have rheumatoid arthritis”. So idk if she would even vouch for me if i asked her to tell the school i’m disabled. but thats more of an ick doctor thing than a school thing
she is infinitely better than my old general doctor because at least she didn’t judge me for getting a wheelchair. old doctor w was like “how can you get a wheelchair? you’re eighteen? What if you loose the ability to walk? What if you get fat? why can’t you just pretend your not in pain and push through ti?”
that got out of hand and off topic, sorry
*threadruption*
Blockquote fail!
Oh well. Here’s a film I watch about once a year. Maybe you’ll like it too.
http://www.atouchofgreatness.com/
Lea,
I get what you’re saying but it takes a certain amount of privilege to be able to successfully homeschool a child. It is not an option for a lot of families. Public school is absolutely necessary for a functioning democracy. I’m troubled by the movement in recent years, both on the left and the right to just sort of give up on public schools. There are definite improvements to be made, in some districts more than others, but it can be done. It has to be done.
I’m absolutely not attacking your choice or questioning the decisions you’ve made for your kids. But attacking public schools gets us nowhere either. All I asked was that the thread not go in the other direction towards trashing public schooling and people who use it. My disabled brother got a great education in public schools. It is possible if as a society we prioritize it.
Ally,
I’m so sorry that you were only given a choice between loneliness and mental abuse. That’s not ok.
I would not call it a deathtrap, but students do vape right in the classroom now. My daughter has had to explain to people that A) it still smells and B) “We can all see your pupils, so cut it out” to other students. I’m not concerned. That’s high school. *shrug*
I don’t deny that. That’s why I specifically stated:
It also, as I pointed out, takes a certain amount of privilege to be successfully publicly schooled. So, I don’t get your point.
Maybe that’s why I said,
Again, if you aren’t attacking my choice or my criticism, what are you trying to say? It’s like you didn’t read anything I wrote.
Yeah, I’ve gotten this so often. I should fight the system! I should spend all my time and effort fixing a system through my free labor that isn’t likely to get a result. My kids are to be sacrificed on the alter of public schools because democracy.
No.
If speaking the truth about a system is “trashing it” the problem is the system.
Let me remind you again that most of my kids are in public school.
…where in high school many kids in my daughter’s history class had never heard of The Holocaust.
…where I have been told by teachers of two of my kids now, “I cannot teach this child”.
Speaking of my lived experiences is not attacking yours.