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Men's Rights Activists respond to the Elliot Rodger murders with a hearty "Nothing to see here! Move along!"

nothing-to-see-here
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If anyone was hoping – against their better judgement – that Men’s Rights activists would be inspired by the tragedy in Isla Vista to reconsider any of their beliefs, or even to reflect for a moment on the many striking similarities between passages in Elliot Rodger’s book-length manifesto and comments posted every day by MRAs and others in the manosphere, well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you should not keep that hope alive.

It’s not that they’re not talking about the tragedy. A look through the top 100 posts in the Men’s Rights subreddit, the largest Men’s Rights forum online, reveals that roughly a third of them, including the top stickied post, relate in some way to Elliot Rodger’s rampage and the discussions that have come up online and in the media in its aftermath.

But the message of virtually all of these posts is: “Nothing to see here! Move along!” There are numerous posts expressing outrage that anyone would see any connection between Rodger’s toxic misogyny to the Men’s Rights movement; there are others mocking and attacking the #YesAllWomen hashtag; there’s even one suggesting that Rodger, who wrote about how he longed to watch all the women of the world starve to death in concentration camps, wasn’t actually a misogynist at all.

Take a look. One post, with more than 500 upvotes, complains:

Feminists highjack what should be a Mental Health issue.
Another post makes a strikingly similar complaint:

Feminists Hijack A Mass Murder To Boost Self-Esteem
One angry MRA asks:

Why am I being compared to a mentally ill, narcissistic, racist, misogynist, sociopathic serial killer?
Another wonders:

So at this point would it be worth it to look into a Defamation suit against those trying to link MRA's with the recent tragedy?

Sorry to break it to you, fella, but that’s not how defamation suits work. If it were, all of us who call ourselves feminists would be collecting millions of dollars from the Men’s Rights subreddit for all the patently untrue things you guys say about us every day of every week.

Still others make sure that everyone knows that Rodger hated men too – not that this has actually gone unnoticed in the media or in discussions of the tragedy.

Proof that Elliot Rodger Hates Men
Finally! The MSM acknowledges that Elliot Roger hated *MEN*

And then there’s this fellow, who seems to think that Rodger only hated men, and that his big problem with women was that he loved them too much:

Elliot Rodgers the Misandrist. (self.MensRights) submitted 13 hours ago by TheWhimsicalFox In listening to Elliot's videos, and reading some of his manifesto, I almost feel as if this guy really just hated men. It seems as if he put women on a pedestal and held such an adoration for them that he could not understand how the "beasts" (among other terms)/men got to date them. This is a totally new idea for me, I haven't really thought it through for longer than a minute or two. So that's why I'm taking it here. What do you guys think?
There are, it’s true, two posts that raise the issue of what might be done to prevent tragedies like this from happening in the future. One of them takes on the issue of “virgin shaming.” (Sure, I’m against that, and against slut shaming too. Odd that roughly 100% of the virgin shaming I’ve ever heard in my life has come from MRAs and other non-fans of this blog, even though — sorry to break it to you fellows — I’ve not been a virgin since the early Reagan administration.)

Meanwhile, the other “positive” suggestion  — the stickied top post, submitted by one of the forum’s moderators — is pretty transparently intended as a PR move – and an excuse to bash feminists.

Time to get positive. What would help alienated men? (self.MensRights) submitted 20 hours ago * by nicemod - stickied post The recent tragedy in California has focused attention on troubled young men. Attempts by feminists to associate our movement with violence have met with little success, but have drawn many curious people to see what we're about. We can take advantage of this by proposing positive, male-friendly solutions to such problems. Proposals by feminists, based on the false assumption that maleness is inherently bad, will not work. What will? How could society effectively address male problems such as Loneliness Mental illness Alienation from society Virgin shaming Creep shaming Depression Demonisation What other issues need to be looked at? Please discuss.
Yep, “creep shaming.” That’s the problem! Way to cut through all the bullshit and get to the heart of the matter! The problem isn’t that some men — well, a lot of men — think and act in predatory and entitled ways towards women. The problem is that sometimes when they do, women call them “creeps.”

The problem isn’t that the world’s creepiest and most entitled man just killed 6 innocent people, the problem is “creep shaming.”

After killing his roommates and a friend of theirs, Rodger attempted to get inside a sorority so he could massacre the women inside it. But he couldn’t get anyone to let him in. Probably because, well, whoever was nearest the door thought he looked a  bit, well, creepy.

“Creep-shaming” isn’t some insidious form of discrimination against awkward men. It’s a defense mechanism that women develop to protect them against predatory men. And in the case of the Isla Vista murders, I’m guessing that the willingness of women to go with their gut sense that Rodger was a creep literally saved lives.

But the mods of the Men’s Rights subreddit would rather moan about “creep shaming.” They would prefer that women lower their defenses against men like Elliot Rodger — because it hurts their feelings to sometimes get called a “creep.”

Guys, this is why people think Elliot Rodger was an MRA.

EDIT: I added more to the conclusion because I had more to say about creep shaming.

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Ally S
6 years ago

@Anand

MRAs continue to baffle everyone with their terrible sense of humor. Seriously, dude, this is just sad.

bunnybunny
6 years ago

I think the White House probably would lend less thought to this cause than it did to deporting Justin Bieber, Anand.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
6 years ago

After killing his roommates and a friend of theirs, Rodger attempted to get inside a sorority so he could massacre the women inside it. But he couldn’t get anyone to let him in. Probably because, well, whoever was nearest the door thought he looked a bit, well, creepy.

Is it even normal for male students to visit sororities uninvited? I’m not familiar on how this kind of housing works. Apparently, nobody in the sorority knew him, except maybe as “that weird quiet guy who hangs around staring at women and once threw his latte at Kate for no reason”.

Did he pretend to be visiting one of the women living there? Or was it more like, “OPEN THE DOOR DAMMIT I’M ELLIOT RODGER AND YOU’RE BLOCKING MY WAY”?

Anand
Anand
6 years ago

Sadly the petition probably wont be reviewed by the white house due to the lack of votes. Nevertheless, its pure entertainment for me. LOL.

bunnybunny
6 years ago

How exactly is it entertaining? Watching the signatures increase by, what, one person every four and a half hours?

magnesium
magnesium
6 years ago

Hey Anand, are you the same person who keeps spamming that link, or are there a team of you now dedicated to spamming something that has already gotten one person kicked out? Hell, we even discussed your terrible PR skills in the last thread. Thanks for proving my point, though, about how MRA’s will do literally anything for attention except help a man.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Anand, you do realize that Dean Esmay posted that he wants that petition to go through as some kind of ill-advised publicity stunt, right?

Anand
Anand
6 years ago

Magnesium, im not an MRA and this is the first time i posted the link here.

Sparky, i know. I just read that post on avfm.

As a regular reader of this site, i thought i should post it here. I honestly didn’t know many people had the same idea. LOL.

Bunnybunny, read the post by dean esmay on avfm.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Then why would you think we’d do something that Dean Esmay thinks is a good idea?

Stevie
Stevie
6 years ago

Oh, it wasn’t just a publicity stunt; he genuinely believes that if someone in the government had to read ‘A Voice for Men’ then the justice of the MRAs complaints would be obvious and a converted government would save America hand in hand with the MRAs.

It’s a fantasy but Esmay isn’t noted for his rational outlook…

Anand
Anand
6 years ago

Sparky, I just wanted to point it out. I didnt know trolls already did that for me. Way to ruin my fun 😛

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

Go away Anand.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

We’re not here to entertain you, Anand.

Falconer
6 years ago

Oh man, coming into a thread on the morning after a meltdown that resulted in a bannination and posts deleted is a little like archaeology or forensics. I had to reconstruct what happened*, and I don’t have the details exact but what I do have is kind of sickening.

What a sad, sad person.

*Big thanks to whomever it was who described what happened — you just saved me a lot of investigative work! 😛

Hey Argenti! Long time! I take it the relationship is working. Leaving one’s toothbrush at their place is one thing, but booze? That’s a commitment! 😛

Wetherby
Wetherby
6 years ago

What on earth is the point of sockpuppeting if one is determined to act in exactly the same way that resulted in one’s being banned? As disguises go, that is not a particularly effective one. I suppose there might be some satisfaction in requiring that time be taken up with banning one, but really it seems as if there would be more satisfaction in nearly anything else: Pie; flowers; pets; lying in the sun; existing while not being an asshole. Really it is very puzzling.

To be fair to the sock currently known as Blog Herpes, he did a pretty good job. It was glaringly obvious that Steele was a troll for all sorts of reasons (the total lack of logic and consistency being the usual giveaway), and there was a fair bit of speculation as to his identity, but I don’t think anyone successfully outed him before David’s IP check, and he stuck around for months.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

The trolls who claim not to be MRAs might be the most annoying of all. They spout all the talking points and get all “who me?” when called out for it.

Stop trying to trick us into signing that stupid petition Anand. We already know all about it.

Isn’t the grandiosity of Dean Esmay hilarious? He seems to think that if the petition succeeds and the WH has to respond that means Obama is going to call a big press conference and the whole world will have to stop and listen to MRAs. Yeah, right.

Anand
Anand
6 years ago

David, does that post by hellkell count as creep shaming? Be genuine.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Creep-shaming: The worst human rights violation in the history of everything. Like, seriously and fer sure.

Sarcasm, in case it wasn’t apparent.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Why would David care if anyone creep shames? That’s not a thing. Everyone has the right to their boundaries and no one is required to be nice to somebody who is violating them. Creeping isn’t a human right.

By the way, you’re trolling a thread about a misogynistic mass murderer. This is a crime that has upset us a lot. For someone who claims not to be an MRA you sure share a lot in common with them. Like creepiness and lack of empathy.

Fuck off. You’re boring.

Anand
Anand
6 years ago

Wierdwoodtiger, the mass murder is mentioned in the petition.

Im new to creep shaming. I just discovered its existance from david’s article.

For those of you who still havent figured it out. I was satirisising dean esmay through the first post. But nevermind. -_-

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

David, does that post by hellkell count as creep shaming? Be genuine.

LOL, you’re a desperate clown. Here’s a hint: stop being creepy.

Shiraz
Shiraz
6 years ago

Anand thinks of himself as a creep? Well, self-awareness is important.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Anand,

Satire: you’re doing it wrong.

Kootiepatra
Kootiepatra
6 years ago

On an tangentially related note, it seems like cooking up trollish petitions (e.g. “lulz you should check our sites out for ‘terrorism'”) is a great way to get the WH to give up on the current change.org protocol and make it harder to get online petitions through. “This is why we can’t have nice things” and all that.

quietquery
quietquery
6 years ago

Long time lurker, first time posting — I just wanted to say how cathartic it is to see you all giving trolls the smackdown. Especially this week, after everything that’s happened. Thanks for being awesome 🙂

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Anand, you do know we can read the words you posted, right?

Fellow manboobers,
Please sign this petition to declare men’s rights as a terrorist organization. The MRA’s and paul elam himself has already signed it. Now its your turn to save the country from the evils of men having rights.
Many thanks to the feminists who wrote the petition. Please spread the word.
Yours truly,
Creepy Man.

See that sentence I bolded? You talking like feminists are opposed to men having rights? As if that was what feminists’ objections to the MRM was all about?

That belies your “satirical” purpose here.

Anand
Anand
6 years ago

Just to know, did the MRAs themselves make up the petition or was it a feminist as dean esmay claims? Im confused.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Hey Falconer! How are the wee ones? And how are you holding up with that whole mobile twins thing?

So right too, I left my older electric toothbrush there in like a week’s time, 2~3 months later the whiskey got brought over!

Anand
Anand
6 years ago

Sparky, that’s what MRAs claim isnt it?

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Weird wood tiger?

That’s the strangest mangling of my name.

If nobody understood you were doing satire, that means you didn’t do it well. It doesn’t mean everyone was too dense or humorless. We did some great satire of our troll from last night.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

See, Anand is the kind of troll I don’t get: the one who acts like an asshole in one post, then shows up in another and acts like we’re all best buddies.

Racnad,

Why can’t many of you accept that others have different opinions and enjoy lively discussions without degenerating into personal attacks?

1) This is an appallingly dishonest reframing of what happened with Davis.
2) You’re still not entitled to “lively discussion” if the other side doesn’t want one. I know your type: the one who “just likes to debate” and “wants to have his views challenged” so much that he goes around deliberately provoking other people and laughs when they react. Surprise surprise, asshole, women’s lives aren’t your intellectual exercise and not wanting to engage while you debate our humanity isn’t a moral failure on our part.

But between the natural sex drive and popular culture messages suggesting something’s wrong with you if you’re not sexually active, I can imagine what a virgin past the age of 20 must feel.

I actually agree, but it’s not feminism that’s responsible for this messaging. It’s OTHER MEN who decided that having sex was a measure of a man’s masculinity.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Dammit, racnad’s still pooping in the threads.

Why does it have to be about winning? Why can’t many of you accept that others have different opinions and enjoy lively discussions without degenerating into personal attacks?

Did you see the part where Davis was wishing that various commenters here had been shot? The part where Davis was wishing that various commenters here contracted horrible deadly diseases? The part where Davis was explicitly stating that he hated women? The part where Davis said black women were worse than the KKK? The part where Davis said “black gangbangers” caused more damage than the KKK? This is the “difference of opinion” we’re supposed to entertain?

And yes, Davis was asked repeatedly to back up his assertions. He did not, but instead resorted to threats and name calling. For all intents and purposes, Davis was basically conceding to us. We indeed “won.”

Nobody cares about your sexual history. Why do you think any if that is relevant?

Anand
Anand
6 years ago

@wierdwoodtreehugger, blame autocorrect. 😛
Oh well. Point taken.
As you know, im not associated with any labels but its intresting to read up on the MRM and feminism. I just wanted to bring attention to the petition only to find out that the trolls beat me to it. Sucks!
well il go back to being a lurker then.
David, keep writing more articles. Good luck to you.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Yes, Anand, that is what MRAs believe. That’s why, agreeing with them there, isn’t satire. It’s actually the exact opposite of satire.

You should probably look up what satire means before trying to do it.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Why does it have to be about winning? Why can’t many of you accept that others have different opinions and enjoy lively discussions without degenerating into personal attacks?

Oh look, Rancid is back with more of his male entitlement. Not only our men not entitled to our bodies, they are not entitled to our time or deference. When a misogynist comes on a thread about a misogynistic entitled mass murder to troll us about how much he hates women, we are in no required to be respectful. For the bazillionth time, this site is about mocking misogyny. That is clearly stated on the main page. That women are humans isn’t up for debate here. By the way, David deleted many of Davis’ most offensive polls. You missed the fact that he essentially made death threats. Tell me again why we should have been nicer to him?

I actually agree, but it’s not feminism that’s responsible for this messaging. It’s OTHER MEN who decided that having sex was a measure of a man’s masculinity.

It should also be noted that, contrary to the beliefs of “Nice Guys” and MGTOWs virgin shaming is a thing that women can also experience even though we are also subject to slut shaming.

I graduated from high school a virgin who had never had a real boyfriend. It wasn’t a big deal because the same was true of a majority of my friends. But when I got to college all my new friends were more experienced and socially adept than I was. They were all surprised that I was so inexperienced. They never tried to shame me for it, but I still felt bad and like there might have been something wrong with me. Later my freshman year I lost my virginity to the first guy who would have me that I didn’t find gross. I don’t regret that because I don’t have issues with casual sex and I really felt it was the right time for me, but other young women in similar situations do something regret it.

Now I’m rambling. I just hate that assumption sad sack guys always make that only men can be awkward and unsure when it comes to sex and dating.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

Im confused.

Knowing you have a problem is the first step, Anand.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

As you know, im not associated with any labels

Who is this random nobody and why does he assume we’d know things about him?

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

For all of Jezebel’s flaws their coverage of the shooting has been quite good. This post about spending the day lurking in a forum of PUAhate refugees confirms our suspicions that the influx of new trolls has come from there. http://jezebel.com/lessons-from-a-day-spent-with-the-ucsb-shooters-awful-f-1582884301

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
6 years ago

I saw that one, too, weirwoodtreehugger. I’m totally linking to those conversations every time I see another smug troll trying to argue that “no one” in the MRM is condoning Rodger’s actions.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Why does it have to be about winning?

Shut up and go away, Rancid, you insipid little skid mark.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Racnad, you missed the death threats.

David scrubbed them, because wishing death is way over the line.

In fact, civility was pointless, from the get go. We made attempts, elsewhere, and he totally skipped anything nice but counter to his worldview.

Mocking the living day lights out of him was at least cathartic.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Mocking the living day lights out of him was at least cathartic.

I enjoyed it.
Besides, the header does not read : Misogyny, care to tell us about yours? We’d love to listen and then tell you you’re a special misunderstood snowflake. Come closer. You have something on your face. I’ll get that for you. What you’re shoes are untied? We’ll just let me do that for you too!

It says: Misogyny, I mock it.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

*Well*
oops

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

That Jezebel article…hey, it’s OK, I’m sure that there are no women who needed to sleep tonight anyway.

On the troll who got banned, and the one in the other thread who may or may not have been the same person (more likely just from the same forum) – men, including our host, notice how the women on this board were able to spot those guys for what they are pretty much right away, even before they rage-sploded? That’s because our radars for this kind of thing are more finely tuned than yours are, because we have lots of experience being the targets of misogyny. So maybe next time when we say “hey, misogynist ragemonkey who’s clearly trolling here” actually listen to us rather than telling us to be nicer, yeah?

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

This post about spending the day lurking in a forum of PUAhate refugees confirms our suspicions that the influx of new trolls has come from there. http://jezebel.com/lessons-from-a-day-spent-with-the-ucsb-shooters-awful-f-1582884301

I didn’t get far enough to see said confirmation. I made it to ~9am and the guy trying to rally himself and others to “go Elliot” on the 31st, and for the first time in all this I was actually afraid for my safety. Fucking terrorists.

Shiraz
Shiraz
6 years ago

“For all of Jezebel’s flaws their coverage of the shooting has been quite good. This post about spending the day lurking in a forum of PUAhate refugees confirms our suspicions that the influx of new trolls has come from there. http://jezebel.com/lessons-from-a-day-spent-with-the-ucsb-shooters-awful-f-1582884301

That was chilling — though it wasn’t anything anyone here hasn’t heard, unfortunately. They’re pro-rape, want to have sex with preteen virgins, some think shooting sprees are the perfect way to express sexual frustration. At one point, one of the fuckwits posted, “What if (Rodger) had met (George) Sodini?” Like a comic fanboy wondering what would happen if Batman met The Flash.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

@ Shiraz

Did you expand the conversation that’s at the very top of the page? All I can say is, I hope that dude’s about 14 and will learn that other people are in fact people as he gets older, because otherwise he’s another potential shooter in training.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

And I just got to the bit where he says he’s in college. Gonna go hug my cat now.

Alice Sanguinaria
6 years ago

For all of Jezebel’s flaws their coverage of the shooting has been quite good. This post about spending the day lurking in a forum of PUAhate refugees confirms our suspicions that the influx of new trolls has come from there. http://jezebel.com/lessons-from-a-day-spent-with-the-ucsb-shooters-awful-f-1582884301

Well. That was depressing. 🙁

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I probably should have included a trigger warning. Sorry.

What’s even more depressing is that the comment section is full of whiny men who are NAMALTing because the author was so upset by what she was reading that she got expressed anger at all men and directed it at her boyfriend. Because apparently it will scare allies away.

Personally, I think if men are only going to be allies as long as we stay nice and accommodating at all times, they aren’t real allies. Fuck them.

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