The We Hunted the Mammoth Pledge Drive continues! If you haven’t already, please consider sending some bucks my way. (And don’t worry that the PayPal page says Man Boobz.) Thanks! And thanks again to all who’ve already donated.
If anyone was hoping – against their better judgement – that Men’s Rights activists would be inspired by the tragedy in Isla Vista to reconsider any of their beliefs, or even to reflect for a moment on the many striking similarities between passages in Elliot Rodger’s book-length manifesto and comments posted every day by MRAs and others in the manosphere, well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you should not keep that hope alive.
It’s not that they’re not talking about the tragedy. A look through the top 100 posts in the Men’s Rights subreddit, the largest Men’s Rights forum online, reveals that roughly a third of them, including the top stickied post, relate in some way to Elliot Rodger’s rampage and the discussions that have come up online and in the media in its aftermath.
But the message of virtually all of these posts is: “Nothing to see here! Move along!” There are numerous posts expressing outrage that anyone would see any connection between Rodger’s toxic misogyny to the Men’s Rights movement; there are others mocking and attacking the #YesAllWomen hashtag; there’s even one suggesting that Rodger, who wrote about how he longed to watch all the women of the world starve to death in concentration camps, wasn’t actually a misogynist at all.
Take a look. One post, with more than 500 upvotes, complains:
Another post makes a strikingly similar complaint:
One angry MRA asks:
Another wonders:
Sorry to break it to you, fella, but that’s not how defamation suits work. If it were, all of us who call ourselves feminists would be collecting millions of dollars from the Men’s Rights subreddit for all the patently untrue things you guys say about us every day of every week.
Still others make sure that everyone knows that Rodger hated men too – not that this has actually gone unnoticed in the media or in discussions of the tragedy.
And then there’s this fellow, who seems to think that Rodger only hated men, and that his big problem with women was that he loved them too much:
There are, it’s true, two posts that raise the issue of what might be done to prevent tragedies like this from happening in the future. One of them takes on the issue of “virgin shaming.” (Sure, I’m against that, and against slut shaming too. Odd that roughly 100% of the virgin shaming I’ve ever heard in my life has come from MRAs and other non-fans of this blog, even though — sorry to break it to you fellows — I’ve not been a virgin since the early Reagan administration.)
Meanwhile, the other “positive” suggestion — the stickied top post, submitted by one of the forum’s moderators — is pretty transparently intended as a PR move – and an excuse to bash feminists.
Yep, “creep shaming.” That’s the problem! Way to cut through all the bullshit and get to the heart of the matter! The problem isn’t that some men — well, a lot of men — think and act in predatory and entitled ways towards women. The problem is that sometimes when they do, women call them “creeps.”
The problem isn’t that the world’s creepiest and most entitled man just killed 6 innocent people, the problem is “creep shaming.”
After killing his roommates and a friend of theirs, Rodger attempted to get inside a sorority so he could massacre the women inside it. But he couldn’t get anyone to let him in. Probably because, well, whoever was nearest the door thought he looked a bit, well, creepy.
“Creep-shaming” isn’t some insidious form of discrimination against awkward men. It’s a defense mechanism that women develop to protect them against predatory men. And in the case of the Isla Vista murders, I’m guessing that the willingness of women to go with their gut sense that Rodger was a creep literally saved lives.
But the mods of the Men’s Rights subreddit would rather moan about “creep shaming.” They would prefer that women lower their defenses against men like Elliot Rodger — because it hurts their feelings to sometimes get called a “creep.”
Guys, this is why people think Elliot Rodger was an MRA.
EDIT: I added more to the conclusion because I had more to say about creep shaming.
Ha! No problem, J.J. 🙂
I can’t think of chia seeds without hearing ‘Ch-che-che-chia!’ Damn Chia Pet commercials.Can you taste them in yogurt?
KImi found an oatmeal can.
Moldybrehd, if you do manage to scrounge up enough, would you mind giving my partner and I a lift?
I can’t find the flux capacitor for the Delorean and Anakin broke the x-wings, again.
We’ve heard rumors that Dooku is hiding on some planet called ‘Isengard’ and is working on procuring ‘hobbits’. The con up is concerned that these ‘hobbits’ might be dangerous.
@Fugit
Thank you for your mature and thoughtful response.
My solution to prevent these types lf shooting is to encourage men like Rodgers, Powell, and Sodini to stop worrying about if women like them.
Instead of attacking these men like Elliot, we need to reach out to them and tell them the joys of self acceptance, indifference, and no giving a damn about women who do not want them.
MRM is a joke. I have read their BS and watched their videos. They complain and bitch, but they never get any done. If they wanted their goals met about child support, changing laws that allow women to lie on men in court, and etc, they would have done so buy now.
It is pretty easy to get a law on the books that forces judges to punish anyone who lies in court. MRM can’t even get that shit done.
*the council. Sorry for the static. Fett must have taken out the long range transmitter…
Shiraz:
I said:
“While your at it, also prove that our concern for the victims is fake.”
And I’m not Erin! Or Davis! I said it because Davis said our concern for the victims were fake, and I wanted him to prove it (along with proving that we’re just all male-bashers), because he seems to like just throwing out non-sequiturs and not answering anything.
But, I’m really sorry if I said something wrong. I didn’t mean to.
OMG THERE IS A CAT IN AN OATMEAL CAN.
…sorry. I can’t have a cat so I overreact to cute cat things. I love my doggie, but he can’t put himself into small spaces. Sometimes he forgets he isn’t a puppy anymore (he’s four, you’d think he’d figure it out by now) and jumps on me all HI I LOVE YOU. That hurts my chest a lot.
I’m making cupcakes tomorrow. Doggie-dog will get some cream cheese icing for a treat. Mmm.
The immortal question: How do you tell if you succeeded at accomplishing something that’s been around for centuries?
“Won’t somebody please, please think of the hate-filled, entitled, privileged mass murderer!”
In the USA, lying while under oath in court is a punishable crime called “perjury.”
Chia is awesome. If you mix it with vanilla rice milk and leave in the fridge overnight, it makes delicious pudding for breakfast.
@Sparky. When it comes to women lying in court in order to get a restraining on a guy, the woman is rarely punished for it. A woman can nail a guy for child support without proof. When it is discovered that she lied, she does not get punished.
Laws are on the books, but they are not enforced.
Hm… Almost like all of those links on the other thread you conveniently ignored…
False alarm. Turns out hobbits are mostly harmless. However, we did find this ring! I have a bad feeling about it, but it’s quite beautiful, really.
“My solution to prevent these types lf shooting is to encourage men like Rodgers, Powell, and Sodini to stop worrying about if women like them.”
Yes, had unhealthy ideas about women — they were being forced to worry about women by sexist insititutions that said it didn’t matter if you respect women, just as long as you fuck enough of them. Misogynistic sources told them if you didn’t have a living fuck doll your friends were envious of, how could you feel validated as a man?
Davis/troll, you’re trying to word this stuff in such a way that it seems like women are causing this behavior. Rodgers, Powell and Sodini — women were smart enough to stay the fuck away from them. Read the online journals, this is true. Know what? They hurt people anyway. Sexism and gender essentialism was their enemy. Well, also self-entitlement and other toxic tropes shoved down their throats by PUAs and a culture that dictates what “real men” should and should not do. So why stay here and bother a movement that challenges traditional gender roles?
The Sodini case always freaks me out. There were so many commentors on all kinds of sites posting shit like, “Well, I feel the same way he does.” And “Better pay attention, ladies. Put out of die.”
Eeeesh.
I’d like these type of guys to forget women and take up hobbies instead. Sadly, they can’t stop wishing a woman would validate them and solve all their issues.
Davis, the ‘solution’ you propose – of men ignoring women completely – is the exact opposite of a real solution. The real solution is “all men treat women as worthwhile human beings with agency, their own desires, strengths and flaws “, whereas yours is “treat them even more like an evil monolith than currently”. You see the difference? How yours isn’t a solution to anything. No, of course you don’t. You won’t see how my solution benefits you personally so you don’t care.
Making your stated plan of, quote, “Get a law on the books” a bit suspect.
Sparky, did I confuse one of your posts with the troll’s? No worries. You’re fine. We’re fine.
🙂
When it comes to women lying in court in order to get a restraining on a guy, the woman is rarely punished for it.
LOL oh my sides. Much bitter laughter. So out of touch with reality.
@Shiraz
Why would anyone want to be around people who do not like them?
@Kim
My solution prevents death. Men like Rodgers Sodini and Powell are a small minority. If they ignore women and focus on their own lives no one will notice.
You tell us. You’re the one hanging out here.
Davis: Can you prove that women are lying about abuse to get restraining orders placed against men and lying about paternity? And not suffering any consequences for that?
Huh, kind of like this:
What more do you want, Davis?
And can you actually quote anybody here that was bashing men?
And can you explain your racist comment about black women causing more harm than the KKK?
Upon which, troll proves he doesn’t read up on custody/alimony trials:
“When it comes to women lying in court in order to get a restraining on a guy, the woman is rarely punished for it. A woman can nail a guy for child support without proof. When it is discovered that she lied, she does not get punished.
Laws are on the books, but they are not enforced.”
Women lie about wanting protection. Men who father children get nailed for alimony when it’s not there kids?
You fucking made that up. There’s not an alimony case in the world that doesn’t introduce blood/DNA testing when necessary. How could a woman get a protection order without testimony from police?
David! Hello, David. Get this waste of space out of here, please?
Shiraz: Oh good. I was worried I’d done something to insult you. 🙂
Anakin insisted on giving the ring to Padme. Should I be worried?
“Why would anyone want to be around people who do not like them?”
I said repeatedly that you shouldn’t hang with women if you don’t want to. It’s on record. Can’t you fucking read?! You weird-ass fantasies of denying women the pleasure of your company are messing with your reading skills, I guess.
And, once again, why are you trolling us if you feel we don’t like you? Get out, already.
Could it be that you’re a stalker? Yes, you are.