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antifeminism creep-shaming elliot rodger entitled babies entitlement hypocrisy irony alert men who should not ever be with women ever misandry misogyny MRA post contains sarcasm reddit straw feminists the eternal solipsism of the MRA mind

Men's Rights Activists respond to the Elliot Rodger murders with a hearty "Nothing to see here! Move along!"

nothing-to-see-here
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If anyone was hoping – against their better judgement – that Men’s Rights activists would be inspired by the tragedy in Isla Vista to reconsider any of their beliefs, or even to reflect for a moment on the many striking similarities between passages in Elliot Rodger’s book-length manifesto and comments posted every day by MRAs and others in the manosphere, well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you should not keep that hope alive.

It’s not that they’re not talking about the tragedy. A look through the top 100 posts in the Men’s Rights subreddit, the largest Men’s Rights forum online, reveals that roughly a third of them, including the top stickied post, relate in some way to Elliot Rodger’s rampage and the discussions that have come up online and in the media in its aftermath.

But the message of virtually all of these posts is: “Nothing to see here! Move along!” There are numerous posts expressing outrage that anyone would see any connection between Rodger’s toxic misogyny to the Men’s Rights movement; there are others mocking and attacking the #YesAllWomen hashtag; there’s even one suggesting that Rodger, who wrote about how he longed to watch all the women of the world starve to death in concentration camps, wasn’t actually a misogynist at all.

Take a look. One post, with more than 500 upvotes, complains:

Feminists highjack what should be a Mental Health issue.
Another post makes a strikingly similar complaint:

Feminists Hijack A Mass Murder To Boost Self-Esteem
One angry MRA asks:

Why am I being compared to a mentally ill, narcissistic, racist, misogynist, sociopathic serial killer?
Another wonders:

So at this point would it be worth it to look into a Defamation suit against those trying to link MRA's with the recent tragedy?

Sorry to break it to you, fella, but that’s not how defamation suits work. If it were, all of us who call ourselves feminists would be collecting millions of dollars from the Men’s Rights subreddit for all the patently untrue things you guys say about us every day of every week.

Still others make sure that everyone knows that Rodger hated men too – not that this has actually gone unnoticed in the media or in discussions of the tragedy.

Proof that Elliot Rodger Hates Men
Finally! The MSM acknowledges that Elliot Roger hated *MEN*

And then there’s this fellow, who seems to think that Rodger only hated men, and that his big problem with women was that he loved them too much:

Elliot Rodgers the Misandrist. (self.MensRights) submitted 13 hours ago by TheWhimsicalFox In listening to Elliot's videos, and reading some of his manifesto, I almost feel as if this guy really just hated men. It seems as if he put women on a pedestal and held such an adoration for them that he could not understand how the "beasts" (among other terms)/men got to date them. This is a totally new idea for me, I haven't really thought it through for longer than a minute or two. So that's why I'm taking it here. What do you guys think?
There are, it’s true, two posts that raise the issue of what might be done to prevent tragedies like this from happening in the future. One of them takes on the issue of “virgin shaming.” (Sure, I’m against that, and against slut shaming too. Odd that roughly 100% of the virgin shaming I’ve ever heard in my life has come from MRAs and other non-fans of this blog, even though — sorry to break it to you fellows — I’ve not been a virgin since the early Reagan administration.)

Meanwhile, the other “positive” suggestion  — the stickied top post, submitted by one of the forum’s moderators — is pretty transparently intended as a PR move – and an excuse to bash feminists.

Time to get positive. What would help alienated men? (self.MensRights) submitted 20 hours ago * by nicemod - stickied post The recent tragedy in California has focused attention on troubled young men. Attempts by feminists to associate our movement with violence have met with little success, but have drawn many curious people to see what we're about. We can take advantage of this by proposing positive, male-friendly solutions to such problems. Proposals by feminists, based on the false assumption that maleness is inherently bad, will not work. What will? How could society effectively address male problems such as Loneliness Mental illness Alienation from society Virgin shaming Creep shaming Depression Demonisation What other issues need to be looked at? Please discuss.
Yep, “creep shaming.” That’s the problem! Way to cut through all the bullshit and get to the heart of the matter! The problem isn’t that some men — well, a lot of men — think and act in predatory and entitled ways towards women. The problem is that sometimes when they do, women call them “creeps.”

The problem isn’t that the world’s creepiest and most entitled man just killed 6 innocent people, the problem is “creep shaming.”

After killing his roommates and a friend of theirs, Rodger attempted to get inside a sorority so he could massacre the women inside it. But he couldn’t get anyone to let him in. Probably because, well, whoever was nearest the door thought he looked a  bit, well, creepy.

“Creep-shaming” isn’t some insidious form of discrimination against awkward men. It’s a defense mechanism that women develop to protect them against predatory men. And in the case of the Isla Vista murders, I’m guessing that the willingness of women to go with their gut sense that Rodger was a creep literally saved lives.

But the mods of the Men’s Rights subreddit would rather moan about “creep shaming.” They would prefer that women lower their defenses against men like Elliot Rodger — because it hurts their feelings to sometimes get called a “creep.”

Guys, this is why people think Elliot Rodger was an MRA.

EDIT: I added more to the conclusion because I had more to say about creep shaming.

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dustedeste
dustedeste
6 years ago

HEY ASSHOLE I TOLD YOU TO USE MY WHOLE NYM YOU FUCKING DISRESPECTFUL, PATHETIC SHITBAG.

katz
6 years ago

Wait, if Davis stopped being friends with women in 2007, and stopped being friends with women when he was 16, and he’s now, what, 38, does that mean he is a time traveler?

It’s almost like he’s actually 23.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

I’m really pissing you off, aren’t I, Davis.

Dance, troll, dance.

You’re just proving us right with every post, creep.

bbeaty
bbeaty
6 years ago

@cassanrdkitty, it’s not his fault. He’s “socially awkward.”

And besides women are so mean to him for no reason whatsoever.

J.J
J.J
6 years ago

Oh ho ho. Really? So because you don’t like what I have to say, I should be shot. Oh, yeah, you’re totally different from Elliot and the type of MRA who want to kill women who don’t sit down and shut up for them. You’re pathetic.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

This is really friggin’ funny. It’s like teasing a dog with a treat, except I like dogs and so I would feel bad about baiting one.

But it’s so accurate. My childhood cat used to tease our neighbor’s dog Billy, a sweet but hyper terrier mercilessly. Billy would be outside on a long leash because the yard didn’t have a fence. Whiskers would calmly sit just outside the reach of the leash. Poor dumb Billy would try to run at him, barking frantically and practically choking himself.

Davis reminds me a lot of Billy. Except Billy was cute, nice and fun. Davis is none of those things.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Remember, everyone, the MRM is really about men improving themselves and learning not to care about what women think about them.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

We have a melting troll on the thread!

I hadn’t even bought a canary yet. The old doctor assures me that trolls hate canaries. I suppose I shall save some coin, then, on cute little singing birds.

I’m going out on another mission! The council is still really ticked about the whole dark-lord thing. They are sending us to recruit the Wizard Derk. Apparently, he was once a most sucessful dark lord.

His flying pigs are just precious.

bbeaty
bbeaty
6 years ago

“Remember, everyone, the MRM is really about men improving themselves and learning not to care about what women think about them.”

And human rights. Don’t forget human rights.

dustedeste
dustedeste
6 years ago

I won’t lie; I’mma enjoy the descent of the banhammer on this one. He’s a right little prick. Can’t even keep his word, let alone keep his story straight.

Rage on, little asshole, rage on against the world. Your rage don’t mean a thing, in the end; and between the world and your rage, you’ll be devoured.

pecunium
6 years ago

How is that defending the shooter. If Elliot did what I did, he would have never ahot those people.

So you are like him. Good to know.

And saying that he shot people only because he didn’t “do what you did” means that you were like him, and since you are a decent guy he was, at heart, a decent guy.

So you are excusing him.

BTW, what do you think the Police ought to have done? Held him for 72 hours on a 5150 because they got a complaint? Seized his computer to search for bad things?

Tossed his place looking for a reason to haul him in (in the absence of a warrant, or any other sort of probably cause)?

Do elaborate.

hippodameia8527
hippodameia8527
6 years ago

Erin, I was pretty sure you’d come crawling back. You are beyond pathetic and accelerating.

dustedeste
dustedeste
6 years ago

Ooooh, Wizard Dirk! I think you might do better with one of his daughters, actually; I hear they’re pretty badass.

pecunium
6 years ago

Davis: What happened to people being held accountable for their own action?

Nothing. The MRM incites men to violence. One of their acolytes committed violence because he hated women. His justifications for his hatred were part and parcel of the general mantra of the MRM, and used MRA language.

We are, as a result, holding them accountable.

Just as you say we should.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Yeah, I do hope stupid creep isn’t upsetting anyone.

But really, man comes on thread about man killing people because he hates women. Man states he hates women, says he wish people on thread were shot.

Cheese and crackers.

It’s only a matter of time until the Banhammer Mammoth descends.

pecunium
6 years ago

Ah, then I can go to bed. Night all.

dustedeste
dustedeste
6 years ago

I’mma hit the sack, too; first day at the new job in the morning!

hippodameia8527
hippodameia8527
6 years ago

Thank you David!

pecunium
6 years ago

But really, man comes on thread about man killing people because he hates women. Man states he hates women, says he wish people on thread were shot.

Crap. I didn’t realise I was so close to right when I said that.

Apologies if it made anything worse for anyone.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

@Dustedeste

Zounds! You’re right. I’ll file an inquiry. The BPRD ordered some time turners in 2007, and the order came in one short.

I’d investigate myself, but I’m having some troubles with tourists. They’re convinced Derk is still Darklord. I forgot my zap penlight of forget-ness with K, so I’m having to be sneaky.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Was he a sock David? He claimed to have been banned 8 times.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

There’s something especially pathetic about coming back to a blog you’ve already been banned from 8 times. Get a new hobby, kid.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Oh, too late! Thanks David!

I love the ban hammer, so much.

dustedeste
dustedeste
6 years ago

Ugh, tourists; I feel your pain there, contrapangloss 😛

cloudiah
6 years ago

Thanks, David. Please feel free to delete my quotes of him.

While I found it amusing that we had total control over his behavior, I think other priorities are more important.

J.J
J.J
6 years ago

Yay he’s gone! My first real Mammoth troll. And he even said I should have died! *giggles forever*

Okay, now I should probably go to sleep ’cause OMG CUPCAKES TOMORROW! Who likes red velvet and cream cheese frosting?

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

*waves* hi pecunium, email me, we have stuff and things to discuss!

Everyone — I’m off to bed too, getting more teeth drilled tomorrow >.<

bbeaty
bbeaty
6 years ago

I’m off, too. I hope no one was too upset by the troll. But I found that to be a pretty amusing meltdown.

bbeaty
bbeaty
6 years ago

David, I am sure I am a good bit older than you, but your comment when you came back made me feel like a kid caught teasing the dog until someone tripped and broke a lamp (not that I know how that feels).

I almost expected you to say “This is why we can’t have nice things.”

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Thanks for being amazing, everyone! Have good sleeps!

Well, except the troll. You are not amazing. Troll, thanks for ignoring everything serious everyone posted. You were a hilariously awful person. Have a dull, average, mediocre night!

Trying to be as ridiculous as you was quite fun!

contrapangloss
6 years ago

David, I’ll try to get somewhere with internet not on my phone, tomorrow. I owe you for dealing with trolls like this, and my own silliness.

Tough job, for sure!

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Thank you David. You run a fine blog.
Mammotheers, you are delightful.
‘Night all.

katz
6 years ago

I honestly think it’s possible that this moron wasn’t a returning troll and only said he was because he wanted to “prove” that we couldn’t keep him away.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Katz,

It would not surprise me.

racnad
racnad
6 years ago

“@Davis, If you keep coming back, you are acknowledging that we control your behavior. We’ve won.”

Why does it have to be about winning? Why can’t many of you accept that others have different opinions and enjoy lively discussions without degenerating into personal attacks?

Shiraz
Shiraz
6 years ago

Actually, I thought he was scary — and in fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if he had stalked people in real life. He had that, “I’m gonna sit on your lawn until you tell me what I want to hear” vibe. That kind of boundary-pushing, misogynistic venom that freaks women out in meatspace.
Actually, David could do a post about it. “Don’t Be These Guys,” could be the header. The trolls of late have been ringing endorsements for why being sexist (MRA/PUA) is so fucking uncool and freaky.
He kept insisting Rodger had nothing to do with MRA. The other troll, can’t remember his name, was more concerned for PUA. I’m kind of pissed that that asshole troll, plucky or whatever, was in the other thread demanding that feminism basically focus on men’s rights –(here’s a clue, it’s not suppose to) When in fact, all he knew about actuall feminism was made out of fucking straw. I mean, this recent crop of trolls is the most angry and self-entitled I’ve seen. Cross traffic from all the Rodger apologists?

kittehserf
6 years ago

Were you here in the days of the blog herpes, Shiraz? He had a Ph D in Angry, Entitled and Stalkerish. So did ones like DKM and NWO – but they expressed it differently, probably because they were older than this lot (and those two in particular had more weird between them than anyone else I can think of). None of them know a thing about feminism, they’re just enraged that anything gives women the idea we can say No to any man about anything, that we can be the centre of any conversations, that we aren’t their property any more. None of them see us as human, however they frame it.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
6 years ago

After Sodini’s attack, the feminist blogosphere was the only place discussing the obvious misogynist source. The MSM salivated over his manifesto for a few days and then immediately forgot about him without making a real connection to our culture’s problem with male entitlement and toxic masculinity. No one that I’ve talked to about Rodger even remembers George Sodini. They don’t remember Charles Carl Roberts, who separated the boys and girls in an Amish schoolhouse and then shot all of the girls. They don’t remember Marc Lepine. They never heard of Thomas Ball.

But this time, the thread of misogyny is being discussed by the MSM. The MRM is being exposed to the masses as the cesspool of abusers and terrorists that it is. I see a glimmer of progress.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

JJ, what kind of dog do you have? Dogs seem to have a habit of not realizing how big they’ve gotten. My Border Collie used to try to fit in my lap, which was about half as big as he needed. So he’d flop his front half in, roll over for belly rubs, flop his front half out so his butt was front and center for scritches.

He also thought he was a cat. We even caught him standing on the table once.

Laws are on the books, but they are not enforced.

Which was not a problem for you when it was just rape and murder we were talking about, but lying about paternity is serious business!

Why would anyone want to be around people who do not like them?

THIS HAS BEEN ADDRESSED AT LEAST A DOZEN TIMES. It’s almost like you don’t actually care to hear an answer.

Shiraz, you’re a fucking bitch.

All the things people have said to you, and being called boring is what brings out the rage? LOL.

Also, you’re a fucking misogynist.

I will just come back.

So you admit all that bullshit about the lengths you go to to avoid women was just bullshit posturing? I am so shocked, let me tell you.

Also, this is some stalkery, boundary-ignoring, rapey shit and there’s not enough ~creep shaming~ in the world for you right now.

When Fugit disagreed with me, he or she was respectful about it.

I don’t know why I keep asking this of tone trolls, since they never answer, but: why do you think you’re entitled to a respectful reply? Why is it OK for you to insult us, but not for us to insult you?

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

Katz, I have been banned eight times. I always come back.

Oh my god, that’s just sad. In an “I’m LOLing IRL” sort of way, but still…

racnad
racnad
6 years ago

The original post mentions virgin-shaming. I think it’s worth it to examine how popular culture promotes the notion that being sexually active is part of the definition of being an adult. In the 1950s and before, there was a strong idea that one was supposed to be a virgin until marriage. Not everyone held out, but there was less shame in being 25 years old with no sexual experience. But since the 1970s and 80s, it’s assumed that “all the kids are having sex” starting in early high school or middle school, TV and movies portray girlfriends and hooks-ups as being fairly easy to get (they’re not for a large percentage of guys). When someone at work was in a bad mood, both men and women might joke that the person “needs to get laid.” Though I might get flamed for saying this, some women have told me that a reason “nice guys” are turned down is sometimes because not-nice guys are perceived and being more sexually experienced and would be better in bed. (This was in the 80s-90s before the Nice Guy(tm) meme was invented.)

While I didn’t have a whole lot of sex before I was 30, I did have some (with long dry spells), going back to before I was 18, so I didn’t see myself in the “Last American Virgin” club (that was actually the title of a 1980s teenage sex comedy). But between the natural sex drive and popular culture messages suggesting something’s wrong with you if you’re not sexually active, I can imagine what a virgin past the age of 20 must feel.

No the solution is not some sort of sexual affirmative action plan. Nor does this justify the actions of Eliot Rogers or the hateful MGTOW videos I put myself through listening to for the first time yesterday.

Shiraz
Shiraz
6 years ago

I don’t believe I was around for blog herpes, kitteh. Errr, was that his handle?

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

Got eat out Shira so she can give you HIV.

1) Lesbian sex much insult wow
2) HIV does not work that way.

And now I reach the part where he’s b& (again). But since he’s almost certainly still reading, I’ll go ahead and point out that he was a sad, pathetic little man. Even my socially awkward almost-fiancee (who obviously can’t get women, because socially awkward) thought he was funny, and he usually just smiles politely when I talk about our trolls.

Deste, I hope your first day is going/went well! (IDK what time zone you’re in)

If he was, seems like kind of a stupid hobby.

You say “hobby”, I say “rage and boundary issues”. Tomayto/tomahto.

I honestly think it’s possible that this moron wasn’t a returning troll and only said he was because he wanted to “prove” that we couldn’t keep him away.

We did have that one guy recently complain about being re-banned every time he tries to post here, and David was like “that’s because you’re banned, dummy”. Can’t remember if he was as angry as this guy, though.

After Sodini’s attack, the feminist blogosphere was the only place discussing the obvious misogynist source. The MSM salivated over his manifesto for a few days and then immediately forgot about him without making a real connection to our culture’s problem with male entitlement and toxic masculinity. No one that I’ve talked to about Rodger even remembers George Sodini. They don’t remember Charles Carl Roberts, who separated the boys and girls in an Amish schoolhouse and then shot all of the girls. They don’t remember Marc Lepine. They never heard of Thomas Ball.

Do you remember those Loony Tunes cartoons with the singing frog? He would sing and dance, but only in front of one character, and whenever the character tried to claim he had a singing, dancing frog, the frog would just sit there and people would decide the character was crazy. That’s how I feel when I try to talk about the common thread joinging these killers, or sometimes misogyny in general: it’s so goddamn obvious to me, but other people think I’m seeing things.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

@Shiraz, a post about Blog Herpes

We need a wiki or something.

Ledasmom
Ledasmom
6 years ago

What on earth is the point of sockpuppeting if one is determined to act in exactly the same way that resulted in one’s being banned? As disguises go, that is not a particularly effective one. I suppose there might be some satisfaction in requiring that time be taken up with banning one, but really it seems as if there would be more satisfaction in nearly anything else: Pie; flowers; pets; lying in the sun; existing while not being an asshole. Really it is very puzzling.

GeeOPee (@Gee_O_Pee)
6 years ago

New to this blog. I’ve never heard of some these anti-woman websites until this latest mass shooting. Glad this blog is here documenting and shaming the misogynists. Well done David.

Anand
Anand
6 years ago

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/classify-mens-rights-movement-terrorist-group/W5018W63

Fellow manboobers,
Please sign this petition to declare men’s rights as a terrorist organization. The MRA’s and paul elam himself has already signed it. Now its your turn to save the country from the evils of men having rights. Many thanks to the feminists who wrote the petition. Please spread the word.
Yours truly,
Creepy Man.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

emilygoddess said:

That’s how I feel when I try to talk about the common thread joinging these killers, or sometimes misogyny in general: it’s so goddamn obvious to me, but other people think I’m seeing things.

My house has a nice, big sunny back patio that attracts all kinds of animal life when the weather is nice – lizards in particular. Occasionally, if one of my kids leaves the door open too long, one of these little guys will skitter into the house. For obvious reasons I don’t want wild reptiles running free in my home, so I get to suspend whatever it was I was doing and chase them around with a shoebox. My dog, who is a fearsome predator of most small things, will sit idly by, more interested in napping or playing with her tug rope than catching the intruder. One time a skink literally ran over her front paws in an attempt to escape my Shoebox of Doom, and her response was a look that translated to “meh.”

So I kind of think that the broader world’s reaction to misogyny is kind of like my dog’s response to lizard home invasions: at most they’ll acknowledge it exists, but they’re usually more comfortable distracting themselves with other stuff because acknowledgement means they might actually have to do something.

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