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If anyone was hoping – against their better judgement – that Men’s Rights activists would be inspired by the tragedy in Isla Vista to reconsider any of their beliefs, or even to reflect for a moment on the many striking similarities between passages in Elliot Rodger’s book-length manifesto and comments posted every day by MRAs and others in the manosphere, well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you should not keep that hope alive.
It’s not that they’re not talking about the tragedy. A look through the top 100 posts in the Men’s Rights subreddit, the largest Men’s Rights forum online, reveals that roughly a third of them, including the top stickied post, relate in some way to Elliot Rodger’s rampage and the discussions that have come up online and in the media in its aftermath.
But the message of virtually all of these posts is: “Nothing to see here! Move along!” There are numerous posts expressing outrage that anyone would see any connection between Rodger’s toxic misogyny to the Men’s Rights movement; there are others mocking and attacking the #YesAllWomen hashtag; there’s even one suggesting that Rodger, who wrote about how he longed to watch all the women of the world starve to death in concentration camps, wasn’t actually a misogynist at all.
Take a look. One post, with more than 500 upvotes, complains:
Another post makes a strikingly similar complaint:
One angry MRA asks:
Another wonders:
Sorry to break it to you, fella, but that’s not how defamation suits work. If it were, all of us who call ourselves feminists would be collecting millions of dollars from the Men’s Rights subreddit for all the patently untrue things you guys say about us every day of every week.
Still others make sure that everyone knows that Rodger hated men too – not that this has actually gone unnoticed in the media or in discussions of the tragedy.
And then there’s this fellow, who seems to think that Rodger only hated men, and that his big problem with women was that he loved them too much:
There are, it’s true, two posts that raise the issue of what might be done to prevent tragedies like this from happening in the future. One of them takes on the issue of “virgin shaming.” (Sure, I’m against that, and against slut shaming too. Odd that roughly 100% of the virgin shaming I’ve ever heard in my life has come from MRAs and other non-fans of this blog, even though — sorry to break it to you fellows — I’ve not been a virgin since the early Reagan administration.)
Meanwhile, the other “positive” suggestion — the stickied top post, submitted by one of the forum’s moderators — is pretty transparently intended as a PR move – and an excuse to bash feminists.
Yep, “creep shaming.” That’s the problem! Way to cut through all the bullshit and get to the heart of the matter! The problem isn’t that some men — well, a lot of men — think and act in predatory and entitled ways towards women. The problem is that sometimes when they do, women call them “creeps.”
The problem isn’t that the world’s creepiest and most entitled man just killed 6 innocent people, the problem is “creep shaming.”
After killing his roommates and a friend of theirs, Rodger attempted to get inside a sorority so he could massacre the women inside it. But he couldn’t get anyone to let him in. Probably because, well, whoever was nearest the door thought he looked a bit, well, creepy.
“Creep-shaming” isn’t some insidious form of discrimination against awkward men. It’s a defense mechanism that women develop to protect them against predatory men. And in the case of the Isla Vista murders, I’m guessing that the willingness of women to go with their gut sense that Rodger was a creep literally saved lives.
But the mods of the Men’s Rights subreddit would rather moan about “creep shaming.” They would prefer that women lower their defenses against men like Elliot Rodger — because it hurts their feelings to sometimes get called a “creep.”
Guys, this is why people think Elliot Rodger was an MRA.
EDIT: I added more to the conclusion because I had more to say about creep shaming.
Erin or Farmer Joe or Davis or whoever you are, am I to understand that your solution to violence against women is for all men who don’t have a bevy of blonde sorority girls to have sex with and all men who ever had a bad experience with a girl in his teens should cut off all contact, even business or platonic contact with all women. That’s a reasonable solution to you?
What about domestic violence? What’s your solution to that? What excuse do men who commit violence against their girlfriends or wives have.
And yes you are defending Rodgers by saying that having a bad experience with women whether it was real or perceived justifies misogyny.
@Cloudiah
The deputies could looked around his apartment. Like I said, you folks blame MRA sites for everything that happens to women.
FYI, Elliot killed more men than women.
@Suzy
Oh yeah this is definitely not just on the manosphere. In fact I’ve not gone to any manosphere sites the past few days. The denial is all over my facebook and in comment sections which I can only skim before my brain leaks from my ears. Also to clarify, I don’t think misogyny was the only thing at play here, this was clearly a disturbed individual on all levels, but misogyny was a big factor.
@KenL
what gets me though is that even if they don’t see it, women are telling them, and they still deny it or dismiss it as overreacting. They deny it even when they see it in cases like these. How much more do we have to do to make them see it?
In all honesty if this shit keeps happening, then I can see many more women becoming more guarded and cautious. Which of course is going to piss off those particular types of dudes who only give a shit that their boners aren’t being catered to, rather than examining WHY women are not being receptive. Watch all the insults of “bitchy” and “ice queen” double.
No one is claiming they’re at fault for his actions but everything he had to say was straight out of the MRM rule book. That’s where he got his ideas. They are responsible for encouraging his hatred of women and promoting violence against women. That’s what they do.
@treehugger.
What’s wrong with cutting off contact with people who do not like you?
ELLIOT KILLED MORE MEN THAN WOMEN BECAUSE HE WAS UNSUCCESSFUL IN SHOOTING UP A SORORITY FULL OF WOMEN. HAD HE SUCCEEDED HE WOULD HAVE KILLED AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF WOMEN.
How many times are we going to have to repeat this?
I’m going to have a drink. Anyone else?
Did the MRA site members tell Elliot to shoot innocent people. If they did, you need to take screen shots and report them to the police.
YES. TWO DRINKS.
Actually, I think it’s a good idea Davis tries not to associate with women. Why? Read all of his posts. Also, the short temper thing. I mean, if a woman somewhere made fun of him, he might have to remind her that he owns a gun shop or something.
@Davis/Erin/Whoever, You have a very inaccurate understanding of what the SBSD could have done. But sure, keep fixating on that, rather than the real problem. It seems to be something you’re very good at.
David has dealt with this. Numerous commenters have dealt with this.
He intended to slaughter (his words) every single woman in a sorority house. That was his goal. He was thwarted, when he couldn’t gain entry. The gender breakdown of his victims would have been totally different if it weren’t for that.
But sure, keep hand-waving away his stated motivation and intent, and focus on irrelevant things like the fact that SBSD were not psychic.
Good gravy, a cursory Google search will reveal a bevy of examples of MRM site posters discussing the value of violence against women and when killing them is justified.
@Cloudiah
You keep blaming MRA sites for something they are not responsible for, but you give the SBSD a pass for not being more thorough.
“The deputies could looked around his apartment.”
You mean and then find the manifesto? Unless he was stupid enough to leave a print copy on the coffee table, nope. Welfare check =/= search warrant. But if the place was suitable for human habitation and he wasn’t an obvious danger to anyone, then no, they didn’t fail at their jobs. You don’t get to search the apt of an adult just because zir parents think it might be a good idea, you really want to set that precedent?
Which probably would’ve required a search warrant. Which they didn’t have.
Because MRA sites peddle the same kind of misogyny that Rodger’s espoused, and that harms women every day.
BUT HE KILLED PEOPLE BECAUSE HE HATED WOMEN! THAT WAS HIS MOTIVE! THE ONLY REASON HE DIDN’T KILL MORE WOMEN WAS BECAUSE THEY WOULDN’T LET HIM IN THE DOOR OF THE SORORITY HOUSE!
Sorry for shouting, everyone, but cheese and crackers how many times do people have to say this?
OMG guys. Davis is so wise. Nobody has ever made this incredibly original point before!
Everyone gets hurt at some point. The only way your solution works is if men and women are cordoned of on separate continents. Even that doesn’t work because gay, lesbian and bi people get hurt by members of their own sex.
Your solution is incredibly stupid.
David, and the wonderful people of this website- thank you from the bottom of my heart. I was introduced to “The Manoshpere” two years ago after being “plated” and subsequently physically and emotionally abused by several different PUA’s. This website has been an oasis of rational thought and humor as I try to heal from the horribly toxic situations I fell prey to. I’ve been haunted by the demoralizing things that were said to me, and demanded of me. It’s taken me a while to find the courage to introduce myself here. I was targeted the instant I joined OKCupid by a well- known and oft mentioned professional PUA that is a major contributor to a rather infamous website that I will not name. I wrestle with the psychological aftermath the interaction with this person has left upon my psyche. Thank you for leading me to the path of healing. Forgive any breach of posting protocol, I am an avid fan and supporter.
Why is all my booze at my BF’s?! Someone teleport me vodka, stat!
Fuck the vodka, we need a welcome package first!
Treehugger
I am 38 years old and I never had sex. Just because a guy no longer wants to deal with women doesn’t make him gay.
Did someone call for a Welcome Package?
Petition available to classify the MRA as a terrorist group is available for those that feel compelled to sign https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/classify-mens-rights-movement-terrorist-group/W5018W63
Which bears absolutely no connection to what weirwoodtreehugger said, but thanks for that non sequitur.
@Pink
Why do we need to classify a group of frustrated ass pathetic men as terrorist?
They have a right to spew their stupidity just like everyone else.
@pinkfluffyunicrone, A Voice for Men is promoting that petition. And while MRAs are hateful bigots, they’re too unorganized to constitute a terrorist group. I wouldn’t endorse that petition, personally.