Here’s a horrible comment from Reddit’s always horrible White Rights subreddit that reveals some of the ways that the central ideas and obsessions of the manosphere are oozing their way into the thinking, such as it is, of the racist right. Birds of a feather flock together, and I guess the same is true of hateful shitheads.
What’s interesting to me is how easily Mr. Saturnine83 here is able to take the traditional racist paranoia about white women not popping out enough white babies to keep the white race going and make the whole “problem” about stuck-up ladies who won’t date him decent white men. For those filling out bingo cards, note the references to”disposible” men and “involuntary celibacy.”
Oh, we have no doubt you could go on and on endlessly. Guys like you always can.
If you’re interested in exploring further connections between “Men’s Rights” and “White Rights,” check out the MRMorWhiteRights subreddit, which tracks this stuff in an entertaining way, and which is where I found the link to Saturnine83’s little screed.
Michelle, all the pain-free hugs I can administer, if you want them. I can’t even imagine dealing with all that. All I can say is, I’m glad you do have people (family, in this case) and you’re helping each other.
Lids:
That was pretty much my first image! As played by Patrick Stewart. Or maybe Christopher Eccleston. Except not, now I know he was Native American.
FUCKING CUMBERBATCH.
I’m sorry, I’m sure he’s a very nice fellow, but I have a very low fandom saturation point and I never, ever want to see that man’s face ever again. *got swamped with it online before finding ways to avoid it*
I’m with you, LBT. If I never saw that pasty man with his weird face again, I wouldn’t mind in the least.
That video is amazing. I love the ‘bro’ and attempted fist bump, so, so much. I’ll admit that I started cackling at the only ‘86% European’ part, though.
He looked so mad, in the ‘I don’t really want to look mad on national tv so I’m trying to smile instead’ kind of way…
Bwahahaha!!!
@katz
“Oil and water don’t mix.” Oh, wow, that was beautiful! Thank you!
14%? That’s really not too many generations old. LOL!
@Kittehserf – Thank you.
Yeah, I’m definitely going to have to write this guy, next time I need such a character. Hmmm, Patrick Stewart or Christopher Eccleston? Cool. Or maybe, RICARDO MONTELBAN! (He’s in my head right now. That man was HOT!)
Actually, I am not well-versed enough in any particular Native American tribe to write him as such, at least not without a whole lot of research, first, so Stewart or Eccleston, or someone else of their ilk might be just the thing. Of course, in my head, he could be anybody. Maybe a nice amalgam.
I tried writing a part-Hispanic character, and realized I was appropriating and would have to change that. I’m not good enough of a writer to go there. Write what you know, right? So, she’s white, now. A Texan, who really loves Tex-Mex food, and has enough Hispanic and Black friends to really miss them when she’s stuck in a white-washed world. Fortunately, the world isn’t entirely white, and just seeing POC reminds her of home. Comforting, yet upsetting at the same time.
Hold on. I’ve been trying to figure out how far back in the generational chart this goes. 14% is greater than 1/8, which means it must have come from multiple sources! BWAHAHAHAHAAAAA That just makes it better, somehow.
Of course, that means it goes back a bit further, but still, more people in his line than just the one “full” black that ought to be identifiable 3 generations back, as an even 1/8 would be. If it were less than 1/8, then that would imply that 3 generations back, there was a partially (but mostly, by percentage) black person. But since it’s actually greater than 1/8 (12.5%), that looks like multiple sources at the 3rd generational level. Or some other combination somewhere up or down the line.
Oh, the look on his face, as he was trying to deny it. “Statistical noise?” At 14%? Math, much?
I thought hypergamy was a totally nonfeminist thing that antifeminists advocate for, like, I don’t know, that batshit white lady Phyllis Schaffly, who, shockingly, is still alive. She and many many MRAs strongly advocate for hypergamy.
I think these folks need to start reading each other’s memos or something.
…That sounds an awful lot like just not writing minority characters.
Oh, the followup. Disturbing, but not surprising. His house was vandalized by one of his former followers, in a racial hate-crime.
I find that less funny.
I wonder if in these guys minds I’m supposed to breed. On the one hand, I’m white. On the other hand, I have Native American ancestry and that ancestry is from my maternal line so the non-European part of my DNA is misandry! That makes me happy.
@katz – not for the point-of-view character.
I can observe how someone acts, and write what I see. However, putting myself inside that person’s head is whole different thing. I’m just not experienced enough for that.
Yet.
LOTS of research would be required before I would feel up to that task. I’m still learning about my own white privilege, and if I tried writing a non-white as a POV character, I’d surely come off as appropriative and offensive.
Now, in a fantasy world, where the experiences are different for everyone, that would be different, but it would have to be a sufficiently new fantasy world, not just based on the history of Earth, as we know it. I’d have to create entirely new cultures to be able to do that.
Of course, there is always the omniscient outside narrator style of writing, where no character has a point of view.
I spent almost a decade living in Europe, and got to know lots of the people in Germany and the Netherlands quite well. I wouldn’t write them as POV, though I would write them as major characters, should they fit the story.
George R.R. Martin I am not.
RE: Michelle
Hey, from one writer to another. I been writing a while, selling stories for a while. And as someone unpacking his own racist bullshit, I can tell you that research won’t solve the problem. You WILL screw up. You WILL be offensive and appropriative. I know I have!
That’s kind of part of the process of learning your mistakes. Avoiding writing all POC in POV roles will not solve that problem, only prolong it. You’ll just get stuck writing characters very similar to yourself, and that’s boring, both for writers and their audiences.
I started writing characters the way I do because when I was a kid, I hated that all the fantasy and sci-fi novels I read starred white people. I love the poetry of ysabetwordsmith because it tears that to shreds. I know that I still screw up, but as I fail, I learn, and I get better.
@LBT – Oooh! Thanks for that link. I’m adding it to my writing bookmarks.
I actually have several bookmarks with information on how to write POC, and hope to be able to incorporate that into my work in the future, when I’ve grown a bit more, as a writer, so more resources is good.
And thanks for the encouragement to face it, and do it.
I just don’t feel ready for it, yet, which is why I changed my current protagonist. I actually started out basing her on a friend, but as I wrote more, she morphed, and I realized that I wasn’t going to get her right, as Hispanic, so I might as well let her morph into the white person she was becoming.
Yeah, writing various versions of myself is a thing I’m really trying *not* to do. Discovering my characters, and what makes them tick, is the best part. They should be real people, who can surprise me.
It’s scary though, you know? I really don’t like offending people. Some people work at it, and get a kick out of it. I’m always horrified to find out I hurt someone. Putting myself out there in that way, that’s pretty terrifying.
Thanks again for the encouragement!
Anyone want to say the fourteen words with this guy?…
Sorry if this has already been answered but what are the people in the picture, Dementors in their summer outfits?
They’re involved with medicine aren’t they? Doctors and nurses have always had the spookiest uniforms.
Also it’s quite ingenious how the anti white dude conspiracy is simultaneously stealing sperm and siring legions of presumably white children with which to extract maintenance money, and yet somehow insure no such children are born.
And speaking of race and the artificiality of said concept it’s interesting how broad the concept of “white” has become in the last hundred years or so. Back in the 1800s/1900s Irish people weren’t considered white, “ethnologists” were hired to prove that they were almost black and therefore oppressing them was all right. One organization of the era was called the Committee for Inter-Racial Cooperation, the races they wanted corporation? English, Welsh and Irish.
If you write POC at all, then you’re already in their heads–after all, the only (good) way to write what people are doing is to know their thoughts and motivations. You can never just write a character from the outside, so if you can write someone as a side character, you can write ’em as a lead.
And anyway, if you don’t want to offend people, having a standard policy of not writing stories starring minorities is not the way to go, so you may as well jump in with both feet and risk offending people in big and daring ways instead of diffident and overconservative ways.
@katz – Wow. I never looked at it that way before. Thanks, katz!
See, it’s stuff like this that keep me coming back here, despite reading about all the bad stuff. I learn more from the comments, here! This should be offered as a college course.
@Zolnier – What? Seriously, they thought that? That’s… I just can’t even fathom that.
Actually I really shouldn’t be giving advice here; Among the Red Stars is blindingly white and I can’t figure out what to do about it.
What makes someone “white” is fairly arbitrary. Romani and Irish Travellers usually look pretty pale and that doesn’t stop the EDL and such from treating them less than human.
katz – is Among The Red Stars your book about the Soviet fighter pilots?
Yep. And I swear to God I’m not going to be all “It’s set in Russia so everyone is white” or “It’s based on historical events that involved a bunch of white people…”
Wait I’ve figured it out, those women are auditioning for the role of Oural in some lost adaptation of Till We Have Faces. With William Hartnell as the Fox, I can dream can’t I?
Hmm, I’m venturing into territory about which I know nothing, but would there be pilots in this group who were from the Asian soviets, for want of a better term?
Russia’s a really big place, and not everyone there is slavic. Can you find out about some other races/ethnic groups that could be represented there?