Here’s a horrible comment from Reddit’s always horrible White Rights subreddit that reveals some of the ways that the central ideas and obsessions of the manosphere are oozing their way into the thinking, such as it is, of the racist right. Birds of a feather flock together, and I guess the same is true of hateful shitheads.
What’s interesting to me is how easily Mr. Saturnine83 here is able to take the traditional racist paranoia about white women not popping out enough white babies to keep the white race going and make the whole “problem” about stuck-up ladies who won’t date him decent white men. For those filling out bingo cards, note the references to”disposible” men and “involuntary celibacy.”
Oh, we have no doubt you could go on and on endlessly. Guys like you always can.
If you’re interested in exploring further connections between “Men’s Rights” and “White Rights,” check out the MRMorWhiteRights subreddit, which tracks this stuff in an entertaining way, and which is where I found the link to Saturnine83’s little screed.
@LBT – your bath story made me super-happy for some reason, maybe because I’m waaayyy too used to the pantomime-don’t-quite-speak-this game. And I at once am confused by and adore your universe ( I know this is probably a bit ignorant, since I’m not old-guard and you’ve doubtless been over this before, but is there a place I can read more? I mean, only if you care to share – I don’t want to be nosing in or demanding your work for free or anything!) I’m really impressed with your writing and worldbuilding too, but the giggly happiness is probably the most notable thing to me – lots of people can write, but you made me *feel* things 😀 So, in any case, thank you for sharing that one!
@Marie oh, also late, because my brain seems to be working non linearly today, but weren’t you saying something about wanting stories with better LGBT representation before? I had found an anthology of re-written fairy tales in my school library as a middle schooler that I’m pretty sure was not supposed to be there (it wasn’t porny or anything, just I was in kind of in a conservative district) that had some cute lesbian love stories in them that kind of resonated with my tiny self. When I tried to turn it back in it didn’t have a number and the librarian let me have it and now I need to find the damn thing/remember the title! I’ll let you know if I do, if you want…
*roots around boxes of books*
@chimisaur
I don’t think I mentioned that, I think it was fade. It’s something I’d like in general, but I’m more picky. You don’t need to bother looking for it for me. :3
I am notoriously picky, though. I hit LBT’s story hard with feels cuz I already read some of their* writing, and know I like it.
*LBT, so sorry, I got lost at pronouns because my brain died, but I don’t know if which of you and your system members wrote it. Eeek. Sorry again. I think I messed up.
Oh, I found it! Kissing the Witch by Emma Donoghue have you already read that one? It was my favorite as a small (11-16ish) person and my copy’s pretty beat up; I haven’t read it in *years* though, so I’ma go do that again!
@michelle
that rumplestilskin story sounds nice. :3
also your dystopia succeeded in sounding very creepy/depressing i was grimacing the entire time reading about it. which is a compliment for a dystopia, btw 🙂
i’m way too unclarified. XD the original fairy tale sounds creepy like.
I got ninja’d by you, Marie, and then didn’t come back to see it until after reading a bit. I wasn’t trying to sound pushy after you said you didn’t want it, honest! Well, I am pleased I found my old book, anyway 😛
@chimisaur
It works 😛 You didn’t seem pushy, I just didn’t want to trouble you if you didn’t want to find it, but you are happy you found your old book so all is good :3
@hellkell
Exactly!
The line is from the song, “Agony” from “Into the Woods,” in which the princes are showing off what jackasses they are. One of them sings the line “dwarves are very upsetting,” and it shows how much of a jerk he is. The “brave” prince is afraid of dwarves, for no other reason than that he doesn’t like how they look. He’s a massive fool, and a lousy husband, and hopefully will never be called on to run the kingdom.
My character sees Rumplestiltskin initially as an “upsetting” dwarf, but as she gets to know him, she realizes he is not, and the stereotype is wrong. The king, on the other hand, is terrifying.
@Fade – the original Rumplestiltskin fairy tale always upset me.
Now, I grew up with a book of actual Grimm’s fairy tales, and I liked them, for the most part. But some, like Rumplestiltskin have always struck me as wrong on so many levels.
First of all, the girl has incredibly bad manners. She spends three nights with this guy who is saving her life, and never even gets to know his name? RUDE! And any king who reneges on his promise is never to be trusted. Plus, the whole “killing the goose that laid the golden egg” unpracticality of it all. Instead of threatening her, why not just give her a steady job of spinning? Of course, eventually, she’d run out of stuff to give the guy doing all the real work, but then, if people were honest in the first place, the king would have just hired Rumple.
And, of course, her being stuck in that situation wasn’t blamed on her father being a drunken bragging lying fool. No, it was her fault for being a lazy woman, in the first place.
Finally, the unnamed dwarf WAS written as a villain, although he never did anything actually villainous until the end. He was straight-up trading. And why didn’t she just offer him a promise of the royal jewels, once she was queen? The girl in the story never even TRIED to haggle him down from “first born child.” I mean, come ON!
Stories like that are one of the reasons I didn’t dream of being a princess. Princesses have to deal with all the politics and political intrigue, and people who have it out for them. It’s not just flowers and sparkly dresses.
Oh, incidentally, in my version of Snow White, she runs away with the huntsman, and then they team up with the dwarves to break into the castle and take down the evil queen. She doesn’t marry the prince, but thinks he’s a twit for wanting to marry some pretty dead girl he doesn’t even know.
In the original tale, it wasn’t “true love’s first kiss” that broke the spell. It was the lifting her up for the kiss dislodged the apple piece in her throat, and anyone could have done that. The evil queen was remarkably incompetent. She “killed” her at first by selling her a corset and lacing it too tight. The dwarves cut her stays, and she could breathe. Then there was the poisoned hair comb. They took it out, and she bounced right back.
Meanwhile, I’m thinking, “why doesn’t she just cut her throat, or something?”
How to kill a hydra, where if you cut off one head, two more grow in it’s place? My response was always to just stab the sucker.
There’s at least one version of the myth where Hercules does just that.
Although personally I like Order of the Stick’s solution.
@katz
i’ve never felt so sorry for a hydra before…
@katz – Oh, that is BRILLIANT! ROFL!
I love OOTS.
re Khan: Ricardo Montalban was disabled. He’d had an accident which impaired his lower body. If you pay attention you will see that none of his roles in his later life (Fantasy Island, Wrath of Khan) had him doing much in the way of movement.
I have an ex-girlfriend whose father was a line producer for ABC. He says Montalban was a wonderful person and disability or not, played a killer game of tennis.
Nonetheless he didn’t have a great deal of mobility, and some of what he did have didn’t look graceful on the screen but he still got parts in “action” movies.
@pecunium – Wow! I didn’t know that.
So, you’re saying that Hollywood can cast a disabled actor, provided the actor became disabled after already establishing a career playing lead roles?
Then, why is it so hard for Hollywood to cast already-disabled actors?
I mean, it’s great for Ricardo Montelban, but it really sucks for the rest.
Still, that story just adds to RM’s massive coolness, doesn’t it?
LOL I snickered when he said that, too!
I’m saying Hollywood can cast such actors, even for roles it seems they might not be suited for. Hollywood chooses not to, but Montalban proves they are full of shit.
That’s because knowing a magic being’s name gives you power over them – Rumpelstiltskin wouldn’t have told her his name even if she’d asked. That’s the point of his “I’ll give you your child back if you find out my name” deal at the end; I’d bet that in the pre-Grimm version, saying it didn’t just make him throw a tantrum, it probably killed him, or sent him back to the fairy world.
@pecunium – Yeah. They are.
@kittehserf – Then the story should have said his “true name.” The stories always had him nameless until the end. Not even a “you may call me Fred,” moment. It was just so wrong.
I mean, even though she was “the miller’s daughter,” and then there was “the king,” that’s how the story is told to people who don’t need to address the characters. If you were cooped up in the same room with someone for three days, wouldn’t you chat a little, and use some form of name, even if you knew it was a false one? I may give my nickname, or you may give your internet handle, but we’d share some names.
Well, I’m off to bed. Goodnight, all!
Niters!
Y’know the story would be even better as Rumpelstiltskin aka Fred. Or Friederich. 😉
Michelle, your Rumplestiltskin story reminds me a little bit of this short comic story:
http://sammymontoya.tumblr.com/post/68729470545/enjoy-this-8-page-comic-i-drew-in-1-day-and-inked
Which also involves adorable fairytale dwarf romance and I highly recommend.
@Catalpa – and that story would blow the MRA’s minds. I love it! Thanks!
Speaking of which, have you seen these 2?
http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/comic/set-facebook-to-its-complicated
http://thepunchlineismachismo.com/archives/comic/loose-ends
In the first one, Captain Badass has been hit with a virus to make him look, I believe the word is bushi? Or something like that?
In the second one, he’s finally been cured.
Anyway, I thought it was quite apropos.
@kittehserf – I like that title.
Michelle, you’re focusing on the fairy tale as fiction and believing the fairy tale as cultural mythos. Lots of things happen in fairy tales that don’t make narrative sense because fairy tales are not strictly make to be read as fiction.
Sorry, autocorrect got me. “Believing” was supposed to be “neglecting.”