Misogynists hate, hate, hate it when women get tattoos. They just can’t all agree on why. The standard misogynist line on tattoos for women is that they are all, essentially, “tramp stamps” – a way of broadcasting that the woman displaying them is a slut, a skank, a whore. You know the drill.
But the “alternative right” racist/sexist/homophobe who goes by the handle agnostic has a rather different take. In a post on his blog Face to Face, he argues that women with tattoos are actually trying to broadcast their Puritan prudery.
Tattoos, you see, are just plain ugly, and help to accessorize a dreary look designed to repel men.
Notice how those girls dress in drab, dark monochrome colors, wear no girly jewelry, and sport flat hair rather than Big Hair. Their sassy, sarcastic, even nasty attitude echos their off-putting look.
Fundamentally, they are part of the larger trend toward drab dressing, and its signal of reluctance to get loose. Their personalities are more anti-social, so they express the neo-Pilgrim style in a more antagonistic fashion than the less abrasive girls in their generation, but they’re both variations on the same theme.
The tattoo-bearers are likely to be man-haters as well.
They are also part of the larger trend among women toward fear of or hatred toward men. …
In such a climate, women will alter their appearance and demeanor in order to deflate rather than excite the male libido. They act like prey trying to give warning signals to potential predators. The tattoo chicks are only the extreme version of this widespread trend. Girls sure don’t look or act as cute and flirty as they used to in the boy-crazy Eighties, when they thought of guys not as predators but as conspecifics who they wanted to court with engaging mating displays.
“Conspecifics” simply means “members of the same species.” Agnostic loves to drop that sciency lingo in order to make his prejudices seem smart.
Anyway, he continues by arguing that tattoos are especially offensive to pickup artistes and other “assertive” dudes.
Off-putting style also serves to filter out the more assertive and independent males, who would rather spend time on a girl who looks cute, rather than settle for one who’s all marked up or not willing to show anything at all. … By inking themselves up, girls ensure that only the guys who are willing to get walked over and slapped in the face will approach them. Why go through the long hassle of having your new boyfriend fixed when you can advertise that only the neutered need apply in the first place?
Ah, but this last bit is perhaps more revealing than agnostic means it to be. Tattoos are an affront to misogynists because they’re seen as too assertive, too masculine – a challenge to traditional femininity, and to men who prefer traditionally feminine women.
Tattoos on women make misogynistic men angry because on some fundamental level these men don’t think women have the right to decorate their bodies in a way that displeases men –or at least their kind of men. It’s the same kind of creepy, possessive anger that many misogynistic men show towards women who cut their hair short. It’s as if these men on some level believe women’s bodies belong to them, and not to the women themselves.
And that’s pretty unattractive.
Bon o bullshit,
No one gives a fuck about your pants feels.
Random, but I thought I’d drop this self defense video here a. because it might be useful to people and b. because it might encourage some people to sign up for self defense classes, which we were talking about a while back.
Like any country, there’s some nuance to the US that people who haven’t lived here might not understand. The political system is really screwed up. The influence of lobbyists combined with gerrymandering keeps politicians in office that are more right wing than the average person.
When you poll people on individual issues, you find that people take progressive positions. There’s a huge disconnect between what people think and what people vote into office. It’s a combination of political corruption and apathy and ignorance of the issues.
There is all manner of bigotry here obviously. I’m not trying to deny that at all. But at the same time we aren’t as stupid and backwards as a lot of people perceive us either. There are many people here are very dissatisfied with the system but feel helpless to do anything about, so the status quo remains.
I hope I’m describing this in a way that makes sense. I’m not trying to absolve us of our problems. Just trying to explain that the politics here are sort of strange and also that there are vast differences between communities. My city (Minneapolis, Minnesota) in many ways might as well as be a different country than say, Tucson, Arizona or Jackson, Mississippi. It doesn’t really work to think of us a monolith.
Now I’m rambling and will shush 🙂
Wait. What? As a sex worker, I’ve only once been told my tattoos are off putting. Men never don’t find me attractive because of them & mainly find me more attractive with them. Most other sex workers I know have at least one tattoo. Where I live, parlours (brothels) are full of tattooed ladies and they are more popular than non-tattooed ladies a lot of the time. This is strange and yet another case of: I’m literally not doing anything with my body to please men. I’m doing it for myself.
I feel like the marriages that I observe among my peers here are on average far more egalitarian than the ones I observe among my peers in Scotland, which is where my family mostly are. Which points to yet another problem with Emma’s theory – the US isn’t a monoculture either, and the way masculinity is constructed in San Francisco isn’t the same as the way it’s constructed in, say, Houston.
(It’s not even really the same as the way masculinity is constructed in, say, LA, ime.)
haha, I also realise how strange any MRA lurkers may feel about a sex worker saying they are literally not doing anything with their body to please men. I know it seems like a fallacy, but trust me, I have agency and the ability (and I will) say no to seeing you.
Re: Emma and the idea of male culture. We just had a huge debate in the sex industry regarding men of a certain country and their attitude towards women. If I read r/creepypms I know when its a man from that country. But in saying that, the absolute WORST men we have dealt with are Australian men. The ones who believe we need to see their penises (ew) to make their booking cheaper? Australians. I haven’t worked outside of Australia – but I’m sure, based on reading and seeing what other workers within the sex industry have experienced, that its a global phenomena of men being raised to believe woman aren’t equal – and not one society over another. Generalisations don’t work because it hurts people. Trust me. As a sex worker I am generalised about daily in the media and by society, and I never fit any of those moulds.
wait wut
They think their boners are so pretty/special they get a discount? Or their boners are so pathetic they get a discount?
Can’t you read the OP? The very title says one misogynist – and he’s hardly spewing his shit for nobody to read; nor is he the first to make idiotic claims like this.
Take your boner notes elswhere, nitwit.
@kittehserf
They think their boners are so awesome they can get a discount. Cos of all the pleasure, you know. I literally just look at my work phone with the message “now you’ve seen the picture, I know you want me”. I didn’t get said picture and I’m not writing back (pro-tip: no sex worker cares about seeing your penis outside of a booking).
The pathetic ones usually head down “it’s my first time with a sex worker, my wife just died” route.
The “if you’re awesome enough at sex, sex workers won’t make you pay” cliche really needs to die. Nobody expects this for any other service occupation.
Gakk, my eyes just rolled so hard they’re now under the desk with the dust bunnies.
If I claim that I’m really good at drinking coffee will my barista give me a free cup?
If I show my cool knitting patterns, will my yarn shops give me free yarn?
If anything I’d say that if someone has an unusually big cock their sex worker should be allowed to charge them extra.
I’m good at shoving cheese into my maw, so pizza should be constantly delivered free, no?
Yeh, it does need to die. They number of times I’ve been told “you had fun, you should pay me” is incredible. Sometimes I do have fun, sometimes I’m a super good actress. But in no other job does your enjoyment for it negate payment.
I’ve only ever had a client with a “that might be too big” dick. And he was actually incredibley apologetic for his size and did “warn” me before (skeptic me dismissed his warnings as big noting himself).
Small penises are a bigger concern tbh. Keeping condoms on them is a nightmare. Cock rings are my saviour.
I actually really enjoy writing about stuff that I like. That doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t get paid for it when it’s going to be published.
The worst thing is, these “gimme a discount” dudes are infringing on the prerogatives of our Furrinati overlords. They’re the ones who’re allowed to say “I’m so cute/I have such a sad face/I’m making such pitiful noises you should give me food/cuddles/walkies” and never have to pay for it at all.
Actually, check that: Freelancers get that all the time, too. Everyone thinks that the artist/copywriter/designer will do their project for free because art is fun, right?
Yep! And, just like in hookergal’s example, the service providers usually tell them to GTFO.
Although right now I’ve got the opposite problem with a designer: She acts like she’s doing art on her own for fun when in fact we’re paying her. All our conversations are like this:
“Please center the design.”
“Actually my artistic vision has the design off-center.”
“I’m paying you to center the design.”
Geez. I had plenty of reasons to fall for my SO, but the tattoo was definitely not a turn-off. The fact that she took it because she wanted it herself, not because she was thinking about guys when she took it just made her more awesome in my eyes. What is with misogynists and their obsession with controlling women? Wait… don’t answer that.
About the whole “European men are more enlightened” thing… Yeah, no. I’ve lived in several European countries, and that’s simply not true, at least in my experience. In some places, misogyny may be better hidden than in other places, but it’s still there. So yeah. Anecdata vs. anecdata, final score: tie.
@katz
Severely off-topic, but that’s how I’ve always imagined things to go in an Objectivist utopia, or that’s how I’ve read Fountainhead, anyway. The architect ‘hero’ is just a big crybaby who doesn’t want to compromise his artistic vision, and expects people to pay him for doing whatever the hell he wants. Of course, this being Ayn Rand land, everything goes his way. In real life, he’d find himself without work very soon.
It’s funny how for all the talk about hard work and integrity, Objectivist fantasies almost always involve some rich benefactor who likes the protagonist’s attitude. Just read Steve Ditko’s origin story for the Creeper and weep. The fact that the heroes’ well-being is based on random rich people supporting them because they’re just so awesome almost makes me think the majority of Ayn Rand fans are privileged or something.
But yeah, seconding (thirding? fourthing? I’ve lost count) artists being expected to do their job for free. Just because I write and do visual art for fun in my spare time doesn’t mean I shouldn’t expect some monetary compensation for an assignment.
Brain bleach: A friend of mine recently told me that as a kid, her first favorite song was :
i am from a different generation. My favorite song as a kid was :
No wonder we ended up friends. 😉
@ hookergal
I must try saying “I have excellent table manners, so my meal should be free and the staff should totally tip me” next time I eat in a restaurant. I’m sure it would be received positively. /s
@ Anarchonist
Yes, to your anecdata I’ll add mine – 9 years living in Italy, Spain, France and Romania, many years working with groups from other European countries, mainly Germany, Switzerland, Finland and Russia, plus being British, if that counts (I’m never sure when people talk about “Europe” whether that includes us or not). Misogyny and macho culture crop up all over the place, although in some cultures at some times people seem more willing and able to call them out than in others.
Plus cultures change, sometimes for the better. In my own lifetime (admittedly I’m absolutely ancient at 54: some of those mammoths were personal friends) I’ve seen Spain go from being ruled by an incredibly repressive Fascist government which did fun stuff like police whether women’s bathing costumes were too inflammatory, imprison women who tried to leave violent husbands, and condemn gay men to penal servitude, to one where equal marriage is not only legal (I think it was the first European country to make it so) but widely popular.
As to the OP, are we sure agnostic doesn’t run a tattoo parlour somewhere?
Because he seems to be making a great case for getting some ink, – apart from the pure pleasure of decorating one’s own body with a design one finds pleasing, which is ruled out because women can’t have motivations that exclude his boner status, apparently.
As to big hair/flat hair/long hair/short hair, I’m currently no hair, thanks to the chemotherapy, and would quite like a scalp tattoo.
Ohhh the misandry involved in treating cancer.
“Condemn gay men to penal service…”
I know this represents one of the most atrocious human rights abuses that fascist Spain committed, but still, I giggled.
Hello yes hi actual European here, born and have lived in the UK all my life, spend about a month in France every year (so I’ve probably spent at least a whole year in France over the course of my life) and have visited Greece (I have Greek family and stayed with them) and Italy.
There is basically no such thing as a “European”, all countries from the continent are vastly different in culture and have different histories. Many Americans seems to be under the impression that European countries are no more different than US states are, no. It’s only in the last 60 years that we’ve stopped being constantly at war with each other. Never talk about “Europeans” as a monolith. Otherwise I will hit you with a very large History book, hard back.
Sexism is rampant on this continent. Here in the UK one of the big things people talk about is “Lad Culture”, which is kind of a kind of boor-ish masculinity culture centred around mainly young-ish men, alcohol, sports, sexist jokes, “banter” and sexual objectification of women. It’s a different form of hyper-masculinity certainly but boy does it exist.
As for “equal” partnerships, recently a friend of mine spent several minutes complaining how despite the fact that she does all the cooking, her boyfriend basically refuses to clean up afterwards and complains loudly about her “nagging” him if she asks him to do the washing up. Large numbers of adult men I have met will boast with a smug grin about how they are completely useless at household tasks and how they have purposefully messed up when their wives ask them to help out so they are not expected to ever again. I have heard it in person and once read an article saying much the same thing. So many young men have never been expected to lift a finger to help out at home and their mothers and sisters do everything and they bring that attitude to university. They expect their girlfriends and even sometimes their female housemates to do chores for them. A friend of mine once had her male housemates ask her to do all his ironing for him because he “didn’t know how to”. He didn’t offer to pay her or ask her to teach him how, he expected her to do it for him, for free.
Obviously there are plenty of men who pull their weight, for example my father does all the shopping and cooking at home. But they are not the majority and the idea that men are useless at household chores and women should do all of them is considered by many to be normal and harmless and that women who are unhappy with this are “nagging” and unreasonable.
In Italy I have found that street harassment is a big issue, while on a school trip to Rome as a 17, we found that our group of 17 year old women were frequently being followed around by small groups of men and as a 14 year old with my family I was frequently leered at while walking with my family (father and brother were there, so I had a designated male owner but it didn’t stop it).
In France my mother has basically had to give up expecting people to refer to by the title of Dr and to use her actual surname. She is known as “Mrs Father’s Name” despite the fact that she has never used his name and never used the title Mrs. It is rural France yes, but there is simply no concept of women keeping their own name after marriage. That doesn’t suggest much of a respect for “equal marriages”.
So yeah this idea that “Europe” is a paradise of equality and the US is actually the terrible one is bollocks.
If anyone wants more examples of misogyny in Europe (and especially the UK) in the media please let me know.