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a voice for men a woman is always to blame advocacy of violence antifeminism boner rage divorce domestic violence empathy deficit entitled babies evil moms evil sexy ladies evil wives excusing abuse imaginary oppression men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA oppressed men patriarchy paul elam playing the victim taking pleasure in women's pain

She deserved the ass-kicking of a lifetime: Paul Elam of A Voice for Men justifies violence against women in a disturbing short story

 

Men being oppressed by domestic violence treatment
Men being oppressed by domestic violence treatment

A Voice for Men founder Paul Elam is so full of it on virtually every subject he opines about – from domestic violence to women’s spending habits – that much of what he writes might be best classified as fiction. He would no doubt disagree, but then again he’s not big on self-awareness.

But in addition to writing much inadvertent or unadmitted fiction, Elam has also tried his hand at fiction of the more traditional sort. I ran across one of his short stories the other day, and I’d like to share it with you, because it is quite possibly the most revealing piece I’ve writing I’ve ever seen from him.

As fiction, it is, of course, terrible, written in a clunky, melodramatic style one can only describe, with a shudder, as highly Paul Elam-esque. Elam doesn’t exactly have the skills or the subtlety to create an even vaguely believable fictional world. The story is essentially a polemic in story form – an extended argument justifying domestic violence against women.

No, really.

The story is called “Anger Management,” and it ran in something called “The Oddville Press,” an online journal. A copy of the issue with Elam’s story in it is available through Google books.

As Elam explains in his intro, the story is based on the nearly twenty years he claims to have been a drug and alcohol counselor. He notes that domestic violence was a recurring issue with those he counseled, but then goes on to say that “sometimes the stories were not as predictable or stereotypical as what people hear about.”

The story he tells, which takes place in some sort of court-ordered Domestic Violence treatment group, purports to be one of these less-stereotypical tales.

In the story, a domestic abuser named Howard Franks reluctantly opens up to the group about the domestic violence incident that landed him in jail, and which is now forcing him to attend the group.

His is a story that could have been ripped from the headlines – of A Voice for Men.

For Howard, you see, had been living a blameless and seemingly perfect life until six weeks earlier. He was happily married, with two wonderful daughters, and a thriving business. Then his father died, and his wife convinced him it would be best for him to fly alone to Baltimore to attend the funeral.

And that’s when the misandry hit the fan. As Howard tells his rapt audience in the DV group,

flowers

Oh no she didn’t! Oh, yes she did.

Arriving home, he finds the house empty. His wife had taken his money, stashed the kids with her mother, and run off with his business partner, who also claimed their joint business as his own, because apparently if you run off with your business partner’s wife you’re just allowed to do that.

He heads to his business partner’s house, where, adding insult to injury, his wife comes to the door “wearing a silk robe I gave her last Christmas.”

All he can ask is why. And so she tells him what every woman who suddenly and unexpectedly decides to end a 16-year marriage tells her poor, innocent, soon-to-be ex-hubby: because he just wasn’t cutting it in the sack.

loser

Oh, but Howard’s sad tale of sexual humiliation isn’t done quite yet. And ex-wife isn’t done talking:

cock

Because that’s totally something a real woman would say to her husband of 16 years after having unexpectedly left him while he was attending his father’s funeral.

Elam has also answered a long-standing question of mine, which is: what is the proper verb to use when a tear [blanks] down your cheek? The proper verb is “to track.”

Well, naturally – naturally! – our hero Howard has to respond somehow to soon-to-be-ex-wife’s terrible insult. So, like a totally reasonable fellow,

nose

Ah, yes, Howard is just another sad statistic of domestic violence!

Because of course, in Elam’s story, Howard is the real victim here, so cruelly forced to go to jail for totally understandably breaking his wife’s nose. So cruelly forced to sit in a room with other dudes and talk about how he broke his wife’s nose, as if it were a bad thing.

The DV counselor, the aforementioned Ms. Pitts, asks him if his wife deserved a broken nose.

asskicking

Even the DV counselor is so humbled by the righteousness of Howard’s anger that she sits silently as he details the final indignity of his case: that he’s not allowed to see his daughters until his treatment is done – just because he broke his wife’s nose with his fist.

There’s nothing subtle about Elam’s story or its message. We are supposed to empathize entirely with Howard and his plight. We are expected to mutter “fucking A, right,” along with the anonymous man in his audience after Howard explains that his wife deserved more than a broken nose. We are supposed to look with disgust on the “white knight” who interrupts Howard’s narrative to point out that what he did was wrong.

This is, to put it bluntly, a story suggesting that in many cases violence against women is justified, and then some, by their bad behavior – and that the real victims are the men who are punished for their violence by spending a short time in jail, by having to go to DV treatment, and by prohibitions on contact with their children.

In Elam’s notorious post advocating “beat a violent bitch month,” his excuse for justifying violence against women was that the “violent bitches” he was talking about had started the violence – even though the extreme retribution he suggested was justifiable went far beyond simple self-defense.

In this story, though, there is no question of self-defense; he is suggesting that violence towards women is an appropriate form of retribution for women who “do men wrong” by leaving them for other men. It’s striking that the trigger for Howard’s violence is sexual jealousy and humiliation – specifically, the thought of his wife, even after she’s left him, fellating another man.

And yet Elam convinces himself – and tries to convince his readers – that Howard is the real victim here. I scarcely have to add that this is how actual abusers think. And that no one who thinks this way can conceivably be considered a “human rights” advocate of any kind.

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Kim
Kim
6 years ago

P.S. Most people seem to be responding to Ken like he’s talking about people with mental illness and asbergers and similar when he was clearly talking about mental disabilities such as Downs Syndrome. What he actually said is problematic enough. Arguing with him about something he didn’t actually say isn’t going to help anything.

Ken L.
Ken L.
6 years ago

Thank you Emma. you understood me.
your right you don’t always have the time to make a assessment, I was short sighted there.

TO the rest of you. I am sorry for offending or making uncomfortable or what ever distress I caused you. My attention was not to make ableist statement but to simple answer a question.
I am sorry if i gave that appearance I was not trying to in any way. I will try hard in the future not to do so.

@cassandrakitty
them I am silly

katz
6 years ago

Jeez you guys, why is everyone telling me to apologize to that cyclist I ran over? I didn’t even see there was a cyclist!

Ken L.
Ken L.
6 years ago

@katz

thanks for rubbing it in (said with a humbled and bow head)

kittehserf
6 years ago

Apology accepted, Ken.

Kim mentioned you were talking about something like Down’s rather than something like Asperger’s – is that what you meant?

Ken L.
Ken L.
6 years ago

yes. developmental disabled of course i think of the right word now.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
6 years ago

That’s why having those classes (for divorce and/or abortion) available is a good thing.

Well, except that such classes usually have an ulterior motive, which is to pressure women into making a particular choice that conforms to the right wing agenda. Does anyone doubt that those divorce classes are aimed primarily at instructing women (not men) on how to keep the marriage going at all costs, no matter how abusive or toxic the relationship is? Similarly, abortion counseling deliberately presents misleading and downright false medical information in an effort to scare women away from getting an abortion.

I’m all for making people aware of their options, but it has to be done evenhandedly, without an agenda. Which the people sponsoring those classes always seem to have.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

See, that’s the thing, though. Most women are less likely to read developmentally disabled men as being creepy and predatory than they are to read men in general that way. I’ve certainly seen people (men and women, and kids) act awkward or uncomfortable around people who’re developmentally disabled, but the idea that women as a group are reading developmentally disabled men as creepy often enough that this is a thing that women need to take into account before deciding whether or not their “something’s not right here, initiate evasive measures” instinct should kick in when a random guy is, say, bothering them on the bus is really sexist and weird. Women aren’t clueless – most of us can tell the difference between someone who’s developmentally disabled and who’s kind of not following the usual social interaction rules because of that and someone who is a predator. It’s really insulting to suggest that we generally go around mistaking perfectly nice men who happen to be developmentally disabled for predatory creeps, which is why people reacted so negatively to the initial comment. And then there’s also the fact that the actual creeps try to use men who’re non-neurotypical as a rhetorical shield for their own quite consciously boundary-crossing behavior all the time, so you repeated a classic misogynist talking point (even though that wasn’t your intention) that gets used to try to guilt trip women out of protecting ourselves.

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
6 years ago

@cloudiah: I know, right? I love it that they actually mock fight. All the build-up, all the preparation, all for a little touch with the paw on the side of the head. And then… pounce!

@Kim: Fair enough. I was commenting in a rush and didn’t catch the proper context. I withdraw the comment about ableism, but not the rest.

@Ken L. I believe you are sincere, but you will still need to understand why the things you said were problematic, not just that they were offending. If you don’t, you will easily go back to repeating them again at some point. The thing you said make it seem like a) disabled people go around harassing women, and b) women should be okay with this behavior. Whether you meant it or not is irrelevant, that’s how it comes off. Intent isn’t magic, and other people aren’t mind readers. So maybe watch the phrasing in the future?

Like Marie, I’m not a fan of clean slates either, because context matters. By pretending no bad stuff was said or done, we’re silently condoning the behavior and allowing it to continue. Besides, how will I ever learn if the shitty things I say are instantly forgiven and forgotten?

All that aside, apologizing is a good place to start, and I applaud you for having the humility to do that instead of doubling down.

ToolBox
ToolBox
6 years ago

What’s even more telling is that he didn’t even try to present it as self-defense – with the evil women hitting him to “provoke” him to rage, and then lying to the police. I guess there’s no need: it’s perfectly OK to assault people over hurt feelings in Elam-speak.

The man’s a fruit loop. And one whose relationship history I’m not sure I want to know

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Hi, all!

Just moved into my very own bunk room , of my very own half a station. As a fellow EMT, I’ve voting that we keep Ken.

Ken, I get where you were going. We’ve been trained to sort of assume altered mental status for weird behavior, unless other indications are obvious. We’ve also had ‘Don’t be all Judgy-pants about potential patients, because their day totally stinks and we’re the help’.

My first instinct would be to see if they were incapacitated, in any way. But, I’m trained and haven’t had the misfortune of running into many jerks.

Your caution was poorly worded and taken in a bad light because (I’m guessing) most of our fellow posters felt like you were doing the same ‘excusing predators by presumption of Aspergers’ thing that so many trolls have tried. That excuse is an insult to people with Aspergers. Seriously.

The calls of ableism stem from that. Commenters here take shielding creeps by throwing non-neurotypical people under the bus very, very seriously.

Women (and men, too) don’t have any obligation to let people who are capable of learning/knowing better mess with their boundaries. They have every right to feel safe. Even if the person had an altered mental status, if the person touched doesn’t feel safe, they have no ethical obligation to stay.

If they suspect a problem, calling for trained people to swoop in and save the day is appropriate, AFTER they assure their own safety.

You meant developmental disorders. I’ll add a half droopy face and lack of coordination (stroke).

If it was obviously an emergency, I don’t think anyone here would yell ‘creep’, though.

They’re fairly good folks, and I’m betting you are decent, too. Just try to be more cautious with your word choice when talking about head-stuff.

kittehserf
6 years ago

::points up::

What cassandrakitty and contrapangloss said.

Also, yay for having a place of your own, contrapangloss!

tamofironhooks
6 years ago

I’ve just managed to escape 4 years of emotional and verbal abuse. He never hit me, but I can see the same justifications here that he used.

The worst thing about it was that, until I started seeing a therapist recently, I thought I deserved it.

Normally WHTM just makes me laugh at the absurdity of it all, but this one really touched a nerve. Paul Elam and his ilk are all kinds of wrong.

chronic lurker
chronic lurker
6 years ago

@contrapangloss
Hi! congrats on getting your own bunk room. 🙂

kittehserf
6 years ago

tamofironhooks – hi, are you new here? 🙂

scott1139
scott1139
6 years ago

also your reading what you want to see, you saw people call me ableist and right away, and thought “well he must be”

I reread your “retake the buds” post, and, based on the words I saw, it still seemed pretty ableist. With the additional information that you’re an EMT and were referring to something like Down’s Syndrome, it doesn’t seem ableist anymore. However, that additional information was not supplied till much later.

BigMomma
BigMomma
6 years ago

@Cassandra, all the applause

emma
emma
6 years ago

@contrapangloss

“You meant developmental disorders. I’ll add a half droopy face and lack of coordination (stroke).”

This part was also apparent, to me, in Ken’s advice. The person pulling off our earbuds may be having a seizure, heart attack, stroke, etc., or trying to alert us to some imminent danger.

Cut the man some slack. He’s not the enemy.

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
6 years ago

@emma:

The person pulling off our earbuds may be having a seizure, heart attack, stroke, etc., or trying to alert us to some imminent danger.

Here’s my problem with that speculation: why bring it up in a discussion about it prominently being women who are targeted with this kind of behaviour?

Maybe it’s just me, but presenting a relatively unlikely scenario (someone needing urgent medical attention in a public place comes pulling at a woman’s earbuds) in a discussion about a very likely scenario (entitled man seeking attention from a woman comes pulling at her earbuds) just reeks of making women feel guilty for not giving the benefit of the doubt to every man who ignores their boundaries.

“He could be having a seizure! Why are you being so cruel? If he dies it’ll totally be your fault!”

Society loves to guilt-trip women for not always being available to men. Where is the calling for equal earbud-pulling for both genders, anyway? I am a man who uses earbuds in public all the time, and nobody comes pulling at them, nor is anyone trying to tell me I should be more understanding of people who come up to me and pull at my earbuds. Yet this is expected of women, perhaps because society loves to come up with reasons for why women should not be allowed to ignore a man in any situation (see cassandrakitty’s perfect phrasing of that particular problem).

Sorry if I come off as aggressive. I just don’t like guilt-tripping at all.

Luzbelitx
6 years ago

Maybe it’s just me, but presenting a relatively unlikely scenario (someone needing urgent medical attention in a public place comes pulling at a woman’s earbuds) in a discussion about a very likely scenario (entitled man seeking attention from a woman comes pulling at her earbuds) just reeks of making women feel guilty for not giving the benefit of the doubt to every man who ignores their boundaries.

I too see it this way. It feels too what-abot-teh-menz-y, if you put the remark in the context where it’s been made.

Also, let’s say a person is in a public place and is in need of urgent medical attention. Isn’t it a much faster and efficient way to get help to just scream (or talk very loudly) or, you know, address anyone else around who is NOT using earplugs?

Usually, recognizing symptoms of a stroke or a seizure only gives you a few seconds’ time to get assistance. Why would you aim at the woman wearing earplugs instead of, you know, anyone else in sight!?

(I’m not addressing this personally at Ken for his remark, just what I think about those type of comments in a general way)

Viscaria
Viscaria
6 years ago

@emma

Cut the man some slack. He’s not the enemy.

Hmm. I don’t think of many people as “the enemy.” I don’t believe that renders them exempt from criticism.

contrapangloss was pretty complimentary towards Ken in that comment. She assumed he had the best intentions and she related to his point of view. She also very clearly and patiently pointed out what it was about his statement that upset so many people. I can’t speak for you, contrapangloss, but it seemed like you were trying to be helpful to Ken by explaining that — is that right?

So it’s odd to me, emma, that you would take issue with this very nicely-worded bit of constructive criticism surrounded by compliments, because Ken isn’t the “enemy.” Who is the enemy?

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

As a fellow EMT, I’ve voting that we keep Ken.

OK, but you have to feed him and take him out for walks.

Seriously, the whole Down’s and stroke/seizure thing reads like the reddest of herrings. Seconding Anarchonist.

scott1139
scott1139
6 years ago

I, too, thought contrapangloss wonderfully diplomatic in her post.

Seriously, it was a lovely post. 😀

scott1139
scott1139
6 years ago

OK, but you have to feed him and take him out for walks.

LOL XD

kittehserf
6 years ago

Thirding Anarchonist here.

emma, why so protective of Ken? Okay, he’s apologised, fine. But now you’re trying to turn it into a completely different conversation. This whole thread is about a man who ranted about a woman wearing earplugs, about her “shitting down his throat” because she wouldn’t hear his so-important notes from his boner – and this was after he’d Facebook stalked her for six months.

How the fuck does that get you to “but he might be disabled/having a heart attack!” territory? Seems to me people have completely lost sight of the OP, and likewise completely lost perspective on what this is about – harassment that escalates too often to assault, as in the examples people have given of having earbuds torn out.

Frankly all this is skirting way too close to the dudebros’ harasser apologia for my liking. Inadvertently, I’m sure, but that’s where it’s going.

Howard Bannister
6 years ago

I used to respond to any accusations of racism with the ultimate trump card, the minorities in my family tree. See! Right there! Proof positive I can’t possibly have any racist attitudes ingrained! Just because I’m really, really white and have never been mistaken for my ancestors in any way, how could you possibly imply that society treats me differently from them? Or that I would mistreat my own ancestors?

Well, surprise, surprise. Actually I’ve been stewing in a racist culture for a good many years, even going so far as to excuse outright eliminationist policies perpetuated by the government.

Surprise! Totally racist!

So, in conclusion, be careful of your defensiveness. We’re not blank slates, free of prejudice and isms unless we choose them. Rather the opposite.

And if you’re seeking forgiveness, the best way to demonstrate that is to educate yourself a little bit on these subjects. Bone up on the 101-level stuff.

Howard Bannister
6 years ago

Back to the OP…

This is why we call them the abusers’ lobby.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I’ll accept Ken’s apology and assume good intentions.

I want to make one more point though. I don’t think this has been brought up yet. Predators sometimes pretend to be in need of assistance as a ruse. They count on the fact that women are socialized to always accommodate the needs of everyone else even if it means ignoring the voice in the back our heads that warns us someone may not have good intent.

Ken, I’m guessing you’re a cis man. Please correct me if I’m wrong. That means you have the privilege of assuming you’re safe from sexual harassment in public places. It means you have the luxury of assuming that others have good intent until you get evidence otherwise. The rest of us have been subject to enough predatory behavior that we learn quickly to make split second evaluations every time a man walks by us on the street or sits near us on public transit. I don’t know about others, but I’ve gotten bad vibes from harassers before they even open their mouths. We get very good at reading body language, facial expression and innuendo because we have to be. This is why it reads as gaslighting when men ask us if we’re sure it’s a creeper and not someone with a disability or medical problem.

I know you’re trained to watch out for medical emergencies. I’m certainly not saying we should be ignoring people in genuine distress or picking on disabled people. It’s just that we know creepers when we see them and I always reserve the right to place my safety above all else when I get the vibe. If you want to learn more about this issue, I’d recommend reading The Gift of Fear.

If I was hard on you in the other thread, it’s because I’m the sibling of an autistic person and I’m really protective of him. If I perceive someone using people who aren’t neurotypical in an attempt to shield predators, I get very upset. I’m sure you meant well, just please, please be careful in the future.

Dvärghundspossen
6 years ago

OKEEEEY… Just read the story. The thing is, although violence is never right except in self-defense, it would be at least comprehensible for someone to punch their spouse in the face really hard if zir spouse had really done everything exactly like it says in the story. For pretty much no reason at all she tears down his entire life right when he’s burying his father. Yeah, I’d probably snap to if it suddenly turned out that what I have thought for thirteen years was my loving husband was actually some kind of cartoon villain in disguise all along, and said cartoon villain just tore my life to pieces for shits and giggles. Only THIS NEVER HAPPENS. Sure, it could happen that someone’s wife leaves him for his business partner while he’s off burying his dad, because their marriage has been truly awful and she’s scared of him and see no other way of leaving him than sneaking out on him like that, but the story as it’s told? Um, no.

Marie
Marie
6 years ago

@ken L

” now if you can’t tell the difference between what i actually said and what you think I said it your problem not mine.

Nope, saw what you said just fine. You just don’t come across the way you think you do.

I would if I actually wrote something ableist, if thinking that someone who is disable should not be treated like a creep makes ableist then I am guess I am and what the heck is a welcome package?

Okay, Ken, since I have some time on my hands I’m going to dig up what you said on the other thread because damn are you being dense. nvm it didn’t take that long whoops

Because besides the quote you already posted that had problems (often mental disorders are used to excuse men’s behavior, when acting like a massive boundry invading creep isn’t a side effect, and when the creeping is unacceptable either way, and when it ignores that women have mental disorders too.

you said:

I speaking of like someone with downs syndrome, or the like. Because use words certain words that start with r.

where you pretty much said, if I’m reading right you wanted to call them the r-word.

and luckily you didn’t say more shit than that :/

@michelle

That AVFM pedo-attack video was just too triggering for me. I’m going to be off for a while, until I can get back on an even keel.

Sorry you were triggered 🙁 are cute rats good brain bleach?

Well, you seem to be implying mental illness is a common cause of boundary-violating behavior. This is not true, and it helps perpetuate the societal idea that mentally ill people are bad.

and, Ken, Scott hit this point better than me, so I”m just seconding.

@ken

@Scott fair but i disagree with you on that point, it my not be a common cause but I have seen it happen, also your reading what you want to see, you saw people call me ableist and right away, and thought “well he must be”

::headdesk:: Yeah, I guess Scott couldn’t decide for himself. /sarcasm.

I was offering to possible logical explanation for a given situation. I will not apologize for something I did that i did not even know I was doing.I

I know, same reason why when I accidentally step on someone’s toe I never apologize. Oh wait….

@cassandra

? This is obnoxious behavior, and is probably why Marie thought you were trolling. Y

Yup. the ableism + excuse for men’s bad behavior made me assume troll.

and I”m not caught up yet but posting because damn I am blabbering a lot

Marie
Marie
6 years ago

@emma

Cut the man some slack. He’s not the enemy.

Yeah, I don’t do that.

@anarchonist

Maybe it’s just me, but presenting a relatively unlikely scenario (someone needing urgent medical attention in a public place comes pulling at a woman’s earbuds) in a discussion about a very likely scenario (entitled man seeking attention from a woman comes pulling at her earbuds) just reeks of making women feel guilty for not giving the benefit of the doubt to every man who ignores their boundaries.

^BAM

@hellkell

OK, but you have to feed him and take him out for walks.

Seriously, the whole Down’s and stroke/seizure thing reads like the reddest of herrings. Seconding Anarchonist.

Thirding.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Ken,
I get that you mean well. I also get that you haven’t had your lived experiences second guessed away, over and over again. It gets old quick and it never stops. Then, you get to hear how the poor man harassing you or you daughter or your friend must just be *insert whatever absolves him of responsibility to the given apologist*. Meanwhile, when a woman with a mental illness or disability is harassed/assaulted/raped, she can’t be trusted and the man is innocent again. You may not be aware of how men’s problems absolve them and how ours make us guilty, but it’s common. It also gets old to hear bad behavior blamed on disabilities, as if only mentally ill or nonneurotypical people behave badly or that only totally able people can be trusted.
I agree that you’re a good egg. Just, please take some time to consider how telling women they are responsible for making super sure it isn’t OK for a man to demand her attention comes across the millionth time a man has told you that.

As for ablism: I absorbed misogyny as a kid because the culture I grew up in was misogynist. Internalized bigotry is a thing and we all have to be aware of it.

Stick around, listen. You’ll get it.

Shinobi (@shinobi42)
6 years ago

I had a coworker once who went on vacation for a week. He came back early and found his wife in bed with his best friend.

He cancelled all of his credit cards and checked himself into a mental institution for a 72 hour hold because he feared he was a danger to himself, his friend or his wife.

That is the correct response.

Gen
Gen
6 years ago

Paul Elam is a deeply problematic person who clearly think that domestic violence can be justified in some way (protip: it can’t). Now sit back and watch while he grumbles about being misquoted or taken out of context or, his favourite, ‘it was satire, man’.

Wat an assbutt.

historophilia
historophilia
6 years ago

I like everyone else at the moment it seems am in the process of reading the Lundy Bancroft (Ally was it you who shared the pdf? I think it was. But thank you so much, I have been racing through that book at the speed of light and have shared it round my uni feminist society, I hope it can do some good). But after reading it, that politicians suggestion that couples counselling should be mandatory for divorcing couples is super scary because Bancroft goes into a lot of detail about why couples therapy or counselling should not ever, never, ever be used when one partner is abusive because it gives the abuser more tools to abuse their partner. So if this guy had his way, lots of couples where they are divorcing due to abuse would be made to go through a process which one of the leading experts in the field says can absolutely lead to more abuse….

Phaedon
6 years ago

[quote]
Even the DV counselor is so humbled by the righteousness of Howard’s anger that she sits silently as he details the final indignity of his case: that he’s not allowed to see his daughters until his treatment is done – just because he broke his wife’s nose with his fist.[/quote]

Not in The Spearhead version of the story:

http://www.the-spearhead.com/2010/05/09/anger-management/

Her character is more “evil” in this one (even worse than the wife in fact), and an epilogue is added in which she talks to the CPS worker assigned to his kids in order for him to never see them again.

Ally S
6 years ago

@historophilia

Actually, it was LBT who provided the link – I just linked to his comment. =P

lurker
lurker
6 years ago

A more lighthearted, but nevertheless still badly written, MRA fanfiction: http://imgur.com/gallery/0eVzVMB. Thankfully it gets called out in the comments as being as much.

My favorite part is the overarching “Male Tears is SERIOUS MISANDRY” tone. Not to mention the “you would hate unknowingly giving to organizations that seriously help abused men and spend all their time doing so” straw feminist that’s been done to death.

kittehserf
6 years ago

I want to make one more point though. I don’t think this has been brought up yet. Predators sometimes pretend to be in need of assistance as a ruse. They count on the fact that women are socialized to always accommodate the needs of everyone else even if it means ignoring the voice in the back our heads that warns us someone may not have good intent.

Shit yes. Ted Bundy did exactly that.

emma
emma
6 years ago

@kittehserf

“emma, why so protective of Ken? Okay, he’s apologised, fine. But now you’re trying to turn it into a completely different conversation. This whole thread is about a man who ranted about a woman wearing earplugs, about her “shitting down his throat” because she wouldn’t hear his so-important notes from his boner – and this was after he’d Facebook stalked her for six months.”

Sure. Ken’s advice was well-intentioned, however, and in direct response to a question about someone removing one’s earbuds, not so much to the situation of the original post. You corrected what you saw as his ableist attitude, and he apologized. I think you yourself invoked the Hanlon’s Razor on one of the recent threads. I don’t see malice involved here, is all.

marinaliteyears
marinaliteyears
6 years ago

So.. he made a story about a woman who was pretty bad, but in a totally stupid and kind of super fake seeming way, to justify a man breaking her nose? why do I get the feeling that was the point of the story from the beginning? I mean.. There is certainly a place for violence in fiction, Even against woman, but It has to be like.. you know, a result of the story, not the point of it, otherwise it come off like a cheap fantasy situation, engineered to get a result, like here.
Cause, if Im understanding right, the story is basically “She was a bitch to me, so I punched her! Because, obviously, I have no other recourse, for some reason!” which just feels all sorts of forced. I mean, He could have fought for custody of the children, or pulled his weight on his half of the business. Hell, It could have made for a compelling story if he had! And if he *DID* end up violent, It shouldn’t come off as a sympathetic thing for him to do, specifically. As it stands, we have a room full of abusers who agree with him and thats how we are supposed to empathize with his plight..?

I dunno. I know Im looking at this from a more critical light then a mocking stand point, but this story sounds really really bad, even from that angle.

emma
emma
6 years ago

@Anarchonist

“Sorry if I come off as aggressive. I just don’t like guilt-tripping at all.”

No problem. It is not guilt-tripping, as I see it. Ken’s response just sounded common sense to me. I am one of those people whose initial impulse indeed would be to check on the person approaching me in a startling way to make sure they are OK first, but I understand it may not be the optimal or even appropriate response, depending on the situation.

katz
6 years ago

A more lighthearted, but nevertheless still badly written, MRA fanfiction: http://imgur.com/gallery/0eVzVMB. Thankfully it gets called out in the comments as being as much.

Hilariously pathetic. Couldn’t even be assed to spend 5 minutes setting up a Cafepress store to actually sell mugs.

kittehserf
6 years ago

emma, I’m not attributing malice to Ken; Hanlon’s Razor doesn’t come into this. I’m asking why you got so defensive of him when he made ableist comments. Nobody was saying “He’s the enemy!” People were pointing out that he made ableist comments, and that doubling down on them wasn’t the way to go. He’s apologised since then, but as Lea pointed out, women hear this shit all the time about how we’re supposed to think of the poor-maybe-disabled-man, and how if a woman’s disabled her testimony means nothing – the man is always absolved, the woman never believed, and it’s really, really old. Raising the stakes to “he’s having a heart attack/stroke!” is just more of the same, and I’m less than impressed with it, or defences of it.

marinaliteyears
marinaliteyears
6 years ago

A more lighthearted, but nevertheless still badly written, MRA fanfiction: http://imgur.com/gallery/0eVzVMB. Thankfully it gets called out in the comments as being as much.

You’d think, somewhere along the line, more MRA would realize that straw feminists are in fact, not real. Or rather, if they are real, they are a minority and probably not really feminists.(not that feminists are obligated to care about men’s issues or anything, but I do think its a trend in.. you know, wanting equality.)

marinaliteyears
marinaliteyears
6 years ago

ah I hit Post comment to early. I meant to continue on to say something about how MRA are not well known for challenging their perceptions.

emma
emma
6 years ago

kittehserf,
“I’m not attributing malice to Ken.”

Oh, good.

I am one of those “oh, the poor person, man (yes) or woman, is s/he OK, what with that ripping off my hat (since I don’t wear earbuds)?” Believe me, I don’t minimize the threats of assault we face daily — have had my share, after all; my first reaction, however, is more in line with that described by Ken. I would be (and am) concerned for the person who behaves in such a way, but I do not expect others to share this attitude. Also note, please, that this concern does NOT apply to the dude in the original post whose behavior is clearly entitlement-driven stalking that leaves no doubt about his motives.

Hope it makes sense.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Yeah, that’s making sense, emma, thanks.

WeCookedTheMammoth
WeCookedTheMammoth
6 years ago

Another gem from the “manosphere” blog Return of Kings:

[TRIGGER WARNING for violence and rape]

“Truth is women like forceful sex, because you then represent one of the men that have just conquered her village by force, killed her father, brothers and sons and raped her. It’s how ordinary girls used to get pregnant most of time. It is the reason why women are hypergamous too. Mentally they are ready to submit to the stronger and more powerful men because the alternative is getting killed like the rest of the peasants from her village.”

I mean….what the fuck do you even say to that? What honestly scares the SHIT out of me is that males (I refuse to call them men) who think this way actually EXIST, in REAL LIFE, and genuinely do hate women so much that they want to do them as much physical and mental harm as possible. Unfortunately for them, it is still illegal to beat women, so the next best thing is to f*** them as forcefully as possible! The sexualization of violence. Porn does it all the time. So long as she “consented,” then violence against women (and I mean real, serious violence), in a sexual context, is perfectly acceptable.

grumpycatisagirl
6 years ago

So does anyone know if that horrible video is down from the A Voice for Men site yet?