“Trans esclusive radical feminists” (idk if I remember the acronym right)
but basically they’re a group of feminists who are really transmisogynistic (or, transphobic in general, but I think a lot of their shit is directed at trans women, which is why I used transmisogynistic)
sometimes they do terrible things, like harass trans women and plan to crash trans health conferences. Probably more shit. But they’re pretty fucking terrible.
(Idk, and someone can correct me if I fucked up, since I’m a cis woman and may not have gotten all of the shit TERFs do right.)
AK, it’s nice to hear from you! I am in the same boat. I wish I could comment here as much as I used to, and keep up with all the threads. But that’s life, I guess: constantly shifting priorities.
pollydactyl
10 years ago
Congrats inurashii! This is quite a coincidence, as I wanted to ask for advice on transitioning. My younger twin siblings just came out as trans women to me and my partner, but not to anyone else yet. All I told them was I love them and support their decisions, but I was wondering how transitioning works. At least we live in California which I’ve heard is better than a lot of US states for trans people. They’ve been trying to talk to a therapist about it, and they’ll be starting university soon in a quite liberal place where the school insurance does cover treatment for trans people. In fact, Mr. Dactyl is about to graduate from the same university so he looked into resources there for them. I’m also glad they have me and two other cis sisters who can help them! I just wanted to know, does anyone have any practical advice for them and is there anything I can do besides offering my love and support? Thank you!
TERF stands for “trans-exclusionary radical feminist”.* The main thing that characterizes them is their extreme hatred for trans people, particularly AMAB trans people. Their central assumption about us is that we have male privilege by virtue of being “biologically male” and accuse us of being men trying to invade women’s spaces, oppressing cis women with the word “cis” (sometimes they even think TERF is a slur – I wish I was joking), and possessing a uniquely unstable, artificial gender unlike cis women.
The most famous TERF is Janice Raymond, who succeeded in pushing for anti-trans legislation that has hindered our access to affordable transition healthcare. They are generally extremely awful people and many of them, especially trans women TERFs, know exactly how to exploit trans women’s insecurities and manipulate the fuck out of them with ableism, transmisogyny, racism, etc.
*I prefer to use TWEF (trans-woman-exclusionary feminist), personally, because I think most of their bigotry is directed at trans women and all other AMAB trans folks.
Congrats inurashii! This is quite a coincidence, as I wanted to ask for advice on transitioning. My younger twin siblings just came out as trans women to me and my partner, but not to anyone else yet. All I told them was I love them and support their decisions, but I was wondering how transitioning works. At least we live in California which I’ve heard is better than a lot of US states for trans people. They’ve been trying to talk to a therapist about it, and they’ll be starting university soon in a quite liberal place where the school insurance does cover treatment for trans people. In fact, Mr. Dactyl is about to graduate from the same university so he looked into resources there for them. I’m also glad they have me and two other cis sisters who can help them! I just wanted to know, does anyone have any practical advice for them and is there anything I can do besides offering my love and support? Thank you!
does anyone have any practical advice for them and is there anything I can do besides offering my love and support? Thank you!
I’m one of the trans women in this thread, so I’ll try to give you some suggestions. This is in no way an exhaustive list of suggestions, but every bit counts. And please bear in mind that I’m assuming that you aren’t very familiar with trans issues (which isn’t downplaying of your love and support for your siblings but rather a fair assumption to make about a lot of cis people).
1. If they are trying to feminize any part of their bodies, you should assure them that you won’t ever judge them for not “passing” as women and love them all the same. It also might be helpful to compliment them from time to time because society views trans women as inherently ugly and repulsive. (Although if they are feeling really awful about their bodies and they don’t want to be complimented, it’s best to respect that wish.)
2. Another thing is that part of being loving and supportive involves validating their feelings. If one of your siblings is hurt by someone’s transmisogynistic (transphobic against trans women) words or actions, you should be there for them and not say things like “Words don’t mean anything” or “You’re being too sensitive.” Really, empathy is key here.
3. It might be nice to offer to help them out or at least come along when they want to buy feminine clothes, makeup, etc. Of course, not all trans women are the same, but a lot of them feel more comfortable doing such things in the company of someone they trust. Even walking into a women’s clothing store can be intimidating for trans people.
4. Unless they’re okay with it, try not to romanticize the past too much. In other words, you should avoid things like “You were so cute as a little boy”. It not only is misgendering to most trans women, but it also feels invalidating to a lot of them – and it’s somewhat manipulative as well because it might make them feel that you won’t have the same feelings about them once they transition and start living as women.
I’m sorry if I’m sounding very critical of you – I’m just trying to stress these suggestions because so many cis people don’t care about them and put themselves first.
gillyrosebee
10 years ago
I love to listen to TERFs. Laughing is therapeutic, and pointing is a form of exercise, right?
Laughing at TERFs is great, but it’s also important to bear in mind that their strategies and behavior are often so abusive that it would be charitable to call them bullies. They are even worse enemies than conservative heteronormative transphobes.
gillyrosebee
10 years ago
I agree, Ally, and I wouldn’t bother to be charitable, they are bullies and abusers. I find their rhetoric and behavior ridiculous and unacceptable, and I’m happy, nay DELIGHTED to hand them their asses whenever I run into one (which is not very often, I’m happy to say). I’m sorry if I was too glib there.
Thanks for understanding. I’ve run into ostensible trans allies who actually have the nerve to say that TERFs aren’t the “real enemies” of trans women and that TERFs have no power to hurt any trans woman. (Funny how later on one of them turned out to be an abusive stalker of trans women.)
@K – your partner seems to be expecting quite a lot from you without putting forth the same level of effort. Is this a new relationship? Does your partner recognize all that you’ve been doing and the strain his irresponsible decisions have been placing on you?
@inurashii – congrats and welcome! I hope you find this community as a soft place to land to help with some of the bumps in the road.
My wife and I are fabulous atm. We’re living with her parents (not that fabulous) BUT it’s given us an opportunity to start saving money and really get back on our feet. Plus, I’ve scored an amazing job that’s well-paying, I get hours I like, and while it’s contract it’s pretty darned stable. So, we’ve decided that since my wife hasn’t gotten her career sorted, we’re going to refocus and start trying to have babies! It’s complicated bc we’re both cis women, so we’re going to go through a fertility clinic. And since she’s putting figuring out what she wants her long-term career goals to be, she’s going to start selling Arbonne from home to bring in some extra income. Long story short, yay us!
TERFs aren’t just enemies, they are traitors, and that tends to be worse for me than just being a simple, garden variety misogynist with a transphobic attitude. I can’t understand (and refuse to accept) the attitude of someone who is outraged at being judged on the basis of body and identity but wants to retain the privilege of judging others based on THEIR body and identity.
I find hypocrisy ridiculous (not as in funny, but as in worthy of ridicule). Granted, we all have our biases and we all have moments of hypocrisy, and that’s okay; we do the best we can. But it’s my opinion that we all have a responsibility to interrogate our own biases and prejudices and deal with their effects on ourselves and others.
Sadly, I myself have run into too many untrustworthy allies, so I know how painful it can be to realize that someone you trusted will not have your back. That’s part of what makes me want to go out of my way to be extra clear to my allies that I’m behind them.
So I apologize again if I came across as too glib.
Congrats, inurashii! I hope to follow a similar path, some day…
I don’t get TERFs at all. I can’t see how they can, on one hand, say that gender is totally a social construct (and accuse trans people of embodying gender essentialism), while on the other hand basically saying your biological sex is fixed and ultimately determines everything. The cognitive dissonance seems mind-boggling.
grumpycatisagirl
10 years ago
I can’t understand (and refuse to accept) the attitude of someone who is outraged at being judged on the basis of body and identity but wants to retain the privilege of judging others based on THEIR body and identity.
Yeah, so much this. I love it when someone explains my own thoughts on a matter better than I could.
pollydactyl
10 years ago
katz: Thank you very much, I’ll pass the information along to them.
Ally S: Thank you so much! You are correct, I don’t know very much about trans issues so I am trying to learn more. I found your suggestions very helpful and I will definitely keep them in mind.
I’m very grateful for your advice.
AbsintheDexterous
10 years ago
I couldn’t remember what TERF stood for, so I looked it up on Google.
I am amazed that horrible people can still surprise me. Leaving out whatever repulsive theories that they come up with, why the hell does it even matter to them? I do not understand people who are so hateful toward a group of people they don’t even know going through something that doesn’t even effect them.
I can’t see how they can, on one hand, say that gender is totally a social construct (and accuse trans people of embodying gender essentialism), while on the other hand basically saying your biological sex is fixed and ultimately determines everything.
I can’t understand (and refuse to accept) the attitude of someone who is outraged at being judged on the basis of body and identity but wants to retain the privilege of judging others based on THEIR body and identity.
It’s like they’re competing in the Oppression Olympics and going for gold. It’s sad and pathetic.
Sam-I-Was?
10 years ago
@K- I don’t have any good advice to you beyond the fact that at 19 I think you are handling the situation way better then I could now & I’m much older then 19.
Sympathetic hugs or celebratory hugs for anyone who is interested.
@Kitteh- ZOMG when I was walking into work this morning I swear to you I saw Sir walking down the street! Let me just say that the Mr. K clone gorgeous! and I definitely get what you see in him. Yes I did go into the office thinking “I can’t wait to tell Kitteh!” 😀
I don’t get TERFs at all. I can’t see how they can, on one hand, say that gender is totally a social construct (and accuse trans people of embodying gender essentialism), while on the other hand basically saying your biological sex is fixed and ultimately determines everything. The cognitive dissonance seems mind-boggling.
I’d say it’s not because of cognitive dissonance, but because they all consider sex to be a supra-discursive category – that is, they just accept it as a natural binary opposition that can’t possibly be questioned, challenged, and/or abolished. As if it never originated from a patriarchal discourse. That’s why they always yell about trans women “ignoring biological facts.”
We Hunted The Mammoth
@Aylin
“Trans esclusive radical feminists” (idk if I remember the acronym right)
but basically they’re a group of feminists who are really transmisogynistic (or, transphobic in general, but I think a lot of their shit is directed at trans women, which is why I used transmisogynistic)
sometimes they do terrible things, like harass trans women and plan to crash trans health conferences. Probably more shit. But they’re pretty fucking terrible.
(Idk, and someone can correct me if I fucked up, since I’m a cis woman and may not have gotten all of the shit TERFs do right.)
This isn’t personal but I love this article that Time just published on its Web site and wanted to share it somewhere: http://time.com/103243/if-youre-a-modern-dad-you-might-just-be-a-feminist/
MRAs sure aren’t going to like it.
Whoo comment party for inurashii 🙂 :star:
AK, it’s nice to hear from you! I am in the same boat. I wish I could comment here as much as I used to, and keep up with all the threads. But that’s life, I guess: constantly shifting priorities.
Congrats inurashii! This is quite a coincidence, as I wanted to ask for advice on transitioning. My younger twin siblings just came out as trans women to me and my partner, but not to anyone else yet. All I told them was I love them and support their decisions, but I was wondering how transitioning works. At least we live in California which I’ve heard is better than a lot of US states for trans people. They’ve been trying to talk to a therapist about it, and they’ll be starting university soon in a quite liberal place where the school insurance does cover treatment for trans people. In fact, Mr. Dactyl is about to graduate from the same university so he looked into resources there for them. I’m also glad they have me and two other cis sisters who can help them! I just wanted to know, does anyone have any practical advice for them and is there anything I can do besides offering my love and support? Thank you!
Good to see you, Viscaria. Best wishes!
@Aylin
TERF stands for “trans-exclusionary radical feminist”.* The main thing that characterizes them is their extreme hatred for trans people, particularly AMAB trans people. Their central assumption about us is that we have male privilege by virtue of being “biologically male” and accuse us of being men trying to invade women’s spaces, oppressing cis women with the word “cis” (sometimes they even think TERF is a slur – I wish I was joking), and possessing a uniquely unstable, artificial gender unlike cis women.
The most famous TERF is Janice Raymond, who succeeded in pushing for anti-trans legislation that has hindered our access to affordable transition healthcare. They are generally extremely awful people and many of them, especially trans women TERFs, know exactly how to exploit trans women’s insecurities and manipulate the fuck out of them with ableism, transmisogyny, racism, etc.
*I prefer to use TWEF (trans-woman-exclusionary feminist), personally, because I think most of their bigotry is directed at trans women and all other AMAB trans folks.
What part of Cali do you live in?
katz: Right now we live in southern CA.
Then they should visit the LA Gay & Lesbian Center if they haven’t already.
@pollydactyl
I’m one of the trans women in this thread, so I’ll try to give you some suggestions. This is in no way an exhaustive list of suggestions, but every bit counts. And please bear in mind that I’m assuming that you aren’t very familiar with trans issues (which isn’t downplaying of your love and support for your siblings but rather a fair assumption to make about a lot of cis people).
1. If they are trying to feminize any part of their bodies, you should assure them that you won’t ever judge them for not “passing” as women and love them all the same. It also might be helpful to compliment them from time to time because society views trans women as inherently ugly and repulsive. (Although if they are feeling really awful about their bodies and they don’t want to be complimented, it’s best to respect that wish.)
2. Another thing is that part of being loving and supportive involves validating their feelings. If one of your siblings is hurt by someone’s transmisogynistic (transphobic against trans women) words or actions, you should be there for them and not say things like “Words don’t mean anything” or “You’re being too sensitive.” Really, empathy is key here.
3. It might be nice to offer to help them out or at least come along when they want to buy feminine clothes, makeup, etc. Of course, not all trans women are the same, but a lot of them feel more comfortable doing such things in the company of someone they trust. Even walking into a women’s clothing store can be intimidating for trans people.
4. Unless they’re okay with it, try not to romanticize the past too much. In other words, you should avoid things like “You were so cute as a little boy”. It not only is misgendering to most trans women, but it also feels invalidating to a lot of them – and it’s somewhat manipulative as well because it might make them feel that you won’t have the same feelings about them once they transition and start living as women.
I’m sorry if I’m sounding very critical of you – I’m just trying to stress these suggestions because so many cis people don’t care about them and put themselves first.
I love to listen to TERFs. Laughing is therapeutic, and pointing is a form of exercise, right?
Laughing at TERFs is great, but it’s also important to bear in mind that their strategies and behavior are often so abusive that it would be charitable to call them bullies. They are even worse enemies than conservative heteronormative transphobes.
I agree, Ally, and I wouldn’t bother to be charitable, they are bullies and abusers. I find their rhetoric and behavior ridiculous and unacceptable, and I’m happy, nay DELIGHTED to hand them their asses whenever I run into one (which is not very often, I’m happy to say). I’m sorry if I was too glib there.
Oh, and congrats, inurashii!
@gillyrosebee
Thanks for understanding. I’ve run into ostensible trans allies who actually have the nerve to say that TERFs aren’t the “real enemies” of trans women and that TERFs have no power to hurt any trans woman. (Funny how later on one of them turned out to be an abusive stalker of trans women.)
@K – your partner seems to be expecting quite a lot from you without putting forth the same level of effort. Is this a new relationship? Does your partner recognize all that you’ve been doing and the strain his irresponsible decisions have been placing on you?
@inurashii – congrats and welcome! I hope you find this community as a soft place to land to help with some of the bumps in the road.
My wife and I are fabulous atm. We’re living with her parents (not that fabulous) BUT it’s given us an opportunity to start saving money and really get back on our feet. Plus, I’ve scored an amazing job that’s well-paying, I get hours I like, and while it’s contract it’s pretty darned stable. So, we’ve decided that since my wife hasn’t gotten her career sorted, we’re going to refocus and start trying to have babies! It’s complicated bc we’re both cis women, so we’re going to go through a fertility clinic. And since she’s putting figuring out what she wants her long-term career goals to be, she’s going to start selling Arbonne from home to bring in some extra income. Long story short, yay us!
Babbies! Yay for babbies!
TERFs aren’t just enemies, they are traitors, and that tends to be worse for me than just being a simple, garden variety misogynist with a transphobic attitude. I can’t understand (and refuse to accept) the attitude of someone who is outraged at being judged on the basis of body and identity but wants to retain the privilege of judging others based on THEIR body and identity.
I find hypocrisy ridiculous (not as in funny, but as in worthy of ridicule). Granted, we all have our biases and we all have moments of hypocrisy, and that’s okay; we do the best we can. But it’s my opinion that we all have a responsibility to interrogate our own biases and prejudices and deal with their effects on ourselves and others.
Sadly, I myself have run into too many untrustworthy allies, so I know how painful it can be to realize that someone you trusted will not have your back. That’s part of what makes me want to go out of my way to be extra clear to my allies that I’m behind them.
So I apologize again if I came across as too glib.
Yay for damselindetech and wife!
Congrats, inurashii! I hope to follow a similar path, some day…
I don’t get TERFs at all. I can’t see how they can, on one hand, say that gender is totally a social construct (and accuse trans people of embodying gender essentialism), while on the other hand basically saying your biological sex is fixed and ultimately determines everything. The cognitive dissonance seems mind-boggling.
Yeah, so much this. I love it when someone explains my own thoughts on a matter better than I could.
katz: Thank you very much, I’ll pass the information along to them.
Ally S: Thank you so much! You are correct, I don’t know very much about trans issues so I am trying to learn more. I found your suggestions very helpful and I will definitely keep them in mind.
I’m very grateful for your advice.
I couldn’t remember what TERF stood for, so I looked it up on Google.
I am amazed that horrible people can still surprise me. Leaving out whatever repulsive theories that they come up with, why the hell does it even matter to them? I do not understand people who are so hateful toward a group of people they don’t even know going through something that doesn’t even effect them.
It’s like they’re competing in the Oppression Olympics and going for gold. It’s sad and pathetic.
@K- I don’t have any good advice to you beyond the fact that at 19 I think you are handling the situation way better then I could now & I’m much older then 19.
Sympathetic hugs or celebratory hugs for anyone who is interested.
@Kitteh- ZOMG when I was walking into work this morning I swear to you I saw Sir walking down the street! Let me just say that the Mr. K clone gorgeous! and I definitely get what you see in him. Yes I did go into the office thinking “I can’t wait to tell Kitteh!” 😀
I’d say it’s not because of cognitive dissonance, but because they all consider sex to be a supra-discursive category – that is, they just accept it as a natural binary opposition that can’t possibly be questioned, challenged, and/or abolished. As if it never originated from a patriarchal discourse. That’s why they always yell about trans women “ignoring biological facts.”