So this little screenshot is making the rounds on the internet. It’s from 4chan, so who knows if the guy posting it is sincere. But I’ve seen similar, albeit less histrionic, complaints from other would-be pickup artistes in the past.
Guess what, dude. Some of those women wearing earbuds aren’t even listening to music. They just wear them to avoid creepy dudes like you.
Thanks, NonServiam!
After it all, when I moved to college, I told my brother, who was at the same college. He then taught me some self-defense. He taught me that the most important self-defense tactic was to look intimidating.
“I have a walking stick, and I know how to use it!” Yeah, he taught me the basics of stick fighting, and told me to always carry my walking stick (very hilly campus, after all), and most important, The Stance and The Face.
When threatened, get in The Stance, and put on The Face, and most guys will leave you alone, because they don’t want to fight, really. Someone who is willing to fight, and looks like they might actually know how, is scary to someone who was expecting easy prey.
So, the more of us women and other vulnerable people learn how to intimidate the jerks in the world, I think the better. And best of all, if the surprising “femme” people and then turn around and surprise the jerks, and scare them silly, maybe, just MAYBE, they’ll be a bit less likely to attack some other “femme” person.
After all, if NonServiam can look all sweet and vulnerable, and then turn out to be an actual badass, maybe Marie or Ally or cassandrakitty, or anyone else could surprise them, too. And if anyone of these little femme victims could turn out to be dangerous, after all, then maybe, just MAYBE, it would be a good idea not to provoke ANY of them.
That’s my dream, anyway. It probably won’t work for all of the jerks in the world, but it might actually work to deter a few of the smarter ones. The ones who can actually do a bit of logic.
So, you go, girly girl! Traditional femme and terrifying! I love it! We can be decoys for the ones who need it.
P.S. – Ally, freezing is a totally rational and reasonable response to verbal abuse. Go with your gut. Trust your instincts. If they are telling you not to escalate, then don’t escalate. Do, however, look for exits and other means of assuring your safety, including making eye contact with other potential allies nearby.
That “fight or flight” response really needs to be amended to “fight, flight, or freeze,” because lots of people freeze, and lots of times, that really is the best way to deal with it. Do what works for you.
In fact, the more varied responses there are, the more confusion we sow amongst the jerks of the world.
OMG you mean they turn into kitties?
I would love to know stick fighting. I have a walking stick too (very handy for being offered a seat on the train, I notice) and damn right I’d use it against someone, but I’d need to know how.
Funny variation on The Face: smiling for no apparent reason, with the subtext of “Yes, I know you’re looking askance at me, and I don’t give a shit.” I’m not smiling at people, not even making eye contact; I’m smiling because of something I’m thinking about, or a conversation with Mr K, or whatever. It seems to help keep ’em at arms’ length.
Maybe I just have a really blech smile. 😛
Doesn’t everyone have body parts that turn into kitties when detached? I thought we were all kitties in people costumes. Or was that ferrets?
Sticks of any kind are such good self defense tools! You don’t need much training – just find a place to play with them and get used to keeping your balance while smacking things with them. Big pointy umbrellas are good too. (The bit of Dublin I grew up in was the dodgy part – you pick things up.)
I knit too. Looks like the sweetest, least harmful hobby in the world but metal knitting needles are dangerous. There’s a reason you can’t take them on planes. Security AND hand-knit cuteness.
Of course, all self defense advice has to be delivered with the point that, if you can get away, just get away. I’ve only ever fought when I really felt there wasn’t any other choice (like that time I was backed into a corner at knife point – don’t worry, broke his nose and possibly his arm). Even in helping other people, I just get in the way and interrupt until the aggressor backs off or the victim can get away.
M
Well done, @Marci. And actually it was obviously the best way to handle the situation because it meant that the stalker stopped stalking your friend. While it would be nice to think the stalker learned something, when it comes down to it, that doesn’t really matter. What matters is that your friend is safe from him. And so job accomplished.
@michelle
Oh, that guy sounds terrible 🙁 Internet hugs from me, if you want any.
This is really rubbing me the wrong way. Don’t presume that I’m a “little femme victim” because one dumbass once yanked my earbuds out of my ears and I have good enough social skills to recognize that “appear dangerous” isn’t really the smartest response to that situation.
On the more general subject of teaching predators to behave better in the future, sure, that would be nice, but getting yourself/whoever you’re trying to protect out of the situation in one piece is almost always going to be the primary goal.
I don’t even know what the fuck to make of this, but way to assume that everyone can or wants to pull off “femme.”
“Little femme victim” is really insulting. On so many levels.
@cassandra
eh. It rubbed me the wrong way to but I didn’t know if I was overreacting.
On a kinda related note, I do know self defense (and have been learning since I was 11) but like I said earlier, escalating into a physical fight is kinda illegal and not everyone is willing to do it, even if they know how :/
idk, am I making any sense?
The funniest part is that I’ve been being told that I’m intimidating since I was an actual child (as in under 10). This does not in fact deter all creeps from approaching. Nothing does, because the “creeping on people” problem originates with the creep, not with the people he’s creeping on.
@ Marie
Yeah, it’s an evaluate your options and decide which is best in the current situation kind of deal. Especially if you’ve studied martial arts, initiating a physical fight could get you into a whole heap of trouble. Sometimes it may be worth it to just go ahead and do that and deal with those consequences later, otherwise not. In any case, I would really rather not live in a society where “women should try to scare the crap out of men who behave badly to teach them a lesson” is the expected default.
Creepers gonna creep, no matter how much my face says “do not approach.” I’d rather spend time educating men not to harass than have to be scary 24/7.
Oh, I totally agree that a sweeping culture shift would be 1000000000000x better than scaring men away from harassing people! There needs to be all kinds of education and discussions going on in ever arena. I’m so sorry if I implied otherwise. I think it’s too easy to go from “self-defense is useful” to ‘it’s our sole responsibility to protect ourselves”, which is kind of just victim blaming. I just mean that in the push-comes-to-shove situations, I feel ready to push back and I really believe in supporting other women too. It would be much better if we just didn’t have to push back.
@Michelle
“One thing I’ll say about my past experience – it has taught me compassion, and the need to stand up for others who are being bullied and harassed. (…)
So, that is one good thing that came of my abuse. But it didn’t come from my abusers, and I’m never going to thank THEM for it.”
Right on. I read a story recently about a woman who thanked her abusive rapist father for abusing her, as it taught her compassion ‘n all. I thought that kind of forgiveness is a bit much, especially since he did not ask for it (because he did nothing wrong, of course).
Yes, there can be healing and growth — I can personally attest to that. I was sexually abused as a young child, which taught me enough fear and self-protection to escape subsequent attempts at abuse later on. But it did not prepare me for being raped, twice, by men whom I knew and trusted as a young woman.
One can grow despite and through it, however. I’ve been married for a long time to a decent man (the importance of genuinely decent men — not to be confused with Nice Guys (TM)) cannot be overstated) and have adult children now (who don’t know my story, and, gods willing, never will — some wounds are not to be open in front of our closest relatives; like you, I never told my parents either, so as not to upset them; my husband is the only person who knows).
Virtual hugs.
Arh, this thread. All the hugs/non-contact support of choice for Ally and Michelle.
I’m not surprised you were hypervigilant as a child Ally (though “hyper” may not be accurate given your upbringing), but it is very interesting (/awful) that most trans women experience the same thing.
I have pretty much spent my whole life feeling unsafe, for reasons. I hate and resent it so much I cannot describe it, and have to tightly harness my anger when cis guys are completely clueless.
I actually am terrible at confrontation but do give off physical confidence and I’m sure that helps. I’ve only been harassed a couple of times, and I was really proud of myself when a guy followed me back to work and kept trying to touch me/picked a flower and tried to give it to me and I kept calmly saying “do not touch me. I do not want the flower. I don’t care that you want to give it to me, you need to leave me alone.” He was not happy when he brought god into it and I told him I gave negative fucks about god. 😛
What was less cool is that it took one of the big guys at work to make him leave after I left him in reception, and people thought it was funny. How fucking funny would it have been if I had been going home rather than work? Jesus.
Manospherians would characterize that post as a “victim puke” and waiting 6 months to approach a crush as “hopelessly beta”. A “true PUA” would probably find a way to disconnect the mark from her earbuds, LOL.
Speaking of this, I am having a go at learning parkour (the activity or sport of moving rapidly through an area, typically in an urban environment, negotiating obstacles by running, jumping, and climbing).
I am lucky enough to have never been in a situation where I needed to escape, and am just doing it for fun and fitness. It’s very dominated by young men, but I can see how it could be a very useful skill for women, if they are physically capable. I know I’d much rather run away than try to fight someone.
Kim: Excellent, soon you will be reenacting Banlieue 13.
That is a great clip. Wouldn’t it be awesome to be able to do that? Though preferably without the nasty men chasing you.
Awesome chase scene – though you’d have to be really familiar with the building layouts before blindly jumping down strange ventilation shafts.
That’s great that you’re learning parkour, Kim. It looks like it would be great for all-around agility, strength, balance, and coordination, and useful if you needed to back out of a tight situation quickly. What are some of the beginning skills they teach you?
The only time in my life I’ve ever punched somebody is when I spent two minutes in a boxing ring with the CEO of our company. They were the longest, most awkward two minutes of my life. It felt so deeply wrong to go against all my ingrained beliefs and hit another person, let alone my employer. All I could think about was don’t get fired, don’t get fired…
I’m very sorry I offended you. I did not mean to say that you are a “little femme victim.” I was using it as an example of appearance, and appearances can be deceiving. I should have just used random names, instead of the names of posters here. I apologize.
The point is, these jerks will *see* a feminine-appearing prey, and then be faced with a feminine-appearing surprise. The more who embody that surprise, the better. The more of us who turn out to be lions in sheep’s clothing, the less wolves will attack the sheep.
Being raised military, I tend to see this in a strategic light, and being a not-physically-active person, I have to choose my strategy wisely. I have not needed to actually HIT a person in over two decades, now. The stance and the face and the sheer surprise have been enough. However, should the need to actually hit arise, I do have the will and the know-how. And I also value the strategy of the “sneaky,” and mucking up the enemies’ plans. Covert ops, for the win! Also, know your allies. On whom can you depend? Who will take the enemy’s side? Gathering allies to the cause of anti-abuse/anti-rape/anti-CREEP is important.
Getting out safely definitely IS the primary goal, in the moment. Now, I can’t run much. Therefore, my options are pretty much fight or freeze. You do whatever works for you, in that particular situation. Another option is distraction, giving you the opportunity to escape. The last thing I want is a footrace, with an undistracted guy chasing me. Unless the jerk is even less physically fit/coordinated than I am, I will lose. But if he’s temporarily distracted, I can get around the corner and find a hidden place, or maybe an alternate route that he can’t see, and be fine.
Heck, sometimes, I’ll shout, “HALLELUIAH! PRAISE THE LORD! It’s a MAN!” just to mess with them. It scares them away, too, and no physical contact is needed. This technique was taught to me by a very religious woman, who told me it got a better result than yelling “Help! Rape!” On the street, if you yell “Help!” many people will activate their “Not my problem” code and ignore you. But if you make a scene that makes them think you are a spectacle to watch, they’ll watch, and see the person abusing you, and the abuser will see that he’s being watched, and it will often lead to an end of that particular attack.
These are strategies for an “on the street/stranger” attack. Your strategies will probably differ when dealing with a known abuser, because they know where you live, and can retaliate later.
Remember, battles are fought in moments. Wars are fought long-term. And it takes lots of battles to end a war.
I do think that the more of us who learn to defend ourselves, the more we will “confuse the enemy.” No, men are not the enemy. Jerks are the enemy. And confusing them is very good. Thus, varied responses mess up their scripts, and I like messing up their scripts. It’s a cumulative effect, though, and it will take time to turn even a few of them. Still, I hold on to hope for the future. If even *one* jerk learns to stop, then it’s worth it.
Not every woman can or wants to learn defense, and NO ONE should feel they are obligated to do so. Just as no survivor of abuse/rape/attack is obligated to report it, if they feel they will be doubly-victimized by the authorities to whom they are reporting. We’re individuals, with individuals strengths and weaknesses and needs. We complement each other.
As for the history of abuse, I completely understand keeping it a secret from family and friends. I did, for a long time. But after a while, when the whole family was well away from the jerks, I did tell my family. It helped them to understand me, better. Also, once my niece and nephew hit their teens, I started talking to them about it. I told them that if they are ever bullied, they can come to me for support, because I understand it. Talking to someone who’s never gone through it can be extremely frustrating, but they are guaranteed that I will never ask, “What were you wearing,” or “did you tease them,” or “were you inviting,” or any of those BS questions.
I’m putting my story out there, to make more survivors feel safe and supported. That is my choice for my own experience. YMMV.
Sorry for the long post. I just didn’t see how to break it all up.
Kim – that is great! Hopefully, you’ll only ever use it for fun and fitness, but doesn’t it feel good to know that you *can* be an expert at escape, should the need arise? For that matter, should you ever need to chase down a perp, you’d be awesome at that, too.
Where do you even get training in parkour?
@BQS – I hope your boss didn’t hold it against you. What a situation! He should not have put you into that situation.
There is a reason for those old-timey tales of the prince entering the jousting matches incognito, because no one wanted to go up against him, knowingly.
Completely OT, but I just had to share this with someone: This is the latest posts on http://shitrichcollegekidssay.tumblr.com”
Yeah, real “literature” of you, there.
Aaaannd, I finally figured out block quotes. I think.
Yaaay!
Being raised in this reality, no. Again, what if you don’t or can’t look feminine? Do you not see the problem with how you’re framing this?