So this little screenshot is making the rounds on the internet. It’s from 4chan, so who knows if the guy posting it is sincere. But I’ve seen similar, albeit less histrionic, complaints from other would-be pickup artistes in the past.
Guess what, dude. Some of those women wearing earbuds aren’t even listening to music. They just wear them to avoid creepy dudes like you.
I think you totally did the right thing, marci. You sound like an awesome friend.
@NonServiam-You aren’t doing anything wrong. They know what headphones/earbuds mean, the POS just resent your right to not be available to them if they so choose to engage you, so they invade your boundary.
I originally read this thread yesterday and I’ve been thinking about the poor woman being stalked quite a bit. I noticed that slimy little weasel posted that back in March and I hope she is safe. His entitled juvenile ranting about a dead inventor, obstacles in his way, and women not sitting up at attention, waiting for him to approach is very disturbing. I won’t even get into the whole cleaning up in the bathroom thing.
I don’t know what in the hell makes men like him think it should be such a compliment to women to have a man that obsessed just based on how we look, but it’s not. It sends up every red flag we know. We get that the initial attraction is about looks, but to be that obsessed, stalkerish, and angry just because a women is “so pretty” is creepy with a capital C.
Oh, and raise your hand if you really think this guy would have shut up if he had gotten his one chaaaaaaaance and had been rejected.
I, too, am sick of the ‘nazi’ term thrown around, especially by the men in the manosphere who share the German Nazi’s beliefs concerning their ‘superior’ race and gender, breeding, and the control of others, especially women.
Talk about major projection.
Being a woman in public. You should really make sure that you leave your secondary sexual characteristics at home if you don’t want to be pestered by horny men.
I’m all for a campaign for women to back each other up when we’re being harassed, btw. There’s no point hoping that “someone else” will step in, because the bystander effect ensures that if there are a bunch of people around everyone else is also thinking that maybe someone else will do something. Obviously there are times when we can’t intervene without putting our own safety at risk, but I’ve found that often if one woman starts the “hey, leave her alone” then others will then join in.
I’ve definitely tried supporting women I’ve seen being harassed on the bus. It’s scary the first few times you do it, but it gets easier with practice. Sometimes it’s as simple as offering them your seat so they can get away from someone, and then standing between them.
The worst is when they harass kids. There’s an elementary school on my usual bus route, and I have seen way too frequently. I swear, I sometimes find myself actually growling at the dudes.
Sometimes when I see that starting to happen I’ll just sit my ass down right between the creep and the kid he’s targeting and then sit there watching him all “really? still going to try it?”.
I once saw a guy tell a girl sitting in front of him, who looked to be about 11 or 12, that her hair was beautiful, and then reach out to stroke it. The guy sitting next to him said very calmly, “If you touch her again I will push you out the window into traffic.” I was glad to know I wasn’t the only one with that reaction.
I suppose that was misandry. I mean guys are under such pressure to approach.
:: vomits ::
At the online comic Basic Instructions, the cartoonist has a panel showing his ‘your hide will make a fine poncho’ smile. It should do nicely for any dudebro asking a woman to smile.
Speaking for myself, the idea of asking ANYone to smile seems unspeakably rude. Although, last week, I was out walking down the street. It was my first day out of the house that week. A younger couple was walking the opposite direction, and, as we passed each other, she snapped, “wipe that smile off your face!”
Don’t know what response she was expecting, but being completely ignored probably wasn’t it. And that was that. Somehow, I didn’t go home and post a blog message about her rank misandry.
(Applauds the guy on cloudiah’s bus)
@Michelle
“Yeah, I actually had a guy say that to me, in HIGH SCHOOL. We’d never even gone on a date, but he told me I had no right to refuse him.
Arrggghhh.”
Arrrghhh is right. That kind of entitlement is scary.
You did not go, I hope?
::applauds Marci and the guy on cloudiah’s bus and cassandrakitty::
@cloudiah – “I once saw a guy tell a girl sitting in front of him, who looked to be about 11 or 12, that her hair was beautiful, and then reach out to stroke it. ”
OK, when I am on my pain pills, I notice the pretties. I mean, I REALLY notice anything that is pretty. And I blurt it out. Usually it’s “GASP! PRETTY!” sometimes followed with a specification of what, precisely, grabbed my attention, such as “I love your dress!”
For all my being high, I don’t reach out to GRAB it. Blergh.
Interestingly enough, no one ever seems to take it as me being creepy, or hitting on them. That’s probably because I have tone/body language that gives away sincere admiration, rather than anything sexual. It’s hard to get “sexy/creepy” vibes when someone asks, “where did you get that dress?” or “I like that hairstyle,” because these things, while being really visual, are completely separated from the sexuality of the person involved. They’re saying, “You have good taste in choosing clothes,” or “How creative,” and that sort of thing.
But again, I don’t reach out physically, and I don’t feel entitled. And it’s usually just said as I pass by and continue on my way, anyway.
Now, when I am sober, I also notice the pretties, and I enjoy them, but I tend to keep such compliments to myself, as most people don’t really want to be commented upon by total strangers.
My sister says I’m a very nice (not Nice) drunk, in that even though I have no filters while high, I still don’t say anything hurtful. Truthfully, that’s probably because I’m too busy focusing on the pretty colors and shapes. She hasn’t seen me when I was dumb enough to get on political/social blogs while under the influence. I can post some stupid stuff, and have accidentally offended people. But the intention isn’t there, at least, and for the most part (I have may share of privilege), neither is the entitlement.
TL;DR – Please don’t blame this kind of behavior on someone being less-than-normal, in the head. Creepiness is a whole different thing than just being somehow impaired.
@emma – No, I did not go on a date with him, nor did I sit on his lap when he “invited me,” nor did I have sex with him or kiss him, or do anything else of that nature.
For six months.
He and his friend sexually harassed me (and at some points it became violent against me) for six months.
At graduation, I was one of the first people out of the auditorium, and as I walked into the cafeteria, where the post-graduation party was going to be, these two came in, saw me, and started in with their little act. I bolted. I grabbed my family and friend, and said, “Graduations, over. Let’s go NOW!” So much for saying goodbye to classmates and the like. My graduation memory was ruined by these jerks.
This is the same guy who, six months later, when I went to confront him about how awful he had been to me, actually managed to manipulate me into apologizing to him for being “too sensitive,” and such an irresistible target that he just HAD to torment me.
Did I mention the punching me in the head thing? He and his pal put on boxing gloves and punched me in the head, because I continued to refuse to have sex with either of them. They were laughing, and no one on the bus did anything to stop it.
When I told people later, I was just so relieved and grateful that they never actually raped me. I think, if they had tried to actually penetrate, they would have gotten away with it. Nobody stopped them from grabbing and groping and manhandling me.
So, for those of you who stand up, in any small way, for the people you see being harassed, THANK YOU!!!!!! It makes a world of difference to the psyche of the victim, knowing she/he is not alone, but has someone who cares. Even if your efforts are ineffectual, in the moment, it still helps the victim’s heart and soul to heal.
P.S. to add: At the time, I had some self-esteem issues, and did not feel I really deserved to be protected, let alone avenged. My father heard about ONE incident, and it was all I could do to calm him down, because he was all set to have the guy’s father sent home (he lived on a military base, in Europe, and my Dad had the clout to destroy the man). I figured the father didn’t deserve to be destroyed, because of the actions of the son, and one of these two twits had a sister who had been kind to me, so I didn’t want her life destroyed, either.
After that, I actually lied to my parents about all my bruises, so they wouldn’t know about my abuse. I actually was clumsy, and blamed the bruises on random accidents (which actually DID occur, but did not cause those specific bruises), and they believed it. It’s scary how good a liar I was.
They weren’t there to see it. I do not in any way blame them for failure to protect me, because I did not allow it.
I blame the people who were right there, and saw it, every day, and did nothing.
Oh, Michelle. I’m… speechless. And so sorry you had to endure that. No one, ever, should be subjected to such abuse. Alas.
Yes, I suppose you were lucky they did not rape you. Ugh. Ugh.
Oh man, sorry about the double posting.
Nonserviam, I think this is why the whole ban bossy thing is a step in the right direction. Women (and girls) who have the ability and opportunity to step up and be the back-up for others, regardless of gender, should be encouraged to do so. I have been told all my life that I’m too aggressive, that I am arrogant and that I act like a man. People have tried to put me “in my place” so many times. Which is why I know that when we talk about gender roles being still oppressive to most people, especially women, I know it isn’t just blowing smoke.
Michelle, thank you for sharing your story and I am so sorry that happened to you. A friend of mine had a similar experience with a boy in high school. I talk to my daughter all the time about bullying because I really think that this generation of kids really has the opportunity to make this sort of thing a thing of the past. I have basically told her that no matter what she does to protect herself or a friend, even if she gets into trouble with the school, I will back her up. The schools can either get serious about doing something about the bullies or they can get out of the way.
I never knew how much intimidation privilege I have until I started reading feminist blogs! I’m a lot like marci; I’ve been told at various times in my life that I’m intimidating. Once by a rather large man. This is obviously why I have never had much of a problem with harassment.
I so wish that I could teach techniques or something, but I think I just kinda picked it up from my mom who was a rather intimidating person herself.
Michelle, I’m so sorry you went through that. Barrels of kitty hugs if you want them.
(Of course kitty hugs have to be paid for by lifetime subservience to the Furrinati Overlords, but it’s a small price to pay.)
I’m not sure it is something a person can consciously choose to do. My mom is nothing like me and I grew up without a father, so I’m fairly sure it isn’t something I learned from any one person. Also most people like to be open and friendly (in appearance and such), and I wouldn’t want everyone to feel like they need to walk around looking like a gargoyle all the time. The world just needs to evolve so that all genders can feel safe and respected in public. I like to knock the assholes, bullies and abusers down a few pegs when I get the opportunity…but there are ways for everyone to take their stand too.
Damn…that last comment was to twincats. Blah.
Thanks, people! For about six months after graduation, I couldn’t stand to be hugged, or even touched, except by family. But now I can, and I love hugs!
One thing I’ll say about my past experience – it has taught me compassion, and the need to stand up for others who are being bullied and harassed. Even if all I am capable of doing is saying, “Stop that!” Even if my words and actions don’t even cause the bully to pause. The victim hears, and feels.
Feeling that you’re not alone in the fight, feeling that you’re a person who has the right to be safe and free from attack, feeling that you have the bodily autonomy and the right to say, “NO!” Sometimes, it’s been so bad for so long that the victim has lost those feelings, and if I can restore them, then I have helped.
After all, feeling, and eventually KNOWING, that I absolutely do have the right to choose who touches me, and how, has given me more strength and courage to face the world.
Also, while I do hope to marry someday, I have learned never to settle for a man who is a Nice Guy (™). I will not give myself to anyone but a genuinely KIND man, a good man who cares about others, and does what it takes to help them, and accepts that he is not entitled to my, nor to anyone else’s, body, attention, or love. I’d rather die without ever having been kissed than tie myself, even for a short time, to a Nice Guy (™).
I’m alone, but I’m not lonely, because I have friends and family who love me, and value me and accept me for who I am, without expectations.
So, that is one good thing that came of my abuse. But it didn’t come from my abusers, and I’m never going to thank THEM for it.
This is actually why I wear my earbuds even when I’m not listening to music. It is amazingly effective.
But cassandrakitty, my secondary sexual characteristics get all lonely and antsy when I leave them at home. I get back and the pillows and curtains are all torn up…
Marci: I think I’ve been lucky because from a young age, I had a family who made me feel like I was tough enough to fight back. The thing is, even though I’m quite tall, I don’t look very intimidating. I wear far too many bows and pink! I do get harassed and then people are often more than a tad surprised when I push back! No one expects my years of boxing and jujutsu training! I sort of embrace being able to be uber-traditional femme and terrifying when I need to be. I’m also very aware that not everyone has that on their side – and that’s okay, because there are zero things wrong with not being able to throw a punch or getting scared – so I’ll be on their side instead!
But being a lot more serious: I’m really sorry Michelle. What little scumbags. All the hugs if they are wanted.
When I had to walk 17 blocks to and from the train to get to work in a large city, I ended up giving up my earbuds and buying the largest most obvious pair of headphones I could find. I frequently wasn’t even playing anything on them, it was just the easiest way I’d figured out to be left alone and it cut down enormously on heckling and harassment.