Categories
alpha males antifeminism boner rage doubling down empathy deficit entitled babies evil sexy ladies evil wives marital rape men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny patriarchy playing the victim rape rape culture reactionary bullshit red pill vox day

Vox Day: "The concept of marital rape is not merely an oxymoron, it is an attack on the institution of marriage, on the concept of objective law, and indeed, on the core foundation of human civilization itself."

Anti-rape protest in India
Anti-rape protest in India

Apparently worried that the world might forget what a thoroughly reprehensible human being he is, fantasy author and freelance bigot Vox Day (Theodore Beale) has decided to bring up the issue of marital rape again – in order to assert, as he has many times in the past, that marital rape doesn’t actually exist.

In a post yesterday on his blog Vox Populi, Beale notes with obvious pleasure that an Indian judge recently ruled that marital sex, “even if forcible, is not rape,” thus upholding a section of the Indian Penal Code that refuses to acknowledge marital rape as rape.

Beale crows:

Some of my dimmer critics have attempted to make a meal out of my factual statement: a man cannot rape his wife. But that is not only a fact, it is the explicit law in the greater part of the world, just as it is part of the English Common Law. …

The fact that some of the lawless governments in the decadent, demographically dying West presently call some forms of sex between a husband and wife “rape” does not transform marital sex into rape any more than a law that declared all vaginal intercourse to be rape would make it so.

Unfortunately for Beale, simply declaring that the world is on his side on this one does not make it so. It not simply a handful of “ lawless governments in the decadent, demographically dying West” that see marital rape for what it is. The United Nations has recognized marital rape as a human rights violation for more than two decades. And the world is coming around to this point of view.

While (as of 2011) only 52 countries had laws specifically criminalizing marital rape, many others don’t have a “marital rape” exemption to their rape laws, meaning that in more than 100 countries marital rape can be prosecuted. And that number will inevitably grow.

Here’s a map from Wikipedia showing the countries (in red) in which marital rape is illegal. The countries in black allow marital rape. In the other countries, it’s a bit more complicated. (See here for the details.)

From Wikipedia.
From Wikipedia.

But for now, at least, Beale is happy for another chance to explain the toxic “logic” behind his assertion that “marital rape” is impossible.

Anyone with a basic grasp of logic who thinks about the subject of “marital rape” for more than ten seconds will quickly realize that marriage grants consent on an ongoing basis. This has to be the case, otherwise every time one partner wakes the other up in an intimate manner or has sex with an inebriated spouse, rape has been committed.

Now, by Beale’s logic, a husband is entitled to force his wife to have sex over her screaming objections. Since “consent is ongoing,” in Beale’s version of marriage, a woman could say no or even fight back against her husband’s advances, but none of this would count as non-consent because once a woman is married there is no such thing.

But of course Beale doesn’t want to have to defend what is obviously – at least to anyone with any humanity – violent rape. So he tries instead to restrict the debate to the seemingly innocuous practice of “wake-up sex.” After all, what guy doesn’t want to be woken up with a blow job?

But even this example isn’t as persuasive as he thinks it is. Some people like to be woken up in an “intimate manner,” at least some of the time; some don’t, and you don’t get to override their desire not to be sexually manhandled in their sleep just because you’re married to them. And while drunk sex is not necessarily rape, marriage doesn’t give you the right to force sex on a partner who is intoxicated to the point of incapacity.

And for those who wish to argue that consent can be withdrawn, there is a word for withdrawing consent in a marriage. That word is “divorce”.

No, that word is “no.” There is no such thing as ongoing consent to sex. The fact that you are married to someone doesn’t give you the right to have sex with them whenever and wherever you want, whether they want to or not, any more than the fact that someone is a professional boxer gives you the right to punch them in the head any time you feel like it.

The concept of marital rape is not merely an oxymoron, it is an attack on the institution of marriage, on the concept of objective law, and indeed, on the core foundation of human civilization itself.

No, Mr. Beale, you having the right to do whatever you want to with your dick is not the basis of civilization itself. Civilization, in fact, is built in part on the repression of some of our darkest desires. Part of growing up is reconciling ourselves to the sad fact that we can’t just do whatever the hell we want to all the time; Freud described this as putting behind the “pleasure principle” of infancy and early childhood for the “reality principle” that governs the more mature mind.

Beale seems to be driven not only by a desire for instant sexual gratification, whenever and wherever he wants, but also by a certain degree of sexual insecurity. In a previous post on the subject, he wrote:

If a woman believes in the concept of marital rape, absolutely do not marry her! It would make no sense whatsoever to marry a woman who believes that being married to her grants her husband no more sexual privilege than the next unemployed musician who happens to catch her eye.

Beale seems to think that if married women are allowed to say no to their husbands, they’ll desert these poor beta schlubs en masse in favor of scruffy alphas with guitars. At the root of all his arguments against the idea of marital rape is an obvious terror of unrestricted female choice.

In a way Beale’s petulant, self-serving defenses of marital rape serve a positive function, in that they help to remind us how abhorrent the practice is and how nonsensical the “arguments” in favor of allowing it really are.

Every time he opens his mouth on the subject, he helps to strengthen the growing consensus against marital rape.

526 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
jayemgriffin
10 years ago

You cannot say that rape should be prosecuted, and then simultaneously argue for making that prosecution more difficult and therefore more unlikely. It makes one believe that you don’t really *mean* that first part.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

*think not thing.

You cannot say that rape should be prosecuted, and then simultaneously argue for making that prosecution more difficult and therefore more unlikely. It makes one believe that you don’t really *mean* that first part.

^all of this.

Wetherby
Wetherby
10 years ago

I don’t understand the mentality of “men” like this. Personally, the idea of having sex with an unwilling partner renders me incapable of the act (if ya know what I mean). Consent, on the other hand, really gets me going…

Well, yes. I’m assuming the number of times I’ve had sex must be in four figures by now, and – hand on heart – I can’t think of a single case where my partner wasn’t obviously consenting.

And by “obviously” I don’t necessarily mean verbal consent, never mind written – it really, really isn’t hard to tell if you actually care about what your partner feels about the whole situation.

Fade
10 years ago

this is completely off topic it’s just a post to see if i can post under ‘fade’ again instead of greendaywantsavatars

dustedeste
dustedeste
10 years ago

Realized that my last comment could be construed as saying stranger rape shouldn’t be taken seriously. That was not my intention; my intention was to point out that Gary’s justification for erasing marital rape and making it harder to prosecute is complete and utter bullshit.

Howard Bannister
10 years ago

I mean, here’s an interesting statistic: how many rapes get prosecuted? How many rapists do time?

Can we do better than 3%?

So, yeah, excuse you and your ‘maybe we need a higher standard of proof.’

tenya
tenya
10 years ago

I had encountered the “marital rape isn’t a real thing” wackos before and their thing was, as noted in a prior comment, this assumption that marriage somehow confers a “it is likely this couple would consent to sex together” aura (unlike apparently any other set of people evar) that should make rape unbelievable (gross) AND that obviously if the couple liked each other enough to get married and live together and consent to sex sometimes then it was impossible that one of them is a rapist. Ie, it is un-possible for someone to
A: get married under pressured circumstances
or
B: get married and their partner changes their behavior

I remember having a long “what, you don’t think essentially arranged marriages still happen?” conversation with an MRA that actually seemed to change them from a ‘there is no such thing as marital rape’ stance, but ONLY in appealing to xenophobia. They don’t believe that ‘uppity western women’ might possibly, in some universe, experience something resembling rape – because they’re all just making it up, right? No way that someone who is abusive is going to possibly also be charming and convince anyone, including their victim, they’re a great guy. nope nope, would never happen.

Catfish
Catfish
10 years ago

Marriage = consent is a backwards argument completely devoid of logic. The entire things falls flat immediately when you take negotiating matters into consideration.

If your partner makes it clear that they do or don’t approve of such, then act accordingly. PROBLEM SOLVED OMG GENIUS ! :O

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

not all accusations of rape are as believable as others.

Hi again, Gary! I did make it clear that we know that you’re a potential danger to women already, right? Feel free to keep proving it if you want, just thought I might save you some effort.

Unfortunately we live in a much more complicated world than that, and as uncomfortable as it may be, such truths need to be addressed in more nuanced ways than you currently have

Oh, you mean uncomfortable truths like the fact that you’re trying to convince everyone that there are some circumstances in which we should usually assume that a woman who says she’s been raped is lying, and the even more uncomfortable truth that your taking this position allows us to infer certain not very flattering things about you? Yeah, I can see how that would make you uncomfortable. Shame that it’s still true, huh?

Ally S
10 years ago

Brain bleach:

katz
10 years ago

One logical problem with marriage = consent that ought to make sense even to logic-bots is that, if marriage is consent to everything always, then if there was a sex act you didn’t want to do, you would never be able to get married. For instance, if you’re not into anal, you couldn’t marry, because marrying would give your spouse the right to do anal even if you don’t want to.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

Actually, I sort of assumed that most of the people who say “husbands love their wives so it can’t be rape” or something, that maybe they don’t realize that the logical extension of that position is “a married woman must be literally willing to have sex at any time and never say no.” That maybe it would give them a little pause if they were called out on it. But not this guy, he’s embracing it. Literally saying “Why’d you get married if you didn’t want to give up your right to ever refuse sex?” as if that’s a reasonable thing to say. That’s it, I got nothing.

Personally, I would have thought if you loved someone you would respect their consent, but I only have ladybrainz and can’t manlogic like VD.

Unfortunately we live in a much more complicated world than that, and as uncomfortable as it may be, such truths need to be addressed in more nuanced ways than you currently have.

Rape is rape. There is no nuance. It’s not complicated. If there isn’t consent, it is rape.

Stupid neckbeard is stupid.

katz
10 years ago

Ally: SCOTTISH FOLD!

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
10 years ago

rape without assault or battery

Is not even a thing. It’s not nonviolent just because you used your dick instead of your hands.

So, if a big burly man comes into a police station and claims a 14 y.o. girl raped him, the threshold level of belief is going to be rather high to overcome. It is likely that the police will not charge the 14 y.o. girl, irrespective of the claim or evidence.

To you, a large man being raped by a small woman is so absurd that you assume, and expect us to assume, that it didn’t happen. Otherwise your point makes no sense. But see, if a large man was indeed raped by a small young woman, the police would be wrong to dismiss his claims, and so would you.

A woman who charges a man who she doesn’t know raped her in an alley, will get far more serious attention.

Thanks for mansplaining to us what women have been pointing out for decades.

And on that scale of threshold proof, a married woman who claims her husband of several years raped her, would fall in between.

BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE VOX DAY. Because of the belief that women consent to all sex when they agree to marriage. This is a problem.

The practical end of this all is, although rape, if it happened, should be taken seriously and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law – not all accusations of rape are as believable as others.

The battle cry of the perpetual rape doubter. I wonder how often you believe people who say they were raped.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
10 years ago

And to be clear, rape should never happen, and if it does it should be prosecuted.

The reason you keep having to say this is that the rest of what you’re saying contradicts it. In case you were wondering.

Ally S
10 years ago

@katz

I know, right? Just watching that video brightened my day. It’s my favorite brain bleach video of all time.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

So, if a big burly man comes into a police station and claims a 14 y.o. girl raped him, the threshold level of belief is going to be rather high to overcome. It is likely that the police will not charge the 14 y.o. girl, irrespective of the claim or evidence.

Further evidence that the manospherians only pretend to care about male rape victims. From the stories I’ve heard men who have been raped tell, a great deal of them were raped when they were incapacitated due to alcohol or drugs. A small woman isn’t likely overpower and rape a large man, but a small woman absolutely could rape a large man who is too intoxicated to consent.

It is also unfortunately common for severely disabled people to be raped by those who are supposed to be their caregivers and some of those victims are large men.

I have a gif gift for you Gary
http://media.giphy.com/media/BmBXfB1a7TQFa/giphy.gif

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

I have brain bleach too.

Ally S
10 years ago

My sister’s two cats cuddling: http://i.imgur.com/SpQChgK.jpg

Lea
Lea
10 years ago

Hey Gary!
Thanks for mansplaining rape to us. We women sure were wearing some rose colored glasses until you came along to set us straight about how we’re a bunch of vindictive liars and what “legitimate” ….I’m sorry “believable” rape is.

I know several women who have been raped repeatedly by their ex husbands/boyfriends. I guess I should explain to them that they’re probably just making that up.

Thanks also for saying that as a married woman, I pretty much set myself up to be disbelieved if the man I married should decide to rape me. Women should definitely stay the hell away from men and never marry them. It’s just too dangerous. I know that now.

Just kidding. Fuck you.

Lids
10 years ago

I also really hate the assumption that marriage and sex necessarily are always going to go hand in hand. I’m asexual, and though I’m not sex-repulsed I know quite a few asexual people who are, but who also have romantic orientations and would get married but would not want to be having sex at all (some unfortunately do have sex because even though they aren’t interested their spouse/SO is and some have said that their SO has made them feel bad for not liking sex which really makes me angry).

But let’s just pretend everyone has sex and if you are getting married that means you are going to have sex with your spouse always.

Also the fact that marital rape wasn’t made illegal in the US until the year I was fucking BORN is horrifying. Marital rape laws have only been around in the country I live in as long as I have. That’s just so fucking disgusting to me. 21 years is not nearly long enough. Forever wouldn’t have been nearly long enough. Ugh.

I wish the absolute worst for Vox – I wish he realizes how fucked up the things he does and believes are and is forced to live with the guilt of what he’s done for the rest of his life (well, that’s a nice version of what I wish for him – I have a special hate in my heart for people like Vox).

Lids
10 years ago

To clarify, I don’t mean something like “I hope he gets an eye for an eye” because I firmly believe that no one, not even rapists, deserve to be sexually assaulted.

Ally S
10 years ago

It is also unfortunately common for severely disabled people to be raped by those who are supposed to be their caregivers and some of those victims are large men.

And that’s not all. People with disabilities (severe or otherwise) are roughly twice as likely to be raped or sexually assaulted: http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/capd0912st.pdf

Dvärghundspossen
10 years ago

Anyone with a basic grasp of logic who thinks about the subject of “marital rape” for more than ten seconds will quickly realize that marriage grants consent on an ongoing basis.

LOGIC. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

ivyshoots
10 years ago

Anyone with a basic grasp of logic who thinks about the subject of “marital rape” for more than ten seconds will quickly realize that marriage grants consent on an ongoing basis.

Oh, the irony of claiming the logical high ground while being as illogical as fuck. He’s arguing that agreeing to marry means consenting to sex while running a high fever and puking your guts up, or recovering from surgery or childbirth, or being late to work, or hosting a party, or tending to a sick child, or running a marathon, or trying to fulfill any of the million-and-one obligations adults need to attend to “on an ongoing basis.”