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Vox Day: "The concept of marital rape is not merely an oxymoron, it is an attack on the institution of marriage, on the concept of objective law, and indeed, on the core foundation of human civilization itself."

Anti-rape protest in India
Anti-rape protest in India

Apparently worried that the world might forget what a thoroughly reprehensible human being he is, fantasy author and freelance bigot Vox Day (Theodore Beale) has decided to bring up the issue of marital rape again – in order to assert, as he has many times in the past, that marital rape doesn’t actually exist.

In a post yesterday on his blog Vox Populi, Beale notes with obvious pleasure that an Indian judge recently ruled that marital sex, “even if forcible, is not rape,” thus upholding a section of the Indian Penal Code that refuses to acknowledge marital rape as rape.

Beale crows:

Some of my dimmer critics have attempted to make a meal out of my factual statement: a man cannot rape his wife. But that is not only a fact, it is the explicit law in the greater part of the world, just as it is part of the English Common Law. …

The fact that some of the lawless governments in the decadent, demographically dying West presently call some forms of sex between a husband and wife “rape” does not transform marital sex into rape any more than a law that declared all vaginal intercourse to be rape would make it so.

Unfortunately for Beale, simply declaring that the world is on his side on this one does not make it so. It not simply a handful of “ lawless governments in the decadent, demographically dying West” that see marital rape for what it is. The United Nations has recognized marital rape as a human rights violation for more than two decades. And the world is coming around to this point of view.

While (as of 2011) only 52 countries had laws specifically criminalizing marital rape, many others don’t have a “marital rape” exemption to their rape laws, meaning that in more than 100 countries marital rape can be prosecuted. And that number will inevitably grow.

Here’s a map from Wikipedia showing the countries (in red) in which marital rape is illegal. The countries in black allow marital rape. In the other countries, it’s a bit more complicated. (See here for the details.)

From Wikipedia.
From Wikipedia.

But for now, at least, Beale is happy for another chance to explain the toxic “logic” behind his assertion that “marital rape” is impossible.

Anyone with a basic grasp of logic who thinks about the subject of “marital rape” for more than ten seconds will quickly realize that marriage grants consent on an ongoing basis. This has to be the case, otherwise every time one partner wakes the other up in an intimate manner or has sex with an inebriated spouse, rape has been committed.

Now, by Beale’s logic, a husband is entitled to force his wife to have sex over her screaming objections. Since “consent is ongoing,” in Beale’s version of marriage, a woman could say no or even fight back against her husband’s advances, but none of this would count as non-consent because once a woman is married there is no such thing.

But of course Beale doesn’t want to have to defend what is obviously – at least to anyone with any humanity – violent rape. So he tries instead to restrict the debate to the seemingly innocuous practice of “wake-up sex.” After all, what guy doesn’t want to be woken up with a blow job?

But even this example isn’t as persuasive as he thinks it is. Some people like to be woken up in an “intimate manner,” at least some of the time; some don’t, and you don’t get to override their desire not to be sexually manhandled in their sleep just because you’re married to them. And while drunk sex is not necessarily rape, marriage doesn’t give you the right to force sex on a partner who is intoxicated to the point of incapacity.

And for those who wish to argue that consent can be withdrawn, there is a word for withdrawing consent in a marriage. That word is “divorce”.

No, that word is “no.” There is no such thing as ongoing consent to sex. The fact that you are married to someone doesn’t give you the right to have sex with them whenever and wherever you want, whether they want to or not, any more than the fact that someone is a professional boxer gives you the right to punch them in the head any time you feel like it.

The concept of marital rape is not merely an oxymoron, it is an attack on the institution of marriage, on the concept of objective law, and indeed, on the core foundation of human civilization itself.

No, Mr. Beale, you having the right to do whatever you want to with your dick is not the basis of civilization itself. Civilization, in fact, is built in part on the repression of some of our darkest desires. Part of growing up is reconciling ourselves to the sad fact that we can’t just do whatever the hell we want to all the time; Freud described this as putting behind the “pleasure principle” of infancy and early childhood for the “reality principle” that governs the more mature mind.

Beale seems to be driven not only by a desire for instant sexual gratification, whenever and wherever he wants, but also by a certain degree of sexual insecurity. In a previous post on the subject, he wrote:

If a woman believes in the concept of marital rape, absolutely do not marry her! It would make no sense whatsoever to marry a woman who believes that being married to her grants her husband no more sexual privilege than the next unemployed musician who happens to catch her eye.

Beale seems to think that if married women are allowed to say no to their husbands, they’ll desert these poor beta schlubs en masse in favor of scruffy alphas with guitars. At the root of all his arguments against the idea of marital rape is an obvious terror of unrestricted female choice.

In a way Beale’s petulant, self-serving defenses of marital rape serve a positive function, in that they help to remind us how abhorrent the practice is and how nonsensical the “arguments” in favor of allowing it really are.

Every time he opens his mouth on the subject, he helps to strengthen the growing consensus against marital rape.

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sparky
sparky
10 years ago

Marie: I don’t think you’re being unfair at all. Expecting your stepmom to refrain from saying ignorant shit around you, and treating you like a human being, is not unreasonable at all. I think that your father should be able to stick up for you in this. He’s your father and telling his wife to treat his daughter like a human being is, well, it’s kinda his job as a parent.

katz
10 years ago

I don’t see how it could be at all unfair for you to expect your father not to stand by and let people be mean to you.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@sparky

well, I also wanted him to stick up for me when I wasn’t there, so idk if you think that’s different?

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

Marie: Nope, not at all.

Your stepmother should not be saying bad things about you, period. I don’t think your father should be okay with his wife bad-mouthing his daughter.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@sparky

dang, now I”m worried if I’m explaining this right.

I mean like sometimes she’s badmouthing me personally. (I know she tried to get him to change how I dress.) but sometimes she’s badmouthing women in general and gay people in general.

And I’m one of those. So I take it personally.

idk if any of this makes any sense. Sorry guys.

Ally S
10 years ago

@Marie

Basically I wanted him to stand up for me more, and actually call her out on her shit, and he kept dodging with ‘well I’m not very confrontational’ and shit. We talked around each other for almost an hour, when he eventually snapped at me for being ‘too confrontational’ and stormed out of the room.

idk if I’m being unfair? But I don’t actually think it’s that unreasonable for me to want him to talk to his wife when she can’t treat me like a human being ^-^

As someone who is extremely afraid of confrontation (mainly in meatspace), I understand that not everyone wants to be confrontational. Especially if they have an anxiety disorder like me.

But it’s not unfair to expect him to be a little braver for your sake. I presume your step-mom has treated you like garbage to an overwhelming degree, and for your sake your father should try to defend you.

Perhaps you should ask your father to call her out, defend you, etc. and make a tiny compromise: if he is so afraid of confrontation (presumably) due to the risk of receiving her anger, then he can just call her out and defend you in firm but less confrontational ways.

Of course, it’s just an idea I’m throwing out there – do what you wish. And regardless of what you decide to do, I think your frustration with your father is entirely fair. I know what it’s like to be let down by someone who is supposed to care for you and defend you from assholes. It sucks.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@ally

:/ I don’t think my dad has an anxiety disorder, though he may. He has depression, and I have depression + anxiety, so he may, but idk. either way I don’t want to theorize about his mental health online. It’s just, earlier in life he never had a problem yelling at us. So idk if I’m so sold on him not wanting confrontation.

I mean, TW something to do with child mistreatment.

But he’s kept me in rooms by guarding the exit with his body, and chased me down the street and tackled me. But suddenly standing up to my stepmom is too much confrontation?

Of course he treats me better now that I”m an adult Idk if he’s actually changed or he just thinks he should deal with adults differently.

Perhaps you should ask your father to call her out, defend you, etc. and make a tiny compromise: if he is so afraid of confrontation (presumably) due to the risk of receiving her anger, then he can just call her out and defend you in firm but less confrontational ways.

That’s a good idea. Thanks for saying it. If I do manage to talk to him again I’ll try to give him some.

hippodameia8527
hippodameia8527
10 years ago

I think you’re being completely fair, and I’m so sorry that your father is being horrible to you.

Ally S
10 years ago

@Marie

Sorry if that came off as armchair-diagnosing your father. I was just talking about myself when I mentioned anxiety. You know much more about him than I do, but I think the advice stands regardless of whether he actually has an anxiety disorder.

dang, now I”m worried if I’m explaining this right.

I mean like sometimes she’s badmouthing me personally. (I know she tried to get him to change how I dress.) but sometimes she’s badmouthing women in general and gay people in general.

And I’m one of those. So I take it personally.

idk if any of this makes any sense. Sorry guys.

[CN: transmisogyny, violence]

It makes sense to me. Some people I know talk about trans women like they’re worthless fetish objects to be raped and then disposed of. And then I hear people say “No matter how much a tr*nny tries to look like a woman, he [sic] won’t ever pass completely.” None of that is purposefully directed at me, but it still hurts.

An insult doesn’t have to be intended to be taken seriously by the target in order for the target to take it personally. And it is completely understandable to take such words personally because they’re mocking and/or condemning the core of who I am. So yeah, you have no reason to feel foolish or reprehensible for being hurt by your step-mom’s words.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@ally

Sorry if that came off as armchair-diagnosing your father. I was just talking about myself when I mentioned anxiety.

No, you made perfect sense, I got you were just talking about personal experience.

Ally S
10 years ago

[CN: abuse, misogyny]

Also, if it helps to hear: a major form of emotional abuse from my dad has been talking about others I love in an extremely hateful, mean-spirited way. He would call my mom a slut and a prostitute and never gave a shit about how that made me feel because all he cared about was his shitty morality. None of that was directed at me, and in fact, my mother wasn’t/isn’t even the core of who I am. Yet I was deeply hurt by his words because I’m attached to her and she cares for me a lot. So yeah, another example of words that can still hurt even when not intentionally/unintentionally directed at you .

kittehserf
10 years ago

Marie, given what you’ve just told us about how he treated you earlier (chasing, tackling and so on) then he’s got even less excuse for not standing up for you, unless the depression really has undermined him that much. But that guess is as far as I’m going (and apologies if it’s too far).

On the general bigotry vs the specifically aimed at you bigotry – same thing; she shouldn’t be saying that crap at all. If nothing else, he could be saying “You do realise you’re talking about my daughter when you say that. Cut it out.”

Though now I’m wondering if he’s afraid of your stepmother. She sounds like a horrible person.

Ally S
10 years ago

Marie, if you don’t mind sharing, what’s an example of something really awful and, say, lesbophobic that your step-mom says?

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

Marie: You are explaining things quite well. 🙂

And, yes, I don’t think you are being unfair and unreasonable at all.

You can’t really control what goes on in private conversations between them, but I just don’t think it’s unreasonable for your father to not be okay with misogyny and homophobia from your stepmother. Epecially since he has a gay daughter. Especially since he knows it bothers you.

Ally explained this a lot better; an insult doesn’t have to be personally directed at you to be hurtful.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@Ally

::offers hugs::

And yeah I get what you mean about words hurting. Though I don’t think my dad’s done near as much shit as your dad.

I mean, it’s not like I’m trying to defend my dad, but I don’t want to act like I know what you’ve been through, if that makes sense?

@kittehs

idk. I mean, at the time that happened I was also being pretty terrible, and hanging around with (undiagnosed) depression. But I don’t feel like cutting him slack? He was diagnosed, had been offered meds, and was 50 + where as I was 13/14. And seeing as how I can barely get him to apologize for the most hurtful (imo) thing he did, having me instantutionalized, I haven’t even touched his other things.

God, I feel like all of this talk makes my dad sound like a terrible person. But he kind of has done a lot of terrible shit. It just feels differently to type it up.

If nothing else, he could be saying “You do realise you’re talking about my daughter when you say that. Cut it out.”

that’d work for some of it :p I mean, I guess for talking about Fade, since Fade did come out to her, but I’m not out to her and don’t plan to be. Works for the sexism stuff, though. And when she’s whining to him about my ‘slutty’ clothes :/

Though now I’m wondering if he’s afraid of your stepmother. She sounds like a horrible person.

I mean…I really don’t know if he is. Problem is, as far as I can tell, she treats him like an equal (and usually treats men much better than she treats women) but that doesn’t really mean he’s not afraid or nothings wrong.

blah. Idk. I’m just confused.

Ally S
10 years ago

@Marie

I mean, it’s not like I’m trying to defend my dad, but I don’t want to act like I know what you’ve been through, if that makes sense?

No worries – I got it.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@Ally

Marie, if you don’t mind sharing, what’s an example of something really awful and, say, lesbophobic that your step-mom says?

Heh. I don’t even know if she thinks lesbians exist. She should know bi people exist, cuz my sister came out to her, but it’s hard to tell.

She calls anyone who’s queer people of ‘homosexual orientation’. She went on this rant about how she left her old church because they let gay preachers in, and then tried to back down and say that wasn’t what she really meant.

It was the tipping point when I just gave up, but she said a lot of shit earlier. I guess what seemed the most personal was how she took me upstairs to yell at me about my clothing choices, and saying how I ‘was a beautiful young women’ and why did I need to dress like that. I think that one hurt the most because she’d been having my dad get on my back for it the couple months before hand.

@sparky

and thanks for your response 🙂

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

kittehs said:

On the general bigotry vs the specifically aimed at you bigotry – same thing; she shouldn’t be saying that crap at all. If nothing else, he could be saying “You do realise you’re talking about my daughter when you say that. Cut it out.”

This is what I’m trying to get at. If I were in your father’s shoes, I wouldn’t let bigotry aimed at a group that my child was a part of go without confronting it and telling the person to stop it. Especially if the person doing it were my spouse.

I wouldn’t let bigotry aimed at any group go unchallenged, regardless, but that’s just me. But, particularly in regards to my child. But that’s just me.

Ally S
10 years ago

@Marie

I suppose if, for example, she complains about your clothes again, you can ask your dad to tell her something like “I think Marie is a beautiful young woman when she wears other kinds of clothes as well.” You could probably think of something better for him to say, but that’s just an example I’ve thought of. If he says a lot of little things like that frequently then he can be supportive without being confrontational. Kind of like a non-confrontational ideological support. I hope I’m making sense.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@sparky

If I were in your father’s shoes, I wouldn’t let bigotry aimed at a group that my child was a part of go without confronting it and telling the person to stop it.

If only you were in my fathers shoes. Or my actual parent. Or something. I can totally make sense.

I’m also worried about her daughter. Since the stepmom’s got so much massive sexism going on there. :/

And any of her kids, should they turn out to be straight. So I’m pretty worried about her kids.

I mean, she says other shit too, that’s bigotted in not just homophobic/sexist ways, but those are where I can use my dad’s support the most (and sexism is her favorite she’s on it all the time :/) Probably cuz it’s just more taxxing when it affects you personally, if you guys get what I’m getting at.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@Ally

😛 I’ll try to remember that (or just bookmark this thread for reference.) You have much more less-confrontational suggestions than I think of 😉

I don’t even know if he will back me on that.

and yeah, you’re making sense, dont worry :3

Ally S
10 years ago

@Marie

I should note that my suggestions are subject to bias because they are in part derived from my fear of confrontation, so maybe there are suggestions I have that are a little too non-confrontational (I mean, your dad doesn’t have to be fully confrontational but I don’t think you’d appreciate him being soft to the point of being apologetic). Just something to bear in mind if you’re considering following examples like mine.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@Ally

Oh, I think they’re fine. I mean, I’d like him to be a little more confrontational than your examples, but they’re a nice starting place, and also nice cuz I suck at thinking of not-confrontational stuff.

but your examples are totally fine and appreciated, so don’t worry :3

cloudiah
10 years ago

I totally get that it’s hard to confront people, but it’s also important. It’s especially important when they’re attacking your loved ones! So you’re not being at all unreasonable, Marie.

Confrontation doesn’t have to be aggressive or angry. It can be as simple as saying, “When you say X about my daughter/about women & gay folks, it makes me feel terrible. I love my daughter/respect women & gay folks. Please don’t say that around me/my daughter.”

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

Marie,

Maybe you can ask your dad to say something like “this kind of language really bothers and hurts Marie. Could you do me a favor and avoid that when she is around?” I don’t think that’s too confrontational.

Do you live with your dad and stepmother? If not, you might have to tell your dad that you won’t see her unless she tones down her nasty speech. Even though you two are having problems I’m sure he still wants to spend time with you. I hope so anyway.