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Vox Day: "The concept of marital rape is not merely an oxymoron, it is an attack on the institution of marriage, on the concept of objective law, and indeed, on the core foundation of human civilization itself."

Anti-rape protest in India
Anti-rape protest in India

Apparently worried that the world might forget what a thoroughly reprehensible human being he is, fantasy author and freelance bigot Vox Day (Theodore Beale) has decided to bring up the issue of marital rape again – in order to assert, as he has many times in the past, that marital rape doesn’t actually exist.

In a post yesterday on his blog Vox Populi, Beale notes with obvious pleasure that an Indian judge recently ruled that marital sex, “even if forcible, is not rape,” thus upholding a section of the Indian Penal Code that refuses to acknowledge marital rape as rape.

Beale crows:

Some of my dimmer critics have attempted to make a meal out of my factual statement: a man cannot rape his wife. But that is not only a fact, it is the explicit law in the greater part of the world, just as it is part of the English Common Law. …

The fact that some of the lawless governments in the decadent, demographically dying West presently call some forms of sex between a husband and wife “rape” does not transform marital sex into rape any more than a law that declared all vaginal intercourse to be rape would make it so.

Unfortunately for Beale, simply declaring that the world is on his side on this one does not make it so. It not simply a handful of “ lawless governments in the decadent, demographically dying West” that see marital rape for what it is. The United Nations has recognized marital rape as a human rights violation for more than two decades. And the world is coming around to this point of view.

While (as of 2011) only 52 countries had laws specifically criminalizing marital rape, many others don’t have a “marital rape” exemption to their rape laws, meaning that in more than 100 countries marital rape can be prosecuted. And that number will inevitably grow.

Here’s a map from Wikipedia showing the countries (in red) in which marital rape is illegal. The countries in black allow marital rape. In the other countries, it’s a bit more complicated. (See here for the details.)

From Wikipedia.
From Wikipedia.

But for now, at least, Beale is happy for another chance to explain the toxic “logic” behind his assertion that “marital rape” is impossible.

Anyone with a basic grasp of logic who thinks about the subject of “marital rape” for more than ten seconds will quickly realize that marriage grants consent on an ongoing basis. This has to be the case, otherwise every time one partner wakes the other up in an intimate manner or has sex with an inebriated spouse, rape has been committed.

Now, by Beale’s logic, a husband is entitled to force his wife to have sex over her screaming objections. Since “consent is ongoing,” in Beale’s version of marriage, a woman could say no or even fight back against her husband’s advances, but none of this would count as non-consent because once a woman is married there is no such thing.

But of course Beale doesn’t want to have to defend what is obviously – at least to anyone with any humanity – violent rape. So he tries instead to restrict the debate to the seemingly innocuous practice of “wake-up sex.” After all, what guy doesn’t want to be woken up with a blow job?

But even this example isn’t as persuasive as he thinks it is. Some people like to be woken up in an “intimate manner,” at least some of the time; some don’t, and you don’t get to override their desire not to be sexually manhandled in their sleep just because you’re married to them. And while drunk sex is not necessarily rape, marriage doesn’t give you the right to force sex on a partner who is intoxicated to the point of incapacity.

And for those who wish to argue that consent can be withdrawn, there is a word for withdrawing consent in a marriage. That word is “divorce”.

No, that word is “no.” There is no such thing as ongoing consent to sex. The fact that you are married to someone doesn’t give you the right to have sex with them whenever and wherever you want, whether they want to or not, any more than the fact that someone is a professional boxer gives you the right to punch them in the head any time you feel like it.

The concept of marital rape is not merely an oxymoron, it is an attack on the institution of marriage, on the concept of objective law, and indeed, on the core foundation of human civilization itself.

No, Mr. Beale, you having the right to do whatever you want to with your dick is not the basis of civilization itself. Civilization, in fact, is built in part on the repression of some of our darkest desires. Part of growing up is reconciling ourselves to the sad fact that we can’t just do whatever the hell we want to all the time; Freud described this as putting behind the “pleasure principle” of infancy and early childhood for the “reality principle” that governs the more mature mind.

Beale seems to be driven not only by a desire for instant sexual gratification, whenever and wherever he wants, but also by a certain degree of sexual insecurity. In a previous post on the subject, he wrote:

If a woman believes in the concept of marital rape, absolutely do not marry her! It would make no sense whatsoever to marry a woman who believes that being married to her grants her husband no more sexual privilege than the next unemployed musician who happens to catch her eye.

Beale seems to think that if married women are allowed to say no to their husbands, they’ll desert these poor beta schlubs en masse in favor of scruffy alphas with guitars. At the root of all his arguments against the idea of marital rape is an obvious terror of unrestricted female choice.

In a way Beale’s petulant, self-serving defenses of marital rape serve a positive function, in that they help to remind us how abhorrent the practice is and how nonsensical the “arguments” in favor of allowing it really are.

Every time he opens his mouth on the subject, he helps to strengthen the growing consensus against marital rape.

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Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@anand

if talking to you is like talking to a brick wall, why are you even here? You won’t convince us, we won’t convince you, ect ect. So go away.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

Well said Ally.

Anyone in any marginalized group* has the right to get angry about it.

Anand, are you aware that people have been telling feminists from the very start that they are too angry? That has always been used as a silencing tactic. Playing nice doesn’t help. If you play nice, you don’t get heard. The notion that we’ll win over misogynists if we stop swearing is complete bullshit.

* No men are not a marginalized group. Many men are part of a marginalized group but no one is marginalized for being a man.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@anand

fair enough

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

But if he doesn’t wank here then nobody will talk to him at all.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

I dont want to convince anyone of anything

False. You’re tone trolling.

You wont convince me that all mras are misogynists

That’s like “you won’t convince me that the sun sets in the west.”
The MRM is a hate group and you’re defending them. That’s why you are being mocked. Since we can’t convince you that misogynists are the misogynists, what do we have to lose by mocking you? Why on earth should we be nice to you?

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

The blockquote mammoth needed a second meal? Geez.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

You won’t convince me that the KKK are racists! I mean, hey, some people just like wearing sheets as hats, OK? I like to see both sides of the issue.

Anand
Anand
10 years ago

@Wierdwoodtiger, because being nice is a basic human trait and niceness, politeness etc are things we show even to people we disagree with. Atleast thats how i was raised.

Im not tone policing. Just a general opinion about how you present your views. If you think my opinion is not worth listening to, then you can ignore it.

Peace.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@anand

saying you aren’t tone policing doesn’t make it so.

Also, no. Giving everyone the same rights is something you should do to people you disagree with. Holding their hand and being polite to them, not so much.

And if you think that we should be polite to someone who hates us, you’re a piece of shit.

You shouldn’t hurt mra’s or send them death threats, or try to deny them the right to vote, or incite violence against them.*

*aka thinks mra’s do to women.

Telling them to fuck off: totally okay.

If you think those things are remotely the same, fuck off and never speak to me again.

Anand
Anand
10 years ago

Fu*king off… Peace. 😉

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Remember, you have to STAY fucked off for it to count. No coming back.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

Boring troll. Boring flounce.

2/10

drst
drst
10 years ago

Pretty sure all feminists as well as all rational people deny misandry since it doesn’t actually exist.

cupisnique
10 years ago

Well, I deny that misandry is a systematic thing, if that’s what trollboy means when he says ‘denying misandry’.

Oh yeah, definitely with you on that! I am having trouble keeping up with this thread (I haven’t read pretty much any of it, so bare with me, I will get to it soon!). I am sure there are people that hate men or whatever, but yeah feminists in general are not misandrists and it’s definitely not a systemic, societal problem.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

wow. Totally feel like shit after talk with dad

does anyone know where the current personal thread is? Or I could vent here, but that’d kinda be derail-y. Just need some advice/ reassurance on the case of the douchenozzled dad.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

Marie, I don’t think there was an open thread this month so you’d have to go back to April’s. I don’t think anyone would mind talking about it here though. Whatever you have to say will be a big improvement over anything Gary and Anand said.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@weirdwoodtreehugger

tahnks. I’ll probably wait and see if anyone object for a tiny before venting.

haha, here would work though. Gary and anand already lowered the standard of conversation for me XD

kittehserf
10 years ago

Marie, im not defending anyone. I just dont like people it when people use offensive language. But forget it.

Then fuck off and hang around a different site. You don’t get to control the way we write here, you stupid little turd.

kittehserf
10 years ago

BTW everyone, I recognize Anand. Can’t remember what thread he is from but he tried to sell the notion that reasonable MRAs exist before. To nobody’s shock, he didn’t provide citations there either.

Yep, he was here a couple of weeks ago as Anand Jain, making the same witless lying claims. He’s yet another of the mealy-mouthed variety of misogynist troll.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

okay, so begging for advice time?

(Sorry if you guys didn’t want this, no one posted no, so I couldn’t tell) NEway, just ignore if you don’t want to see me whine.

I kinda am burning the bridge between me and my dad, and I need to figure shit out.

Basically, I’m officially out of my stepmom’s life, besides for babysitting (though she hasn’t asked me to, so I may be out of that, too) because of how misogynistic/ homophobic/ slut shaming she is. Things have been strained with my dad since, and we finally got around to talking (like a month after I actually wanted to)

Basically I wanted him to stand up for me more, and actually call her out on her shit, and he kept dodging with ‘well I’m not very confrontational’ and shit. We talked around each other for almost an hour, when he eventually snapped at me for being ‘too confrontational’ and stormed out of the room.

idk if I’m being unfair? But I don’t actually think it’s that unreasonable for me to want him to talk to his wife when she can’t treat me like a human being ^-^

anyway, I was just curious what you guys thought, since talking here is usually very helpful :3

sparky
sparky
10 years ago

Unrestricted female choice, is that what it’s called by feminists?
I usually call it cheating. Same for a man.(In a marraige or a commited relationship)

Illegalizing marital rape is “unrestricted female choice,” which is infidelity. Is this what Anand was trying to say? That’s fucked up.

How does one to about restricting “female choice” when it comes to sexual/romantic relationships? Why does “unrestricted female choice” equal “cheating?”

And, is this saying that marital rape shouldn’t be illegal to prevent women from cheating? That’s beyond fucked up.

This might have been just a really stupid non-sequitur from someone who didn’t read the OP at all, but plopping this statement in the comments of this particular post is just … Ew. It’s just setting off all my “awful shit” sensors.

katz
10 years ago

The rating of the judge from Westeros stands, but I would have given that flounce a relatively high score. The unnecessarily censored “fuck,” followed immediately by the incongruous “peace,” the creepy use of the winking smiley: That’s a lot of strange packed into one short space.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@katz

oh, he censored fuck? and I didn’t even notice XD

pro tip, anand: I think the censor in fuck would look better as the u. Like F*ck. Or, even better, f**k.

Or you could have said, f-wording off.

I could have fun with this.

kittehserf
10 years ago

Marie, you are absolutely not being unfair. You’ve been trying to get this through to your dad for a while, iirc, and he’s just … well, wimped out (sorry, that’s how it reads to me). So go you, I think a bit of bridge-burning, or at least “this bridge is closed for repairs” time is well in order. If he rethinks, good: if not, well, you’re better without that toxic brew.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@kittehs

thanks. It’s just, I’ve been stewing in this for a while and couldn’t tell how I was being.

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