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Vox Day: "The concept of marital rape is not merely an oxymoron, it is an attack on the institution of marriage, on the concept of objective law, and indeed, on the core foundation of human civilization itself."

Anti-rape protest in India
Anti-rape protest in India

Apparently worried that the world might forget what a thoroughly reprehensible human being he is, fantasy author and freelance bigot Vox Day (Theodore Beale) has decided to bring up the issue of marital rape again – in order to assert, as he has many times in the past, that marital rape doesn’t actually exist.

In a post yesterday on his blog Vox Populi, Beale notes with obvious pleasure that an Indian judge recently ruled that marital sex, “even if forcible, is not rape,” thus upholding a section of the Indian Penal Code that refuses to acknowledge marital rape as rape.

Beale crows:

Some of my dimmer critics have attempted to make a meal out of my factual statement: a man cannot rape his wife. But that is not only a fact, it is the explicit law in the greater part of the world, just as it is part of the English Common Law. …

The fact that some of the lawless governments in the decadent, demographically dying West presently call some forms of sex between a husband and wife “rape” does not transform marital sex into rape any more than a law that declared all vaginal intercourse to be rape would make it so.

Unfortunately for Beale, simply declaring that the world is on his side on this one does not make it so. It not simply a handful of “ lawless governments in the decadent, demographically dying West” that see marital rape for what it is. The United Nations has recognized marital rape as a human rights violation for more than two decades. And the world is coming around to this point of view.

While (as of 2011) only 52 countries had laws specifically criminalizing marital rape, many others don’t have a “marital rape” exemption to their rape laws, meaning that in more than 100 countries marital rape can be prosecuted. And that number will inevitably grow.

Here’s a map from Wikipedia showing the countries (in red) in which marital rape is illegal. The countries in black allow marital rape. In the other countries, it’s a bit more complicated. (See here for the details.)

From Wikipedia.
From Wikipedia.

But for now, at least, Beale is happy for another chance to explain the toxic “logic” behind his assertion that “marital rape” is impossible.

Anyone with a basic grasp of logic who thinks about the subject of “marital rape” for more than ten seconds will quickly realize that marriage grants consent on an ongoing basis. This has to be the case, otherwise every time one partner wakes the other up in an intimate manner or has sex with an inebriated spouse, rape has been committed.

Now, by Beale’s logic, a husband is entitled to force his wife to have sex over her screaming objections. Since “consent is ongoing,” in Beale’s version of marriage, a woman could say no or even fight back against her husband’s advances, but none of this would count as non-consent because once a woman is married there is no such thing.

But of course Beale doesn’t want to have to defend what is obviously – at least to anyone with any humanity – violent rape. So he tries instead to restrict the debate to the seemingly innocuous practice of “wake-up sex.” After all, what guy doesn’t want to be woken up with a blow job?

But even this example isn’t as persuasive as he thinks it is. Some people like to be woken up in an “intimate manner,” at least some of the time; some don’t, and you don’t get to override their desire not to be sexually manhandled in their sleep just because you’re married to them. And while drunk sex is not necessarily rape, marriage doesn’t give you the right to force sex on a partner who is intoxicated to the point of incapacity.

And for those who wish to argue that consent can be withdrawn, there is a word for withdrawing consent in a marriage. That word is “divorce”.

No, that word is “no.” There is no such thing as ongoing consent to sex. The fact that you are married to someone doesn’t give you the right to have sex with them whenever and wherever you want, whether they want to or not, any more than the fact that someone is a professional boxer gives you the right to punch them in the head any time you feel like it.

The concept of marital rape is not merely an oxymoron, it is an attack on the institution of marriage, on the concept of objective law, and indeed, on the core foundation of human civilization itself.

No, Mr. Beale, you having the right to do whatever you want to with your dick is not the basis of civilization itself. Civilization, in fact, is built in part on the repression of some of our darkest desires. Part of growing up is reconciling ourselves to the sad fact that we can’t just do whatever the hell we want to all the time; Freud described this as putting behind the “pleasure principle” of infancy and early childhood for the “reality principle” that governs the more mature mind.

Beale seems to be driven not only by a desire for instant sexual gratification, whenever and wherever he wants, but also by a certain degree of sexual insecurity. In a previous post on the subject, he wrote:

If a woman believes in the concept of marital rape, absolutely do not marry her! It would make no sense whatsoever to marry a woman who believes that being married to her grants her husband no more sexual privilege than the next unemployed musician who happens to catch her eye.

Beale seems to think that if married women are allowed to say no to their husbands, they’ll desert these poor beta schlubs en masse in favor of scruffy alphas with guitars. At the root of all his arguments against the idea of marital rape is an obvious terror of unrestricted female choice.

In a way Beale’s petulant, self-serving defenses of marital rape serve a positive function, in that they help to remind us how abhorrent the practice is and how nonsensical the “arguments” in favor of allowing it really are.

Every time he opens his mouth on the subject, he helps to strengthen the growing consensus against marital rape.

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cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Anand is about to go over to AVFM and tell them to tone down the insulting language they use towards women too, right?

Oh look, some crickets.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

Okey dokey, lets take this wall o text from the beginning.

I agree with the entire article about consent and why its nessasary.

But your first comment was whining about the phrasing in it.

I explicitly said that im not defending that guy with his daughter at the beginning.

Nope, your first comment toward Gary was about how we were acting like ‘schoolyard bullies’ for cussing out his truly atrocious actions.

I just wanted to drop in a small suggestion that the language is a bit offensive and it would be cool if it were toned down.

AKA your whole shtick here was about how we’re so rude with our language. ‘small suggestion’ my ass.

But that’s just my opinion. Different people have different opinions and i respect your’s when it comes to feminism.

And it being just your opinion doesn’t make it a good thing. I know someone like that. My stepmom. Everytime she opens her mouth and says shit, and people point out she’s being misogynistic/homophobic/ect she goes ‘everyone has their own opinion, there’s no right or wrong’ but that’s not true. everyone does have their own opinon, but that doesn’t mean one isnt’ right and one isn’t wrong, and when you voice their opinions and they hurt people, it’s still fucking bad

ts a basic human right to agree and disagree with different things on an individual level.

are we going to get into ‘waah you’re oppressing my freedom of speech’??

because two things

1) I’m not the govt.

and 2) you voiced your opinion. We’re voicing ours. If you can’t stand the backlash, that’s your problem.

People have a right to be or not be feminists and have personal opinions about different things including feminism. I just think that a little less aggression would be cool and even that’s just a personal opinion.

And nobody’s saying you can have your opinions. We’re just critiquing them. Because we’re aloud to do that.

-feminist who’s tired of your shit.

ps: You do know people can look back on your posts and read what you said earlier, right? Pulling that ‘I wasn’t defending Gary’ shit doesn’t work when we can go back a page and see where you were straight out sucking up to him.

Anand
Anand
10 years ago

Mary s, you’re right. You have been insulting me the entire time. I just didnt feel it nessasary to respond to that. -_-

Ally s seemed rational and so i responded.

cassandrakitty, i guess im not much into swearing so i wouldnt know.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

Also, anand, plenty of us have been used to trying to be shut down because we’re women and we aren’t polite enough, so your shtick is old.

We’ve heard it all before.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@anand

my name is marie not mary s wtf. If your trying to change my name to insult it, don’t do it so it’s more like Ally’s cuz nobody would be sad about being associate with Ally cuz she’s awesome.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Aw, look, he thinks being disingenuous will convince people that he’s right. Lookit the cute little baby troll, everyone. Don’t pet it though, its skin is toxic.

Ally S
10 years ago

The thing about most men is that they are a lot less aware of what upsets women in general. Men can walk away from an argument about marital rape calmly and confidently (even allies who oppose rape) because they are for the most part insulated by the threat of marital rape. Women, by contrast, lack that privilege. A woman arguing against marital rape is literally defending her right to have her bodily agency respected. The discourse is biased against us and THAT is why these arguments are so upsetting to many of us. It gets even more intolerable when combined with the privileged, dispassionate attitude of countless men involved in such arguments.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

I’m expecting you to report back on your efforts to get Gary to tone down his aggressive language, btw, Anand. Hop to it. You can start with his videos.

Anand
Anand
10 years ago

Marie, read my response to david futerelle. -_-

Anand
Anand
10 years ago

Mary, im sorry. The name was a typo.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

What, not moving on to helping Gary to be less hostile yet? Tsk tsk, some people are so lazy.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@Anand

I did read your response to David. You just don’t come off the way you think you do.

Anand
Anand
10 years ago

Marie*, stupid autocorrect.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

BTW everyone, I recognize Anand. Can’t remember what thread he is from but he tried to sell the notion that reasonable MRAs exist before. To nobody’s shock, he didn’t provide citations there either.

Anand, the MRM is based on misogyny. It’s a verifiable fact. There has never been one MRA that has proven reasonable. Not one.

Nobody has ever won the find the reasonable MRA challenge. Nobody ever will.

Unrestricted female choice

The alternative being what? How do you restrict someone from cheating? Are you one of those people who think women shouldn’t be allowed out without a male chaperone?

On your tone trolling: This is a mockery site. It says that right at the top of the page. We aren’t here to try to win anyone over. We mock misogynists and we mock those who stick up for misogynists. Don’t like it? Fuck off!

Ally S
10 years ago

“my name is marie not mary s wtf. If your trying to change my name to insult it, don’t do it so it’s more like Ally’s cuz nobody would be sad about being associate with Ally cuz she’s awesome.”

Lol, that’s too kind. =P

(my phone doesn’t allow me to type HTML tags so no blockquotes sadly)

Anand
Anand
10 years ago

@cassandrakitty and marie, my first comment was an immediate reaction to the responses to his comments. He did not use
Offensive lanuguage in his posts, atleast the recent ones i just read. MRAs are also guilty of saying a lot of offensive things and arguing with them about language is as good as talking to a wall. Well it didnt do a lot of good here either. Lol. A reason why i dont associate with labels.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Oh, wait, so you mean that the way you approach feminists versus MRAs isn’t actually equal at all? Huh, who would have though it.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Thought. Anand’s horrible typing skills seem to be contagious.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Anand’s a sock, right? The stink is rolling off them.

Im not an MRA nor a feminist. The articles that i quote may or may not be offensive and to varying degrees to different people based on their defenition of misogyny. Lets not go there. (hint:a lot of feminists deny misandry while some accept its existance and that too varies with different defenitions of misandry from different people.)

So you’re just an idiot who can’t tell from misogyny? OK.

There’s no such thing as misandry, cupcake.

Now fuck off.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

Has anyone who’s not a straight white cis abled dude ever said “I don’t associate with labels”?

Not that I know trollboy is, but it seems like that kind of thing. When you’re portrayed as normal by society, you don’t feel the need to label yourself, because you’re just a ‘human being’ or whatever.

Idk if my reaction is normal to this? It’s just yet another off thing about anand.

Anand
Anand
10 years ago

Weirwoodtreehugger, I dont want to convince anyone of anything. Lets leave it at that. You wont convince me that all mras are misogynists and mras wont convince me that all feminists are evil. I do come here often as a passive reader. So i might have commented sometime in the past. Lol.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Marie: “I don’t do labels” is pretty much the exclusive preserve of those who don’t have to think about what labels mean.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Andand: I think you’re banned sock. Go away, little tone troll.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Has anyone who’s not a straight white cis abled dude ever said “I don’t associate with labels”?

No, because labels are socially assigned. Guess who gets to assign them in America/Europe?

Anand
Anand
10 years ago

Marie, im a brown south asian. Not that it matters though.

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