Categories
alpha males antifeminism boner rage doubling down empathy deficit entitled babies evil sexy ladies evil wives marital rape men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny patriarchy playing the victim rape rape culture reactionary bullshit red pill vox day

Vox Day: "The concept of marital rape is not merely an oxymoron, it is an attack on the institution of marriage, on the concept of objective law, and indeed, on the core foundation of human civilization itself."

Anti-rape protest in India
Anti-rape protest in India

Apparently worried that the world might forget what a thoroughly reprehensible human being he is, fantasy author and freelance bigot Vox Day (Theodore Beale) has decided to bring up the issue of marital rape again – in order to assert, as he has many times in the past, that marital rape doesn’t actually exist.

In a post yesterday on his blog Vox Populi, Beale notes with obvious pleasure that an Indian judge recently ruled that marital sex, “even if forcible, is not rape,” thus upholding a section of the Indian Penal Code that refuses to acknowledge marital rape as rape.

Beale crows:

Some of my dimmer critics have attempted to make a meal out of my factual statement: a man cannot rape his wife. But that is not only a fact, it is the explicit law in the greater part of the world, just as it is part of the English Common Law. …

The fact that some of the lawless governments in the decadent, demographically dying West presently call some forms of sex between a husband and wife “rape” does not transform marital sex into rape any more than a law that declared all vaginal intercourse to be rape would make it so.

Unfortunately for Beale, simply declaring that the world is on his side on this one does not make it so. It not simply a handful of “ lawless governments in the decadent, demographically dying West” that see marital rape for what it is. The United Nations has recognized marital rape as a human rights violation for more than two decades. And the world is coming around to this point of view.

While (as of 2011) only 52 countries had laws specifically criminalizing marital rape, many others don’t have a “marital rape” exemption to their rape laws, meaning that in more than 100 countries marital rape can be prosecuted. And that number will inevitably grow.

Here’s a map from Wikipedia showing the countries (in red) in which marital rape is illegal. The countries in black allow marital rape. In the other countries, it’s a bit more complicated. (See here for the details.)

From Wikipedia.
From Wikipedia.

But for now, at least, Beale is happy for another chance to explain the toxic “logic” behind his assertion that “marital rape” is impossible.

Anyone with a basic grasp of logic who thinks about the subject of “marital rape” for more than ten seconds will quickly realize that marriage grants consent on an ongoing basis. This has to be the case, otherwise every time one partner wakes the other up in an intimate manner or has sex with an inebriated spouse, rape has been committed.

Now, by Beale’s logic, a husband is entitled to force his wife to have sex over her screaming objections. Since “consent is ongoing,” in Beale’s version of marriage, a woman could say no or even fight back against her husband’s advances, but none of this would count as non-consent because once a woman is married there is no such thing.

But of course Beale doesn’t want to have to defend what is obviously – at least to anyone with any humanity – violent rape. So he tries instead to restrict the debate to the seemingly innocuous practice of “wake-up sex.” After all, what guy doesn’t want to be woken up with a blow job?

But even this example isn’t as persuasive as he thinks it is. Some people like to be woken up in an “intimate manner,” at least some of the time; some don’t, and you don’t get to override their desire not to be sexually manhandled in their sleep just because you’re married to them. And while drunk sex is not necessarily rape, marriage doesn’t give you the right to force sex on a partner who is intoxicated to the point of incapacity.

And for those who wish to argue that consent can be withdrawn, there is a word for withdrawing consent in a marriage. That word is “divorce”.

No, that word is “no.” There is no such thing as ongoing consent to sex. The fact that you are married to someone doesn’t give you the right to have sex with them whenever and wherever you want, whether they want to or not, any more than the fact that someone is a professional boxer gives you the right to punch them in the head any time you feel like it.

The concept of marital rape is not merely an oxymoron, it is an attack on the institution of marriage, on the concept of objective law, and indeed, on the core foundation of human civilization itself.

No, Mr. Beale, you having the right to do whatever you want to with your dick is not the basis of civilization itself. Civilization, in fact, is built in part on the repression of some of our darkest desires. Part of growing up is reconciling ourselves to the sad fact that we can’t just do whatever the hell we want to all the time; Freud described this as putting behind the “pleasure principle” of infancy and early childhood for the “reality principle” that governs the more mature mind.

Beale seems to be driven not only by a desire for instant sexual gratification, whenever and wherever he wants, but also by a certain degree of sexual insecurity. In a previous post on the subject, he wrote:

If a woman believes in the concept of marital rape, absolutely do not marry her! It would make no sense whatsoever to marry a woman who believes that being married to her grants her husband no more sexual privilege than the next unemployed musician who happens to catch her eye.

Beale seems to think that if married women are allowed to say no to their husbands, they’ll desert these poor beta schlubs en masse in favor of scruffy alphas with guitars. At the root of all his arguments against the idea of marital rape is an obvious terror of unrestricted female choice.

In a way Beale’s petulant, self-serving defenses of marital rape serve a positive function, in that they help to remind us how abhorrent the practice is and how nonsensical the “arguments” in favor of allowing it really are.

Every time he opens his mouth on the subject, he helps to strengthen the growing consensus against marital rape.

526 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Fade
10 years ago

i really, really hope that gary is telling the truth, and that his daughter did consent to the story being shared (and everything that “shared” came with, like on that horribad site, and w/ her full name) but i just still get such a sketchy feeling from him.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@Gary

Interesting how much importance you place on giving the child the right of consent.

Not really, seeing as how I was denied consent when I was a child.

Do you think she was given that option, or gave consent when they did what they did to her?

The answer is no. It was just done, and it was done against my consent as well for her.

I don’t give a rats ass if it was done against your consent. My heart breaks for her if it was done against her consent, though. That’s one of the more terrifying things that can happen to a child.

And in either event, the child DID give consent to me to publish her story, several times.
She cried to me to help her and save her. I have that also well documented.

Then if that happened, good. Still not good that it’s under her real name, but much better than her not knowing (or saying) if you could share her story at all.

I hope for your daughter’s sake you aren’t lying.

@fade

seconded. every time I talk to him I feel like I need to bathe in bleach.

Robert
Robert
10 years ago

As a father of two sons on psychiatric medication, I wish Gary T. all the Legos, in a pile, covering his floor. You disgust me. I do not believe you, I have great sympathy for your daughter, and hope she recovers from the experience of having a father like you.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

BTW your language is atrocious.

Gary: fuck off, you festering boil on the ass of humanity. I really don’t need or want to hear your sniveling bullshit justifications for plastering your daughter’s info on AVfM, OF ALL THE GODDAMN PLACES ON THE INTERNET YOU COULD CHOOSE.

I mean, seriously? What the fuck is wrong with you?

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@hellkell

Yup. Even if Gary is telling the truth about his daughter being okay with him sharing her story (which I so hope he is) sharing it on a hate site is totally not okay.

cloudiah
10 years ago

Gary really doesn’t understand that, even assuming everything else he’s saying is correct, he could have publicized the situation without using his daughter’s real name, thus exposing her to a lifetime of having her medical history/mental health diagnosis available on the internet for anyone to Google.

I watched his videos at the time they were posted on AVfM. They were full of parenting fail. And the AVfM comments were totally predictable: insults against the personal appearance of the CPS worker for not being pleasing to their boners, along with veiled threats.

And Gary? It’s not “polite” to defend marital rape or use your own child as a political pawn, no matter what language you use. Since we aren’t woman-hating sycophants like the commentariat at AVfM, you should get used to being called out on your terrible opinions and behavior.

cloudiah
10 years ago

And I don’t think Gary had his daughter’s permission to share her story AND her name on the internet; I think he is merely interpreting her request that he “help her” as meaning “go ahead and do whatever you want.” In any case, she is a very young child, too young to understand the consequences of linking her real name and her medical history online — exactly the kind of thing a responsible parent should be thinking of.

Again, even if everyone else involved in this sad story is just as terrible as Gary paints them, HE IS EXACTLY AS BAD AS THEY ARE.

Fade
10 years ago

I think he is merely interpreting her request that he “help her” as meaning “go ahead and do whatever you want.”

mm, given how he’s spoken before, it seems like this is probably true.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@Cloudiah

blah. Didn’t consider him interrupting her ‘help me’ as whatever he wants 🙁

cloudiah
10 years ago

Admittedly, my opinion of Gary is informed not just by the terrible things he’s said here but also by the terrible things he said on his videos. But really, even if your very young child gives you explicit permission to share her personal information on the internet, isn’t one of the responsibilities of being a parent looking out for your kids when they don’t fully understand the consequences of their actions? I believe in giving kids as much agency as possible, but that doesn’t mean letting them do everything they want to do.

Hugs for everyone (except Gary) who’s negatively affected by this thread. It’s a bad one.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

Assuming all of Gary’s tale of woe is true, I don’t know what he expected other than having rank misogynists commiserate with him. It’s not like AVfM helps anyone.

It would be like looking for tips on veganism at a site for steak cookery.

cloudiah
10 years ago

It’s not like AVfM helps anyone.

Bite your tongue! Multiple commenters offered to assault the “fat b*tch” (CPS worker) for him, as I recall — though I might be confusing some of that with the YouTube commenters.

Robert
Robert
10 years ago

Cloudiah – you know a site is appalling when it’s hard to tell the commenters from YouTube commenters.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Give it up, Gary. Everyone here can see right through the web of obfuscating bullshit that you’re attempting to weave. Everything that you say you’re trying to do can be done without revealing your daughter’s personal information, and now that you’ve put that information out there it will follow her for the rest of her life every time someone looks her up by name. If you care about her at all you’ll take down everything that you’ve posted about her by name and never name her on the internet again in the future.

You won’t get any sympathy here for your attempt to feed both your ex and your child to the wolves, so you may as well stop trying.

Anand
Anand
10 years ago

Unrestricted female choice, is that what it’s called by feminists?
I usually call it cheating. Same for a man.(In a marraige or a commited relationship)

cloudiah
10 years ago

Anand, wtf are you talking about?

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

aww, we got a troll! And they’re trying so hard.

..or not hard enough. I can’t tell.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Non sequiturs are what passes for argument among trolls these days, apparently.

Anand
Anand
10 years ago

@Gary T
I dont know your situation but its clear that these people here are like schoolyard bullies. Most people grow out of that phase but these psuedo-feminists surely didnt. I hate to call them feminists because i know wonderful pleasant feminists in real life with whom i can have meaningful conversations without the use of offensive language even though i disagree a lot with them.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

Cat anger consequences, is that what the furrinati are calling it these days????

More like misailury!

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@anand

Aww, he’s sucking up to the older troll. That’s so cute!

Anand, Gary is in moderation because he can’t be trusted not to post personal, revealing information about his daughter here, so you might be waiting a while.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
10 years ago

Aw, I love it when they start talking to each other. Unless they’re socks, then it’s just like “you, sir, are a genius”, “and you too, my fine fellow”.

Robert
Robert
10 years ago

And Anand is, once again, in a different conversation from everyone else.

Or should that be “different than”?

Zombie Marie
Zombie Marie
10 years ago

@cassandra

I don’t know about you, but I think the not-zombie marie poster is quite a genius, and that her troll-pokings are always on top 😉

I should apologize. I had too much caffeine today.

cloudiah
10 years ago

Funny that no one here except the feminists actually cares about Gary’s daughter.

No wait, that’s not funny; that’s just sad.

1 12 13 14 15 16 22