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Expat PUA blogger: "24 is super crazy, crazy old. for a girl. 17. 19. past that, if we’re going to get all about babies, is pretty sketchy."

I couldn't come up with a good graphic for this post, so here's a giant chicken kidnapping a young boy.
I couldn’t come up with a good graphic for this post, so here’s a giant chicken kidnapping a young boy.

Jakeface — not his real name — is a “Game” blogger, pushing 40, and living in Vietnam. Or visiting there? I haven’t read enough of his blog to be able to figure that out. Given that the name of his blog is “cedonulli,” which seems to be a pretentious reference to the Latin phrase “cedo nulli” ( “I yield to none”), I probably won’t be reading all that much more.

But I do know he likes Vietnam, because he’s the sort of guy who enjoys joking about having sex with “girls … so barely legal … it’s not even funny,” and in Vietnam, he says, he’s not the only one who thinks that 24-year old women are “old as fuck.”

Did I mention he’s pushing 40 himself?

Anyway, not long ago, Jakeface offered readers of his blog his deep thoughts on the subject of age, and why women over the age of 19 are already starting to look elderly to him. [Link is mildly NSFW]

He starts off by noting sadly that even in Vietnam, he still runs into Western women in their 30s who for some strange reason think they aren’t old hags.

even nice western girls are under the influence of western default cultural context.  so many ridiculously illogical retarded things leave their mouths, that you can’t help but praise the heavens that you found a cultural base that still has a concept of sustainable biological imperatives.

“i’m 35 now, i’ve got my education and my career, i’m ready to settle down and have babies.  why can’t i find a good man?”

it’s so hard to be jake, sometimes.

Jake apparently hasn’t found the shift key on his keyboard yet.

But he can’t blame these Western gals, he says, for being “indoctrinated by western culture,” and “so it would be unfair, short sighted, dumb to make fun of miss-35 for waiting till after the closing bell to place her bid.”

Well, just so long as Miss 35 doesn’t try to get her wrinkled claws into him:

when the same miss-35 makes some eyeballs your way though, and says “i think you’re attractive”, then things get a bit creepier.

Dude, if you’re going to write fiction, at least try to make the dialogue sound vaguely realistic.

Anyway, Jake informs us that this eyeball-making elderly lady of 35 with the world’s least creative pickup line is

like the homeless man wandering into the bentley dealer, making moves to go sit in the new continental gt. a clear case of a completely non-reality based self image.  a delusion, painful to those who may have to be part of a conflicting reality.  i totally get how 19 year old girls must feel, when the 65 year old liver-spotted shaking hands of the australian tourist reach for her thigh.

Yes, that’s right: when a 35-year-old woman hits on a man her age or even slightly older, she is like a 65-year-old man pawing the thighs of a 19-year-old girl.

That’s PUA math for you.

Actually, that’s the math that PUAs try to sell to their readers, and to themselves.

In reality the math that really counts for Western expats like Jakeface has to do with exploiting their relative wealth in countries where a sufficient number of women are poor enough that putting up with a PUA and his bullshit isn’t the worst option they have. In Vietnam, per capita income is a little over $1,100 (American). Per capita income in the US? About $43,000. That’s the real expat PUA math.

Anyway, Jakeface continues with his rant:

24 is super crazy, crazy old.  for a girl.

17. 19. past that, if we’re going to get all about babies, is pretty sketchy.

Yeah, he really said that. Does he even believe it? Who knows? The average age for first births in the United States is 26; in the UK, it’s 30. The risks of pregnancy and giving birth over the age of 35 have been greatly exaggerated, and the vast majority of babies born to women later in life are perfectly healthy. Even if he doesn’t know any women his age who’ve had children,you might think he would have noticed the small army of female celebrities in their forties who’ve been popping out babies without either them or the babies exploding.

But Jakeface isn’t basing his conclusions here on a close reading of the medical literature, or even People magazine. Nope, as he makes clear, his opinions are coming straight from his dick and his “barely legal” obsessed brain.

who cares about what which culture says about it.  that’s what my brain, freed from all the media propaganda, is finding attractive.  at 24, you can already start to imagine what she’ll look like in 10 years.  the outlines are set.  the fantasy of youth eternal is already shattered.

24 is old-holy-fuck-you’re-countess-dracula, tell me about how life was in the 16th century.

Again, Jakeface by his own admission is almost 40.

in vietnam, that sort of age awareness seems to be the consensus, still.  which makes vietnam ok in my book.  it makes me think about applying for vietnamese citizenship.  i want to be part of a culture that shares my innate values.  a 35 year old vietnamese woman wouldn’t go “heeeey, soooo, how about some babies?”  it’d be considered unfathomably rude, suggesting that my value wouldn’t allow me the choice of a 19 year old instead, that my fridge is only good for milk a solid week and a half past its expiration date.

Dude, you only have this “value” in countries where a good portion of the women don’t have good options. And you know it. That’s why you’re in a country with a per capita income that is literally 1/38th that of the United States.

and this isn’t personal, as in if you read this and you’re a 35 year old woman, i’m not making fun.  i’m only talking about biological reality, and my own mating preferences.  which also, mating preferences of any man with the option, and in his right mind.

Really? George Clooney, formerly the world’s most eligible bachelor, just got engaged to a 36-year-old.

it could still happen.  jake might have some asian babies with a few 24 year old girls.  there are two current contenders, which i’m hoping to replace with some 17 year olds, before some heat-of-the-moment questionable decisions.

it’s hard to take a step back, when you’re in the pet shop, surrounded by puppies.

For the sake of all that is good in this world, dude, do not breed. Do not saddle some poor Vietnamese teenager with your spawn.

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kittehserf
6 years ago

Oh, this is my favourite Big Hair pic for the Renaissance – even allowing for a heap of artistic license, I’m thinking there was a very busy wig-maker in that town. 🙂

http://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/ep/web-large/DT226950.jpg

kittehserf
6 years ago

OT: just read a page on 15th century Romanian fashion and saw the best mistranslation/typo – “Vlad the Impeller.”

kittehserf
6 years ago

Okayl, I really hope Prince Dimitrie is only portrayed like this and didn’t actually try combining a periwig with a turban.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dimitrie_Cantemir_02.jpg

dustedeste
dustedeste
6 years ago

Oh dear! That really is beyond the pale.

Also now I really want one of those wigs. Going to have to look into that…

kittehserf
6 years ago

Imagine trying to balance a periwig AND a turban! Not a good idea at all.

Zolnier
Zolnier
6 years ago

Thinking about the woman you’re dating in terms of reproductive viability is already unforgivably skeezy, unless maybe you’re from Krypton or something. But these people aren’t even right about younger mothers in a stupid biotruth sense. In most parts of the world since we stopped living in caves most mothers have been in their twenties when they first give birth.

The thing about teenage mothers is that while yes their eggs will be younger than that of a woman ten years older than them, their bodies likely will be less suitable at that point in their lives to carry the baby safely, especially if they’re just in their mid teens. People aren’t really done physically developing until they’re in their twenties.

Historically really young mums were commonly restricted to the aristocracy, where bloodline and other such bullshit were held above practicality and safety. And even there they usually waited till the girls were a certain age. The average age of marriage for peasants, the people actually doing the work, was about twenty eight, same as now. Because magical fresh eggs aren’t really worth the complications.

And that’s just the bare biological reasons. Pick up artists sex tourists, even medieval times is too smart for them.

Oh and since Fay was mentioned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU95v23MQ4c

dustedeste
dustedeste
6 years ago

I mean, a turban can be quite easy to manage (one of my friends wears one and seems to have no trouble), but on top of a wig? I think not! It’d just wobble around and fall off; such lofty heights were not meant to be attained by mere men!

kittehserf
6 years ago

dustydeste – just what I was thinking, ‘cos that thing isn’t being worn around his head, it’s just perching there!

Zolnier –

Thinking about the woman you’re dating in terms of reproductive viability is already unforgivably skeezy, unless maybe you’re from Krypton or something.

Now I’m wondering if the Red Pill is like red Kryptonite. It seems to have at least as bizarre an effect.

Zolnier
Zolnier
6 years ago

I think the only way I could pity Lana Lang on Smallvile is if red Kryptonite did that to Clark.

Isabelle
Isabelle
6 years ago

Nuke Dillon: “I’m afraid your understanding of the biology is a bit wrong. What gives adolescent girls their high mate value isn’t their supposedly high current fertility but rather their FUTURE fertility. An adolescent virgin still has the whole of her reproductive lifespan ahead of her and is capable of giving a man more offspring than an older women who has used up some of her breeding years.”

I am afraid you really don’t have a clue about either biology or breeding. As an ex-farmer, I had to make very rational choices about breeding. First, ideally, you breed only to a mature female. Breeding too early risks damaging future performance and more complications at birth. You don’t breed as soon as the female can be bred, you wait until its safe to do it. So you don’t put your young females around males until they are ready. What’s the point? Unless you wanna run into exactly what you don’t want, an unwanted pregnancy. It happened to me once with an heifer and it was a lot of worries. Also, a more mature animal is usually better at providing care to her offspring and that is as important than actually giving birth. Most baby animals need an extensive period of nurturing, so the “inner” qualities and the experience of the female are important. A proven animal is also better, because you know that it can deliver. So talking strictly in term of breeding, an healthy 25-35 years old woman who has already given birth to healthy children and is a nurturing parent would be the prime breeding choice. There is no bonus point for virginity and immaturity. Secondly, the genetic value of the animal remain constant over the lifespan of the animal. Old ewe, young ewe, if she has the qualities you want and she is fertile, you will breed it. The thing I observed with the ideal breeding female, and that is anecdotal, is that she is generally choosy about what she will breed to. I had a 15 yo cow literally driving a young bull into the ground. She was an exceptional cow genetically and that is why she was still living past her peak production years. She was also an excellent mother. Unwanted mating is usually rejected brutally, as it should be. Yup, the male gotta wait until he gets a resounding yes. Live cover is always an hairy business for that reason. None of the BS about males preferring young girls makes any rational sense. Actually, its kind of disgusting because they obviously have no concern for the well being of the woman and the potential children.

One of the quality that I used to look for was temperament . In short, I never bred asshole males because I never wanted to deal with their asshole offsprings. Most farmers don’t breed assholes if they can help it because a 700 lbs asshole boar, or a 1200 lb asshole bull is not something you want to deal with in the barn. That would be my advice to men in general: you want your chance at being a spouse and a father, don’t be an asshole.

Zolnier
Zolnier
6 years ago

Well looking through this thread the points I made were already bought up. Just want to add that the famous exceptions to the “even royals waited a while” rule tended to only have one or two kids and often died painfully young.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Also, a more mature animal is usually better at providing care to her offspring and that is as important than actually giving birth.

There was a documentary called Kangaroos: Face in the Mob, about a particular group of kangaroos. The difference between two maternal lines’ success was very notable: one line learned to be very attentive to their young, and were very successful breeders: the other didn’t, and … well, the last joey, one focussed on in the program, died. (Yes it’s a spoiler but seeing little Jaffa die is terribly sad.)

The documentary is available on dvd or online, I believe. It was made in 1992 and won an Emmy award.

Zolnier
Zolnier
6 years ago

Also David, where did you find the post image?

sn0rkmaiden
6 years ago

Gosh, well given I was thirty eight when my son was born it’s a wonder he didn’t come out covered in cobwebs!

Nuclear Zimmerframe
Nuclear Zimmerframe
6 years ago

@ pecunium

I’m sorry you really don’t understand the biology. What good are a woman’s fertile years if they lie in her past where they can’t be accessed any more? The best place for them to be is in the present where they can be accessed right away or in the future where they can be accessed at a later date.

Let’s just think this through logically and dispassionately. Every society in the world including primitive tribes out in the jungle have the institution of marriage. It’s not just some cultural invention as many people believe but it seems to be in our biology to form long term relationships. Now let’s imagine two men in prehistoric times who marry different partners. Man A chooses a woman about 30 who’s half way through her reproductive lifespan and man B chooses a 14 year old virgin with the whole of her reproductive lifespan ahead of her (the best estimate of the typical age of a prehistoric girl’s first pregnancy is about 17).

Man B can be expected to get twice as many offspring from his wife than man A. Even if he doesn’t live all the way to her menopause he can still be expected to get at least a few more offspring than man A. Over time men who prefer 14 yr olds over 30 yr olds will come to dominate in the population because they leave behind more descendants.

By the simple and very reasonable assumption that most reproduction in prehistoric times happened within marriages, we can mathematically infer that a male preference for young virgin girls will be common. Many people may not like this conclusion but this is simply where the logic leads and we have an obligation to follow it.

Nuclear Zimmerframe
Nuclear Zimmerframe
6 years ago

@ Isabelle

It depends. Were you breeding for quality or quantity?

If you’re going for quality the best females to use are those in their reproductive prime who will suffer less complications etc.

If you’re going for quantity it’s a bit more complicated. The younger they start breeding the longer their reproductive lifespan which means they can produce more young. But obviously only to a point. If they start too young the birth complications will negate the advantages of a longer reproductive lifespan and result in fewer surviving offspring overall. Somewhere there will be a balance point at which the advantages of a longer reproductive lifespan will be balanced by the disadvantages of starting the breeding at a young age.

In the case of our species this balance point looks to be about 17 because this is roughly the typical age girls in modern hunter-gatherer societies have their first pregnancy. Girls who start reproducing about 17 leave behind the most surviving offspring and have therefore come to dominate in these societies.

Kim
Kim
6 years ago

Thanks for sharing that Isabelle. Was very interesting.

Kim
Kim
6 years ago

Actually, they’re probably gaiters. Spats being the purely decorative version and gaiters being practical. Gaiters are used in horseriding (though those are usually longer to protect the calf) but also to keep dirt out of your shoes and burrs off your socks. So they could be useful on a farm. A modern gaiter – http://hikinglady.com/the-gear/gaiters/

Alex
6 years ago

Why can’t he just admit he has a fetish for Asian children, and barely legal is the closest he can get?

kittehserf
6 years ago

Kim – gaiters are what I thought, too. They’re not very different from these German WWII ones.

http://www.caesarscoins.com/ba549-01.jpg

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
6 years ago

Nuclear, it doesn’t matter how many more kids a very young woman/ girl can potentially pop out if her ability to have. Healthy kids is compromised due to being too young/ not developed enough physically to handle a pregnancy. Lots of kids means nothing if those kids were to weak and sickly to survive to adulthood. You also realize that plenty of societies also prescribed spacing pregnancies out and having fewer children right? That many societies considered having a healthy mother more important than having a ton of children?

Also, can we NOT compare breeding cows to human pregnancy? And the part about not breeding assholes is particularly offensive to me as an abuse survivor. Abuse happens because an abuser likes to abuse, not because genes. And my daughter is not an asshole.

Hector_St_Clare
Hector_St_Clare
6 years ago

Re: The average age of marriage for peasants, the people actually doing the work, was about twenty eight

It was mid twenties for women in northern Europe, but still a bit younger than that in southern Europe. And younger for women than for men. Still not any lower than late teens though.

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
6 years ago

Nuclear, women in huntergatherer societies sometimes have earlier pregnancies, just like us. And just like us, those societies may not entirely approve because they understand the risks to mother and Child. Unlike us, many of those societies raise the children much more communally than we do, which helps to ensure survivability.

Skye
Skye
6 years ago

Trigger warnings: death, graphic

Look, NZ, the ‘complications’ you are so blithely dismissing include death for both mom and baby. Childbirth and pregnancy are not safe. In many places without advanced medical care, these are still leading causes of death for women and girls. In your scenario, if your 17 year old and her child both die, it doesn’t matter one flying fig how many potential hypothetical kids she could have had.
Also, you’re a disgusting ephibophile

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
6 years ago

Sky, according to recent reports, death to mother and child are the leading cause of death to young women ages 15 to 19 in the US. A country that restricts the advanced medical care to the small few who can afford it. Everyone else gets to sick it up.

historophilia
historophilia
6 years ago

I’m n-thing the point that most medieval people did not marry in their teens.

As lots of people have said, very early marriage was restricted to the great nobility and usually heiresses. And it wasn’t even true for all noble girls, they would still be married earlier than say peasant women, but it would be mid-teens rather than 11 or 12.

So for example. Princess Joan of England who died of the Plague while on her way to marry Peter of Castile, was about 15. She was a princess but not the heir to huge lands and a fortune so she married later than as a good example, Isabella of Angouleme who married King John of England at 12 and who was countess of Angouleme in her own right.

Heiresses were married very early so their lands could be attached to a suitable man (since they obviously could not run them themselves), but for noble women without an inheritance there was no need.

It is also true that very early marriages tended not to be consummated immediately. For all that we like to pretend that Medieval people were ignorant, violent brutes who didn’t know about the dangers of early pregnancy, they were very aware of it. Isabella didn’t have her first child until 7 years into her marriage to John, when she would have been about 19. And considering once she started having children boy did she ever pop them out, I think it’s unlikely that if the marriage had been consummated earlier that she wouldn’t also have had children earlier.

So yeah, people have always known that early pregnancy is bad for the mother.

Don’t try and twist history to excuse your modern day bigotry (I’m looking at you Game of Thrones fandom).

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

@NZ

Let’s just think this through logically and dispassionately.

Let’s not, given that you are illogical and you would be talking “dispassionately” about real people, you child-abuse enabling ass-wipe!

Every society in the world including primitive tribes out in the jungle have the institution of marriage.

Really? Citation needed!

It’s not just some cultural invention as many people believe but it seems to be in our biology to form long term relationships.

Citiation needed!

the best estimate of the typical age of a prehistoric girl’s first pregnancy is about 17 .

Citation needed!

Basically, you are blowing smoke out of your ass.

If you’re going for quality the best females to use are those in their reproductive prime who will suffer less complications etc. .

And

Somewhere there will be a balance point at which the advantages of a longer reproductive lifespan will be balanced by the disadvantages of starting the breeding at a young age.

The best females to use? Starting the breeding? OK, you need to fuck off until you can come back and talk about women and girls as if you understand that they are human beings.

PS You knwo that logic thing – if you want quantity you need quality. Now go stew in cats’ piss for a hundred years while you think about that.

Luzbelitx
6 years ago

Every society in the world including primitive tribes out in the jungle have the institution of marriage. It’s not just some cultural invention as many people believe but it seems to be in our biology to form long term relationships.

Biology: it doesn’t work like that.

historophilia
historophilia
6 years ago

To argue that it is “in our biology” to have long term monogamous relationships is unprovable leaving aside the fundamental confusion about how biology works.

The fact that a human child takes a very long time to raise to the point where it can survive on it’s own and that it is largely helpless, unable to walk or eat unaided for it’s first few years would suggest that for our early ancestors, long term monogamous partnerships would probably be the most successful for raising children. However to suggest this is somehow “hard-wired” in is daft.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

Plus even if that were the case, there is no logical link between “monogomous longterm relationship” and “starting when the woman was a girl of 14-17 years of age”.

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
6 years ago

You’d also have to overlook the long history of extended kinship and much more communal living of most peoples. Long term marriages are only one way of solving the issue of the long dependency of children. Mostly, marriage is an institution to restrict property rights in such a way as to deny most people from getting ahead.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Don’t try and twist history to excuse your modern day bigotry (I’m looking at you Game of Thrones fandom).

As a certified member of the ASIOF and GoT fandom I’d get defensive, but yeah. I’ve gotten into a lot of arguments with people who are trying to excuse terrible behavior and then playing it innocent with excuses like “but fiction!” and “this is Westeros, not modern times!” My favorite (sarcasm) argument is that Sansa should have been grateful to be married off to Tyrion because at least he didn’t rape her or beat her like some might have! Apparently it’s misandry and friendzoning to not be happy to be forced into marriage as a child to the uncle of the king who killed your father and the son of the lord who had your brother and mother killed.

The mods at Westeros.org have to delete posts and ban people for rape apologia all the time. Ugh.

pillowinhell
pillowinhell
6 years ago

Gotta love the nature arguments. Way to drive the standard of decent human behaviour into the ground.

It’s perfectly natural for humans to squat outdoors for a shit. Does NZ also recommend this? After all, baboons do it. Humans have done just that for so long it must have left us biologically hardwired to take a shit just any old place outside. So why aren’t we continuing this behaviour?

Pocket Nerd
6 years ago

Thus Spake ZaraCassandrakitty:
Does evo-psych rot the part of the brain responsible for logic or are people who hate logic just naturally drawn to evo-psych theories? Discuss.

I’m not enough of an expert to say it’s completely bollocks, but evolutionary psychology is a field notorious for perceptual bias, p-value fishing, lack of experimental rigor, and all the other scientific sins. It also plays to a lot of modern pop-culture misunderstandings about evolution. (For example, not every trait is specifically the result of selection; and there isn’t “a gene for” most things.) All these make evo-psych a marvelous field for “proving” what you already think is true, or want to be true, because it’s easy to rationalize almost any conclusion you want to support and then gild it with apparent scientific credibility. Those who disagree with you can be ignored and derided as obviously wrong and irrational.

If you think women are weak and stupid naturally subordinate, you can “discover” that’s exactly the case, because mumble mumble hunters mumble gatherers. If you want to feel okay about boinking women way younger than you are, gee whiz, it’s only natural because something something fertility. And hey, it’s not just for misogyny — it works for your nasty racist and classist beliefs too! All of your horrid, privileged little misconceptions about the world are validated because BIOTRUTHS. To a certain kind of person, that’s a very appealing notion.

ceebarks
ceebarks
6 years ago

Expats are so embarrassing sometimes.

I’m fascinated by the MRA/PUA obsession with fertility. Like most modern people, these guys generally do not want 10-15 kids, so what gives? It’s almost like they are warming over a plate of stale rationalization in an attempt to make their own sub-par life choices seem somewhat less slimy.

(Does the alt-right in general know that there are currently about 7 billion people roaming the planet? I get that they have some weird gender-role fetishism going on but I wish they could just enjoy it at home and stop trying to drag everyone else into it. It’s kind of gross. But maybe that’s part of the fun? Eish)

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I just have to point out that once again our evo psych troll is only focusing on the reproductive value of “females.” Young men have more fertile years ahead of them and are less likely to suffer erectile dysfunction. Yet for some strange unfathomable reason neither our troll or anyone else in the manosphere is making an argument that teenaged boys have the highest reproductive value and women of all ages should pursue them.

Since paleolithic cultures were communal and egalitarian the argument that women are hard wired to like older men because they’re good providers completely fails. Older men are good providers presently and recently. That doesn’t mean that was always true.

Let’s just think this through logically and dispassionately.

Why would we want to do that? Sex and love are neither of those things. You must be an insufferable bore. I’m very glad I don’t know you IRL.

ceebarks
ceebarks
6 years ago

Or hey, there’s also the recent spate of evidence suggesting that older fathers have a higher risk of having babies with schizophrenia and autism. Heaven forbid, men are mere mortals too.

While I was a pretty young mother myself I think the tendency of many modern societies to have kids later is actually pretty smart. It allows people the leisure to finish developing, choose a solid partner, BECOME a solid partner, build up some resources to help with the demanding job of childrearing (since you can’t count on extended family or the state to help out much, you need to have individual resources!).

In most cases people do manage to finish those tasks and bear as many kids as they actually want. Shrug. Even women who marry in their mid-30s usually have one, two, or three, and then voluntarily stop having babies long before they are actually out of fertility.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

Since paleolithic cultures were communal and egalitarian the argument that women are hard wired to like older men because they’re good providers completely fails. Older men are good providers presently and recently. That doesn’t mean that was always true.

Indeed. Surely younger men would be faster & stronger, making them better hunters and therefore better providers. Combined with their higher fertility, based on @NZ’s “arguments”, women of all ages should be hard wired to pursue 19 year-old boys. And obviously homosexuality is impossible. /rolls eyes.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

For example, not every trait is specifically the result of selection; and there isn’t “a gene for” most things.

Also a good point. What’s the evolutionary explanation for people who perceive cilantro as tasting like soap? They’re negatively impacted because cilantro is very delicious. Why didn’t that trait get selected out? Because random mutations happen all the time. If they don’t make a person unable to successfully reproduce, they will stick around for a while. Maybe they’ll fade out over time, maybe they’ll become more dominant.

Pocket Nerd
6 years ago

Thus Spake Zaraweirwoodtreehugger:

Also a good point. What’s the evolutionary explanation for people who perceive cilantro as tasting like soap? They’re negatively impacted because cilantro is very delicious. Why didn’t that trait get selected out? Because random mutations happen all the time. If they don’t make a person unable to successfully reproduce, they will stick around for a while. Maybe they’ll fade out over time, maybe they’ll become more dominant.

And clearly lactose intolerant people don’t exist. Because BIOTRUTH.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

Not to mention that with a few exceptions (the Inuit and other arctic peoples being one) gathering supplied the bulk of the diet in “hunter gatherer” peoples (is there a better term?), with hunting as a backup, and gathering is something humans often get better at with age, since it requires knowledge and experience and isn’t as physically taxing as hunting. So maybe the best provider a woman could get was her own mother 🙂

Not to mention the communal aspect of most traditionally hunter-gatherer cultures–I wonder if a woman even has to be sleeping with a man to get a bit of meat (can someone answer this for me?) If food sharing is more communal, then how is that going to be enforced? The nuclear family standing by itself is a very recent development–if she’s living with all her siblings and cousins, and a hand-working member of the group in her own right, then does she need a man? Except in the sense that straight and bi women like men, of course.

Skye
Skye
6 years ago

“according to recent reports, death to mother and child are the leading cause of death to young women ages 15 to 19 in the US. A country that restricts the advanced medical care to the small few who can afford it. Everyone else gets to sick it up.”

Pillowinhell, you’re right. I should not have left out countries like the US with restricted access to quality care. I’m afraid this particular problem will get worse in the US as sex-ed is reduced/rendered ineffective, birth control is restricted and abortions are restricted. 🙁

magnesium
magnesium
6 years ago

@Nuclear Zimmerframe

Dude, you got any sources on these just-so stories you’re calling “logical”? Let’s put on our critical thinking hats and look at the real information.

There is, in fact, at least one culture that does not practice marriage. The Na/Mosuo in China do not practice marriage, and breeding couples never live together. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosuo
On top of that, marriage around the world can be quite different. Some societies practice polygyny, some practice monogamy, some even polyandry. In some cultures, divorce was or still is illegal, while in others, “temporary marriages” are a thing.

Most marriages throughout history were arranged by parents, other family members, even villages or lords. Men did not “choose a wife”, their wives were chosen for them. Marriage age has varied greatly throughout history, depending on culture, economics, the status of women, and class. In real life, the “traditional” lifestyle that existed in the 1950’s and 1960’s in western culture was most certainly not the norm for most of history. In fact, people got married at younger ages in the 1950’s than they did in the 1920’s, and fewer women worked outside the home. If you’re interested in learning some actual facts and statistics about marriage through the last few thousand years, I recommend this book http://www.amazon.ca/Marriage-History-How-Love-Conquered/dp/014303667X
Or you could just keep making facts up how you like them, and then when people point out how wrong you are, accuse them of not being “logical”, since the definition of “logic” is “whatever a man wants to believe, regardless of evidence.”

Skye
Skye
6 years ago

“The nuclear family standing by itself is a very recent development–if she’s living with all her siblings and cousins, and a hand-working member of the group in her own right, then does she need a man? Except in the sense that straight and bi women like men, of course.”
She probably wouldn’t need one except het/bi. Personally, the idea that someone needs you to survive posited as a reason for marriage or sex has always grossed me out. I want to be with a person who chooses of their own free will to be with me, not because it’s a better alternative than starving. I want my partner to feel the same about me.

Shiraz
Shiraz
6 years ago

Why do trolls insist that the winners in prehistoric times were the alleged alpha dudes who had as many kids as possible? Tribes had limited resources, duder. And these people couldn’t count on meat all the time since most animals were super sized back then and humans only had sticks and rocks to hunt with. Remember, humans weren’t removed from the food chain yet, so a day in which something did not maul you was a good day indeed. Primitive societies used traps for smaller animals too and gathered things like root vegetables, but they couldn’t always count on getting enough of what they needed due to so many variables it could make your head spin (location, weather and so on). What good is it to have eight kids if only one or two survive?

All that other crap he mentioned was pure bullshit. Marriage in prehistoric times? Uh-huh. Forcing women to breed when they’re 12 or 13? Citations? *looking around** No, don’t see any.
He’s assuming primitive people were more concerned about having descendants generations removed from themselves than trying not to starve to death in their present. Though this duder is setting himself apart in that he’s not claiming men kept harems of women to breed with — hence, modern men shouldn’t be expected to accpet monogamy ever. But, shit, whatever. Remember that troll who said all mammals had harems, and that monogomy is commonly known as anti-harem behavior — exclussive to modern times. *Snicker-snort*

Marie
Marie
6 years ago

@Ally

OT: Good news! My mom and my older siblings are okay with me moving in with my trans woman friend in California. Knowing that they’re okay with my plans has taken a huge amount of stress off my shoulders. I should be leaving before the end of this month. I’m so looking forward to this. Finally some nice things are starting to happen.

Yay!! THat’s great news!

@nuclearzimmerframe

Every society in the world including primitive tribes out in the jungle have the institution of marriage

Okay, every society?

Man A chooses a woman about 30 who’s half way through her reproductive lifespan and man B chooses a 14 year old virgin with the whole of her reproductive lifespan ahead of her (the best estimate of the typical age of a prehistoric girl’s first pregnancy is about 17).

Citttaaatttiioooonnnnn nneeeeeddddeeedddd asssssshhhooooolllllleeeee.

By the simple and very reasonable assumption that most reproduction in prehistoric times happened within marriages, we can mathematically infer that a male preference for young virgin girls will be common.

Sorry, douchelord, as has been explained multiple times, you’re wrong, and you cannot use biology to justify your massive creepyness. Go lock yourself up in a pit of legos so human beings don’t have to be around you anymore.

If you’re going for quantity it’s a bit more complicated. The younger they start breeding the longer their reproductive lifespan which means they can produce more young. But obviously only to a point.

Because if there’s one thing humans are known for it’s making as many babies as we can and not being arsed to take care of them.

oh wait no we aren’t.

@david

Nuclear Z, I’m not letting through your comments. You’re making the same point over and over again, and it all seems to be a way of justifying ephibophilia “mathmatically” and I think we’re all pretty much sick of it.

Thank you.

Robert
Robert
6 years ago

The older man-younger woman model reminds me of a line from the movie “Lion in Winter”. Richard II is considering divorcing Eleanor of Aquitaine and starting over with a younger queen, and maybe getting a son who’s not so eager to overthrow him. Eleanor points out what sorts of children old men get from much younger wives, and can he hope to live long enough for the gangling whatsit to grow up. Not entirely fair, of course, but a good comeback nonetheless.

Regarding rap – our older son has eclectic musical tastes. He was listening to something that sounded like an AI being murdered, and I asked if it was dubstep. “No, pop – it’s *dark drum ‘n’ bass*.” I felt so old. My husband listens to rap, among many other things; me, usually jazz. When I listen to the pop/rock I enjoyed way back when I was growing up, the misogyny, among other flaws, is startling. E.g., “In The Summertime” by Mungo Jerry has the line “if her daddy’s rich, take her out for a meal/ if her daddy’s poor, just do what you feel”. Gah. The idea of only liking rap if someone white is singing is as bad minded as only liking rock/metal if someone male is singing.

But then, I have to remember, the only living musician of whom I’m a fan is Terence Trent D’Arby, so I’m way off at the pointy end of the bell curve.