Let’s take another stroll through the strange wonderland of Men Going Their Own Way, that small and bitter tribe of men who boldly declare their independence from women, then spend the rest of their lives obsessively talking about them.
Today, let’s look at the thoughtful discussion that ensued when one such fellow known as TDG asked his Brothers in Going Their Own Way why, of all the women they have Gone Their Own Way from (but not really), they tend to prefer women who are “chaste.”
For women, I’m guessing the main reason they weren’t so slutty before the 1950s, was because of the fear of having a bastard womb turd, but the pill changed all that and now they can have as many dicks as they like.
Now, I wont ever marry again and my ex-wife was a virgin and all that went to shit, but here’s my question;
Why do men want women that are chaste…?
I understand on a visceral level, that if a woman has had too many dicks, I can never care for her more than a cum rag, but I’m curious if that is societal conditioning or something that is innate to men…
Thoughts gentlemen…?
Unsurprisingly, the gentlemen of the MGTOW HQ forum did indeed have many thoughts on the subject. (I’ve bolded the most intriguing bits.)
ManWithAPlan had an economic explanation:
Because by going through the “bad boy” phase, they fuck away their only worth. There are three things I look for in a woman (mainly). Attractiveness, fertility and youth. If a woman is attractive and young, but can’t have kids, most men will treat her as a cum rag. If she’s fertile and young, but not attractive, she’s still no good to most men. If she’s old and attractive, she’s back to being a cougar and a cum rag.
Multishadow brought in biology:
[B]iologically speaking women represent a fertile ground for man to plant his seed, and no one wants to plant his seed in a garbage dump.
Second, a man must work to earn a woman, and then invest in her.. and no man wants to work for what others gain for free, or for what was freely given out in the past. There is also resentment for a female gaining sex freely, when a man must work for it.
And that is the third issue, people in general have a distaste for those who are gluttons for pleasure. … It is one thing to obtain sex when you want it, but if your only purpose in life is laying around having sex.. it is like watching an obese person eat.
That’s right: people who have a lot of sex are basically sex fatties. And no one likes a fatty, right?
Aldenhamil suggested that chaste women were a better bargain for frugal men:
Just having random sex is one thing and any old cum dumpster will usually do, but settling down with a woman, having children, and providing for them is something altogether different. It’s a massive investment of time, energy, and resources. Men naturally lean towards frugality and appreciate getting the most bang for their buck. When it comes to women>children>family, it’s a better bet to invest in a woman who isn’t swinging from every cock in town. …
Men instinctively know that whores make poor long-term investments, but they also instinctively know that all women will become whores if given the opportunity. The whole situation is a bit of a clusterfuck, really. It was a problem for Bronze Age societies, and it’s still a problem long after we’ve managed to put human beings in outer space.
Ghost Rider noted that “chaste” women won’t have had a lot of other guys to compare you to, so chances are good she won’t know how mediocre you are in bed:
From my observations, the more men a woman has been with, the greater the chance that she is carrying at least one torch if not more for some guy that dumped her. I believe the term is alpha widow. Seen quite a few times where a woman dumps hubby to get back with a guy she was carrying a torch for, or at least conduct a torrid affair with the guy when he came a calling.
In addition, she is more likely to get back on the cock carousel trying to recapture what she thought she had when she was younger. Also, a woman who hasn’t ridden the cock carousel is a lot less judgmental in the bedroom because she isn’t comparing you to the hundreds of guys she’s been in the sack with. If you’re an average guy, you’re probably not at the same level as the alpha thug with the huge cock that fucked the shit out of her all night. If you’re dumb enough to get married/remarried, who the hell needs that shit in addition to everything else.
Demonsgate, meanwhile, seems to be more terrified of being judged by other guys than by the women he dates:
Real simple because in my younger days when I walked into a bar or restaurant with a twat I didn’t want all you bastards laughing saying yep we all fucked her and this fool is dating her. Who wants to be that guy?
Mongolking answered TDG’s question with his own question:
I think the larger question is “Why Do We Want Them… At All?”
Given that this discussion is taking place on a forum devoted to Men Going Their Own Way, this seems like a reasonable enough question.
And I’ll give you all an answer: If you hate women so much you regularly describe them as “cum rags,” “cum dumpsters,” “garbage dumps,” “whores,” “twats,” or any of the other horrible things said by guys in this thread about women in the equally awful comments I didn’t quote, you should take that Going Your Own Way shit a little bit more seriously. Go your own way. Go a long way, off a short pier.
Random Loser
All hail Pecunium of the White Knight Fellowship! 😀
Here is a list of sports in which smaller athletes are advantaged. There are probably more I didn’t think of.
Gymnastics
Diving
Figure skating
Ski jumping
Horse racing
Distance running
Wrestling (lower weight class)
Dance (if you want to consider it a sport, there’s debate)
If you want to play sports, consider doing the sport your body is made for. Football and basketball are not the only sports in existence.
If your dick is small, that’s OK. Smart men with small penises will learn to be good at oral, kissing, foreplay etc.
Having a small dick is not an excuse to be a misogynist. Neither is poor technique. And don’t give me any of that ‘all women have to do is lie there’ crap. People who are attracted to women want a skilled and attentive sex partner too.
@Random Poster: Stop claiming you represent the majority of men. Based on what you’ve posted so far, I think you lean more towards the “cis men who are assholes” segment of the population, and it’s not as huge a part of humanity as you seem to think. Contrary to MRM beliefs, being a decent person who views women as full and equal human beings not responsible for random men’s fee-fees is not a huge challenge to an average man.
And as has been pointed out, women do get unfair and unrealistic expectations placed on them by society. Since you love TV shows and fictional tropes so much, what message do you think the “women are wiser” trope really conveys, rather than a straightforward reading of women being inherently wiser than men? That’s right, the expectation that women are wiser, and that they should always tolerate the actions of the husband who simply doesn’t know any better. The husband is free from criticism since men are just silly and horny and childish by nature, but women are expected to be wise and moral and chaste or they’re sluts and bitches and horrible people. No in-betweens, since women, fictional or not, aren’t generally allowed (by misogynists who have these views on women) to be full human beings who can be both wise and stupid, depending on the situation.
Sure, let’s play. Do you realize how inconceivably many of these relevant equations, formulas and models you’ll need in order to predict the behaviour of even a single individual? I’m pretty confident I can’t properly predict the behaviour of my friends in every given situation. That would require me to possess an unerthly amount of data regarding their childhood, their adolescence, their friends past and present, their most secret hopes and fears, things they’ve never told anyone, little details that they never mention because they think they’re too embarassing or silly to be said out loud, every subconscious thing that makes them act in a certain way in a certain situation, things they don’t themselves realize, random memories that suddenly pop into their minds, untold many psychological factors we don’t yet really understand even on a conceptual level, etc.
Point being, even if you’re correct about there being an equation of social interaction, you probably do not have enough information about the individuals involved to make a true prediction about their behaviour. You can make fairly informed guesses with certain people, sure, but the minute you believe you know someone in and out, you’ve pretty much made the decision to be utterly surprised by the actions and reactions of that person time and time again.
One of my friends does this, by the way. He’s so convinced he’s an expert at ‘reading’ people that he doesn’t realize he’s projecting his own categorical errors in reading social cues on others. After six years of knowing me, he’s still convinced that deep down, I adhere to traditional gender roles, which is about the silliest mistake you can make if you know me at all. It’s pretty irritating, and I wish he would knock it out.
Aaaaand yet another.
* Or knock it off, even. Gah. All work and no play makes Anarchonist not so gud at English akshually. Imma go play video games now.
Wait…
I mean sports! I’ll go out and play sports! Wait, I mean…
What do I mean? 😯
Oh my god, he really pulled the “size matters card?” I scoff at you, Random Pooper. Like really, most women I know cannot handle more than 6 inches in their vagina. My two closest friends can’t handle more than 5. Neither can I. Now, of course there is variety, but I assume what you are whining about is “my dick is less than 10 inches how can I satisfy a woman?”
Easy. Stop thinking your dick is a be all, end all for a woman (or even another man)’s sexual pleasure. Fingers, tongue, toys, come on dude step it up. I haven’t talked to many women who can come from PIV alone.
Of course, aside from being a selfish lover maybe RP is afraid that she’ll like the toys more than his penis. And how terrible would it be if a woman came from a toy but not my Manly Meat Stick™????
Look, even if you have a tiny penis (not by a society who is influenced by porn’s standards, but in general) you can still please a woman. So stop making excuses for why you can’t.
Let’s make a proper game out of “predict people based on equations.” What book(s) do I have checked out from the library? You can ask me any questions you like (aside from asking for my library card number and PIN; that’s cheating) to get the variables you need to plug in to the equation. I’ll even give you a hint: I blog at Feminist Borg.
Figuring out my tastes in books should be WAY easier than something as subjective as what women like in bed.
@cassandrakitty- “Why won’t you acknowledge your orgasm privilege, undfreeland?”
Because I don’t have that. It is very hard for me to cum, requiring a great deal of concentration, and generally I can not maintain an erection with a person I have not already been intimate with a few time
To all those assuming I don’t go down on women, I do. I’ve encountered a few who “don’t do that” and others who’ve I”ve made cum with my mouth and hands seem to view it as small consolation. I’ve read up plenty sexuality, and think I’m actually quite adapt at oral sex. Only a few believed I wasn’t impotent, and they were definitely looking forward to being penetrated when I was finally comfortable enough with them.
@Anarchonist “Are you sure you don’t give the wrong impression when you meet women? I mean, there are certain things you do if you’re looking for a stable relationship, and certain things you do if you’re just looking to get laid”
It varies. Sometimes it’s women I meet like that. Sometimes it’s women I”ve known for years.
The ex who told me it was a turn off if she had to tell me, I dated for two years. After a year she told me that she’d been faking her sexual enjoyment, and told me that I should just be able to please her naturally, as the men she’d been with before had done. We stayed together, barely having sex, mostly because of what I think was her low self-esteem. She left me for a guy that she cheated on me with about a year later because, in her words, he gave her “the best sex she’d ever had.”
@Wetherby “Not being female, I can’t speak directly for them, but every single one of my various partners who’ve slept with someone tending more towards the Holmes end of the genital-dimension scale has said that the experience ranged from awkward to uncomfortable to downright painful.”
My experience with female friends is exactly the opposite. They don’t say it’s the end all, be all, but they definitely don’t see a large penis as a negative.
My point is, things are very complicated. Not everyone gets to be an awesome emotionally healthy person living in a progressive place with understanding people. The best we can hope for is an inexperienced women.
I’m not saying I want a virgin, just a women who doesn’t highly value sex and is willing to wait a long time before sex occurs (so i can be comfortable) and when who doesn’t won’t have a bunch of great sex to compare me too, and might be willing to to actually help me out and tell me what she wants. Not just assume I should already know everything. Maybe someone who focused on their education or career for a time to the detriment of their sex life?
The second paragraph here sounds totally fine. There are plenty of women who don’t focus that much on sex, and *any* good partner should be willing to wait until you are comfortable having sex and should be willing to communicate their wants and needs.
But what you said before was that you wanted “one who wouldn’t know what she’s missing.” And you’re still demanding an inexperienced woman. Sounds like you don’t really care what the woman gets out of it, you just want anyone who you can convince to put up with your shitty technique.
undfreeland:
That’s the best YOU can hope for, and since you don’t seem willing to put in the work to get anything else, it’s what you’ll be stuck with. I wouldn’t wish you on anyone.
Yeah, I dunno:
“…and others who’ve I”ve made cum with my mouth and hands seem to view it as small consolation.”
We’re suppose to believe this.
And wait, this happened?
“The ex who told me it was a turn off if she had to tell me, I dated for two years. After a year she told me that she’d been faking her sexual enjoyment, and told me that I should just be able to please her naturally, as the men she’d been with before had done. We stayed together, barely having sex, mostly because of what I think was her low self-esteem. She left me for a guy that she cheated on me with about a year later because, in her words, he gave her “the best sex she’d ever had.”
You’re channeling Freud here, my friend. Vaginal penetration is the only “natural” way to have sex? She said this?
Your ex bragged to you about the best sex she ever had?
Based on following, it sounds like you actually want a partner with experience —
“I’m not saying I want a virgin, just a women who doesn’t highly value sex and is willing to wait a long time before sex occurs (so i can be comfortable) and when who doesn’t won’t have a bunch of great sex to compare me too, and might be willing to to actually help me out and tell me what she wants. Not just assume I should already know everything. Maybe someone who focused on their education or career for a time to the detriment of their sex life?”
But what a bummer if she has actual experience, right man? Like a Schrodinger Cat state of sexuality. She should know how to help you and tell you what she wants, but that requires experience — which you absolutely do not want her to have. ???
@undfreeland
“To all those assuming I don’t go down on women, I do. I’ve encountered a few who “don’t do that” and others who’ve I”ve made cum with my mouth and hands seem to view it as small consolation. I’ve read up plenty sexuality, and think I’m actually quite adapt at oral sex. Only a few believed I wasn’t impotent, and they were definitely looking forward to being penetrated when I was finally comfortable enough with them.”
But I thought you were so bad at sex noone wanted to be with you? Either I’m mixing my trolls up, or you’re starting to contradict yourself.
Of course, your whole shtic seems to come back to piv is the only sex to do, IMO, especially with the ‘women you know want a big penis’ comment.
Oh, FFS.
So, treating individuals as individuals and some monolith is suddenly a thing that only be accomished in a “progressive place.”
See, here’s the thing. You have a right to look for whatever you desire in a relationship (that doesn’t mean that other people are obligated to provide it to you). But just because a woman is a virgin, doesn’t mean she doesn’t value sex. Just because a woman values sex doesn’t mean she’s not willing to wait for it. Just because a woman values sex and/or is not a virgin doesn’t mean she is comparing her current partner to past partner(s), and finding the current one lacking. Just because a past partner has satisfied a woman doesn’t mean she can’t possibly be satisfied with her current partner. And just because a woman has focused on her education and/or career does not mean he sex life has suffered.
And just because you’ve been burned by an ex does not mean that all women everywhere are exactly like your ex.
And yay to Shiraz for hitting two parts of that I had no idea how to respond to, but were rubbing me the wrong way, too.
Should read “…and NOT some monolith…”
I have the answer to this question, of course, based upon RandomPoster’s method.
It’s The Long Earth, by Terry Pratchett and… um, Stephen Baxter?
How do I know?
Well, the formula is simple: take what’s true about yourself, and project HARD.
So….
@undfreeland
You keep clinging to the idea that women who have had enjoyable sex in the past will always try to compare and contrast sex with other people. Women, being human, can have a variety of reasons to enjoy certain kinds of sex with certain people, and are not inherently geared to compare current partners with former ones to a significant extent – at least not for any gender-related reason.
For example, many straight women whose previous boyfriends were good in the sack will still like sex with other men – maybe for the same reasons or maybe for different reasons. Not everyone has only one reason for wanting to have sex. Perhaps one woman who had good sex with a previous partner will still enjoy sex with another partner equally or even more, but in a different way. Straight women’s sexual preferences are diverse just like straight men’s sexual preferences. The examples I’ve provided are merely part of the diverse set of women’s sexual preferences.
I feel kind of weird explaining something about sexuality to a misogynist troll, but whatever…
Lea – I love Discworld. And Magrat’s daughter “Note Spelling.” Poor little girl.
@undfreeland – here’s an alternative. Look for a woman who has had a lot of experience, knows just what she wants and HOW to get it, and is willing and well-able to teach you. Teaching is a skill, as much as good sex is a skill, so the combination of the two may be difficult to find, but extremely worthwhile, I should say. And as stated previously, any really good lover would be willing to wait until you are comfortable, so that shouldn’t be a problem, either.
If you’re having trouble finding your current dream lover, maybe change the dream?
Also, please put your ego aside, and realize that if she requires something other than your penis, it is not a reflection on your worth as a man, but simply on her own needs. And a real man gives his woman what she needs, even if he doesn’t get anything out of it. Of course, a real lover would reciprocate right back. If you are willing to put your ego aside for a little while, you might become an absolutely phenomenal lover! And then, your ego will probably get a big hit from that, later.
I’m acquainted with a woman who never orgasms when a penis is inside her. At ALL. It is actually a turn-off for her. She does, however, orgasm from friction against her inner thighs. She calls these “outgasms.” She’s happy, and her husband is happy, because he comes (auto-correct changed cums to chums), too. After they experimented and found what worked for BOTH of them, they concluded that PIV is only really necessary if you are actually trying to conceive.
There are more sexual possibilities than one person can imagine, so don’t limit yourself to someone who “doesn’t know what she’s missing.” An experienced woman can not only help you pleasure her, but will also know some new and interesting ways to pleasure you. Unless you have a religious thing about purity, I don’t see the downside. And if your religion includes the concept of repentance, then I still don’t see the downside. People used to say “reformed rakes make the best husbands,” and the same would hold true with a woman. If you can forgive her past, and embrace her experience, you can have awesome sex.
Yeah, I’m a virgin, but I read a lot, and I listen to a lot of people, and try to educate myself for the time I finally do have sex. So, looking for a virgin guarantees nothing in the ignorance department.
Ignorance is NOT bliss. Ignorance is ignorance.
Chocolate ice cream with hot raspberry sauce is bliss.
@undfreedland – if your ex was faking it for a year, then you have way more issues than sex. Really.
Good strategy. Wrong, though.
undfreeland ,
Your ex’s problem wasn’t too much experience, it was not enough knowledge. She sounds like she must have been very young to believe the things she told you. Her turn offs do not represent all women. You got cheated on by a woman who thought men actually operated like porn portrays them and you got bitter. That’s a stupid reason to be a misogynist.
Yeah, some ladies like ’em big. Some don’t. Some prefer a variety. Again, if she likes a big one, go buy her one. We all get to like what we like in bed. I’ve had male friends who’s reputation for having a huge cock meant that some women would not date them at all. Different strokes, I guess….
I’ll just see myself out.
BTW, John Holmes is not a man to put forward as a marvelous lover. Having a big dick =/= being good in bed. His life was really quite sad.
Undfreeland,
I have never, ever heard a woman complain about a guy who give oral. Not once. I’m having a hard time buying this.
In any case, instead of hoping for someone inexperienced, how about hoping for someone patient and understanding who likes you for you?
It just sounds like you’re trying to blame women for all your problems and insecurities. You have to look within. I say that as someone who has struggled with body image issues and eating disorders for over fifteen years.
Random Loser,
Can you predict, based on my posts what my favorite kind of cheese is?
Undfreeland’s core problem has nothing to do with sex. It’s that he’s convinced that, if he’s bad at something, it’s an insurmountable problem that he can do nothing about and that everyone else is beholden to accommodate him. This isn’t just going to make him a lousy lay, but also a lousy friend, employee, parent, and everything else.
Wetherby: And as a male who hasn’t (as far as I recall) been attacked by [Pecunium],
We’ve disagreed. The difference is you’ve not been 1: lacking in logical coherence. 2: inclined to treat one bunch of humanity as intrinsically flawed by virtue of biology.
Pester John: Pecunium, just because you may be a self-righteous p.c.’er-than-thou female-worshipping Stepford Husband who puts human females on a pedestal judging by the way you always attack other male posters who arent part of your white knight fellowship doesnt mean the rest of us have to be too.
Aw… did I hurt your feewings?
No, you don’t have to be a decent person, you are entitled to be an asshole. The rest of us are entitled to notice.
And speaking of absurd expectations of human males, when it comes to matters of love and forgiveness, we can’t all be Christ and/ or Buddha or to use a modern example, Pope Francis or the Dalai Lama. How would you women like it to be constantly held to the same lofty moral and ethical standards as say, Mother Theresa or her Buddhist contemporary Cheng Yen?
Non-sequitor much? I’m not holding men to saintly standards. I just expect them to be decent human beings, treating other people in response to their individual actions. You, on the other hand, want to be a bigot, and tar all women with the brush of what the worst of them have done; all the while not holding men to that same standard.
So hypocrite in addition to asshole (if I have one moral failing I hold to be more grossly defective than any other; the one for which my tolerance has been worn to the point I won’t suffer it, that would be those who hold double-standards).
Of course men are [capable of love], a person loves what gives them pleasure and makes them happy
Poppycock. That’s not love. That’s hedonism. It’s hedonism of the most juvenile and pathetic sort. That’s the toddler who want’s more cotton candy than he can carry. It’s the dog who wants all the bones. It’s the fool who thinks expensive = good.
But much more often than not, humanity in general is indeed predictable if you just know the appropriate, proper, relevant equations, formulas, and models.
Do tell… What, my good man, are these equations, formulae, and models? What was the baseline? Who did the studies? Where are the monographs?
Or is this all, School of Random Poster’s Assfax?
. Which can be a good thing or bad thing depending on your point of view. Btw, on sex, as in all human sports, size does matter after all and you just can’t teach size, depressingly enough.
Are you arguing bigger is better? If you are, I’d like to see you stand toe to toe with Hayashi Sensei. At 5’1″ and about 120lbs she’s gonna mop the floor with you.
It’s not love. It’s not even lust. It’s base gratification of simple desire.