Let’s take another stroll through the strange wonderland of Men Going Their Own Way, that small and bitter tribe of men who boldly declare their independence from women, then spend the rest of their lives obsessively talking about them.
Today, let’s look at the thoughtful discussion that ensued when one such fellow known as TDG asked his Brothers in Going Their Own Way why, of all the women they have Gone Their Own Way from (but not really), they tend to prefer women who are “chaste.”
For women, I’m guessing the main reason they weren’t so slutty before the 1950s, was because of the fear of having a bastard womb turd, but the pill changed all that and now they can have as many dicks as they like.
Now, I wont ever marry again and my ex-wife was a virgin and all that went to shit, but here’s my question;
Why do men want women that are chaste…?
I understand on a visceral level, that if a woman has had too many dicks, I can never care for her more than a cum rag, but I’m curious if that is societal conditioning or something that is innate to men…
Thoughts gentlemen…?
Unsurprisingly, the gentlemen of the MGTOW HQ forum did indeed have many thoughts on the subject. (I’ve bolded the most intriguing bits.)
ManWithAPlan had an economic explanation:
Because by going through the “bad boy” phase, they fuck away their only worth. There are three things I look for in a woman (mainly). Attractiveness, fertility and youth. If a woman is attractive and young, but can’t have kids, most men will treat her as a cum rag. If she’s fertile and young, but not attractive, she’s still no good to most men. If she’s old and attractive, she’s back to being a cougar and a cum rag.
Multishadow brought in biology:
[B]iologically speaking women represent a fertile ground for man to plant his seed, and no one wants to plant his seed in a garbage dump.
Second, a man must work to earn a woman, and then invest in her.. and no man wants to work for what others gain for free, or for what was freely given out in the past. There is also resentment for a female gaining sex freely, when a man must work for it.
And that is the third issue, people in general have a distaste for those who are gluttons for pleasure. … It is one thing to obtain sex when you want it, but if your only purpose in life is laying around having sex.. it is like watching an obese person eat.
That’s right: people who have a lot of sex are basically sex fatties. And no one likes a fatty, right?
Aldenhamil suggested that chaste women were a better bargain for frugal men:
Just having random sex is one thing and any old cum dumpster will usually do, but settling down with a woman, having children, and providing for them is something altogether different. It’s a massive investment of time, energy, and resources. Men naturally lean towards frugality and appreciate getting the most bang for their buck. When it comes to women>children>family, it’s a better bet to invest in a woman who isn’t swinging from every cock in town. …
Men instinctively know that whores make poor long-term investments, but they also instinctively know that all women will become whores if given the opportunity. The whole situation is a bit of a clusterfuck, really. It was a problem for Bronze Age societies, and it’s still a problem long after we’ve managed to put human beings in outer space.
Ghost Rider noted that “chaste” women won’t have had a lot of other guys to compare you to, so chances are good she won’t know how mediocre you are in bed:
From my observations, the more men a woman has been with, the greater the chance that she is carrying at least one torch if not more for some guy that dumped her. I believe the term is alpha widow. Seen quite a few times where a woman dumps hubby to get back with a guy she was carrying a torch for, or at least conduct a torrid affair with the guy when he came a calling.
In addition, she is more likely to get back on the cock carousel trying to recapture what she thought she had when she was younger. Also, a woman who hasn’t ridden the cock carousel is a lot less judgmental in the bedroom because she isn’t comparing you to the hundreds of guys she’s been in the sack with. If you’re an average guy, you’re probably not at the same level as the alpha thug with the huge cock that fucked the shit out of her all night. If you’re dumb enough to get married/remarried, who the hell needs that shit in addition to everything else.
Demonsgate, meanwhile, seems to be more terrified of being judged by other guys than by the women he dates:
Real simple because in my younger days when I walked into a bar or restaurant with a twat I didn’t want all you bastards laughing saying yep we all fucked her and this fool is dating her. Who wants to be that guy?
Mongolking answered TDG’s question with his own question:
I think the larger question is “Why Do We Want Them… At All?”
Given that this discussion is taking place on a forum devoted to Men Going Their Own Way, this seems like a reasonable enough question.
And I’ll give you all an answer: If you hate women so much you regularly describe them as “cum rags,” “cum dumpsters,” “garbage dumps,” “whores,” “twats,” or any of the other horrible things said by guys in this thread about women in the equally awful comments I didn’t quote, you should take that Going Your Own Way shit a little bit more seriously. Go your own way. Go a long way, off a short pier.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/i-love-female-orgasm-dorian-solot/1100299771?ean=9781569242766
Next caller, please.
Sorry, but I don’t feel sorry for you dude. If you are bad in the sack I’m sorry, BUT YOU CAN IMPROVE. There is not ifs, ands, or buts about this. I’m assuming that you, like a lot of heterosexual men either don’t know how to find a stimulating angle for the woman you are having sex with during or you don’t have much stamina. Well here’s something for you: sex isn’t just about penetration. Work on your finger work and oral sex technique and learn what stimulates their body outside of their genital area.
And yes some women aren’t communicative of what they like. It happens. However, I’ve never met a woman who thinks being asked what she likes in the sack is a turn off. So I don’t know where you found these numerous women who were all shallow and turned off by you inquiring about what they liked.
One might conclude you are speaking from one experience.
My advise is, if you want a long-lasting relationship, a) don’t pursue virgins because you think they have low-expectations (it’s creepy as hell and doesn’t say anything good about you), b) if your sexual prowess leaves much to be desired then LEARN how to better please your partners. Research and practice, man. And c) don’t generalize about women.
@undfreeland
“Maybe I lack some fundamental empathy or capacity. If that means that women are going to lose interest, fine, but I think it’s completely understandable for someone like me to desire a women with less experience and less to compare to.”
Um…having a hard time phrasing why this is rubbing me the wrong way. Anyone else got anything?
“Is it really so hard to believe that a man could be sexually inadequate to the point that women would reject him? Th”
Wow. All women, everywhere? Are we sharing tips in the hive mind on who’s bad at sex?
“I really don’t want to venture into hyperbolic baiting, but being incapable of satisfying a women sexually and desiring one who wouldn’t know what she’s missing should disqualify someone from comfortably participating in anti-misogyny.”
Nope. You don’t want a women with experience cuz she’ll know your bad at sex. Some women care less about sex, some might be willing to work on it with you, but you want to be with one who doesn’t know more about sex because of inexperience, which is much more mispgynistic because you don’t want women to have all the info on what they’re getting into.
(Any non trolls, did that make sense? I can’t tell)
The problem with this is that the idea that women’s sexual needs are so unimportant that never having them met is a reasonable price to pay for some guy not having to feel insecure is misogyny, and given that this is an anti-misogyny site what you’re attempting is a sort of misogyny-ception.
Wait, nobody offered you the password to the men-who’re-bad-in-bed database yet? This is a terrible oversight. I’ll send headquarters a memo immediately.
OK, there’s a major misstep right there. Was John Holmes a legendarily sensitive and attentive lover? Or did he just have a humungous schlong?
Not being female, I can’t speak directly for them, but every single one of my various partners who’ve slept with someone tending more towards the Holmes end of the genital-dimension scale has said that the experience ranged from awkward to uncomfortable to downright painful. Not least because they were often lousy lovers in most other respects – the attitude seems to be “well, I’m naturally enormous, so I don’t need to work on anything else”.
But what has this got to do with John Holmes? Even if you’re positively minuscule you can still have a hugely inventive and mutually satisfying sex life – provided you’re imaginative enough to realise that your penis isn’t the be-all and end-all of the process. As Lids says, you can do a huge amount with your fingers and/or tongue, and sometimes achieve considerably more.
Just to cite one example amongst many, rhythmically probing your partner’s G-spot with a couple of fingers while vigorously licking her clitoris (or around it) may well trigger far more explosive orgasms than PIV sex alone, and it’s also something that she can’t do herself.
But plenty of other women feel differently. Indeed, many actively like to be asked, not least because it suggests that their lover might actually care about what they feel about the experience.
In other words, “I’m terrible in bed, and so I’ll stick to inexperienced people and will therefore remain terrible in bed.” Which would be a pretty depressing attitude even without the fact that it would involve someone else having a lousy time.
I spent my early twenties having a long dry spell for various reasons, but I used it constructively: I read lots of erotica written by women, I had a lot of serious conversations about sex with female friends (who I think hugely appreciated the chance to discuss these things with someone who wasn’t going to make a pass at them – I made this clear upfront), and by the time I found another partner I was vastly more knowledgeable about female sexual response than I’d been in the past.
And it made a huge difference – every sexual relationship I’ve had since, very much including my current one (fast approaching its thirteenth anniversary), has been sensational. And I’m given to understand that it’s very much mutually appreciated – not least because I tend to favour very experienced women who aren’t the least bit shy about telling me what they want or about whether or not I’m doing the right thing.
cloudiah:
Also, I am the lucky person who just got to meet
kittehserfcloudiah in person. We had fun! She’s just as hilarious in person as she is here.FTFY 😉
Amused – I know this has been said already, but ” And anyone who remains “pure” past one’s teen years (and hasn’t been trapped in a religious fundamentalist lifestyle) is probably that way because they have relatively little interest in sex” is wrong. I’m fifty, still virgin by materialistic/corporeal standards, and have plenty of interest in sex, but only with one person. Being interested in sex doesn’t exist in a vacuum, nor imply that the interest overrides any other considerations.
Michelle – love your comments on this thread. I didn’t read anything shaming or any suggestion of people with different priorities sex-wise being frivolous in them at all.
Marie:
Because it can be summed up as “>Learning sexual skills and/or being a considerate partner in bed are way too much to expect of me, therefore I want a virgin who won’t have any idea that my selfish attitudes and ineptitude aren’t the standard.” (NB. she’ll also need to be a virgin who’s never read anything informative about sex ever.)
At core it’s an abuser’s attitude, however whiny the phrasing.
The flaw in your otherwise brilliant* plan, is that even an inexperienced woman will notice when she’s having a terrible time. She might put up with it for a while assuming it will improve or that it is related to her own inexperience, but if it stays terrible, and you are as without redeeming features as you seem to be, she’s going to move on.
My anecdote to counter your anecdote. Teenaged me broke up with the first guy I slept with specifically because he was selfish in bed. I had no one to compare him to, but I still knew I’d be better off single.
*not actually brilliant
So gross:
“If that means that women are going to lose interest, fine, but I think it’s completely understandable for someone like me to desire a women with less experience and less to compare to.”
It’s not. Hell, with that attitude, why bother with a sexual partner at all? You have other options.
Question, where do you imagine all these inexperienced women hang-out? Are you thinking of combing the local high schools?
Instead of inflicting yourself on the inexperienced you could always crack a book or two and learn about female anatomy. But never mind, this site doesn’t exist to help you be a better lay — or to make you feel better for being so insecure and gross.
undfreeland: perhaps the common denominator in your relationships is you?
“Empathy privilege.” That’s a new one.
That is a new one, hellkell. But Random Troll’s “reverse harem” still cracks me up. Especially the way he attempted to use the phrase like it’s some kind of scientific jargon that most biologists use. Also, he breezed by the fact that anyone in possession of a harem is in fact, a slaver.
Shiraz: details, details. 😉
Undfreeland has orgasm privilege. He can probably still manage to have one even if the person he’s with is making no effort to make it happen, or actively working against the possibility of it happening by not doing the things that would get him there because omg that would be a threat to their egos. Why are you not acknowledging your orgasm privilege, Undfreeland?
Hellkell: 😉
@undfreeland
Or have no friends who talk about sex. No experience =/= no information.
You talk about “desiring one who wouldn’t know what she’s missing”. Bluntly put, if your partner can have more sexual enjoyment by themselves than with you, that is one “ex-lover” you can’t escape by targeting inexperienced women.
I am seconding/thirding the “go buy a book” call. The reason there are books on sexuality is because there are many people out there who would like information on how to better please their partners.
Important addendum – read a book with at least one female contributor. If he just reads stuff written by men found by searching “how to please women in bed” he may end up with something like the PUA who posted here about how it makes all women super horny if you order them to open their mouths and then drool into said open mouths. A lot of men have a tendency to universalize sexual stuff that isn’t actually universal.
@katz
That moonwalking bird was super cute. 🙂
Aww, cloudiah and kittheserf got to meet!
Pecunium, just because you may be a self-righteous p.c.’er-than-thou female-worshipping Stepford Husband who puts human females on a pedestal judging by the way you always attack other male posters who arent part of your white knight fellowship doesnt mean the rest of us have to be too. And speaking of absurd expectations of human males, when it comes to matters of love and forgiveness, we can’t all be Christ and/ or Buddha or to use a modern example, Pope Francis or the Dalai Lama. How would you women like it to be constantly held to the same lofty moral and ethical standards as say, Mother Theresa or her Buddhist contemporary Cheng Yen?
Fuck off, RandomPester.
You’re arguing that a man who hasn’t figured out how to please women* in bed has a right to be a misogynist?
*”women” here referring to the women he’s been with, because we are still not a monolith.
TIL I have “empathy privilege”
Literally no one has said this. Keep tilting at those windmills, buddy.
Um, NO. Even as a virgin, I KNEW what I was missing. And after ceasing to be one, and seeing my also-no-longer-virgin partner failing to improve, I was not impressed.
There is no “should disqualify” here. Go and learn, and stop being such a fucking ignoranus.
*Ignoranus = Know-nothing asshole.