Let’s take another stroll through the strange wonderland of Men Going Their Own Way, that small and bitter tribe of men who boldly declare their independence from women, then spend the rest of their lives obsessively talking about them.
Today, let’s look at the thoughtful discussion that ensued when one such fellow known as TDG asked his Brothers in Going Their Own Way why, of all the women they have Gone Their Own Way from (but not really), they tend to prefer women who are “chaste.”
For women, I’m guessing the main reason they weren’t so slutty before the 1950s, was because of the fear of having a bastard womb turd, but the pill changed all that and now they can have as many dicks as they like.
Now, I wont ever marry again and my ex-wife was a virgin and all that went to shit, but here’s my question;
Why do men want women that are chaste…?
I understand on a visceral level, that if a woman has had too many dicks, I can never care for her more than a cum rag, but I’m curious if that is societal conditioning or something that is innate to men…
Thoughts gentlemen…?
Unsurprisingly, the gentlemen of the MGTOW HQ forum did indeed have many thoughts on the subject. (I’ve bolded the most intriguing bits.)
ManWithAPlan had an economic explanation:
Because by going through the “bad boy” phase, they fuck away their only worth. There are three things I look for in a woman (mainly). Attractiveness, fertility and youth. If a woman is attractive and young, but can’t have kids, most men will treat her as a cum rag. If she’s fertile and young, but not attractive, she’s still no good to most men. If she’s old and attractive, she’s back to being a cougar and a cum rag.
Multishadow brought in biology:
[B]iologically speaking women represent a fertile ground for man to plant his seed, and no one wants to plant his seed in a garbage dump.
Second, a man must work to earn a woman, and then invest in her.. and no man wants to work for what others gain for free, or for what was freely given out in the past. There is also resentment for a female gaining sex freely, when a man must work for it.
And that is the third issue, people in general have a distaste for those who are gluttons for pleasure. … It is one thing to obtain sex when you want it, but if your only purpose in life is laying around having sex.. it is like watching an obese person eat.
That’s right: people who have a lot of sex are basically sex fatties. And no one likes a fatty, right?
Aldenhamil suggested that chaste women were a better bargain for frugal men:
Just having random sex is one thing and any old cum dumpster will usually do, but settling down with a woman, having children, and providing for them is something altogether different. It’s a massive investment of time, energy, and resources. Men naturally lean towards frugality and appreciate getting the most bang for their buck. When it comes to women>children>family, it’s a better bet to invest in a woman who isn’t swinging from every cock in town. …
Men instinctively know that whores make poor long-term investments, but they also instinctively know that all women will become whores if given the opportunity. The whole situation is a bit of a clusterfuck, really. It was a problem for Bronze Age societies, and it’s still a problem long after we’ve managed to put human beings in outer space.
Ghost Rider noted that “chaste” women won’t have had a lot of other guys to compare you to, so chances are good she won’t know how mediocre you are in bed:
From my observations, the more men a woman has been with, the greater the chance that she is carrying at least one torch if not more for some guy that dumped her. I believe the term is alpha widow. Seen quite a few times where a woman dumps hubby to get back with a guy she was carrying a torch for, or at least conduct a torrid affair with the guy when he came a calling.
In addition, she is more likely to get back on the cock carousel trying to recapture what she thought she had when she was younger. Also, a woman who hasn’t ridden the cock carousel is a lot less judgmental in the bedroom because she isn’t comparing you to the hundreds of guys she’s been in the sack with. If you’re an average guy, you’re probably not at the same level as the alpha thug with the huge cock that fucked the shit out of her all night. If you’re dumb enough to get married/remarried, who the hell needs that shit in addition to everything else.
Demonsgate, meanwhile, seems to be more terrified of being judged by other guys than by the women he dates:
Real simple because in my younger days when I walked into a bar or restaurant with a twat I didn’t want all you bastards laughing saying yep we all fucked her and this fool is dating her. Who wants to be that guy?
Mongolking answered TDG’s question with his own question:
I think the larger question is “Why Do We Want Them… At All?”
Given that this discussion is taking place on a forum devoted to Men Going Their Own Way, this seems like a reasonable enough question.
And I’ll give you all an answer: If you hate women so much you regularly describe them as “cum rags,” “cum dumpsters,” “garbage dumps,” “whores,” “twats,” or any of the other horrible things said by guys in this thread about women in the equally awful comments I didn’t quote, you should take that Going Your Own Way shit a little bit more seriously. Go your own way. Go a long way, off a short pier.
Cassandra: please join me in the hypersexual shame corner. I’ll bring vodka.
I know, right?
We can talk about how if our husbands ever got injured we’d just let our relationships die, because that’s what those awful people who “prioritize” sex do.
@hellkell
“OK, I’m sure you don’t mean to come off as though those of who do like sex are somehow frivolous.
Why not expect good sex? The assumption that women are expected not to expect it is sexist as hell.”
Oh, goodness, no! I certainly did not mean that people who like sex are frivolous! Absolutely not.
As for the assumption that women are expected not to expect good sex, that is actually one of the “teachings” in Mormon culture that has bothered me quite a bit. You see, we ARE taught that women don’t want it, and are the gatekeepers for men, who always do want it, and it is completely messed up. It *is* sexist as all get-out, and I HATE those lessons that teach it. It’s not doctrine. It’s culture that got shoved into the lessons. It’s also quite damaging and painful for anyone who has already had sex, or for people, still virgin, who have had sexual dreams or desires. The whole chastity issue is fraught, to tell the truth.
The doctrine is quite simple: Sex is great and reserved for marriage. That’s it. Complete.
How did we even get here? Oh, yeah, Twilight as Mormon story.
Anyway, I’m sorry for the thread-jack, and I will go back to lurking now.
We can commiserate about the love we’ll never know because we’re so shallow.
But acknowledge that our sad romance-free lives are the result of our selfish, lustful priorities.
One last comment, in response to cassandrakitty’s comment. “We can talk about how if our husbands ever got injured we’d just let our relationships die, because that’s what those awful people who “prioritize” sex do.”
That example was what one particular person who ‘prioritized’ sex DID. He left her to die of cancer while begging on the street. I was very angry with him, on her behalf. He clearly only loved her physically, and did not care about her as a person. Yet “love” was the term he used to describe his feelings for her. In fact, he used “love” as his excuse for leaving her to beg on the street. Because he “loved” her so much that he couldn’t bear to see her suffer. So he went away, so he couldn’t actually see it.
That was one example, not a generalization, and does not apply to your and your relationship. It is, however, something that needs to be seen and acknowledged. He was my first example of a Man Going His Own Way, before I had ever heard the term.
And it is OK if sex is high on your list. Your list is for YOUR relationships. My list is for MINE. I do what works for me, and you do what works for you. I never meant to judge you or hellkell or anyone else. I was just trying to explain my own situation. Truly, I am sex-positive, and think that anyone who wants enjoyable sex should be able to have it, so long as everyone involved in it is adult and fully capable of consent. I even support polyandry, which is unpopular.
Apparently, I miscommunicate on a grand scale. Sorry.
Please get up off the couch. You have no reason to be there.
You’re free to have whatever priorities work for you for your own relationships, but for the love of Ceiling Cat please stop spraying shaming language all over the place. Calling people who consider strong sexual compatibility to be important “hypersexual” is downright pathologizing.
Yep, I was wrong. Hyper- is not the opposite of a-. I looked it up in the dictionary, and I am so sorry! Today I learned that it is not merely a high libido, but that it is a medical term, used to refer to a mental illness. WOW. I had no idea.
So, I won’t be using that term again. Add it to the list.
Your friend’s husband prioritized HIMSELF, not necessarily sex. That’s being a grade-A asshole.
She’s already said that’s not what she was doing.
@RandomPoster:
What did paragraphs breaks ever do to you? 🙁
Khymchanur – a paragraph break shot his parents dead on the sidewalks of Gotham when he was just a boy. Now he stalks the night, striking fear into the hearts of orthographics. He is. . .
TealDeerMan.
The misogyny is strong with this one:
“Because by going through the “bad boy” phase, they fuck away their only worth.”
Losers invented this “bad boy” shit. Anyone who uses this phrasing is so insecure that even before a woman gets to know him he’s worried to the bone that she has been with someone cooler/more interesting and/or better than sex than he can ever hope to be. Spending time with an alluring man equals fucking away your worth away? To who? You, insecure sexist asshole guy. You hate women, ergo women will not flock to you. On some level you know this, so you write these angry screeds instead of flogging yourself.
Further proof, you yourself provided, that no woman would ever touch you:
“There are three things I look for in a woman (mainly).”
No one cares what you like, by the way. I mean, not in meatspace where I’m sure you are rightfully shunned by all women. But he goes on:
“Attractiveness, fertility and youth. If a woman is attractive and young, but can’t have kids, most men will treat her as a cum rag. If she’s fertile and young, but not attractive, she’s still no good to most men. If she’s old and attractive, she’s back to being a cougar and a cum rag.”
See, you called some women cum rags. That makes you a douche and a terrible human being. You cloak all this judgement in bio-truths, as if your main concern is to make babies with a virginal runway model. Because your babies will go on to save the world, right? But your porn collection has nothing to do with fatherhood fantasies, son. You want validation, in the worst possible way. You’ll never get it, though.
“A cum rag.” He used this phrase at least three times. I really do think he should submit a photo of himself, next to his post about how some women are cum rags, followed by an official report signed by a physician that documents his sperm count to the letter. Then he can find out how many woman on the planet would find him, errr, useful. Until then, he should live under a rock, where he’s not likely to bother anyone with his epic insecurities, insecurities that spawn power fantasies in which his pronouncements about women are relevant to anyone who actually matters.
You’re an asshole, dude. That’s why you’re unloved.
I agree with the general sentiment of the article, and do not believe in shaming anyone for their consensual sexual activities.
I, however, take issue with this notion, or at least presenting it as if it is self-evidently terrible.
“Ghost Rider noted that “chaste” women won’t have had a lot of other guys to compare you to, so chances are good she won’t know how mediocre you are in bed:”
Maybe the writer is some kind of John Holmes, and kudos if he is, but I know that I have personally lost the interest of women due to my performance in bed. In fact, I almost always lose the interest of women, who were formally super into me, after the first intimate encounter. Not hook-ups either. Women who I knew prior for some time and a romantic relationship was beautifully developing from our friendship.
I’ve been told by an ex who eventually did leave me for another man that my sexual prowess didn’t stand up to the men she’d spent her teenage and early twenties fucking.
In her words “they just knew what to do. If I have to tell you it turns me off.”
Maybe I lack some fundamental empathy or capacity. If that means that women are going to lose interest, fine, but I think it’s completely understandable for someone like me to desire a women with less experience and less to compare to.
To the teal deer troll screeds this clip feels strangely appropriate:
Is it really so hard to believe that a man could be sexually inadequate to the point that women would reject him? That it could create real pain in his life? That he’d ask for just a little bit of understanding from people who he’d like to be able to identify with?
I really don’t want to venture into hyperbolic baiting, but being incapable of satisfying a women sexually and desiring one who wouldn’t know what she’s missing should disqualify someone from comfortably participating in anti-misogyny.
There are lots of privileges in the world, and ironically, those that posses empathy rarely seem to acknowledge that privilege, viewing those of us who would love to understand what others want but can’t as scum or liars.
Dudely poster of randomised crap: Heh, typical modern female. Not just feminist, oh no, all modern females indeed. Demands constant recognition and affirmation of her own position but immediately dismisses and ignores male opinion that she doesn’t agree with and/or approve of.
I am a man. I dismiss you. You are spouting ignorant twaddle; nonsense based on your bitter fantasies and foolish pride.
It’s crap, worse it’s recycled crap.
Which is why none of the female posters here and white knight male posters here bothered to discuss the other valid points in this article
Care to cite one of those, Valid arguments? If you can cite one, then you have to prove it’s not merely valid (dubious, at best) but also true.
Then you need to show that it’s relevant. After that you might want to show the cause of it’s relevance is common.
Then you might persuade someone. Until then all you are doing is rage-wanking in public. It’s pathetic (and it stains your shoes).
Dudely poster of randomised crap: Heh, typical modern female. Not just feminist, oh no, all modern females indeed. Demands constant recognition and affirmation of her own position but immediately dismisses and ignores male opinion that she doesn’t agree with and/or approve of.
I am a man. I dismiss you. You are spouting ignorant twaddle; nonsense based on your bitter fantasies and foolish pride.
It’s crap, worse it’s recycled crap.
Which is why none of the female posters here and white knight male posters here bothered to discuss the other valid points in this article
Care to cite one of those, Valid arguments? If you can cite one, then you have to prove it’s not merely valid (dubious, at best) but also true.
Then you need to show that it’s relevant. After that you might want to show the cause of it’s relevance is common.
Then you might persuade someone. Until then all you are doing is rage-wanking in public.
*corrected improperly closed tag*
As to Margaritaville: that’s a great song. In part because he NEVER blames the woman.
I meant the other teal deer troll.
Anyway… This one sounds whiny and self-centered (being bad at something is not a shame, dreaming about purposefully inflicting it on people who don’t know better… not the sign of a decent human being).
Dude, it was obvious from the moment that you began with “I generally agree” that you just wanted to wank about getting laid, but usually one waits until at least one person replies to you before you start getting huffy about how dismissive we are. Otherwise it looks like you’re talking to yourself.
@undfreeland: Cool story, bro. Let me just ask you this: Are you sure you don’t give the wrong impression when you meet women? I mean, there are certain things you do if you’re looking for a stable relationship, and certain things you do if you’re just looking to get laid.
For example: Have you mainly hung out with these women in bars or clubs (not saying that you can’t meet a future life partner in a bar or a club, just that they are the stereotypical places to go to find one-night-stands)? Have you shared any other interests with them? Maybe you’ve been dating people who were not looking for a relationship, only good sex, and if you’ve been unable to provide that, they’ve broken it off. Maybe they are terrible relationship material. I mean,the fact that they view communication about likes and dislikes as an automatic turn-off should tell you something about the prospects for a relationship with these people.
Be it as it may, your experiences don’t say anything about the population as a whole. “Women I’ve dated in my limited lifespan” does not translate to “women in general”. We’re looking for certain qualities in a partner, consciously and subconsciously. If all the women you’ve dated have dumped you because of inadequate sexual performance, maybe you should consider dating people who don’t see sexual prowess as the most crucial factor in a relationship, or who are willing to communicate to you what turns them on. “I only want to date virgins who have no idea of what good sex is” only tells me you’re goddamn insecure.
And seriously, why do the solutions you and other insecure men present to relationship issues always involve women bearing the responsibility to look out for a man’s fee-fees? Women aren’t your mommy. You have to do your part and try to understand other people and their motivations, or else you do not get to criticize others for their lack of empathy towards you.
Oh wait, so empathy is a privilege now? What the hell, dude? Sounds to me like you want others to understand and have sympathy for you, but are not willing to return the favor, instead claiming some inherent inability to empathize with others. That’s a cop-out, man.
I’m listening to Ani DiFranco right now and it seems apropos: “I’ll never try to give my life meaning by demeaning you.”
undfreeland: What I see is that (as told) you were with shallow women.
I don’t think I am “God’s Gift to Women in the Sack”. I do alright. I’ve had some partner with whom it didn’t work. We agreed that a repeat performance wasn’t a good idea.
But I can’t say that any of the “flops” ever said, “It’s because you don’t stack up”. It was because some aspect of, “the spark” was missing, and a repeat performance wasn’t going to be worth it.
And, truth be told, sometimes it was me who thought the sex wasn’t good enough to want to repeat. Again, it’s not that I was, “comparing” them, so much as I was measuring the pleasure against the effort required. Given that men have an easier time of having at least an acceptable sexual encounter, well the bar is going to be set higher by women (and deservedly so).
That said, if you are so poor in bed that the majority of your partners have thought it wasn’t worth the candle… you need to work on yourself, not inflict crappy sex on the inexperienced.
There are lots of privileges in the world, and ironically, those that posses empathy rarely seem to acknowledge that privilege, viewing those of us who would love to understand what others want but can’t as scum or liars.
Nonsense. The issue isn’t that crappy lovers are scum and liars, it’s that the shitbirds who write the sort of stuff in this post think women are useless, except insofar as they are willing to fuck the assholes who wrote this crap. Since they are assholes, they cast it in such a light as to say women are fundamentally amoral; lacking in honesty, empathy or human decency.
Now, if you want to identify with them, go right ahead, but if you do, we will judge you by the same criteria we use to judge them.