If you missed my talk at Northwestern on the Friend Zone, and most of you did, I go over a lot of what I said in it in my interview with Amanda Marcotte here. My segment of the podcast starts about 8 minutes in. (The rest of the podcast is interesting, too.)
The one thing missing from the podcast that my talk had was … a gazillion terrible Friend Zone memes to illustrate all my points. So here are a couple of the ones I refer to in the interview.
*mansplain
Well, that’s true. Good thing none us ever said that.
We can still not like the “evil friendzoning woman” construct though. The whole BS existed long before the term ever did.
“Him thinking being nice to women should trigger romantic attraction, and that women date douches makes him a misogynist. It’s like you’re trying to argue that water isn’t wet if it tells me it’s not”
Are you saying there are not a lot of women who date douches? Not all women date douches, but there is no shortage complaints from women about boyfriends who are substance abusers, verbally abusive, or cheat on them.
@Racnad
Good god you are terrible. Please stick to the flounce.
Also, you don’t blame women for dating abusive people, jackass. you blame the abusers.
Did you take a course in how to be horrible, or is it natural to you?
Gosh, I can’t figure out why women are afraid to be more assertive when a man they don’t know well (or at all) propositions them. Hmmm…
http://meetville.com/images/quotes/Quotation-Margaret-Atwood-men-laugh-feminism-women-Meetville-Quotes-162378.jpg
Seriously, racnad. Your entire beef is with the blow back you are getting from the Patriarchy. What you fail to understand is that the dynamic that mildly annoys and inconveniences you literally terrifies, maims and murders women daily.
something racnad would benefit from reading what self proclaimed nice guys sound like to everyone else
@racnad
Also, most men don’t introduce themselves “hey, I”m X and I’m abusive” Good god.
OMG. Way to prove the point you think you’re arguing against.
“men harrass women for saying a straight no. every time i said “no” to a guy who asked me out i was bullied for months afterwards.”
Then he’s an asshole and he would have been an asshole regardless of what you told him.
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
wow.
thank you for explaining to me my own experiences, racnad. i was totally unenlightened by the fact that he was an asshole, and also the fact that he objected to the “rudeness” of my plain no. but no clearly you were there and know exactly how he would’ve reacted if i’d given him a white lie
Racnad,
You said that if we spend our time teaching men to be attractive to women they wouldn’t be sexually frustrated and harass women. You put the burden of avoiding harassment on us instead of the harassers.
As for the soft no, women are socialized to be nice and go out of our way to not hurt feelings. It is also common for direct nos to be met with harassment and abuse. Both those things are the result of patriarchy, not feminism. Grow up and learn to live with the soft no. Women have the right to put their personal safety first.
racnad said this:
The term “friendzone” being used to mean “disappointment at not getting sex form a woman a man is being nice too” is not backed up by any evidence and most people don’t use the term “friendzone” to mean that.
But before that, racnad said:
“He hasn’t learned that simply being nice does not trigger romantic attraction in women….”
Dude. That is the very definition of “friendzone” and is misogynistic.
Add to that the “many women will date douches,” because, of course, the proper judge if whether or not a woman’s current date/significant other/love interest is a douche is some other guy who wants to get in her pants.
And, of course, the whole toxic “only unattractive men are called creepy and the same behavior from an attractive man wouldn’t be creepy” and the underlying “women like douches” theme.
@ racnad
Asshole guy: Date me!
Woman: (I should say no nicely, he seems a little dangerous.) That sounds like fun, but maybe another time…
racnad: WHITE LIES!
Woman: Uh, I mean no, but thank you.
Asshole guy: How dare you say no to me!
Woman: (frightened, better tell him what he wants to hear) I mean, okay, maybe once?
racnad: Why do women only date assholes?!
@fromafar
But racnad’s totally not a misogynist though!
“Also, you don’t blame women for dating abusive people, jackass. you blame the abusers.”
I do blame the abusers, but a women in an abusive relationship is 50% of the relationship, and if she’s had more than one abusive relationship needs to examine why she picks abusive men.
Just like men who complain about the friendzone need to examine why they find themselves in that positions. Saying “women only date jerks” is just as shortsighted and wrong as “all men are jerks”.
Placing all the blame on the other gender is never the right answer.
placing all the blame on the abuser *is* the right answer
needs to examine why she picks abusive men
needs to examine why she picks abusive men
needs to examine why she picks abusive men
needs to examine why she picks abusive men
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m13luvDrvp1qbw0gqo1_500.gif
http://media.tumblr.com/a59c99cda990a322c93b4ea13b1861da/tumblr_inline_mqhj1iqVts1qz4rgp.gif
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1f7sucIv61qgs9ujo1_500.gif
@racnad
Kiddo, you can say you blame the abusers all you want, but the rest of the words are proving the opposite.
Wow and now you compared (whether you meant to or not) friendzoning to abuse. You are a terrible person.
taking racnad’s logic and applying it elsewhere…
murderer in court “your honor, i know i killed someone, but it takes two people to murder! one to do the murdering and one to get murdered. in that way, it was 50% their fault. they should think about why they hang out with murderers, anyway”
Everyone has already pointed this out, but women are expected to care more about men’s feelings than their own and to “soften the blow.” And some men react very very badly (like, scary/violent) to being told “no.” So that is both socialization and self-preservation. Don’t like it? Then start working to make sure women can say “no” safely and that those “no’s” are heard and respected. Like feminists are doing.
And there’s that “women like asshole bad boys” shot again.
Okay I fed the blockquote mammoth.
Also racnad, you are ignore that
MOST ABUSERS DO NOT ADVERTISE THAT THEY ARE ABUSERS
THEY ARE GOOD AT HIDING IT
SO THEY CAN ACTUALLY GET AWAY WITH THEIR ABUSE
FUCK YOU.
NOPE.
100% of the blame for abuse is on the abuser.
This is flat-out victim blaming.
Fuck off, racnad.
shorter troll:
“I don’t blame the victims, but [blames victims]”
@ racnad
Come on in! The legos are fine!
-13/10 on the flounce so far. I too am inclined to give the initial flounce essentially no points, because it was at the end of a long, boring post and I didn’t notice it.