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entitlement evil sexy ladies friend zone misogyny nice guys rape culture

Check out my interview about the dreaded Friend Zone on Amanda Marcotte's Reality Check Podcast

Like video games, the friend zone is not real.
Like video games, the friend zone is not real.

If you missed my talk at Northwestern on the Friend Zone, and most of you did, I go over a lot of what I said in it in my interview with Amanda Marcotte here. My segment of the podcast starts about 8 minutes in. (The rest of the podcast is interesting, too.)

The one thing missing from the podcast that my talk had was … a gazillion terrible Friend Zone memes to illustrate all my points. So here are a couple of the ones I refer to in the interview.

if-you-spend-40and-hours-a-week-in-friend-zone_a

fzfPersonalityconsolationprize

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Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@racnad

wow can you say wall of text?

Where is the useful advice on how to avoid being a creep? Like it or not, the definition of creepy behavior varies from woman to women and with each women it varies according to who the man is.

I’ll give you a hint. 1) google 2) respect people’s boundries.

The only certain way a man can avoid being perceived as creep is to avoid expressing any romantic interest in women unless she has made an unambiguous first move.

wrong. BUT

if you do not know how to approach a woman without being creepy.

DO NOT.

It’s that simple.

. But like it or not most women expect the man to make the first move, which means there is always the risk of being perceived as creepy, since men are not mind readers.

Citation needed. (on women wanting men to approach. Not men not being mind readers. Duh)

Sure, there are certain behaviors what most women find creepy and those should be avoided, but any man who’d like to have girlfriend needs to take this risk from time to time that his expression of interest might not be welcome

Troll to english translation: Sure, there are certain behaviors most women find creepy and those behaviors should be avoided, BUT THEN MEN WON’T BE GETTING LAID SUCH TERRIBLE!

And if he isn’t the type of man considered attractive by a large percentage of women, then he has a larger risk of being perceived as creepy as a man who is seen as attractive by a large percentage of women.

Nope. I’m not sure why little fuckwads like you are so convinced it’s your looks, and not your terrible personalities.

This is the point missed by feminists when they complain about creeps and the concept of friendzone.

Is your ass jealous of the shit that comes out of your mouth?

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@racnad

Marie, are you capable of intelligent conversion or only name-calling?

aww, the troll doesn’t like me :3

Read the title of the site. I’m here to MOCK misogyny, not carefully debate it.

Robert
Robert
10 years ago

Does What It Says On the Tin.

It is not part of feminism’s brief to help men get laid. That is not a bug, it’s a feature. Many men who are not ‘dreamy-eyed hunks’ have happy and healthy relationships with women. Mostly by being happy and healthy themselves, to begin with. It CAN be done.

Fade
10 years ago

ooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhh my god racnad why are you acting like being read as a creepy by the people you are being creepy towards is the most horrible thing on earth?

grumpycatisagirl
grumpycatisagirl
10 years ago

Racnad,

All you have to do is respect a woman’s “no.” That’s it. That’s why we “complain about the concept of the friendzone.” Because it doesn’t.

racnad
racnad
10 years ago

” I’m here to MOCK misogyny, not carefully debate it.”

Thank you for clarifying your motivation. I’ve looked at this site, and the misogyny described does indeed exist. The infamous meme referring to a “rapezone” is indeed misogynist because no one deserves to be raped for any reason.

But what I’m seeing is that the small number of misogynists on the web and the feminists angry about the word “freindzone” are opposite sides of the same coin. They’ve taking a word that humorously referred to unrequited love and redefined it as meaning “any woman I like is obligated to have sex with me!” I have never believed that and no one I know has thought that way. Where is the evidence that very many people using this term are thinking of the feminist definition? Feminists promoting this definition are claiming to be mind readers by proclaiming that anyone using this word is also using their definition.

One more comment:
“Citation needed. (on women wanting men to approach. Not men not being mind readers. Duh)”

If you need a citation confirming that men are generally expected to do the asking out, then you are either ignorant or in denial of how dating as worked in western culture for decades.

I’ve said my peace, now I’ll let the angry misogynists and angry misandrists continue to take pot shots at each other.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@racnad

cute. You still need a citation :3

Lol misandry don’t real.

But what I’m seeing is that the small number of misogynists on the web and the feminists angry about the word “freindzone” are opposite sides of the same coin. They’ve taking a word that humorously referred to unrequited love and redefined it as meaning “any woman I like is obligated to have sex with me!”

See, when those guys who refer to the friendzone, also whine about how girls only date douches, or that he’s done everything he could and she still thinks of him as ‘just a friend’

he is a misogynist.

it’s not just unrequited love. It’s whining that you’re only friends with a girl. Because you don’t give a fuck about her friendship. It’s just some cruddy consolation prize.

Peace~ ^u^

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

Also, racnad, I didn’t want a citation that men are expected to ask women out, in soceity, I wanted one that MOST WOMEN expected it. Because most implies, like almost all. There a difference between, say half of women thinking men should ask women out, and the other half thinking it doesn’t matter, and 90% of women thinking men should ask women out.

But this really isn’t a point I feel like arguing.

Also, I don’t expect men to ask me out because I don’t want to date any fucking men. And there are other women who don’t want to either.

fromafar2013
10 years ago

LOL, racnad, umad?

Waaaa, I hate that women are human beings as complex and fickle as men, waaaaa!

Patriarchy has socialized most of the women I’m interested in into believing than men are the only ones with agency and so they won’t ask me out! Damn you feminists! Waaaaa!

http://cdn.mdjunction.com/components/com_joomlaboard/uploaded/images/Waaaambulance.jpg

This gif is also strangely appropriate: http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5381/assholefairy.jpg

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

Racnad’s going to flounce instead of addressing my point about his blaming of harassment victims?

Oh well. Boring flounce 1/10.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@weirdwoodtreehugger

He’s flouncing instead of addressing your points? I act surprised. XD

racnad
racnad
10 years ago

“All you have to do is respect a woman’s “no.” That’s it”

When I was dating, I found it was actually rare for a woman to say no. More often is was something like “That sounds like fun, but I’m busy this weekend. Maybe another time,” which left me trying to figure out if this meant she wasn’t interested, or that it sounded like fun to her but she was busy that weekend and would like to go out another time.

It was explained to me that women felt an ambiguous answer was more “nice” and less likely to hurt a guys feelings, but when I was actually told “no,” or “No. thank you” as a softer but till clear message, I respected them for it.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@racand

Wow way to stick to the flounce.

More often is was something like “That sounds like fun, but I’m busy this weekend. Maybe another time,” which left me trying to figure out if this meant she wasn’t interested, or that it sounded like fun to her but she was busy that weekend and would like to go out another time.

Wait, you’ve realised women are socialized to let men down gently? SAY IT ISN’T SO.

It was explained to me that women felt an ambiguous answer was more “nice” and less likely to hurt a guys feelings, but when I was actually told “no,” or “No. thank you” as a softer but till clear message, I respected them for it.

……………………………………….

………………………………………………………….

………………………………………………………………………………..

????

Man, I’m inclined to tell our trollboy ‘fuck you’ but I can’t put my finger on why. Anyone got an idea?

titianblue
titianblue
10 years ago

Aah, poor @racnad can’t understand a soft “no” from a woman and can’t possibly ask for clarification when in doubt.

racnad
racnad
10 years ago

“See, when those guys who refer to the friendzone, also whine about how girls only date douches, or that he’s done everything he could and she still thinks of him as ‘just a friend’

he is a misogynist. ”

That doesn’t mean he’s a misogynist, that means he hasn’t learned that simply being nice does not trigger romantic attraction in women, and that many women will date douches if there’s something about him that triggers romantic attraction.

” I don’t expect men to ask me out because I don’t want to date any fucking men.”

That is your personal business and that is fine.

If a man gets angry at you because you don’t want to date or have sex with him then that man may be a misogynist and is definitely an asshole.

But that doesn’t justify making sweeping generalizations about men who use a word you’ve redefined for them.

Fade
10 years ago

When I was dating, I found it was actually rare for a woman to say no. More often is was something like “That sounds like fun, but I’m busy this weekend. Maybe another time,” which left me trying to figure out if this meant she wasn’t interested, or that it sounded like fun to her but she was busy that weekend and would like to go out another time.

that is a no, dipshit.

hellkell
hellkell
10 years ago

-1/10 on the flounce.

Fade
10 years ago

That doesn’t mean he’s a misogynist, that means he hasn’t learned that simply being nice does not trigger romantic attraction in women, and that many women will date douches if there’s something about him that triggers romantic attraction.

a guy who thinks you can put niceness coins into a girl and sex will fall out is a misogynist.

Fade
10 years ago

tl;dr version of racnad ” I put the nice in the woman vending machine and she not sex me? That is not misogynistic view to have! ps people think i’m a creep because i am a creep”

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@racnad

That doesn’t mean he’s a misogynist, that means he hasn’t learned that simply being nice does not trigger romantic attraction in women, and that many women will date douches if there’s something about him that triggers romantic attraction.

Wow. No. You do not understand.

Him thinking being nice to women should trigger romantic attraction, and that women date douches makes him a misogynist. It’s like you’re trying to argue that water isn’t wet if it tells me it’s not.

If a man gets angry at you because you don’t want to date or have sex with him then that man may be a misogynist and is definitely an asshole.

But that doesn’t justify making sweeping generalizations about men who use a word you’ve redefined for them.

Wow. The irony. Troll boy doesn’t like people making sweeping generalizations about men :’)

racnad
racnad
10 years ago

“Racnad’s going to flounce instead of addressing my point about his blaming of harassment victims?”

I never blamed harassment victims. Express disappointment of unreturned attraction by using a term referring to an early-1960s TV show is not harassment. The notion that anyone using the term believes any women they like is obligated to have sex with them is not backed up with any evidence. Some immature guys may use it that way but you are over-generalizing.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@racnad

Wow the contradiction I am amazed.

The notion that anyone using the term believes any women they like is obligated to have sex with them is not backed up with any evidence. Some immature guys may use it that way but you are over-generalizing.

racnad
racnad
10 years ago

“When I was dating, I found it was actually rare for a woman to say no. More often is was something like “That sounds like fun, but I’m busy this weekend. Maybe another time,” which left me trying to figure out if this meant she wasn’t interested, or that it sounded like fun to her but she was busy that weekend and would like to go out another time.

that is a no, dipshit.”

No, that is a “white lie” but still a lie which teaches men to not take what women tell them at face value and places the burden on them to figure out if the woman he’s talking to is being truthful or not. What’s wrong with honesty in relationships?

Fade
10 years ago

b/c men harrass women for saying a straight no. every time i said “no” to a guy who asked me out i was bullied for months afterwards.

Sheesh “women tell white lies b/c men flip out at the truth OBVIOUSLY THIS IS WOMEN’S FAULT”.

Marie
Marie
10 years ago

@Racnad

You little fuck. You don’t blame women for lying to men when some men get violent when rejected more harshly.

But hey, masplain to us about how we’re imagining it again.