If you missed my talk at Northwestern on the Friend Zone, and most of you did, I go over a lot of what I said in it in my interview with Amanda Marcotte here. My segment of the podcast starts about 8 minutes in. (The rest of the podcast is interesting, too.)
The one thing missing from the podcast that my talk had was … a gazillion terrible Friend Zone memes to illustrate all my points. So here are a couple of the ones I refer to in the interview.
“To go back to the point LBT was making last night, if a gay man who is much bigger than you comes up to you and stares at your crotch, stands too close to you, says things you find inappropriate; what would you do?”
One time a gay man at a party started stroking my arm with his hand. I picked up his wrist and moved it away from me, which is exactly what a girl did to me when I did that a few years earlier. I got the message then and he got the message too. Another time a gay man expressed interest and just I told him I wasn’t gay. I treated both of them the way I prefer women who aren’t interested in me to treat me – no harm no foul. If I felt physically threatened I would leave, But I agree with you all than no one should make another feel physically threatened.
From my phone:
racnad: take no as no, whatever the form. That’s the takeaway on how to not be a creep. Tonight (well after 2200) I will give you the ass-chewing you deserve for minimising women’s autonomy, belittling their fears, excusing their abusers. And generally being a willful fuckwit.
You have gotten far more courtesy (and much less in the way of hostility, and abuse) than you deserve. I may choose to rectify some of that.
You, you weaselly little waste of carbon, water, and oxygen, don’t deserve anything less than the outrage and opprobrium of decent people. You continue to whine that women aren’t nice enough to men, insist that if they only worked to get assholes who (like you) don’t give a shit about them as real people (rather than sex-dispensers) laid (despite th being jerks and assholes) then they wouldn’t have anything to worry about.
[over-the-top language removed –DF] I’ve run out of patience for your, intentionally, obtuse JAQing off; married to a faux concern for women.
On the (so far as I can see reasonable) assumption you won’t change (based on the way you pretend no advice has been given you) it is my sincere hope you never manage to trick any woman into more than a one night stand.
Because they deserve a person who actually cares about them as people, and understands they have wants, needs, fears, and desires. You are, by all the evidence, lacking in even this, minimal, amount of empathy.
You are a pathetic example of humanity.
So kindly bugger off, or I shall taunt you a second time.
Did you take the time out to educate him about why it’s creepy to touch someone without consent? If not, why do you expect us to do so?
Considering the fact that we’re all upset about the shooting that occurred, a shooting done by a “Nice Guy” it is absolutely disgusting that you’re still in here trying to justify this bullshit. What is wrong with you?
To be honest, I’ve felt that asking a woman is she’s really busy is awkward because it is accusing her of lying. When I have “asked for clarification,” the conversations were awkward because I have put her on the spot and forced her to say what she was uncomfortable saying.
So you did know, but wanted to force her to be more obvious.
Creep.
RE: cassandrakitty
LBT could be like “I am a gay man, would it be OK if I randomly offered to suck your cock?” and he’d be all “women respond too aggressively when men randomly ask them to suck our cocks, and this is why men are bitter and angry”.
I actually once got irritated enough with a guy who stated that not ogling women was haaaaard that I actually started blatantly staring at his ass, and saying how nice it was, and could I touch it.
He thought I was a girl, and a really fucking hot chick too, but funny, somehow, that actually really creeped him out. It’s almost as though being a creeper is CREEPY!
RE: racnad
However, they address immediate situations where a woman doesn’t want to have sex, not the meanings of the words for potential future events.
Boy, you ain’t got the sense God gave a popsicle.
those debates are more civil that what was posted here.
You can be as civil as you want, but that doesn’t make the shit you’re spewing gold. It just makes it civil shit. Come on.
We don’t want you here, racnad. We want you to leave. Is that a hard enough NO for you?
Congratulations, racnad, you just friendzoned that poor gay man. Was he not attractive enough for you? Maybe you should’ve given him dating advice so he wouldn’t feel bad.
“Do the women reading this really want to be asked “Are you really busy or do you have no interest in dating me?”
Sure. If you put me on the spot like that — after I go through the trouble of letting you down easy, sure. And I’ll give you really honest answer too. I don’t think you’d like to live in a world where people never sugar-coated anything, fella. You’re so insensitive and self-entitled that you would probably get your ass handed to you for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
That woman you started to grope years ago (before you knew better, right?), the one that removed your hand. She was being awfully nice to you when you didn’t deserve it. She went for civility after you violated her personal space because she didn’t want a scene. And why risk inciting your rage? If you were presumptious enough to touch her without permission, it’s not such a leap to wonder if you’d react violently if she shoved you away and told you to fuck off. She was trying to avoid that and go on with her evening.
You have no idea how much, in fact, this world goes out of its way to accomodate you and you fee-fees.
noooooooooooo you’d say “would you rather schedule some other time, or is it not something you’d want to do?”
this is good b/c it gives options
it shows you understand she may not want to go out w/ you
and then if she doesn’t you accept it and don’t act like a creep about it
ffs.
shiraz
b/c if *we* don’t sugar coat our interactions with him we are super duper hostile. :/ but if *women* he asks out do sugar coat their responses, it is super lying and confusing. Poor little rancid can just not win.
Fade,
Yep. I can’t imagine socializing with someone who thought polite language and soft no’s were the same as filthy, filthy evil lies. Jesus. Doesn’t sound like a good time.
If I asked someone I don’t know very well if they like my shoes and they, I suspect, say “yes” just to be nice, I’m not going to confront them and be all, (in Robert De Niro voice) “Are you lying to me? Are you lying to me?! Are you telling me an evil, evil lie?! Why are you trying to hurt me with your lies??? How I’m I suppose to go on living if you don’t tell me exactly what you think, person-I-don’t-know-very-well/ or at all.”
“To be honest, I’ve felt that asking a woman is she’s really busy is awkward because it is accusing her of lying. When I have “asked for clarification,” the conversations were awkward because I have put her on the spot and forced her to say what she was uncomfortable saying.”
Why the hell would you do this?
Maybe you suspected she really wasn’t interested so you forced the issue — which is fucking obnoxious, though hey, why not make her feel uncomfortable is she doesn’t give you an immediate answer that you want to hear? It’s a win-win, right? Oh wait, no, you’re just interested in the purity of truth, yeah? **eyeroll**
@racnad
We. Are. Not. Your. Mommies.
@racnad
You still haven’t answered why we should help men get laid, you disigenous fuck.
Dude, from here on out: assume a maybe is a no. Because you’re a terrible person and are looking for any excuse to violate boundries.
@weirdwoodtreehugger
Yeah, gosh racnad, why didn’t you educate him? What if he creeps on other men??? I
FFFFFFF
Fuck it guys, racnad isn’t interesting, and I just got creeped on. YES FUCKING AGAIN I HAVE TWO FUCKING CREEPERS WITH STALKER BEHAVIORS HERE.
This guy keeps hanging around my apartment complex, and interrupted my lovey-dovey couples time by shouting after me on the street. Since the last time he got near me, he grabbed and kissed me, I fled into the yard of some old guys having a garage sale with their pit bull, and he passed on.
I know I should call the cops, but creeper is in constant motion and always gone in a few minutes, and it’s like I turn into frightened meat the moment I see him and forget that I’m an adult with a middle finger and the power to shout, “FUCK OFF.”
I just want local friends, guys. Why do I have as many local friends as I do creepers? I didn’t have this problem in Boston!
*curls up in a ball of misery*
Oh, LBT, I’m so sorry.
QFmotherfuckinT
Racnad, fuck off with your sniveling shit today. Apparently guys like you ARE the goddamn problem.
LBT: Jedi hugs. I’m sorry these creeper are creeping on you.
LBT: that sucks. All the hugs.
Dave: You were right, I let my disgust cloud my better nature, and I put things badly. I’m sorry. I guess I’m glad I was on my phone, which wasn’t out of moderation.
Again racnad is getting better treatment than he deserves.
LBT, that is terrible. I’m so sorry.
@LBT
That’s terrible. INternet hugs from me, if you want them.
@LBT
:: offers hugs ::
And despite myself, I’m mad, mad because I know I’m acting like Frightened Meat, which is just going to keep those creepers coming. But every time I see Creeper, it’s like I completely lose my composure. I can handle a lot of shit, I can handle trolls on Mammoth, but apparently I can’t handle people getting in my personal space and touching me and kissing me without my permission.
I HATE BEING MENTALLY ILL. I WANT MY BRAIN AND FEELINGS TO BE COMPLETELY UNDER MY CONTROL SO I STOP BEING STUPID.
@LBT, :offers hugs:
And please don’t be too hard on yourself. It is a rare person who can cope calmly with that kind of horrible experience.
LBT: please don’t beat yourself up. It;s not a failure on your part, it’s a failure on creeper’s.
*sigh* I know, I know, just uuuuuurgh.