Upvote, downvote: Men's Rights Redditors on the evils of "p*ssy privilege" and women being encouraged to go into tech

Re Helen: She may have been real. It’s quite possible that she was playing games with Paris; in a form of personal liberation/realpolitik (Trojan women had a lot more freedom/autonomy than Achaean women).

Also a personal reason (e.g. a breach of hospitality) was much more in keeping with the public justifications for war (and as a means to get allies) than was a purely political one (such as Troy’s control of the tin-trade from the Mesopotamia/Asia Minor to Greece).

Is there any information about why the armed forces decided to preclude women from active combat roles, other than a “it’s a matter of established policy”?

Because Congress forbade it.

I hope you do know that testosterone is responsible for building muscle mass and therefore men having more testosterone will defenaitly have more lean muscle packed into their upper bodies replacing fat whereas the female upper body is more fat than muscle. This means that men on average are stronger than the average woman of the same body dimensions simply because of more lean muscle packed into his upper body. How well he uses this strength is another factor altogether. Not arguining that we should ban females from service but limiting their roles to suit their abilities is always a good thing. I’m more worried about the security of the nation rather than letting some random woman fulfill her war fantasies. Im more worried about the women firefighters and soldiers who are given easier tasks during screenings and therefore the more suitable male candidates for the aforementioned roles are avoided. No gender is superior, but if im trapped in a building on fire, id like my firefighters to be able to carry me( 6 ft tall, 160 pound man with broad shoulders) if i was unable to walk. Thats not sexism, thats the ‘best man for a job’ criteria.
The Selective service has always been a sign that men have always fought wars to protect their women and their country and in today’s world, its difficult to find men who would sacrifice their lives for anything.
I believe the titanic would have played out differently in the 21st century. Benevolent sexism will never fade away because of the many women who still want to be treated like a princess and likewise misogyny and misandry(non-institionalised) will never fade away because of the existance of people who perpetuate them.

Pussy privilage IS real. It all depends on who wants to use it. Feminist women may not use it but i know a few who used it to get promotions and other favours from their boss in exchange for.. Uhh.. Sexual favours. He was a total pervert. It does exist though but not on the level that MRAs would like to believe.

Women have always fought for women’s rights only but some men have always been rabid supporters of women’s rights. I dont want to enter a pissing contest about who is more oppressed but we have to understand that both genders have problems and men have problems like the default child custody for women and men getting more jail time. Fighting #patriarchy will not solve these issues magically. We need to address this problem as independent of patriarchy and look for legal reforms to address these issues. That is where feminism fails. While MRAs bring nothing productive to the table either. Either way, men are screwed.

MRM was actually a movement intended to address the shortcomings of feminism, but like all movements, it was hijacked by gender narcissists and bigots even more than feminism itself. Paul Elam is NOT the father of MRM, I’ve told him to fu(k off multiple times and also found myself agreeing to some of the things he says too. Both movements have failed to help men and now we have men in the real world thinking to themselves,

Hey really, “what about teh menz?”

Only to be met with silence.

Is he referring to the GirlWritesWhat video on Female Privilege? If so, her argument is plenty laughable.

In it, she explains that Muslim Women, according to the Quran, are allowed to work and can keep all of their earnings when they do, while Muslim Men must use their earnings to support their family. It was because of this that, in Afghanistan and other Muslim countries, they passed a law forbidding women to work as a means of helping their unemployment rate. This, in turn, lead to young men in the family being forced to prostitute themselves out in order to support their mothers and sisters.

I actually had to explain what was wrong with that argument for “female privilege” to my MRA friend, but I think all of you can figure it out for yourself…

RE: Fibinachi

Interestingly, that’s not the first time in the book the “Men who don’t go to war will be seen as weak and raped by burly prisoners” come up. It happens six or seven times.

Gotta love the idea that, if men don’t sign up for conscription, they will be imprisoned and raped multiple times by other men, and that THIS is somehow women’s fault. Because you know where there are tons and tons of women? In male prisons.

It’s like, dude, do you not even realize what doofiness you’re saying?

These hidebound MRA’s bemoaning the “male-only combat requirements” always seem to conveniently forget that said “requirements” are rules put in place BY MEN, and are being actively challenged in court by women in the armed forces who want an equal role—because having served in a combat role is basically a requirement for advancement to higher ranks.

The “male-only draft” (and I still have to hyuck at the mention of “the draft”) isn’t some trick by the wimminz to stay close to their fainting couches and avoid service, it’s just another example of patriarchy and women being unfairly excluded from career opportunities that they are seeking.

I’ve never served in the armed forces and never will. But simply by the sheer fact that I’m male, I could sign up and advance as high as my abilities could carry me, even so far as to become the top commander… and that is denied to women.

RE: Fibinachi

Interestingly, that’s not the first time in the book the “Men who don’t go to war will be seen as weak and raped by burly prisoners” come up. It happens six or seven times.

Gotta love the idea that, if men don’t sign up for conscription, they will be imprisoned and raped multiple times by other men, and that THIS is somehow women’s fault. Because you know where there are tons and tons of women? In male prisons.

It’s like, dude, do you not even realize what doofiness you’re saying?

I am beginning to suspect he does, in fact, not.

I don’t think Warren Farrell actually reads up on anything, he just kind of makes grand statements.

For instance, nothing supports that bit about the certainty that you will get raped in jail by a homosexual. I’m so sorry for writing that out, by the way, but it’s just there, no underlying stats on prison rape, no things about just incarceration, just a looming spectre of rape to scare people. And not even a mention about how prison rape is a fucking crime and terrible and we should try to have it avoided as much as possible. Nope!

According to my sources, for instance, in the Vietnam era, you had 27 million draft-age men, about half a million draft offenders, 9000 of which were convicted and finally about 3000 or so were actually imprisoned.

That’s 3000 out of 27 million, although someone might be more interested in the 15.9 million who for one reason or another never served in the military in any way, so really, it’s 3000 out of 15.9 million.

But Farrell makes no mention of that, it’s just… “Dodge draft, AIDS in jail”.

So that’s one thing.

But another thing is, say, Marilyn French, who wrote the Women’s Room, is quoted several times in both The Myth of Male Power and in Why Men Are The Way They are as: “All men are rapists and that’s all they are“. It’s not even the full quote (Which is “, “Whatever they may be in public life, whatever their relationships with men, in their relationships with women, all men are rapists, and that’s all they are. They rape us with their eyes, their laws, and their codes.” )but whatever.

Not as if the character in the book that actually says it says it (Val, near the end), but as if she, Marilyn French, personally thinks all men are rapists. You could argue that it’s an opinion French shares, but it’s kind of like saying that Shakespeare personally approves of murdering your king, or stabbing your lover or poisoning young men.

And the reference for that is NOT a link to The Women’s Room, but a link to a People’s Magazine book review of The Women’s Room. by Gail Jennes – and that’s the same in both Myth of Male Power and in Why Men Are The Way They Are. And more so, in The Myth of Male Power, where that quote about all men being rapists is used, there’s a reference to both that book review (not the actual book, a book review, that you can see in the archieves of People, right here, Link), and then later on, there’s a reference to how the social roles of men lead to rape, which is really just a reference to Why Men Are The Way They Are… which is really just an explanation for men’s social roles that is, once again, that quote (all men are rapists), mis-attributed, with only a reference to the book review, and not the actual Women’s Room book.

That’s just… amazing.

And, hilariously / disturbingly, there’s a short review of The Women’s Room on another page, which goes:

1: Dependent wife.
2: Wife “realizes” men oppress her.
3: Woman leaves husband, has nothing to do with men.
4: Woman meets Mr. Wonderful.
5. Even Mr. Wonderful is a jerk. Implication: all men are jerks

If we look closley at The Women’s Room we can see even from the outline how woman’s “realization” that she is oppressed by men leads naturally to alienation from men, which creates a self-fulfilling prophecy that all future Mr. Wonderful will become Mr. Jerks. With that approach, “liberation” becomes a room of one’s own”

And that’s it. That’s… That’s it. A mis-attributed quote used no less than 6 times throughout both Myth of Male Power and Why Men Are The Way They Are, a short “Women’s lib leads to alienation” and in all cases Warren Farrell only ever supplies a link to a book review of the book he is using to prove that all feminists think all men are nothing but rapists at all times.

I’m sorry for banging on about it, but it just fucking boggles my mind why this guy is taken the least bit seriously and I can’t understand why anyone would read this and not laugh out loud for ages.

And I can’t understand how someone can write a book about the alienation of a modern housewife and then have someone else turn that into an argument for the alienation of the modern man, and how all women just see him as a rapist and poor fucking him.

And now I’ve polluted this comment-section with stuff, and I’m sorry, but I just want it out of my head.

Its not even a good quote from The Women’s Room, I much prefer, for instance, this one:

“There was no justice, there was only life. And life she had.” ”

And it’s like that with every single fucking source you look at. He gets no less than eight endnotes out of one Cosmopolitan article, which is again referenced multiples times in both books, in an attempt to prove that the sexual revolution ended because women stopped being able to get men to pay for dinners and I just can’t… ARGH.

Aaaaaagh.

reboot

It does, doesn’t it? Book came out in 2002, so he must have spent a good part of the ’90s perfecting that piece of twaddle. Certainly he seems to have gone out of his way to say that Rush Limbaugh was right about feminists being Nazis, or at least, “just like” them. To which the not-so-old saying comes to mind: Yeah, because working for gender equality and improving women’s lot in life is just like gassing Jews and invading Poland.

I’m sorry for banging on about it, but it just fucking boggles my mind why this guy is taken the least bit seriously and I can’t understand why anyone would read this and not laugh out loud for ages.

Yeah. That. I remember some dude coming here and commenting “if you read Warren Farrell you’d definitely be MRAs.” Some people take his word not only seriously but as the most convincing and definitive thing ever.

@Sixpack

Promotions in exchange for sexual favors is “pussy privilege?” Really? I always thought such a thing was a form of workplace sexual harassment, which is a result of sexism.

People have been saying this a million times already, but default child custody going to the mothers is due to the cultural expectation that child care duties go primarily to the mother. When a working couple starts expecting a baby, who does everybody expect to quit the job to focus on the child? Mommy. If no one quits working, whose chances of promotion drops? Mommy. Which parent is considered the “bad parent” for not stopping work to care for the child? Mommy. Even after working full-time, who is expected to shoulder the bulk of the household duties? You guessed it. If the couple divorces, if the father tries to share custody of the kids, unless he’s abusive he’ll get it.

The whole “Feminism fails because it doesn’t address men’s problems” notion is quite selfish. Just because it doesn’t help *you* specifically doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile. I care about LGBT issues and wrote letters and signed petitions to support same-sex marriage in my home state despite not being an LGBT person myself. Will it address my own problems? No. But I’m not going to whine to some non-heterosexual-cis-people about “What about the straight-and-cisgendered?”

In it, she explains that Muslim Women, according to the Quran, are allowed to work and can keep all of their earnings when they do, while Muslim Men must use their earnings to support their family. It was because of this that, in Afghanistan and other Muslim countries, they passed a law forbidding women to work as a means of helping their unemployment rate. This, in turn, lead to young men in the family being forced to prostitute themselves out in order to support their mothers and sisters.

GWW doesn’t understand shit about the conservative strains of Islam – the kind that I’ve been exposed to for years as an ex-Muslim. Even though wives are allowed to work, they are still supposed to be controlled by their husbands. They are also often barred from having any socioeconomic agency on the grounds that they are a “temptation” to male coworkers. If a wife is allowed to work, it will be with her husband’s permission only.

Of course, not all strains of Islam are like this, but the fact that MRAs are actually saying this is female privilege while also arguing that Islam represents “true patriarchy” is terribly ironic.

Asixpack,
If you want to everyone to take you seriously you should refrain from referring to men as ‘men’ and women as ‘females’ in the same sentences. You also shouldn’t say ‘pussy privilege is real’ because it reduces women to nothing more than our genitals.

On that note, it’s time to for GoT. I have to watch Daenerys kick some slaver ass.