Categories
a voice for men a woman is always to blame antifeminism are these guys 12 years old? consent is hard creepy drama kings entitled babies evil moms imaginary oppression incoherent rage men created civilization men invented everything men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA not-quite-explicit threats playing the victim rape culture sexual assault straw feminists women shouldn't work

6 Memes from A Voice for Men, and What They Really Mean

avfmmemes
Memes, memes everywhere, and not a drop of sense.

A Voice for Men seems to have gone a bit meme-crazy. The site’s official Pinterest page, which seems to be fairly new, is loaded up with 374 memes on such subjects as Sexual Politics, False Accusations, MGTOW, and of course Feminism.

It’s not clear how many of these memes were created by the AVFM “Meme Team” and how many were simply grabbed from the internet. But a number of the memes are emblazoned with the A Voice for Men name and/or logo, so I think it’s fair to say that these, at least, are “official” AVFM memes.

Going through these memes, one thing about them becomes clear very quickly: most of them seem to convey messages that are often considerably different than those their creators seem to have intended.

So here, without further ado, here are 6 AVFM memes and what they really mean.

1) MEN SOLVE PROBLEMS

avfmmensolvingpeoblems

menciv

 

 

What this meme purports to say: These two variations on the same meme might (charitably) be interpreted to mean that we should honor the historical achievements of men.

What this meme really says: Men are superior to women. Suck it up, dumb bitches!

2) TODAY HE WOULD BE CALLED A RAPIST

avfmnursekiss

 

What this meme purports to say: Feminist ideologues have so corrupted the notion of rape that is has become ridiculous.

What this meme really says: We basically don’t understand what consent is. Why shouldn’t a dude be allowed to just go kiss a woman on the mouth without her permission?

3) THANKS FOR NOTHING, FEMINISM!

femswap

What this meme purports to say: Feminism has conned women into giving up the joys of motherhood for the sorrows of wage labor

What this meme really says: We believe in a magical prefeminist fairyland in which all mothers were young, beautiful middle class women whose husbands could afford to support them while they raised children. There was no such thing as the working class, or women working in factory jobs, before feminism. Also, we basically think women shouldn’t have jobs, though we get mad at housewives for “leeching” off their husbands all the time, too.

4) COMMITTED TO FAIRNESS IN FAMILY COURTS

badmom

What this meme purports to say: Judges should not automatically assume that mothers will make better parents than fathers.

What this meme really says: We hate women, and love to laugh at them, and think that if any woman anywhere behaves badly it reflects poorly on all women due to the transitive property of women being terrible bitches.

5) BAN BOSSY?

bossy

 

What this meme purports to say: We oppose the #BanBossy campaign, for some reason.

What this meme really says: We hate women with any power in the world. We also hate little girls.

6) FEMINISTS WON’T STOP UNTIL WE MAKE THEM

heel

shoveit

 

What these related memes purport to say: These two memes suggest that feminism is a vicious, violent ideology that must be strongly opposed.

What these memes really say: We like to portray ourselves as victims of feminist violence, even if we have to imagine it, because that gives us a justification to indulge in wild fantasies of violent “retribution” that for some reason involve fists being shoved into women’s orifices.

COMING SOON: An arbitrary number of A Voice for Men memes that make no fucking sense.

EDIT: Proofreading fixes.

 

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

224 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Bina
Bina
6 years ago

It shows a bunch of examples of how young men are “fucked” in the dating world, where similarly-afflicted women get along fine, I guess.

Meanwhile, if it said “You’re FUCKED” under the female sign across the board, it would be completely accurate.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

@ kittehserf

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/04/18/peaches-geldof-funeral-easter-monday-church-paula-yates_n_5171789.html

On the other issue that seems to be taking over yet another thread…

katz
6 years ago

Sorry, but once “molesting children isn’t so bad” becomes part of your argument, the little nuances of the other parts of your argument are pretty much irrelevant.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
6 years ago

kittehs – the young woman with the stroller is Peaches Geldof (daughter of Bob). While out walking with her son Astala a couple of years ago, she hit a pothole on the sidewalk. The pram tipped and dumped her baby, but he landed on the hood and was fine, if a little startled. She got a lot of flak in the press because paparazzi captured the whole incident and she never dropped her cell phone. There was a lot of huffing about “a REAL mother would have….”

Just about every parent has some incident like that happen – a baby rolls off a bed or changing table, a carrier tips over, a toddler falls out of their crib, the baby gate at the top of the stairs accidentally gets left open. It doesn’t mean the parents are narcissistic or neglectful. People love to rush to judgment and claim that they, of course, would have reacted totally differently in that situation, because they, of course, are perfect and always react correctly to every situation. There’s a lot of backseat mothers out there.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

@ katz

Yeah, I’m trying to take my own advice here, but I’m really not feeling all that inclined to cut people who describe the argument that teaching your kids about hell is worse than molesting them as “kinda screwed up” all that much slack.

katz
6 years ago

(With the important caveat that if he wasn’t trying to say that molestation isn’t really that bad and he just got misquoted or was being unclear, then by all means, correct that. But he’s repeated that sentiment several times in various contexts and it’s pretty clear that that’s exactly what he means.)

Lili Fugit
Lili Fugit
6 years ago

1) I don’t get the #BanBossy one, because it looks exactly like a meme the actual lame #BanBossy campaign, or whatever Sheryl Sandberg thinks it is, would use.

I’m inclined to embrace bossy, and bossiness in all of its many forms, and so much more agree with bell hooks and her hashtag response, which was #bossyandproud. And which should definitely disturb misogynists WAY more.

2) Camille Paglia is a racist piece of shit. So are MRAs. They’d get along brilliantly.

3) And also as someone who had both the Rapture and Hell thrown at me as a child, yeah, it’s fucking abusive to do that to children. You are messing up their minds and scaring them, and unlike fairy tales, which have the useful point of teaching children that monsters and evil can be defeated, there is Zero about the western abrahamic religions that is not, in fact, horrifying abusive. And when you are a girl child, yes, there are things in those religions that are absolutely tantamount to mild molestation. When you get taught that boys will be boys and he just likes you when he hits you and you are a girl so be nice and small and don’t fight, yeah. You’re being abused. You’re being taught to be abused. (And for those who got taught those things in a non-religious context, I’ll just remark that our entire society has been influenced, in America, by a book in which boy children are valued, women are raped and the rapists are excused, girls are unclean and cause uncleanliness from birth, and women and children are to be quiet.)

Now I don’t think Dawkins is a great guy, and he can also be a misogynist of the first water, but he is totally not wrong when it comes to western religion, and all the things that are core to those religions. Christians/Muslims/and Jews can liberalize and modernize and ignore and pick and choose things out of their books until the cows come home, those religions inherently hate women, period. And there is an argument to be made that the basis of most modern misogyny is absolutely religious.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

That article from Dawkins about how he was sort of molested and he didn’t let it bother him was pretty much the final straw as far as my having any time for him as a human being. He’s intelligent, no doubt about that, but he’s a pretty awful person.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Also, as someone whose mother was actually abused, in a very direct, sexual, non-figurative way that affected her for the rest of her life, I’m going to have to bow out of this conversation before I start to get nastier than David will allow, because if anyone tries to tell me that what happened to my mother was on a par with, or less of a big deal than, being subjected to, say, standard Catholic teachings about hell, I’m going to have a really hard time not punching them right in the teeth.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

Please, no. Please not the religions/beliefs/theist/atheists thing again, I beg you. This gets personal too quickly because you attacking what people believe, what is core to themselves.

katz
6 years ago

(And for those who got taught those things in a non-religious context, I’ll just remark that our entire society has been influenced, in America, by a book in which boy children are valued, women are raped and the rapists are excused, girls are unclean and cause uncleanliness from birth, and women and children are to be quiet.)

…Setting aside that you clearly know fuckall about religion, did you seriously just make the argument “if a non-religious person teaches a child something misogynistic in a non-religious context, then it’s still religion’s fault?”

Look, I could offer you a rebuttal, but you’ve just crapped out a giant pile of unsubstantiated claims. You could go bring us an equally giant pile of citations if you wanted to be taken seriously, but you just want a stick to beat religion with. So go have fun.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

And @Lili Fugit, you are generalising your experience of religious teaching.

And please don’t tell other people what they can choose to believe or not. Or I will start telling you how fucking insulting that is.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

Sometimes I think we need an “open thread for religion wank”, to which these discussions can be moved when they crop up.

But I would like to ask: what is it that bothers folks about this topic? Is it the repetitiveness? The way nothing seems to get resolved? Boredom? I’m just wondering where y’all are coming from.

Leum
Leum
6 years ago

Now I don’t think Dawkins is a great guy, and he can also be a misogynist of the first water, but he is totally not wrong when it comes to western religion, and all the things that are core to those religions. Christians/Muslims/and Jews can liberalize and modernize and ignore and pick and choose things out of their books until the cows come home, those religions inherently hate women, period. And there is an argument to be made that the basis of most modern misogyny is absolutely religious.

Religions don’t exist apart from their believers. There is no Platonic form of Christianity, Islam, or Judaism that exists irrespective of how actual Christians, Muslims, and Jews (or any other religious believers) practice their religion. You cannot, cannot determine what a religion “truly” believes except by talking to the people who practice it.

Leum
Leum
6 years ago

Hey! I used blockquote! WTF?

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

I know people who were legitimately traumatized by or abused with the threat of Hell, but I’m not touching the “which is worse” question with a ten-foot pole, because there’s literally nothing good to be gained from ranking abuses.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

All of the above, plus the fact that people have been repeatedly asked to drop it and refused to do so, which is a shitty way to behave.

Ally S
6 years ago

But I would like to ask: what is it that bothers folks about this topic? Is it the repetitiveness? The way nothing seems to get resolved? Boredom? I’m just wondering where y’all are coming from.

All of those are reasons I get annoyed with these discussions, but the thing that bothers me the most is that the atheist derailers are typically so smug and prejudiced towards religious folks here.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

@emilygoddess As above plus it inevitably get s personal. THat troll spotted our achilles heel – drop a weak atheist video onto the thread, watch us demolish it but also hit a few of our atheist friends’ sore spots, ‘causing them to feel attacked & want to justify themselves which then rebounds onto theists and round and round it goes. A whole mass of friendly fire with everyone hurting by the end of it..

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

Totally off topic but has anyone else been watching the Dragon spacecraft? In the Uk, we had a great view of the ISS flying over, this evening, with Dragon in hot pursuit.

Sorry – it was the astronaut picture reminded me …

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

Would the thread accept my apologies if I included this video of Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart playing “The Newlywed Game”?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Not only that, people repeatedly bang on about “the defenders of religion” with apparently blithe indifference to the fact that most of the people asking them to ease up on the smugness are other atheists.

But basically the dynamic seems to unfold as follows.

Person A : BTW, religion is horrible. Let me splain.

Person B : Could you not? It’s a bit of a touchy subject here, as we’ve discussed before. You remember, that last time where you were asked to drop it and eventually agreed to do so?

Person A : I know you just asked me not to, but let me splain some more.

Person C : Watch me pay no attention to what everyone else has been saying. Splainey splainey splain.

Person D : Ugh, not this again.

Persons B and C : Do you religious people not understand how wrong you are? I know you already said you were atheists, but I’m allergic to listening and I don’t care if I’m annoying people. Splainey splainey splain.

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

But I would like to ask: what is it that bothers folks about this topic? Is it the repetitiveness? The way nothing seems to get resolved? Boredom? I’m just wondering where y’all are coming from.

All of it. Plus, like titianblue said, the smug coming off some of my fellow atheists drives me up the fucking wall. I don’t particularly care if some someone’s religious or atheist, I really don’t care to hear much about either.

damarismarie
damarismarie
6 years ago

@kittehserf

the late Peaches Geldof

Ally S
6 years ago

@cassandrakitty

Also, as someone whose mother was actually abused, in a very direct, sexual, non-figurative way that affected her for the rest of her life, I’m going to have to bow out of this conversation before I start to get nastier than David will allow, because if anyone tries to tell me that what happened to my mother was on a par with, or less of a big deal than, being subjected to, say, standard Catholic teachings about hell, I’m going to have a really hard time not punching them right in the teeth.

:: hugs ::

I’m sorry that you’ve found this argument upsetting.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

If it was a conversation where a mutually agreeable resolution was possible I might feel differently, but it isn’t. Which pretty much leaves us with one section of the commentariat randomly going “btw I think you’re a fucking idiot who’s devoting your life to the source of all evil, just thought you should know” to another section of the community at regular intervals. Perhaps there’s something I’m missing, but that doesn’t seem like a particularly useful way to interact with one’s fellow community members.

melody
6 years ago

http://www.amazon.com/How-Restore-Sanity-Political-Conversations/dp/1935758063

I found the above book helpful for conversations like these, but it is hard to utilize.

shaihalood
shaihalood
6 years ago

I remember visiting AVFM and seeing how they were trying to recruit mememakers. They’re entire plan hinges on an internet campaign of soundbites that cater to the short attention spans of rewired brains for the computer age. Do you think it will find them more converts or people will join them and it will be only a passing phase, as they don’t really care about anything but anti-feminism?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I think most people will just be confused as to what they’re trying to get at with the memes, honestly. Other than the primal scream of rage towards women element, which comes across quite clearly, nobody who isn’t already familiar with the MRM is going to have any idea what they’re going on about.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

It kind of reminds me of when the GOP was trying to rally young people against Obamacare by making wannabe Buzzfeed listicles and memes. http://secure.isidewith.com/news/article/the-new-house-republican-web-strategy-copy-buzzfeed

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

Aaaand the GOP continues not to understand the internet. Why not just create content ON BUZZFEED? Or a Twitter hashtag or something? Bring the content to where people already are, or you’ll end up preaching to the converted.

katz
6 years ago

But I would like to ask: what is it that bothers folks about this topic? Is it the repetitiveness? The way nothing seems to get resolved? Boredom? I’m just wondering where y’all are coming from.

As the token religious person, well, it’s just mean and insulting. There are actual discussions about actual topics, and then there’s shit like “there is Zero about the western abrahamic religions that is not, in fact, horrifying abusive.” Nobody wants to have to argue against the proposition “everything about your cultural heritage sucks and so do you for being part of it.”

And then there’s just how random and off-topic it usually is. When people bring it up out of the blue, like they did here, it smacks of “hey, you know what we can all agree on? How religion sucks! Let’s talk about that!”–that is, of being more of a rallying cry than an actual argument. When it’s brought up by atheists, especially white guy atheists like Dawkins, it feels very much like they’re looking for a group they’re not a part of to blame for Bad Things so that they can claim the moral high ground.

All of this only goes for those really broad, unprovable, nigh-meaningless statements like “religion is the root cause of misogyny.” I am 100% in favor of specific, meaningful discussions of misogyny in religion, even (indeed, especially) when it’s my religion. If the ELCA is up to something bad, I want to know about it! And I’m always interested in topics like, say, how Christian Dominionism influences Schlafly’s views. (It’s just annoying that those topics can so quickly degrade into the “all religion is bad” argument, from which there is no going back.)

katz
6 years ago

If it was a conversation where a mutually agreeable resolution was possible I might feel differently, but it isn’t. Which pretty much leaves us with one section of the commentariat randomly going “btw I think you’re a fucking idiot who’s devoting your life to the source of all evil, just thought you should know” to another section of the community at regular intervals. Perhaps there’s something I’m missing, but that doesn’t seem like a particularly useful way to interact with one’s fellow community members.

And you have totally nailed what I was vaguely fumbling around for.

moldybrehd
6 years ago

The logo on pintrest made me roll my eyes. Are they trying to pick up anarchist points? Or, as my first impression, are they rabid fans of V the series? Cuz if so on the second, do they think of themselves as the lizard people, or feminists?

Which led me back to the creepyPM forums: http://imgur.com/a/qkFvW

kittehserf
6 years ago

Rilian – oy, Dawkins. Someone needs to teach him the first law of holes.

Cassandra, Buttercup – Wow, that just adds to the level of disgust for those creatures. I knew about Peaches Geldof’s death, but not about that picture.

Christians/Muslims/and Jews can liberalize and modernize and ignore and pick and choose things out of their books until the cows come home, those religions inherently hate women, period.

OFFS. That’s basically saying the fundies are right, only literal interpretations of modern editions are right, and only the bad OT shit counts. Yeah, right, let them define the vast mosaic of even one faith, and dismiss everything that’s happened since their fantasy notion of the past.

emilygoddess – I *think* part of it is the Great Divorce, which left a lot of bad feeling, to the point it couldn’t even be talked about except very allusively, until a few months ago. I wasn’t here then. The subject doesn’t really bother me; I confess I am quite ready to jump down asshats’ throats on this subject. Doesn’t really matter if they’re religious asshats or atheist ones, though on a personal level I’ve had more shit from atheist bigots than religious ones. But in neither case do I think they’re representative of their belief/nonbelief group as a whole – something the asshats seem incapable of grasping about The Other. It’s sort of like MRAs, thinking all men are as horrible as they are.

Also what everyone else said already. :/

kittehserf
6 years ago

moldybrehd – that is beyond bizarre. WTF were they even talking about?

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

emilygoddess:

But I would like to ask: what is it that bothers folks about this topic? Is it the repetitiveness? The way nothing seems to get resolved? Boredom? I’m just wondering where y’all are coming from.

All of the above, plus what cassandrakitty said:

If it was a conversation where a mutually agreeable resolution was possible I might feel differently, but it isn’t. Which pretty much leaves us with one section of the commentariat randomly going “btw I think you’re a fucking idiot who’s devoting your life to the source of all evil, just thought you should know” to another section of the community at regular intervals. Perhaps there’s something I’m missing, but that doesn’t seem like a particularly useful way to interact with one’s fellow community members.

That’s why. It’s incredibly unpleasant to be told that an aspect of your life, that is an incredibly important, deep, sustaining aspect of your life, is evil. It is incredibly insulting to be told that, if you happen to share your religious beliefs with your children, that you are abusing them.

I don’t understand all this. I really don’t. Assholes are assholes, whether they’re religious assholes or atheist assholes or agnostic assholes or whatever. It seems pretty simple and easy to be able to call out assholes being assholes without painting a whole swath of people with the same brush.

But that’s what I find so exasperating about this whole conversation.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Plus there’s the ASSumption that you’ve only got to be insulted enough splained to enough enlightened and you’ll become one of those totes rational types like the asshat in question, and that belief is just something you change like you’d change your shoes. The idea that it isn’t like that, or that it’s more than an emotional crutch (and how the asshats love to use that idea, like things that give you comfort and strength are bad and mean you’re weak) never occurs to them. The idea that people can go the other way would probably give ’em an assplosion.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I’m also confused by the idea that being an atheist is an identity in the same way that being a believer is. How can the absence of belief be the organizing principle of your life? And the idea that because I’m an atheist I’m supposed to admire/look up to/respect Dawkins is even weirder. He is a person with whom I share just one thing, a lack of belief in the existence of a deity/ies. Occasionally he says interesting things, often he seems like he needs a good smack with the clue bat, and in general he doesn’t seem like someone who would have my back if I needed it. Why am I supposed to be throwing actual allies under the bus while pretending that he’s my ally, which he has made it quite clear that he is not?

moldybrehd
6 years ago

@kittyserf, sorry, I meant to link the original creepyPM link, but the spiced rum wouldn’t let me, lol. http://www.reddit.com/r/creepyPMs/comments/23b0e3/my_wife_runs_a_popular_science_websitefacebook/

It’s a FB message that I Fucking Love Science gets frequently.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Spiced rum is a powerful thing, lol.

I’m still baffled, not least by why lizard people wouldn’t have legs. Lizards are not generally speaking legless (unless they’ve been into the spiced rum … waitaminute …)

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Aren’t legless reptiles called snakes?

katz
6 years ago

There are legless lizards.

But they aren’t the majority, of course.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Isn’t “legless reptile” the name for the 60 year old man who’s trying to chat you up at the pub when you’re 16 and you sneaked in with your big cousin’s ID?

eli
eli
6 years ago

Apropos of nothing:

Why does my mother keep insisting snakes are slimy? No, mother, they are not slimy. Maybe if they’re sea snakes, but those garter snakes that you freak out about, no.

pecunium
6 years ago

The only thing I am going to say about the religion conversation is that walking up to someone and saying, “I know this holiday you are about to celebrate is important to you, but it’s all based on a pile of shit that makes you complicit in all sorts of things which are nothing but pure evil* and I’m doing it because I think someone, at some time, wasn’t as nice to some atheists as they ought to have been” is a pretty asshole move.

Just sayin’.**

* “there is Zero about the western abrahamic religions that is not, in fact, horrifying abusive.” Is both untrue, and not worth rebutting, because anyone who can say that with a straight face has so completely failed to look at the actual insides of the the huge body of sects which make up the Abrahamic relgions and still feels competent to make sweeping claims; as to make the effort of detailed response not worth it. Been there, done that, and had people (whom one would expect to know better) gloating about being wrong, in the terms of debate they had defined. It’s not worth the candle, save to affect my feelings about the people in future.

** Ok, I ended up saying more than I meant to in the footnote, but as katz and sparky said, being told one is an evil bastard; and in a way which implies that to maintain one’s faith (however tenuously one may maintain affiliation) is to be actively complicit in that evil… grates is too mild a word. It’s offensive. It’s collective guilt. It’s saying that no matter what one’s personal belief, nor the tenets of the faith one adheres to are, the past informs all and yea, unto the nth generation shall they be guilty.

The only absolution is atheism. Which is bullshit.

And that is all I intend to say on that subject, in this thread.

eli
eli
6 years ago

And this atheist just got home from a very long Easter vigil service. It was lovely. And they gave us applause (which is unusual, there were lots of non-regulars there because they had lots of baptisms and new Catholics this time around)

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

If I was to try to describe how snakes feel I’d say…dry and sort of muscly? If your snake feels slimy you should probably take it to the vet.

eli
eli
6 years ago

Yeah, she’s never felt one ever in her life. And insists they must be slimy. There was a green snake at my summer camp that liked to crawl through the belt loops of my jeans.