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a voice for men a woman is always to blame antifeminism are these guys 12 years old? consent is hard creepy drama kings entitled babies evil moms imaginary oppression incoherent rage men created civilization men invented everything men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA not-quite-explicit threats playing the victim rape culture sexual assault straw feminists women shouldn't work

6 Memes from A Voice for Men, and What They Really Mean

avfmmemes
Memes, memes everywhere, and not a drop of sense.

A Voice for Men seems to have gone a bit meme-crazy. The site’s official Pinterest page, which seems to be fairly new, is loaded up with 374 memes on such subjects as Sexual Politics, False Accusations, MGTOW, and of course Feminism.

It’s not clear how many of these memes were created by the AVFM “Meme Team” and how many were simply grabbed from the internet. But a number of the memes are emblazoned with the A Voice for Men name and/or logo, so I think it’s fair to say that these, at least, are “official” AVFM memes.

Going through these memes, one thing about them becomes clear very quickly: most of them seem to convey messages that are often considerably different than those their creators seem to have intended.

So here, without further ado, here are 6 AVFM memes and what they really mean.

1) MEN SOLVE PROBLEMS

avfmmensolvingpeoblems

menciv

 

 

What this meme purports to say: These two variations on the same meme might (charitably) be interpreted to mean that we should honor the historical achievements of men.

What this meme really says: Men are superior to women. Suck it up, dumb bitches!

2) TODAY HE WOULD BE CALLED A RAPIST

avfmnursekiss

 

What this meme purports to say: Feminist ideologues have so corrupted the notion of rape that is has become ridiculous.

What this meme really says: We basically don’t understand what consent is. Why shouldn’t a dude be allowed to just go kiss a woman on the mouth without her permission?

3) THANKS FOR NOTHING, FEMINISM!

femswap

What this meme purports to say: Feminism has conned women into giving up the joys of motherhood for the sorrows of wage labor

What this meme really says: We believe in a magical prefeminist fairyland in which all mothers were young, beautiful middle class women whose husbands could afford to support them while they raised children. There was no such thing as the working class, or women working in factory jobs, before feminism. Also, we basically think women shouldn’t have jobs, though we get mad at housewives for “leeching” off their husbands all the time, too.

4) COMMITTED TO FAIRNESS IN FAMILY COURTS

badmom

What this meme purports to say: Judges should not automatically assume that mothers will make better parents than fathers.

What this meme really says: We hate women, and love to laugh at them, and think that if any woman anywhere behaves badly it reflects poorly on all women due to the transitive property of women being terrible bitches.

5) BAN BOSSY?

bossy

 

What this meme purports to say: We oppose the #BanBossy campaign, for some reason.

What this meme really says: We hate women with any power in the world. We also hate little girls.

6) FEMINISTS WON’T STOP UNTIL WE MAKE THEM

heel

shoveit

 

What these related memes purport to say: These two memes suggest that feminism is a vicious, violent ideology that must be strongly opposed.

What these memes really say: We like to portray ourselves as victims of feminist violence, even if we have to imagine it, because that gives us a justification to indulge in wild fantasies of violent “retribution” that for some reason involve fists being shoved into women’s orifices.

COMING SOON: An arbitrary number of A Voice for Men memes that make no fucking sense.

EDIT: Proofreading fixes.

 

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Z
Z
6 years ago

Pet peeve: It’s “Freethought Blogs”, like in “freethought“.

And I’ll try hard to keep away from the religion/atheism thing.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

I don’t know why I wasted four years and tens of thousands of dollars getting a degree in religious studies, when apparently I could have become an expert on all religions everywhere just by reading The God Delusion. Sometimes I think “this must be what it’s like for someone with a biology background trying to talk to creationists”.

The memes…well, at least they’re getting the hang of getting to the damn point. Often even their “short” arguments are several sentences long. But they’re still having trouble with the idea that not everyone is familiar with their worldview,or that the majority of men don’t see women working as a problem, let alone a form of male oppression. And they’re still resorting to threats of sexualized violence (I eventually realized the fist in the last one is supposed to be shoved up the butt, but that’s not significantly better).

Oh, MRAs. Their ineptitude would be adorable if their ideology weren’t so appalling.

Alan Boyle (@SkepticalNumber)

I’m an atheist, a fairly passionate one for many years, and I’ve never picked up any anti-atheist vibes from manboobz. That said, atheism (particularly online) has a problem with prominent misogyny. The Amazing Atheist, which is a depressingly popular YouTube channel, is 50 percent anti-feminist BS. The people sending threats to Rebecca Watson ain’t doing it in the name of Jesus. There’s a reason the fedora-based MRA stereotype overlaps with the fedora-based atheist stereotype. Hell, Paul Elam self-identifies as an atheist.

So even if atheists did get a bad rap in anti-misogyny camps, well, we really need to just get over it until our house is in order, because it’s hardly undeserved.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I’ve never had anyone here personally attack me for being atheist because I haven’t picked on anyone for their beliefs. It does seem trendy these days on the left to atheist bash though. Even atheists are doing it. I don’t think it’s necessary to defend progressive minded theists by saying things like “so many of the nicest people are religious and so many atheists are assholes!” It happens a lot.

It reminds me of when people comfort small breasted women who are picked on for it by saying “at least your boobs won’t get all saggy and gross!” It might not be meant as an attack on large breasted women, but effectively, it is.

It’s always best to avoid tearing down one group while defending another. Especially since in conservative religious communities atheists are a very marginalized group. For some people, the internet might be the only place they can be an out atheist and progressive sites should be a safe place for that IMO.

katz
6 years ago

I don’t think it’s necessary to defend progressive minded theists by saying things like “so many of the nicest people are religious and so many atheists are assholes!” It happens a lot.

Seconding this.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Maybe there should be a specific term for asshole misogynist atheists. If you say fundamentalists or the religious right, everyone knows you’re speaking of a particular type of religious person. It’s clear it’s not a blanket statement covering all theists.

When someone says asshole atheist or internet atheist, it just sounds like they’re talking about all atheists, even if they aren’t.

Maybe something like reactionary atheist would work?

Fibinachi
6 years ago

I’m an atheist, and I don’t recall anyone here ever chastizing me for that. The only thing I ever have been chastized for is being needlessly verbose and meandering on, which is valid and true.

So I’m with hellkell. We chastize assholes – pretending we’re some kind of bastion of anti-atheism is just… weird. Let’s not go there.

pineapplecookies
pineapplecookies
6 years ago

Hey, Ally, may I use your line?

There is a difference between “All theists and religious people are deluded assholes who want the world to return to the Stone Age” and “I hate religion used as a tool of oppression.”

It expresses very well what I was thinking the other day and I just couldn’t formulate it.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Would “assholists” do? That’s the term I use…

markb
markb
6 years ago

So if women don’t work, they’re sponging off of men, and if they do work, they’re giving up their “natural” role as mothers, at which they apparently suck. Message received loud and clear.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
6 years ago

That last slogan reallllly didn’t need to be illustrated. Yeesh.

I checked out the board, and it’s a cesspit. (Surprise, surprise.). Most of their pins violate the Pinterest TOS, which forbids hate speech, bullying, harassment, and graphic or violent images. Pinterest is supposed to be a safe space. It’s likely many of their users are victims of rape or domestic abuse, who would be triggered if one of these pins showed up on their front page. That’s probably why they created the board – why else would they post on a site used heavily by women?

What a bunch of creepy assholes. Hopefully they’ll get reported often enough that Pinterest will outright ban them.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
6 years ago

And if/when they do get banned, they’ll rage about freeze peaches and indulge in martyrbation instead of reflecting that perhaps their message isn’t palatable to mainstream society.

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
6 years ago

“Men invented the wheel, but don’t you women dare build anything in factories! Go home and have babies, you incompetent bad parenting bitches! And what do you mean you don’t want to be grabbed and tongued on the street by some random dude? MISANDRY!!!”

Haha, that pretty much sums up the memes nicely.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Most of their pins violate the Pinterest TOS, which forbids hate speech, bullying, harassment, and graphic or violent images. Pinterest is supposed to be a safe space. It’s likely many of their users are victims of rape or domestic abuse, who would be triggered if one of these pins showed up on their front page. That’s probably why they created the board – why else would they post on a site used heavily by women?

Oh ghaaaaah. >smacks forehead<

I feel like going in there and repinning all those under a new header: Ugly-Ass Toxic Masculist Woman-Hating Crapaganda. Enter At Your Own Risk!

Think they'd get the message?

leatapp
leatapp
6 years ago

My thought Exactly Buttercup Q. Skullpants. They went to Pintrest because that’s where they can find plenty of women to bother.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

OMG, just get a load of the Gothic script on their blood-smeary logo, too. Are we mascu-Nazis, or just some dipshit kid writing ugly graffiti in the back alleys? Both!

Ally S
6 years ago

@WWTH

I don’t think it’s necessary to defend progressive minded theists by saying things like “so many of the nicest people are religious and so many atheists are assholes!” It happens a lot.

Mainstream atheism has become what many see as a gateway to rational thought and freedom. It is a platform on which bigots of all varieties get to have their views granted a kind of legitimacy stemming from the notion that anything that isn’t religious is automatically rational and morally superior.

Pointing out the nice religious people and the bigoted atheists doesn’t help stop the self-righteous, arrogant attacks from mainstream atheists. I agree. But it at least helps to dispel the notion that mainstream atheism itself is some kind of morally and philosophically superior ideology.

BTW, “reactionary atheism” is an awesome term.

@pineapplecookies

Go ahead!

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

BlackStar6 posts wildly off-topic article about how atheists are not a monolith. Treats religion as a sexist monolith. Fail! Bonus fail for complaining about “chastisement” that has not occurred.

I’m just now noticing that last one is an x-ray of a pelvis. That is…that is some very violent imagery right there. Some very disturbing, violent imagery. Yay human rights movement!

Fibinachi
6 years ago

Mainstream atheism has become what many see as a gateway to rational thought and freedom. It is a platform on which bigots of all varieties get to have their views granted a kind of legitimacy stemming from the notion that anything that isn’t religious is automatically rational and morally superior.

Not morally superior, just grounded in “rationality” and “logic” which is obviously better than – “emotional reasoning” and “Silly superstitions”, and then it functions as a defensive magic trick, where, because the person making the argument is supposedly so rational and logical and clever, the argument being made must be rational, logical and clever. So someone (say, AA), gets to slide in horrible fucking shit because, hey, he’s normally against all that “silly religious stuff”.

What’s that Howard Bannister quote I like?

Dunning-Kruger poster boy.

Yeah, that’s it.

“Women have no souls” is now “Women have a dearth of the enzyome responsible for humanity longevity”. Progress.

Viscaria
Viscaria
6 years ago

Found a picture under their MGTOW board, somewhat at random: http://www.pinterest.com/pin/446208275553281992/

It shows a bunch of examples of how young men are “fucked” in the dating world, where similarly-afflicted women get along fine, I guess.

The first issue for young men that is not an issue for young women is shyness, because if a woman is shy, “he” will ask her out, so no problem! Of course it doesn’t say who the fuck “he” is; just, like, some random dude I guess? Are men all interchangeable, so it doesn’t actually matter which guy it is?

Second issue is money. He may be fucked if he’s got no money, but she’s fine, because he will buy dinner. Oh boy! That will be great for that single free meal. Poverty solved.

All of the other ones amount to “these personality traits/interests/life goals might be unattractive in a man, but if you’re a woman he won’t give a damn about who you are as a person. He will even lie to you by pretending to care about the things you care about, if it might allow him to have sex with you.” Lucky ladies!

Karak
Karak
6 years ago

I… Don’t see an issue with the woman who’s out with her child, overburdened with stuff, and the stroller tipped. I mean I guess there’s some meta context, but shit happens.

The #banbossy one makes no sense either. It’s a girl with a frown. The poster seems to say she’s angry about being not allowed to lead, and conveys the exact opposite message.

Seriously do these people understand anything about visual rhetoric?

Ally S
6 years ago

@Fibinachi

Not morally superior, just grounded in “rationality” and “logic” which is obviously better than – “emotional reasoning” and “Silly superstitions”, and then it functions as a defensive magic trick, where, because the person making the argument is supposedly so rational and logical and clever, the argument being made must be rational, logical and clever. So someone (say, AA), gets to slide in horrible fucking shit because, hey, he’s normally against all that “silly religious stuff”.

Their fixation on “rationality” and “logic” certainly plays a role in their attempts to justify their bigotry, but I do think that there is still an element of self-righteousness. Think about the atheists out there who say that religion is the Ultimate Evil or that the world would be necessarily more peaceful without religion. Their conception of religion as evil incarnate allows them to say things like “I’m not sexist! If you want to know what real sexism is, look at Islam.”

Rilian
Rilian
6 years ago

They’re the ones who police tone.

katz
6 years ago

Viscaria: I love it. I don’t know where to start!

No friends: Because the only reason not having friends might be a problem is if your SO doesn’t like it. And because she totally wants to hang out with this guy’s dudebro friends. And this doesn’t sound at all like the guy is planning on isolating the girl from her friends…

Expected to be boring is somehow a Good Thing.

Obscure interests: Because no woman has ever pretended to be interested in a guy’s interests. And because nobody could ever, you know, actually get interested in someone else’s interests.

And appearance is conspicuously absent from this spreadsheet…

Viscaria
Viscaria
6 years ago

Matchmaker, matchmaker, make me a match, find me a find, catch me a catch who finds me boring and has no interest in any aspect of my life, but who will pay for my salad with chèvre and cranberries.

Viscaria
Viscaria
6 years ago

They just love attacking young women with very little power, don’t they? University students are their favourite targets.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

The “grass huts” poster rubs me wrong in not just a sexist way, but I can’t put my finger on it.

Could it be because they quoted a female misogynist who styles herself as a “proto-feminist”? And because they, like Camille Paglia (ugh) are all severely irony-impaired?

Octo
Octo
6 years ago

@Ally S

When we “chastise” atheists here, it’s because they’re being jerks who want to portray all religion as monolithic […]

I hope you realize the irony in what you’ve written.

Their conception of religion as evil incarnate allows them to say things like “I’m not sexist! If you want to know what real sexism is, look at Islam.”

Something Christians would never do…

@emily

I don’t know why I wasted four years and tens of thousands of dollars getting a degree in religious studies, when apparently I could have become an expert on all religions everywhere just by reading The God Delusion.

Do religious studies even touch on the subject on whether god/gods even exist in the first place? I think they just, well, study the religions which believe so. But The God Delusion is in fact about why you don’t need gods and why they probably don’t exist. Dawkins has also said a lot of shit, but The God Delusion is a good book.

And no, nobody is chastising atheists here. But it seems to me atheis*m* is getting a lot of flak, while every time *religion* is only slightly criticized, there’s a cohort appearing to defend the concept.

And while I don’t think religion is “evil incarnate” or the reason for everything bad in the world, I do think the world would be better off without it, yes. It’s not “evil incarnate”, but it is, overall, a net negative factor.

dustydeste
dustydeste
6 years ago

I also love how it starts off with the critique of her clothes. Her clothes that you… can’t really see because she’s holding a big ol’ sign on front of her. I mean, from what I can see, she looks like she’s wearing an outfit similar to my friends and I in college… My college friends and I who shopped pretty much only at thrift stores.

Maybe it’s the scarf, though. I hear big scarves are one of the [arbitrary number] fashion trends men hate.

Octo
Octo
6 years ago

“Today he would be called a rapist” – well, rightly so, no?

Also, this argument about men having built civilization… that’s just so dickish. For millennia, women were excluded from most posts in administration, philosophy, engineering, the sciences and so on. Men made sure *by force* that *only* they could build civilization… and now (other) men want to claim credit for that?

And apparently, giving women the *choice* between family and career (or maybe both) is not helping them. But men of course should have the choice between parenting and job. And, hah, the poster against “banbossy” is showing *exactly* how ‘bossy’ is a gendered insult based on an obnoxious double standard.

Finally, funny how openly they are against feminism… yet they claim to simply be for equal rights. Yeah sure. That also explains they’re “back to the kitchen” posters: They’re just for equal rights.

10knives
10knives
6 years ago

“Just a suggestion, though, guys? If you’re aiming to convince people that you’re not a hate movement you might want to pick a logo that looks a bit less like it was scrawled on a wall in blood. Doesn’t exactly say “we’re nice, reasonable, trustworthy people, we are”.”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU

Luzbelitx
6 years ago

@Anachronist

6) “Is this the setup for some weird fetish porn scene?”

Well… maybe that’s their issue,

Maybe they are not just dudes who hate women while still given boners by them.

Maybe they (or some of them) have this huge submission fantasies, and their brains go: “I hate women, and I hate that they rule the world while it also makes me horny as hell so… MOAR HATE”

damarismarie
damarismarie
6 years ago

The young woman with the spilled baby stroller accident just died on April 7th at the age of 25. Beyond vile on the part of AVFM to use that. Disgusting & despicable.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Maybe they’re just hoping that if they pester enough feminists they’ll eventually find Elsa the sexy Nazi from Indiana Jones.

tinyorc
6 years ago

auggzilliary:

The “grass huts” poster rubs me wrong in not just a sexist way, but I can’t put my finger on it.

Possibly because it implies that living in a grass hut is inherently inferior and less civilised than living in a big concrete apartment block, and therefore is actively insulting to all the indigenous and tribal peoples who still choose to live in this way?

That bothers me because in my opinion the whole civilised/primitive dichotomy is bullshit. Like, don’t get me wrong, I’m a fan of electricity and running water, but I don’t think that makes me superior to people who don’t have/use those things. In fact, I think people who live in grass huts have it right in the long-run, because their way of life is actually sustainable, while “civilised” folk are gobbling up the planet’s finite resources at a terrifying rate.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

That racism analogy (created by a trilby wearer of course) is such a fail. Men are the privileged group. Black people are not. A more appropriate analogy would be something more along the lines of Whitetip: Remember not to stalk and shoot a black teenager walking home from the convenience store.

tinyorc
6 years ago

Viscaria:

All of the other ones amount to “these personality traits/interests/life goals might be unattractive in a man, but if you’re a woman he won’t give a damn about who you are as a person. He will even lie to you by pretending to care about the things you care about, if it might allow him to have sex with you.” Lucky ladies!

Hahaha. So according to AVFM, men in general don’t give a shit about a women life, ambitions or personality… but it’s still the men who are “fucked” when it comes to dating. Riiiiight.

Like seriously, why would I (or, you know, anyone) want to date someone who doesn’t give a shit about my future plans, who never asks about the other people in my life, who expects me to be boring, who fakes interest in the stuff I care about and doesn’t care if I never speak as long as I look pretty.

Misters, I think the reason you might be “fucked” is that you don’t actually want to date another human, you want to date a girl-shaped object that breathes and make “mmhmm” noises at the right moments. I can’t believe they don’t understand how dehumanising that list is.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

The “grass huts” poster rubs me wrong in not just a sexist way, but I can’t put my finger on it.

It’s awfully similar to the “black people should be grateful for slavery, ’cause if we’d left them in Africa they’d be living in mud huts” line.

When we “chastise” atheists here, it’s because they’re being jerks who want to portray all religion as monolithic […]

I hope you realize the irony in what you’ve written.

What irony? You may be misreading her.

Do religious studies even touch on the subject on whether god/gods even exist in the first place?

Definitely not. It’s (ideally) an objective study of a social/anthropological phenomenon.

…But The God Delusion is in fact about why you don’t need gods and why they probably don’t exist. Dawkins has also said a lot of shit, but The God Delusion is a good book.

From what I recall, It’s also about why religion is terrible and possibly even the worst thing in the world (isn’t that the book where he says that raising a child to be religious is abuse?). But my issue isn’t so much with The God Delusion itself, as with the people who think that having read it makes them an expert on a subject that, in fact, they know very little about. The God Delusion, and many of its fans, uses Abrahamic religions as a stand-in for religion in general and handwaves the rest away. Then people come in here, or wherever, and say things like “religion oppresses women” or “religion is anti-science” or conflate “religion” with “Christianity” or something similarly reductive and incorrect.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Reading that book also apparently causes people to continually forget the first rule of holes.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

@Octo, please can you let this go?

@Ally S

When we “chastise” atheists here, it’s because they’re being jerks who want to portray all religion as monolithic […]

I hope you realize the irony in what you’ve written.

There was no irony. Ally wasn’t imply that atheists are monolith. She is stating that the atheists that have been chastised here have been chastised because they were being jerks. At that particular time. With what they were saying.

katz
6 years ago

A girl is wearing a coat, jeans, and a scarf and doesn’t have an inch of skin showing. Aaand they still criticize her outfit.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

It just reminded me of those racist arguments about how people who live in huts are naturally stupid. Racists seem to always use “grass huts” as an example of the most primitive society.

Huh. And yet, when that big earthquake hit Kobe, Japan, several years ago, one of the few buildings to emerge completely unscathed was a Buddhist temple built entirely of bamboo.

Bamboo is a grass.

Yes, that’s right: Grass huts are more earthquake-proof than “civilization”.

(And you’re right about the racism, too. Paglia can fucking bite me.)

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

I like how she’s apparently “smug” in that picture. But they think every woman the see is “smug”, as far as I can tell.

Rilian
Rilian
6 years ago

emilygoddess

Dawkins actually did not say that it’s abuse to teach a child a religion, he said it’s abuse to tell a child they ARE (for example) christian. He said it would be like telling a child, you are a democrat or you are a republican.

At least that’s what I’ve heard him say, correcting people’s alleged misconception.

katz
6 years ago

Dawkins actually did not say that it’s abuse to teach a child a religion, he said it’s abuse to tell a child they ARE (for example) christian. He said it would be like telling a child, you are a democrat or you are a republican.

At least that’s what I’ve heard him say, correcting people’s alleged misconception.

He said it was abuse to teach a child about Hell. And he said that raising a child to be a certain religion was worse than molesting them. FFS.

kittehserf
6 years ago

The young woman with the spilled baby stroller accident just died on April 7th at the age of 25. Beyond vile on the part of AVFM to use that. Disgusting & despicable.

damarismarie, that’s so sad – do you know any more about it that you are willing to tell?

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
6 years ago

I feel like going in there and repinning all those under a new header: Ugly-Ass Toxic Masculist Woman-Hating Crapaganda. Enter At Your Own Risk!

I triple dog dare ya!

@Viscaria That dating chart is absurd. It’s basically saying “we don’t care about any women’s traits except what they look like”, and then complaining that women get a free pass on every trait except looks. Who’s giving them the pass in the first place? They’re like someone who stands in front of a theater handing out free tickets, then getting mad at the ticketholders because they didn’t have to pay to get in.

It’s also pretty misandric to imply that men are so undiscerning that any set of hobbies, job, friends, education, and personality will do, because women are all identical and interchangeable.

kittehserf
6 years ago

At least that’s what I’ve heard him say, correcting people’s alleged misconception.

::snort:: Sounds like Dawkins is having another communication fail, aka backpedalling furiously. For a writer, he seems oddly unaware that people can go back and read what he wrote.

Octo
Octo
6 years ago

Okay, Ally in that statement I quoted might have meant particular asshole atheists, but it started off a conversation in which the atheist movement as a whole was kinda portrayed as self-righteous.

He said it was abuse to teach a child about Hell. And he said that raising a child to be a certain religion was worse than molesting them. FFS.

What he said, at least in The God Delusion, was that putting the fear of hell in a child is child abuse, because it can leave lasting psychological harm. And yes, he did call that worse than “mild” forms of child molestation. Which is kinda screwed up. But I think his main point concerning children and religion, at least in The God Delusion, was that it is silly to speak of “Christian children” or “Jewish children” or “Muslim children” or whatever just because their families are – in his opinion it makes as much sense as speaking of “Keynesian children” or “Marxist children” or “Neo-liberal children”.

I don’t at all agree with his relativation of child molestation, and I don’t even think you can call the hell thing abuse. But I do think it’s a bad thing regardless, and I do think that if you think about it, applying religious identities to children is kinda as silly as applying economical schools to them.