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It's "Get On Your Knees and Thank a White Man Day" in the Men's Rights subreddit [UPDATED]

King Leopold of Belgium brought the gift of death to ten million Africans
King Leopold of Belgium brought the gift of death to ten million Africans

 

NOTE TO AVFM READERS: See UPDATE 2 at bottom of post.

Over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, a dude named unkleman wants us all to remember the debt of gratitude we owe to the white men of the world:

 

unkleman 27 points 21 hours ago (42|15)  You should ask her if she is ashamed of the burden of original sin or should blacks feel like the burdened sons of Cain.  Here is my response to that attitude, but it is sure to inflame further-  People are quick to blame white people for historic wrongs, but that is because they developed technology in more barbaric times. Do you think the Zulus would have been more kind with muskets? For every white person you want to unload on for historic wrongs, you need to get on your knees and thank a hundred first for the renaissance, the age of exploration, the industrial revolution, the atomic age, and the information age we live in. Take a look at your life and ask yourself how much of current civilization would exist if not for the white man. For all I know, whites are the only reason that we all are not currently as barbaric as the very people that are decried with rants against historic wrongs. These accomplishments have given you the luxury to decry the effort they were built upon and you would have been no better but for what the founders of this world have allowed you, so allow them the thanks you owe in spades.

This message went over pretty well with the overwhelmingly white, overwhelmingly male, overwhelmingly self-pitying and self-congratulatory and maybe just an eensy teensy weensy bit racist demo in the Men’s Rights subreddit. I guess it pays to know your audience!

Men’s Rights and White Supremacy: two … tastes that go together.

Thanks to the folks in the AgainstMensRights subreddit for pointing me to this lovely comment.

UPDATE: Apparently, Unkleman’s comment was meant as sarcasm. That is, while he seems to think that his version of history is accurate, he thinks that the notion that individual white people today deserve credit for things other white people did in the past is stupid.

Interestingly, when he pointed out that this was what he actually meant, he got downvoted below zero, a stark contrast to the reception his original comment got. Take a look:

ishm 5 points 1 day ago (10|5)  I am in agreement with the majority of your statement!  But the "owe to white men" stanza going on for a multitude of sentences triggered negative feelings in me. I do not believe we "owe it to white men", yet I would be much more complacent with "we should appreciate the MEN and WOMEN who discovered them". Owe should be excluded as there was no damned contract signed. Minorities and other whites do not owe anything to whites who discovered various technologies. Appreciate is the word you meant I hope.      permalink     save     parent     report     give gold     reply  [–]unkleman -1 points 1 day ago (4|5)  Yeah, it was entirely meant to stir negative feelings and the premise is ridiculous. It is just the other side of the coin of the thought process for people who use such excuses to be "politically correct" racists and meant to show that their justifications should lead to a reverse conclusion.  If I actually believed I am owed kudos for racial reasons, one should assume that I literally have nothing else going for me in life and that would be sad.

 

Evidently, the Men’s Rightsers liked his comment much better when they thought he totally meant it.

UPDATE 2: Evidently my point in posting a picture of King Leopold of Belguim was a bit too subtle for the not-so-great minds at A Voice for Men to understand. So here is the point, in plain English: If you’re going to talk about all the good things done by white men in history, which have been considerable, you should also be prepared to talk about the bad things they have done, which have also been considerable. Since the fellow I quoted gave examples of the good things he sees as white male accomplishments, I thought I would provide an example of a white man who was not such a good fellow as a counterexample. I hope this helps!

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MaudeLL
10 years ago

Wtf. To sink further into the ridiculous, they actually managed to make this about Rebecca Watson (snipped a few comments asking JakeDDrake to clarify):

[–]JakeDDrake 4 points 1 day ago
Oh, just tell the caddish fool to go get offered a coffee in an elevator.

[–]SpiderEternal 3 points 1 day ago
Let’s not encourage that kind of misogynist behavior ok?

[–]unbannable9412 2 points 22 hours ago
You use the word “misogyny” as though it has any meaning anymore.

[–]JakeDDrake 2 points 23 hours ago*
One Adria Richards Rebecca Watson was asked after an Atheist’s convention (while in an elevator) if she’d like to come up to the asker’s room for coffee and further conversation.
Suffice to say, she did not take it very well.

edit: Yeah, my mistake on her name. Those outrage enthusiasts tend to kinda meld into one another after you’ve heard so many of them.

[–]JakeDDrake 3 points 23 hours ago
Off of the wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevatorgate#Elevator_incident

All citations used in that section are in support of her actions. They claim she’d meant her wording as a joke, but she’s also gone on record stating that men who are skeptical of feminism are worse than rape threats.

[–]theskepticalidealist 1 point 5 hours ago*
She first claimed (and still does) that she didn’t liken it to rape, but then in response to Richard Dawkins mocking her, she started talking about how often women are raped and that’s why her level of fear in the elevator was justified

Lids
10 years ago

@ samantha

it means cisgendered, which means you identify as the gender you were physically born as. like i’m cisgendered because i was born in a female body and i identify as female.

Lids
10 years ago

I should add that I was born in what society considers to be a female body. You can be a female and have what is considered a male body. I hope I explained this well enough without saying anything stupid, if I did say something that might come across as transphobic can someone please tell me.

Ally S
10 years ago

Even if the OP was being sarcastic (which just sounds like a shitty cop-out to me, TBH), his point is still wrong. Blaming white people as a group for committing atrocities against people of color through colonialist expansion and white supremacy does not, in any way, rest on a line of reasoning that would imply that white people deserve to be thanked for all of the supposedly good things they have done.

First of all, prejudice against white people is not racist, and plenty of folks who don’t like white people already know that not every single white person is genuinely supportive of white supremacist colonialism. Even Martin Luther King complained about the “white moderate” in his essay Letter From Birmingham Jail.

Second, even if we concede the truth of his accusation of anti-white racism, it is entirely possible to blame white people as a group for committing injustice and also devalue the contributions that white people have made. In fact, plenty of POC already do that; they point out that POC were in fact present in Europe during the Medieval Age, that at least some indigenous American societies were structured on the basis of a political system that we call “direct democracy” today, and that the creation of rock can be attributed to black musicians. And much more than that.

Beyond these specific examples of whitewashing, there is the fact that many POC still hate white supremacist colonialism because, regardless of how many positive accomplishments white people have made (accomplishments which have mainly benefited white people only), the system in which those discoveries were made still colonized and destroyed POC societies. It’s like telling an indigenous woman who was raped that she should appreciate the white man who raped her because he donates to charity, is known as a righteous man of the cloth, and even has “plenty of Indian friends.”

samantha
10 years ago
Reply to  Lids

it means cisgendered, which means you identify as the gender you were physically born as. like i’m cisgendered because i was born in a female body and i identify as female.

Ahh…Thank you, Lids. Much appreciated.

Ally S
10 years ago

it means cisgendered, which means you identify as the gender you were physically born as. like i’m cisgendered because i was born in a female body and i identify as female.

The preferred term is “cisgender”, actually. The reasons for this preference are unclear to me, but almost every single trans person I know hates hearing “cisgendered”, “transgendered”, etc. – the problem is in the passive voice of the words, as far as I can tell.

And I’d say the most accurate definition is just “non-transgender”, with “transgender” simply meaning “someone whose gender differs from the gender they were assigned at birth.” For instance, I’m trans because my gender is female despite the fact that my gender was assigned male at birth.

Bina
10 years ago

“Yeah, it was entirely meant to stir negative feelings and the premise is ridiculous. It is just the other side of the coin of the thought process for people who use such excuses to be “politically correct” racists and meant to show that their justifications should lead to a reverse conclusion.
If I actually believed I am owed kudos for racial reasons, one should assume that I literally have nothing else going for me in life and that would be sad.”

Well, if patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, shit-stirring unmarked sarcasm is the last refuge of the jackass.

But hey! At least he acknowledges that the accident of his genetics is not a superior achievement. There is hope…

katz
10 years ago

It’s easy to focus on the ahistoricity, but really, even if this guy had personally invented everything himself, he’d still be an asshole if he expected you to get down on your knees and thank him for it.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
10 years ago

I don’t understand how white men have been able to achieve anything, what with constantly being abused by women giving birth.

Lids
10 years ago

@ Buttercup Q. Skullpants

I know, how has the white man accomplished anything, considering how busy he’s been being oppressed by women since forever?? Surely they were too busy hunting mammoth for women to actually create anything.

Ally S
10 years ago

White men never actually made any contributions to the world out of their own free will. Rather, it was only through being manipulated by women’s shapely behinds that white were capable of making those contributions. Descartes only came up with his Meditations on First Philosophy because a woman’s butt told him to write.

weirwoodtreehugger
10 years ago

Somehow, I have a hard time believing that this was satire. For satire to work it has to be:
1) Clear that it’s satire
2) Funny

This looks like backpedaling from someone who got called out for being racist and forgetting elementary school level history. How does this highlight racism against white people? First of all, racism against white people isn’t a thing. Second of all, it isn’t common for people to go around saying that white men never invented anything. The contributions white men made to civilization are not undervalued. In fact they are typically overvalued.

Seriously, don’t most third graders know that gunpowder, the printing press and pasta are Chinese inventions? Isn’t it common knowledge that the concept of zero was Arabic? Didn’t most American kids grow up learning about black inventions in school during black history month?

leatapp
leatapp
10 years ago

Hell kell,
I think that if the people who made up the MRM could get much in life right, they wouldn’t be involved in a bigoted group of back patters, whiners and harassers portraying themselves as people interested in social justice.

MaudeLL,
Watson Derangement Syndrome strikes again.

Weatherby,
So, that person has no idea where the concept of zero came from? How about amazing advances in medicine? I hope you corrected them once you picked your jaw off the ground.

Leum
Leum
10 years ago

Actually, the invention of a numeral indicating zero was Indian; other cultures (e.g. the Sumerians) had the concept too, but indicated it using an empty space rather than a character. IIRC, the Mayans also had a numeral for zero, but I’m not sure.

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
10 years ago

If it weren’t for white people, who knows, maybe the world would be a better place. How many cultures have Western Europeans done their best to fuck with and eradicate? Imagine if colonialism just never happened.

leatapp
leatapp
10 years ago

Leum.
Wow, thanks. I was misinformed.
http://media3.giphy.com/media/5bo8XMq0GROw0/giphy.gif

Robert
Robert
10 years ago

I have read of people complaining about being referred to as ‘cis’. Well, if that’s the worst thing you get called, you have really won the Oppression Olympics, imnsho. /s

In Vonnegut’s book “Cat’s Cradle”, he introduces the ideas (among others) of karass and granfaloon. A karass is the group of people you really belong to, with or without actually knowing it, and is a real thing. A granfaloon is the group you believe yourself to belong to, which does not actually exist. This is all part of Bokononism. ‘The White Race’ would be an excellent example of a granfaloon.

LBT
LBT
10 years ago

RE: WWTH

Seriously, don’t most third graders know that gunpowder, the printing press and pasta are Chinese inventions?

I didn’t learn it till high school, myself.

Adam
Adam
10 years ago

Here’s a short list of some things invented, domesticated, or heavily improved upon by people who weren’t white:
Corn
Wheat
Rice
Christianity
Pointed plows
Mathematics
The alphabet
Potatoes
Cocoa
Copper, silver, bronze
The cure for malaria

So, uh . . . yeah.

LBT
LBT
10 years ago

RE: Robert

I have read of people complaining about being referred to as ‘cis’. Well, if that’s the worst thing you get called, you have really won the Oppression Olympics, imnsho. /s

I don’t even GET how they complain about it. It’s a strict, neutral, descriptive term. You don’t have assholes leaning out of car windows and shrieking, “CIS!” at you as you walk home from the store. You don’t have crowbar-wielding gangsters saying, “We’re gonna make an example out of you, cis,” or job agencies saying, “Sorry, we don’t accept cis people.” What exactly are they complaining about?

talacaris
10 years ago

“What exactly are they complaining about”

PProbably that is a neutral term that describes variation and that they are not described as The Normal to which everything else is a deviation.

vaiyt
10 years ago

“ask yourself how much of current civilization would exist if not for the white man”

As if current civilization is all that it’s cracked up to be.

@Robert

To be exact, a granfalloon is a group united under a fabricated common “identity” but with no real connection, which describes such a thing as “The White Race” very well.

Lids
10 years ago

RE: LBT

What are the complaining about? Everything, obviously.

Shadow
Shadow
10 years ago

Actually, the invention of a numeral indicating zero was Indian

A dramatic recreation of that very moment

LBT
LBT
10 years ago

RE: talacaris

PProbably that is a neutral term that describes variation and that they are not described as The Normal to which everything else is a deviation.

*starts caterwauling Poor Unfortunate Souls*