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It's "Get On Your Knees and Thank a White Man Day" in the Men's Rights subreddit [UPDATED]

King Leopold of Belgium brought the gift of death to ten million Africans
King Leopold of Belgium brought the gift of death to ten million Africans

 

NOTE TO AVFM READERS: See UPDATE 2 at bottom of post.

Over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, a dude named unkleman wants us all to remember the debt of gratitude we owe to the white men of the world:

 

unkleman 27 points 21 hours ago (42|15)  You should ask her if she is ashamed of the burden of original sin or should blacks feel like the burdened sons of Cain.  Here is my response to that attitude, but it is sure to inflame further-  People are quick to blame white people for historic wrongs, but that is because they developed technology in more barbaric times. Do you think the Zulus would have been more kind with muskets? For every white person you want to unload on for historic wrongs, you need to get on your knees and thank a hundred first for the renaissance, the age of exploration, the industrial revolution, the atomic age, and the information age we live in. Take a look at your life and ask yourself how much of current civilization would exist if not for the white man. For all I know, whites are the only reason that we all are not currently as barbaric as the very people that are decried with rants against historic wrongs. These accomplishments have given you the luxury to decry the effort they were built upon and you would have been no better but for what the founders of this world have allowed you, so allow them the thanks you owe in spades.

This message went over pretty well with the overwhelmingly white, overwhelmingly male, overwhelmingly self-pitying and self-congratulatory and maybe just an eensy teensy weensy bit racist demo in the Men’s Rights subreddit. I guess it pays to know your audience!

Men’s Rights and White Supremacy: two … tastes that go together.

Thanks to the folks in the AgainstMensRights subreddit for pointing me to this lovely comment.

UPDATE: Apparently, Unkleman’s comment was meant as sarcasm. That is, while he seems to think that his version of history is accurate, he thinks that the notion that individual white people today deserve credit for things other white people did in the past is stupid.

Interestingly, when he pointed out that this was what he actually meant, he got downvoted below zero, a stark contrast to the reception his original comment got. Take a look:

ishm 5 points 1 day ago (10|5)  I am in agreement with the majority of your statement!  But the "owe to white men" stanza going on for a multitude of sentences triggered negative feelings in me. I do not believe we "owe it to white men", yet I would be much more complacent with "we should appreciate the MEN and WOMEN who discovered them". Owe should be excluded as there was no damned contract signed. Minorities and other whites do not owe anything to whites who discovered various technologies. Appreciate is the word you meant I hope.      permalink     save     parent     report     give gold     reply  [–]unkleman -1 points 1 day ago (4|5)  Yeah, it was entirely meant to stir negative feelings and the premise is ridiculous. It is just the other side of the coin of the thought process for people who use such excuses to be "politically correct" racists and meant to show that their justifications should lead to a reverse conclusion.  If I actually believed I am owed kudos for racial reasons, one should assume that I literally have nothing else going for me in life and that would be sad.

 

Evidently, the Men’s Rightsers liked his comment much better when they thought he totally meant it.

UPDATE 2: Evidently my point in posting a picture of King Leopold of Belguim was a bit too subtle for the not-so-great minds at A Voice for Men to understand. So here is the point, in plain English: If you’re going to talk about all the good things done by white men in history, which have been considerable, you should also be prepared to talk about the bad things they have done, which have also been considerable. Since the fellow I quoted gave examples of the good things he sees as white male accomplishments, I thought I would provide an example of a white man who was not such a good fellow as a counterexample. I hope this helps!

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LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: ollyoxen

However, both Chinese and Korean are languages that have thousands of variable characters, making printing presses nice, but not that useful.

Um, I was under the impression that Korean had a finite set of phonological radicals, combined to make syllabic sounds. You could rig up a printing press system using interlocking radical stamps without too much trouble, I think. So yeah, I don’t buy that.

(Seriously, Korean seems to be one of the best designed alphabets around. Damn!)

Catalpa
Catalpa
6 years ago

LBT, the Korean alphabet is an interesting case, as it was developed relatively late in history (1400s, I think?) relative to pretty much all other alphabets, and was tailored to be relatively simple and to specifically suit the Korean language, as opposed to other alphabets that (I believe) developed alongside languages and tend to have some weird discrepancies and foibles.

Prior to this (and through a lot of Korean history- hangul [the alphabet] has only really been in universal use since the early 1900s I think?), the Chinese alphabet was used instead, because the Chinese culture was such a behemoth in Asia for a large chunk of recorded history, and there was a lot of borrowing from it by surrounding countries (as well as invasions and whatnot). So when the printing press was invented in Korea, it’s likely they were using chinese characters.

This sharing of Chinese alphabet is also why Japanese is such a mess when it comes to alphabets- they used chinese characters for the longest time when their language is really not suited for it (a more phonetic alphabet like Hangul would work much better), and then they supplemented the chinese characters with TWO MORE alphabets (hirigana and katakana) to try to compensate for the shortcomings of the borrowed alphabet.

Excuse any errors in this, I’m not a historian in the slightest.

But yeah, everyone knows only white people did anything historically significant or interesting, right?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

The confusion may be from the habit of writing Korean names using Chinese characters? But yeah, Hangul is pretty printing-friendly.

katz
6 years ago

(Seriously, Korean seems to be one of the best designed alphabets around. Damn!)

Sanskrit is another really elegant (and pretty) one.

Ally S
6 years ago

My favorite alphabet is the Arabic alphabet. Cursive Arabic is very easy to grasp and it almost always looks pretty. I also used to do Arabic calligraphy, which unfortunately I’m not very good at but I made some interesting pieces, I guess. Most of them were just invented by 15-year-old language-obsessed me who thought it was cool to write old philosophical sayings in Arabic calligraphy. (The one that makes me cringe the most is basically a Confucius saying translated into sloppy Arabic.)

I might try writing people’s names in Arabic calligraphy again, though. People seem to be more interested in those, and I don’t have to fear the possibility of being extremely pretentious. (Let’s just say I’m glad I’m no longer 15.)

Ally S
6 years ago

The only thing about the Arabic alphabet that bothers me is the difficulty involved in mastering certain consonants. Anyone who has tried learning the Arabic alphabet (as a non-native speaker of Arabic) knows how hard it is to pronounce ‘ayn, qaaf, and 7aa’.

Sanskrit is another really elegant (and pretty) one.

My sister knows Hindi and her Sanskrit writing is just gorgeous. I envy her. x_x

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

As far as alphabets that are just really pretty to look at, I also like Arabic, and Thai.

misery
misery
6 years ago

I used to have trouble with my throat after my arabic lessons, which is odd since I’m Dutch and we’re stereotyped as having a language with many throat sounds.

katz
6 years ago

Ooh, Thai. They’ve got a great alphabet. A lesser known but awesome one: Tifinagh. Everything looks like a secret code.

Leum
Leum
6 years ago

Since we’re on alphabets, fun fact: the Hebrew alphabet used by Jews (both in modern Israeli Hebrew and in the Tanakh and other sacred writings) is actually the Aramaic alphabet. The only people still using the original Hebrew alphabet are the Samaritans.

Ally S
6 years ago

@Leum

Wow, I had no idea. I have always believed that Hebrew was kind of a long-standing, relatively independent language and that it was in fact Arabic that was largely influenced by Aramaic.

I would love to learn Aramaic if the opportunity ever presents itself. It sounds beautiful – like a soft combination of Hebrew and Arabic. Too bad I don’t know any decent texts on Aramaic.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: Catalpa

LBT, the Korean alphabet is an interesting case,

Yes! Its history is fascinating! And King Sejong = teh awesomez.

I know a bit about this, since I studied linguistics back in the day and was a Japanese minor. So this stuff is pretty much stuff I already know, but it’s still really cool anyway.

RE: katz

Sanskrit is another really elegant (and pretty) one.

I unfortunately know next to nothing about Sanskirt. *shame*

Nitram
Nitram
6 years ago

“I unfortunately know next to nothing about Sanskirt. *shame*”

That typo cracked me up. Read it as “without a skirt” and that u know nothing of being sans skirt. Hehehe.

vaiyt
6 years ago

@Kootiepatra

And that’s leaving out the small detail that that ALL OF CAIN’S DESCENDANTS (according to the Bible) DIED IN THE FLOOD. Seth is the ancestor of Noah and therefore all humanity. They can’t even get their shitty mysticism right.

vaiyt
6 years ago

Re: the OP, there seems to be a very widespread idea – not just with MRAs, but with the general public – that if the person widely credited with inventing X hadn’t done so, X would never have existed. That ONE AND ONLY ONE person could ever have had the stroke of genius that enabled them to create X.

Aaaarrrggghhh. And it’s not just that; it comes with this notion that science and inventions are done by solitary Eureka moments ex nihilo. There’s no such thing as precursors or parallel research.
Usually Einstein is cited as a prime example, when people forget that other scientists, such as Lorentz and Poincaré, were working on the same problems at the same time, and laid the groundwork for Einstein’s theory. Another good example was the invention of the airplane, usually cited as a stroke of genius by the solitary Wright brothers, when in fact a ton of people were racing to be the first to invent heavier-than-air flight, and it was achieved at least one more time independently before the Wrights claimed their invention.

kittehserf
6 years ago

“Eureka is Greek for ‘this bath is too hot'” – the Doctor

Kakanian
Kakanian
6 years ago

[blockquote]Re: the OP, there seems to be a very widespread idea – not just with MRAs, but with the general public – that if the person widely credited with inventing X hadn’t done so, X would never have existed. That ONE AND ONLY ONE person could ever have had the stroke of genius that enabled them to create X.[blockquote]

The jet aircraft is a fine example of why that’s wrong, I think. I can remember two inventors for that, but I think there was a third one as well.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

As Isaac Newton, inventor of the catflap, said

If I have seen further it is by standing on ye sholders of Giants.

kittehserf
6 years ago

I always love that Newton invented the catflap.

Then I wonder … what was the real reason that apple fell out of the tree?

kittehserf
6 years ago

Well, buggrit. The story about Newton may be urban myth. There are different versions of it, anyway.

I found this piece about it – it’s not the article so much, it’s the comments, which are really funny, especially the ones about Schrodinger’s Cat.

http://io9.com/the-legend-of-isaac-newtons-most-foolish-and-cat-frie-511737218

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

@kittehserf, I’m going with this one (‘cos I want to)

There’s a bit more to the legend. The door with the 2 holes was the door to Newton’s lab. Newton was fascinated by light and would spend all day in his dark lab conducting experiments. Anyone who’s ever had a cat could see how this could become a problem. My cat gets upset whenever I spend more than 60 seconds in the bathroom. In Newton’s case, a cat hole wouldn’t work because it would let in too much light, ruining his experiments. His solution was to cover the hole with a heavy piece of felt, transforming it into the world’s first cat door. When his cat became a mother, he had a new problem. The kittens weren’t strong enough to move the felt door. He created the kitten door with a smaller, lighter piece of felt so they could come and go when they pleased without disrupting his experiments.

kittehserf
6 years ago

That was my favourite, too!

Though the idea of the cat/s just refusing to use the first door works as well. They do it with cat beds, can’t you just see them doing it with doors?

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

Especially if they think they can make a human open the door, instead. *glares at witchy kitty*

kittehserf
6 years ago

Open the door so they can then not go through it.

mildlymagnificent
6 years ago

But hang around glaring, or gazing wistfully, at you with unbounded pity that you’re too stupid to work out what they really want even though they’ve not yet thought of it themselves.

kittehserf
6 years ago

That’s it.

There are some fascinating articles on that site, including this one about cat behaviour, WITH CUTE KITTY PICS.

http://io9.com/the-truth-about-geeks-and-cats-1536633305/all

(Why yes, ‘cats’ was my search term, why do you ask?)

A dude
A dude
6 years ago

Even if you think white people are evil, there is no denying that modern technology exists because of them.
As the author points out, there is no reason to believe Zulus would have been nicer had they’ve had machine guns.

Fade
6 years ago

@a dude

citation MAJORLY needed

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Do we need to go over how the concept of 0 which is essential to computer programming was not discovered by Europeans again?

cloudiah
6 years ago

I love the overlap between racists and misogynists. Just remember, everyone, bigotry comes in little clusters of shit.

KL
KL
5 years ago

You should also mention, as it is above bigots heads, that the white man did not invent All of Everything. Or even Most.

NecRomancer
NecRomancer
3 years ago

It was the hated white people who created modern industrial civilization and thought. Ironically those poor oppressed POCs always built civilizations for the nobility, their 1%. It was the British who built the first mass market, making the fruit of civilization available for the common man for the first time.

This goes hand in hand with the philosophies of human rights and democracy. The feudalist civilizations built by POCs not only could not develop or sustain democratic progress, they were the worst offenders when it comes to imperialism and genocide. Just ask anyone in the Balkans and central Europe how Ottoman rule worked out for them.

Furthermore, even when these civilizations had an inventive thought, it was not applied on a mass basis, often being seen as mere curiosities. This applies also to Western inventions, as demonstrated by the numerous printing pressed sent as gifts by the Vatican to the Mughal emperor. Even though it typed not in latin alphabet, it was a mere curiosity to the arrogant despots.

This arrogance naturally and inevitably led to the eclipse of the POC oligarchies, while the West, learning truth no matter where it came from, built unprecedented progress. The bourgeoisie revolutionized production while the proletariat and the petty bourgeoisie revolutionized politics.

As for POCs, their feudal and religious shackles on their minds prevented them from even imagining their liberation. They had to rely on the western thoughts of democracy and socislism to oppose colonial rule. Sure, a slave might hate that he wad enslaved, but without western ideals, they could not even think up abolition, only escape or becoming masters. But they would not haye slavery as an institution, as their own people had happily practiced it for thousands of years before. The only difference is that this time, they were on the losing side.

Why does it matter? Because radical Black Supremacists are ruthless, writing “vote Trump” on their own church, which they burnt. Snd yes I do have a source for that.

All the while they seek to claim credit for other races accomplishments. They see black as the master race. That is why the mrm is right to do this.