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New Men's Rights Issue: Women attacking men while giving birth

Is this man in grave danger?
Is this man putting his life in grave danger?

Is there no end to the ways in which women oppress the men of the world? Over on A Voice for Men, Clint Carpentier reports – and I use that term loosely – on a heretofore overlooked form of anti-male oppression: the abuse of fathers in delivery rooms by women who are at that moment literally in the stirrups giving birth.

Yep, we’re talking about women who use 12 hours of labor as a convenient excuse to yell at, and sometimes scratch and bite, their husbands and boyfriends. Apparently, there’s an epidemic of women in labor cruelly attacking men from the comfort and safety of the delivery table.

Carpentier starts off his post by making clear that giving birth isn’t really the big freaking deal all the ladies think it is, anyway:

Giving birth is an amazing feat of zero skill, and it still amazes me. It amazes me that this is the epitome, the pinnacle, the supposed female trump card to all male accomplishments. A man lands on the moon with analogue technology and proves Galileo’s theory of air resistance, but never mind that, another woman gave birth, just as well as any other female animal on the planet. A man creates life in a petri-dish, but never mind that, some broad stole his sperm and created life herself.

Anyway, I’m not knocking the dangers of labor, men know all about the dangers of labor; there really ought to be a better word for giving birth.

And whatever alleged pain women undergo during so-called “labor” apparently pales in insignificance to the pain men suffer from being in their presence in the delivery room. Carpentier has managed to avoid this terrible fate himself – his wife went the c-section route, no biggie – but he has heard tales that would make your skin crawl:

I have … heard stories, have … seen the scratches and bite marks, on the fathers who braved the maternity ward. And these same brave men praise the bravery of the mothers of their children. They proudly display scars the mothers-to-be inflicted upon them during the ordeal.

I’m hoping these scars are only from fingernails and that mothers-to-be aren’t sneaking shivs into the delivery room.

Oh, also, sometimes women in labor yell really loudly:

Sometimes a father will reminisce amusingly about how he’d been temporarily deafened when she had screamed right in his ear for waxing sympathetically over her tribulations.

And apparently it’s only men who are the targets for this scratching and biting and yelling:

I hear these stories only from men. I know, men aren’t the only people comforting these women during birth; some women don’t have a man at the time. But what I don’t hear, are these stories from the female nurses, friends, mothers, sisters, etc, who are there to console and coach these single mothers-to-be. Why is it, I’m only hearing accounts of weathering physical abuse and injury from the fathers?

I don’t know, dude. Do you hang out with female nurses on a regular basis? Do you spend as much time drinking beer and shooting the shit with your wife’s female friends as you do with your own?

You see, if I am correct, and it is only fathers who suffer this abuse, then delivery of such injury is selective. I can see no call for it.

Really? First of all, you haven’t shown that this is abuse and not simply an accident. Second, how many of these female friends, mothers, sisters, what have you, were actually in the delivery room? Because that seems like an important variable to take into consideration before jumping to conclusions based on a dataset of some-dudes-allegedly-told-you-something-once.

In fact, fathers-to-be should avoid the maternity ward altogether, as they are obviously not welcome.

Really again? You imagine an epidemic of anti-male violence by women giving birth based on a couple of stories and a rather half-assed deduction you’ve made from it, and therefore conclude that 1) men should miss out on the birth of their children and 2) shouldn’t be there to comfort their wives as best they can during labor.

If birthing is license to mistreat, abuse, or injure a father in the witness of medical professionals, then what deterrent exists, preventing continued abuse in private? And for that matter, what indication is there that she doesn’t abuse him already?

Woah. Let’s just back up a little here. First of all, dude, you haven’t proven that “abuse of fathers” by women on the delivery table is actually a thing. You’ve offered only a few vague anecdotes – and these anecdotes don’t even make clear whether or not the alleged “ delivery of … injury” – gotta love that evasive wording – was deliberate.

Given the stress and pain of labor, it’s easy to imagine how a woman giving birth might accidentally scratch someone. Maybe the mother in question was holding onto her husband’s hand for support and dug her fingernails in a little too hard and left a mark. Maybe she flailed her arm backwards and accidentally scratched his face. We don’t know, because not only do you offer zero real evidence for any of your claims, but your second-hand stories don’t offer enough detail to know what was going on.

If endangering your own life once or twice provides license to abuse a man, what does that say about our society. Particularly when he endangers his own life as a matter of routine to support you?

Seriously? I know Men’s Righsters love to complain about the fact that many more men than women die on the job – though this complaining never seems to lead to any actual activism on the issue of workplace safety – but the fact is that most men, in the US at least, DO NOT WORK DANGEROUS JOBS. They don’t endanger their own lives “as a matter of routine.” They don’t endanger their lives at all by going to work, at least not any more than women do.

MRAs love to give themselves credit for bravery because they share a gender with a small number of men who do in fact work dangerous jobs. But I’m guessing there are not a lot of lion tamers amongst the Men’s Rights crowd. Somehow I’m thinking that most of them have jobs that mostly involve sitting on their asses in rooms entirely devoid of lions.

Anyway, if the overwhelming majority of men don’t endanger their lives by going to work, they endanger it even less by “braving” the delivery room. Men face no actual physical threat from women who are literally flat on their back, their feet in stirrups, in the process of pushing an entire human being out through their vaginas.

But, hey, women do sometimes yell rude things during labor, so maybe it’s possible that a few of them do scratch or even bite their husbands, though the latter seems like it might be a tad difficult logistically. Some might even do so on purpose. If so, there would probably be some evidence of this somewhere online, right?

Well, I searched for a while using every combination of search words I could think of. I found an assortment of disturbing headlines about men attacking women in and around maternity wards: Guilty: man who punched and kicked pregnant girlfriend outside Poole Maternity Hospital; Man charged with assaulting pregnant girlfriend, staff in hospital maternity ward; Man Throws Meat Cleaver Into Maternity Ward.

I found disturbing statistics about pregnancy and domestic violence, which often begins or increases during pregnancy; according to one 2000 study, some 324,000 pregnant women are abused each year.

On a somewhat lighter note, I found women wondering if it was normal to have a really itchy stomach after giving birth, and another person wondering “why is my bitch digging so much after giving birth[?]” (Don’t worry; they were talking about a dog.)

Amidst all this – and many hundreds of other irrelevant results – I managed to find one example of a woman scratching a man during childbirth.

On a page in which she provided all the gory details of her 28 hours of labor – along with numerous pictures of her newborn – one new mother also posted a couple of pictures documenting the scratches she’d given her husband while in labor. (I’m not giving out the link because MRAs. )

Brace yourself. Here’s one of the pictures, with the father’s face partially blurred out:

New father displays scratches his wife gave him during her 28 hours of labor
New father displays scratches his wife gave him during her 28 hours of labor

If you look very carefully you can see four faint scratches on his forearm. The blogger isn’t a native English speaker, but as far as I can tell from what she wrote about it, she didn’t give these terrible scratches to him on purpose.

The horror!

 

 

 

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saintnick86
saintnick86
6 years ago

First off: David, I love it when you rant – as you did in the last section of the post. Seriously, it’s quite fun to read.

Second:

Giving birth is an amazing feat of zero skill, and it still amazes me. It amazes me that this is the epitome, the pinnacle, the supposed female trump card to all male accomplishments.

A) HOW THE FUCK WOULD YOU KNOW HOW IT’S LIKE?!

I mean, sure, I could talk out of my ass about something of which I’m physically incapable of nor will ever experience – but then I’d just be a presumptuous dickhead. I’m pretty sure my mom and every woman who had kids weren’t lying to me when they fully admitted to just how goddamn difficult it could be.

B) Giving birth isn’t the end-all and be-all of what women are capable of. That’s all you, being the reactionary cretin that you are. I’m pretty sure, were it not for women – computing programming and wireless communication technology as it is now wouldn’t likely exist. It’s pretty easy to google the names “Ada Lovelace” and “Hedy Lamarr” last I checked…

katz
6 years ago

“But what about Rick? He was on his feet all that time!”

Do they not have chairs anywhere in that hospital?

kittehserf
6 years ago

Can’t you just see this guy after his SO gives birth? “So what if your entire abdomen was spasming for hours and your vulva is torn and you’re bleeding like a stuck pig? I have scratches on my arm!”

Plus you just know he’d be demanding PiV sex the minute she’s stopped looking all, you know, yucky and bloody and everything.

BigMomma
6 years ago

what a belaboured point.

Srsly though, I’ve had 2 kids and labour is….intense.

1st one was so quick, I tore really badly. They had to restitch me 12 hours later…no anaesthetic. That was possible worse than the labour. If only Mr BIgMomma had been there at 2am instead of at home asleep I could have abused him, thus restoring misandric balance to the world

2nd one was drug free (not through choice) and I can still remember being, er, frightened in between contractions, knowing another was on its way and not sure if I could mentally cope with the pain. Mr BigMomma was in the room with me and maybe I squeezed his shoulder hard once or twice but mostly I just whimpered and wanted to go home. I failed yet again in my misandric duties.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

I doubt my mom “abused” my dad during the births of my sister and I, since we were both c-sections, and I know she didn’t get go into labor with my sister (my sister’s heart rate scared the crap out of the OB at a checkup, and they prepped the operating room).

Also, I have gotten worse scratches cuddling with my cats. Jade (the one in my current avatar) was cuddling by my side in the crook of my arm when she started to slide off the bed and then used her claws to try to keep herself from falling… it has been about 2 months and I can still see the marks.

BigMomma
6 years ago

@Katz, only hard, misandric chairs

Lady Mondegreen
6 years ago

Aw, look at the happy miserable smile wince on the face of that new father brave oppressed brother.

katz
6 years ago

I have been banned from thumb wars and Egyptian Rat Screw (grown-up slap jack, beloved by high-school debaters) due to mine.

I was banned from using my engagement ring hand. Hey, I didn’t hurt you, you chose to bring your hand slamming down on my diamond!

kittehserf
6 years ago

what a belaboured point.

ba-doom TISH!

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
6 years ago

Unlike animals who act on instincts (they are just having sex) female humans are perfectly aware beforehand of what they will have to go through to have a baby, so yes that takes courage. But apparently for those guys women are just mindless birthing machines whose purpose in life is to get non-stop pregnant after viciously stealing their sperm…

And women sacrifice absolutely nothing in doing so, it’s only those guys who suffer…

Skye
Skye
6 years ago

I also feel bad for his mom. Of all the things my son could do with his life, I really hope ‘become a hateful, horrible person’ is not something he chooses.

BigMomma
6 years ago

@kittehs…thank you ma’am

magnetforchaos
magnetforchaos
6 years ago

Hey you can let the mras know that i for one am totally down to hand over my birth rage if they take the birth, pregnancy, and monthly cycle. All yours dudes. Also i am very confused about their descriptions of women in general: ive never met a woman that fit their description of; whiney, needy, clingy, stupid, and unable to care for themselves. But i have met several men that hit that criterea. So maybe, just maybe… mras are nothing but whiney, incompetent, basement dwellers who cant handle life on their own, so they blame everyone else and become bitter, twisted shrews who live off of their mothers while blaming women for everything not going how they want it too.

House Mouse Queen
6 years ago

@ David: Did you get my email to you? I sent it a few days ago. It was about the attack on the Queen’s student.

@Helen
They do have machines that hook up to men’s abdomen and give them ‘labor pains.’ I saw a video of it. The men didn’t last more than 5 minutes iirc.

Noadi
6 years ago

I’m not going to compare childbirth to anything I’ve done, I’ve never experienced it and never want to. However when I’m in pain yelling profanity has a cathartic effect and helps me process it better. I don’t doubt that some women in labor have yelled some pretty awful things, some might be directed at the fathers, but most of it is probably general cursing because it hurts.

Wetherby
Wetherby
6 years ago

I’ve just asked my wife, a midwife of over fifteen years’ experience who’s officiated over thousands of births, whether she’d ever been sworn at or physically assaulted by her clients while they were in the throes of labour.

When she’d finished laughing she asked “What do you think? These women are in extreme pain and I’m the one telling them to do things that they don’t want to do! The husband might very occasionally bear the brunt of her reaction, but most of the time it’s me – and quite rightly: I’ve given birth twice so I know what it’s like.”

BigMomma
6 years ago

@wetherby, I *think* I was polite to my midwives. My only memory is when they told me to stop doing something and wait a wee while, I said OK and a few minutes later, said “excuse me but I really need to start again”. I actually said excuse me during labour.

Z
Z
6 years ago

Offtopic:

Any idea who are these protesters against Women’s History Month?
http://thesherlockednerdfighter.tumblr.com/post/81939301185/what-the-actual-fuck

MRAs? Fundies? Garden-variety contrarians?

katz
6 years ago

Z: Gotta be a joke, right? The little flyer sounds like a joke. Hitting the interwebs didn’t take me anywhere that wasn’t Tumblr or Twitter.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Like many a Poe, it’s easy to believe those guys were for real.

Though they were smiling and wearing suits, so definitely not MRAs.

bluecat
bluecat
6 years ago

True story – my brother ended up having 4 stitches after he went into the delivery room to see my lovely niece born.

He keeled over, hit his chin on some equipment and put his teeth through his lip.

Turns out he faints at the sight of blood, especially when it’s gushing from someone he loves.

My niece was the biggest baby delivered in that hospital since it opened, and it was mainly head. My sister-in-law got a lot more stitches in a much tenderer place: he was able to laugh long before she was able to sit comfortably.

Amazingly, they went on to have a second child.

It’s almost as if some men and women actually want kids and are prepared to put up with pain and distress to have them.

zippydoo
zippydoo
6 years ago

If the months leading up to labor weren’t bad enough (having to watch diet, dealing with complications, dealing with expected effects like morning sickness, bloated feet, etc.), a woman then gets to go in and unknowingly sometimes surrender her body to the medical team who may take unnecessary steps like an episiotomy without asking permission because it’s ‘routine’. And heaven help her if she’s an inmate, she can expect to be chained to the bed and ignored in her pain.

But does it end after the birth? Nope. Then society puts pressure on women to return to their pre-pregnancy state as soon as possible. This can manifest in things like the ‘husband stitch’, the ignorance regarding postpartum depression, and the requirement that she somehow lose weight and tighten up while doing the majority of the work regarding the infant and managing her husband’s feelings so that he doesn’t feel too jealous of the baby.

I haven’t personally given birth, but I’ve known enough people who go through it. I didn’t even know ‘breastfeeding jealousy’ was a thing until a friend told me her husband had it. I knew another new mother who had to research PPD on her own for herself and her husband, because they just weren’t informed, even though it occurs in something like 9-16% women who give birth. The horror stories I hear from women far outweigh the horror stories of the men, but at least those men have the decency to mention ‘but what she experienced is far more serious’ instead of ‘what about the menz’ing.

TinaS(realnottroll)
TinaS(realnottroll)
6 years ago

I had an amazon-sized nurse tell me not to hurt her hand while I was in labor/delivery…giving birth to an 8.5 size boy through a size zero lower region. I tore even after the cut. Nothing is the same.

TinaS(realnottroll)
TinaS(realnottroll)
6 years ago

trying to link: http://metro.co.uk/2013/05/15/two-men-take-on-labour-pain-simulator-to-experience-child-birth-3759887/

There is a childbirth pain simulator out there. Some Australian men tried it for tv show.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Heh heh. I was in labor 26 hours and the epidural wore off. I cursed out everyone in the room (husband, nurse, obstetrician and intern). I didn’t assault anybody, though, because so much pain and I was a little busy at the time. Lots of f-bombs, though.

The really fun part, though, was I knew the intern. A couple months earlier, he’d done his med-surg rotation on the unit I’d worked on, and I’d taken care of many of his patients, so we both recognized each other. I didn’t give a shit, because intense pain and then baby!, but I think he was a little uncomfortable.

Anonymous
Anonymous
6 years ago

Have you ever considered writing an article about the correlations between mens rights activists and paedophile apologists? There is some content here: http://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/22s0jx/misters_use_site_that_endorses_child_pornography/ but I’ve seen it come up a few times

scarlettpipstrelle
6 years ago

Back in the early 20th century it was common to restrain a woman’s hands during childbirth, partly because of the disorienting drugs and partly to control her during the pain. Perhaps the mens rightsesrs are going to ask for that next?

kittehserf
6 years ago

They won’t want the women to have any drugs, though.

Octo
Octo
6 years ago

There is a childbirth pain simulator out there. Some Australian men tried it for tv show.

…I offer a deal: I won’t ever question that childbirth can be an intensely pain- and stressful affair, and needless to say these MRAs are idiots who don’t know what they’re talking about. In return, this device is not coming anywhere near me… pretty please?

emilygoddess
6 years ago

Unlike animals who act on instincts (they are just having sex) female humans are perfectly aware beforehand of what they will have to go through to have a baby, so yes that takes courage.

There’s also the fact that we are much more developed at birth than the infants of many other species, meaning we are proportionally larger (especially in the brain). Our pelvises are only barely large enough for the infants we’re birthing, and it’s not uncommon for an oversized baby or petite pelvis to lead to a baby that just won’t fit. We just aren’t comparable to dogs at all on this point.

Angela Wilson Jahnel
6 years ago

Wow, this guy is actually comparing a few scratches to the intense pain of giving birth? Trust me, buddy, I bet nurses and the mothers and friends of the mom to be get scratched too, it’s not just husbands/boyfriends. The difference is, they don’t consider it a big deal so they don’t gripe about it. Try pushing a cantaloupe out of your butt and see how you feel during and after the process. Thankfully, I never scratched anyone or screamed obscenities. I had a 100% natural labor and delivery, with my husband supporting me from behind while I squat-labored. I never scratched him, bit him, cussed him out, or even gave him a dirty look. The dirty look is apparently quite common when a husband is trying to say comforting things like, “You’re almost there. You’re doing a great job.” and the wife will commonly give him a “F*@k you! What the hell do you know?!” look. I was too busy trying to get my son out as fast as possible so the whole thing could be over with.

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
6 years ago

There’s also the fact that we are much more developed at birth than the infants of many other species, meaning we are proportionally larger (especially in the brain). Our pelvises are only barely large enough for the infants we’re birthing, and it’s not uncommon for an oversized baby or petite pelvis to lead to a baby that just won’t fit. We just aren’t comparable to dogs at all on this point.

True! Of all primates humans have the most difficult and risky births, precisely because of the head size. Just because something is natural doesn’t mean it’s easy or safe. Hyenas for example have high mortality at birth, because they have to give birth through a penis-like thing, the females in those species are pumped up on testosterone and are larger than the males. Nature can be weird and cruel.

leatapp
leatapp
6 years ago

I still remember being in the hospital, laboring with my bio-kid. I wanted no drugs. (Ah, I was so young and misinformed.) It went on forever. I finally ended up getting a C-section. My husband stayed with me through the night and into the next At one point he was so tired that he was laying his head on my hand between contractions. When he sat up, I knew the next one was coming. He said he could feel a change in the muscles of my hand before I felt the pain. He was my voice when I couldn’t speak. He made sure I knew what was going on. He was a great comfort during a horrible time that I will never go through again. I was nothing but happy with him. But during a couple really intense contractions I told him I wished I had something to bite down on. He just leaned over close and said, “Bite me”. I did. My midwife was an ex-Marine with a house full of kids of her own. She didn’t flinch, but my husband told me later that the nurses looked freaked out. At the time I could not have cared less what anyone thought. If the doctor told me he could rip my baby out through my nose at about the 17th hour, I’d have let him. Biting down gave me some relief. That some dipshit would call that abuse seriously pisses me off. The only man I was more enamored with that night was the anesthesiologist. Knowing I was not a fan of needles and that he was about to put a large one in my spine he whispered in my ear in the surgery, “I can do this better and faster than anyone, anywhere. Don’t worry.” I fell a little bit in love with him. By the time they got Hubby in his bunny suit and in the room, I was laughing and telling him that I was in the fetus frightening room and there really was a machine that goes “Ping”. Those were some good drugs.

You know who does frequently experience abuse, sexual assault and extreme trauma during birth? Women.

Google “birth trauma” or “birth rape”.

leatapp
leatapp
6 years ago

It isn’t so much the size of our heads that make human birth rougher than chimp birth. It’s the long birth canal we have because we walk upright. Much like we increased our risk of choking when we gained the tools necessary for speech, we increased our chances of complication and pain in childbirth when our bodies gained the ability walk upright.

Martin
Martin
6 years ago

Re Clint Carpentier being married, having a child and still writing such unmitigated bilge… My job used to be mostly human interaction and so I have met my share of stupid, self-centred, nasty women and men. Some of these horrible people were in long-term relationships, which used to amaze me.

Based solely on personal observation, I’ve identified three reasons assholes manage to find companionship. First is the rarest, but also most obvious and that’s like attracting like. Some types of personality flaw, like addiction to drama or extreme negativity, can do well together.

Secondly is growing in opposite directions, usually the result of two people getting together very young. Lots of young people are emotionally messed up due to immaturity (I certainly was), bit sometimes as a young couple grow up, one of them learns to be a decent adult and the other either clings to adolescence or grows into adult personality disorders.

Last is the most common & saddest and that’s the amazing power of low self-esteem. So often horrible people just latch onto someone who believes they don’tDeserve any better. My money for partners of MRAs is on the latter.

Nitram
Nitram
6 years ago

I could go on and on about the excruciating pain of childbirth. What strikes me the most is his assumption the poor widdle father receives all of the “abuse” while FEMALES leave unscathed. I verbally abused my midwife and her nurse to such an embarrassing level, I still cringe to think about it. Saying things like “get your f***king fingers outta me!!” And “give me something!!! Now!! This is not working! No! No! No! Fuuuuuuk meeee!” I literally could not control myself. I almost reached down and pushed her away. She very calmly and firmly told me what she was doing and why she was doing it as my daughter’s head was descending. My husband stood by and kept repeating what a great job I’m doing. I felt terrible for saying so many wretched things and when I apologized they sorta looked at me as if to say “that was nothing! We’ve seen and heard it all.” I’m pretty sure FEMALES endure the same, if not more “abuse” than the daddies. Funny none of them have ever come forward to report it.

Oolon (@oolon)
6 years ago

Number one result on an image search of your example is the woman’s birthing story. Might want to crop it some more to obfuscate or the MRAs will find it.

Montana Wildhack
6 years ago

Whenever I read stuff like this, I am amazed that the Men’s Rights “movement” can attract as many followers as it does. The whole thing strikes me as far more misandrist than misogynist. To be so weak that a few scratches on your arm while your wife is in labor is abuse? How does that not insult men more than women?

Ledasmom
Ledasmom
6 years ago

Around here we joke about the nurse who may still be bearing the marks of my fingernails – she was holding my hand when the doctor cut the episiotomy for my first son’s birth (vacuum-assist). I’d had an epidural, but apparently I progressed quite fast after that and the epidural hadn’t taken effect by delivery time, and they had to get him out – though he livened up quickly, right after birth he had an APG.AR of 1.
I still think that, of the two of us, I got it worse than the nurse did. I was wearing an icepack in my pants for days.
Husband has no scars of any sort from either labor, unless you count the vasectomy scar. The vasectomy would have been less painful if he had managed to schedule it before younger son was walking; a toddler in his lap was not the best possible thing for painless recovery.
I note that the men that Carpentier supposedly heard from didn’t appear too upset about the whole deal, revealing considerably more perspective than he’s capable of.

Wetherby
Wetherby
6 years ago

I verbally abused my midwife and her nurse to such an embarrassing level, I still cringe to think about it. Saying things like “get your f***king fingers outta me!!” And “give me something!!! Now!! This is not working! No! No! No! Fuuuuuuk meeee!” I literally could not control myself. I almost reached down and pushed her away. She very calmly and firmly told me what she was doing and why she was doing it as my daughter’s head was descending.

And this is why midwives aren’t shrinking violets. They’re completely used to this – a core requirement of the job is being willing and able to tell people politely but firmly to to things that they absolutely don’t want to do (and with good reason).

Although I should probably make clear that by “assault” I’m talking about things like grabbing and scratching, not slapping or punching.

marenleinchen
6 years ago

OT:
While reading the article on AVFM, I noticed that they are now in a partnership with Wikimannia, a German antifeminist wiki.
Being a German feminist, I am of course familiar with this site and I can tell you, this is the most homophobic, sexist and all around rightwing conservative shit site you could possibly imagine. It is run by people, who have already been considered a hate movement by German journalists and, interestingly, even by most German MRA´s, although they gladly buy into all the other PUA/MGTOW crap.

I already sighed in a mixture of pain and delight (after all, I love it when I´m right :D) at the fact that Dean Esmay gleefully adapted the term “purple poodle”, a propaganda term that even most German MRA´s shy away from, because it´s considered demeaning.

So anyway I just thought I might give you this information, so David can keep an eye on it, if he wants to. This should be interesting.
Greetings from the other side of the pond 🙂

emma
emma
6 years ago

Let’s face it: the whole pregnancy and birth thing — especially the birth thing — is as clear an example of misandry as one could ever imagine (the last word is the key, yes).

Now I’ma go and apologize to my husband for oppressing him so during those two unfortunate birth-giving events to which I subjected him almost thirty years ago.

I did not scratch him (as far as I can remember), but I am certain now, after reading the enlightening expose of this Clint dude, that my husband has been forever scarred by my screams, not to mention the traumatic sight of his kids being born. My “labor” (ha ha) pains and the associated ordeals pale in comparison with his suffering, and I am sure he will agree with it as soon as I inform him about it (and after he finally stops laughing).

takshak
takshak
6 years ago

maternal death rate in the US: 21/100k
police job-related death rate in the U.S.: 19/100k (includes traffic fatalities)
firefighters:17/100k

reality called….

emma
emma
6 years ago

scarlettpipstrelle | April 13, 2014 at 7:39 am

“Back in the early 20th century it was common to restrain a woman’s hands during childbirth, partly because of the disorienting drugs and partly to control her during the pain. Perhaps the mens rightsesrs are going to ask for that next?”

No doubt. We should do anything in our power to protect poor menz from assaults of birth-giving women. This abomination must stop now. Enough is enough.

leatapp
leatapp
6 years ago

MRAs on reddit did a survey. Here are the not at all surprising results:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1cxP5G8eJQ73208wEuUNfJG8cCj5WaLoUAV3YeGnQaRo/viewanalytics

Have a laugh with me.

Z
Z
6 years ago

Re: MRA survey: those graphs are a glitch, distorted because they include the empty lines in the spreadsheet. There were 570 responses, not 3000. The true picture is still amusing, though. 🙂

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Leatapp,
Young white conservative men who want to legalize marijuana but don’t care about any civil rights issues. So, basically the same demographic that loves Ayn Rand. AKA asshole libertarians. That explains so much! Young and sheltered idiots, the lot of them.

It actually gives me hope that the vast majority of these guys are in the 17-20 age range. They might actually grow up and realize that being an MRA is bullshit. They are probably still really sheltered and don’t realize that all the other people do indeed have it far worse than cishet white males.

Angelica
6 years ago

Doesn’t he realize this abuse starts LONG before labour?

The woman gets to stay home at the end of the pregnancy (or if she fakes enough troubling symptoms, a lot sooner!) and the man has to take care of everything and take over her duties while she lies on the couch, ever growing more fat and unattractive too. As if that’s not enough, the female frequently makes ridiculous demands like her husband getting her ice cream in the middle of the night and he stands a huge chance of being screamed at and perhaps even physically assaulted when he refuses such a request! Furthermore, this leaves him deprived of sleep and at even greater risk of injury or death at his already risky job!

Don’t be fooled! Pregnancy was designed by feminism to oppress men and this is the ONLY reason I am pro-choice! In fact, men should be allowed to decide a female should have an abortion if she stole his sperm, which is basically always.

/this is sadly what some MRAs actually sound like.

Z
Z
6 years ago

Crap, my previous comment was held for moderation because of a typo in the e-mail address. Again:

About the MRA survey: those graphs are likely the result of a glitch – the results are distorted because the graphs include the empty lines in the spreadsheet that contains the actual answers. There were about 570 responses, not 3000. Click on the link under “3077 answers” to see the source spreadsheet – it has a lot of empty lines in the middle. The true picture is still amusing, though.

emilygoddess
6 years ago

Nature can be weird and cruel.

That’s because nature doesn’t care if individuals survive. Somewhere in our history, the benefits of walking upright (thanks Leatapp) and being born with large brains outweighed the increased maternal mortality, and as a species we’ve benefitted, even though millions of individuals died.

You know who does frequently experience abuse, sexual assault and extreme trauma during birth? Women.

YES. If what I know about pregnancy and childbirth hadn’t scared me off ever reproducing, reading about nonconsensual episiotomies and c-sections would have. If I ever do give birth, I’m getting a doula/lawyer/ass-kicker (Pell, do you have a sister?)