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New Men's Rights Issue: Women attacking men while giving birth

Is this man in grave danger?
Is this man putting his life in grave danger?

Is there no end to the ways in which women oppress the men of the world? Over on A Voice for Men, Clint Carpentier reports – and I use that term loosely – on a heretofore overlooked form of anti-male oppression: the abuse of fathers in delivery rooms by women who are at that moment literally in the stirrups giving birth.

Yep, we’re talking about women who use 12 hours of labor as a convenient excuse to yell at, and sometimes scratch and bite, their husbands and boyfriends. Apparently, there’s an epidemic of women in labor cruelly attacking men from the comfort and safety of the delivery table.

Carpentier starts off his post by making clear that giving birth isn’t really the big freaking deal all the ladies think it is, anyway:

Giving birth is an amazing feat of zero skill, and it still amazes me. It amazes me that this is the epitome, the pinnacle, the supposed female trump card to all male accomplishments. A man lands on the moon with analogue technology and proves Galileo’s theory of air resistance, but never mind that, another woman gave birth, just as well as any other female animal on the planet. A man creates life in a petri-dish, but never mind that, some broad stole his sperm and created life herself.

Anyway, I’m not knocking the dangers of labor, men know all about the dangers of labor; there really ought to be a better word for giving birth.

And whatever alleged pain women undergo during so-called “labor” apparently pales in insignificance to the pain men suffer from being in their presence in the delivery room. Carpentier has managed to avoid this terrible fate himself – his wife went the c-section route, no biggie – but he has heard tales that would make your skin crawl:

I have … heard stories, have … seen the scratches and bite marks, on the fathers who braved the maternity ward. And these same brave men praise the bravery of the mothers of their children. They proudly display scars the mothers-to-be inflicted upon them during the ordeal.

I’m hoping these scars are only from fingernails and that mothers-to-be aren’t sneaking shivs into the delivery room.

Oh, also, sometimes women in labor yell really loudly:

Sometimes a father will reminisce amusingly about how he’d been temporarily deafened when she had screamed right in his ear for waxing sympathetically over her tribulations.

And apparently it’s only men who are the targets for this scratching and biting and yelling:

I hear these stories only from men. I know, men aren’t the only people comforting these women during birth; some women don’t have a man at the time. But what I don’t hear, are these stories from the female nurses, friends, mothers, sisters, etc, who are there to console and coach these single mothers-to-be. Why is it, I’m only hearing accounts of weathering physical abuse and injury from the fathers?

I don’t know, dude. Do you hang out with female nurses on a regular basis? Do you spend as much time drinking beer and shooting the shit with your wife’s female friends as you do with your own?

You see, if I am correct, and it is only fathers who suffer this abuse, then delivery of such injury is selective. I can see no call for it.

Really? First of all, you haven’t shown that this is abuse and not simply an accident. Second, how many of these female friends, mothers, sisters, what have you, were actually in the delivery room? Because that seems like an important variable to take into consideration before jumping to conclusions based on a dataset of some-dudes-allegedly-told-you-something-once.

In fact, fathers-to-be should avoid the maternity ward altogether, as they are obviously not welcome.

Really again? You imagine an epidemic of anti-male violence by women giving birth based on a couple of stories and a rather half-assed deduction you’ve made from it, and therefore conclude that 1) men should miss out on the birth of their children and 2) shouldn’t be there to comfort their wives as best they can during labor.

If birthing is license to mistreat, abuse, or injure a father in the witness of medical professionals, then what deterrent exists, preventing continued abuse in private? And for that matter, what indication is there that she doesn’t abuse him already?

Woah. Let’s just back up a little here. First of all, dude, you haven’t proven that “abuse of fathers” by women on the delivery table is actually a thing. You’ve offered only a few vague anecdotes – and these anecdotes don’t even make clear whether or not the alleged “ delivery of … injury” – gotta love that evasive wording – was deliberate.

Given the stress and pain of labor, it’s easy to imagine how a woman giving birth might accidentally scratch someone. Maybe the mother in question was holding onto her husband’s hand for support and dug her fingernails in a little too hard and left a mark. Maybe she flailed her arm backwards and accidentally scratched his face. We don’t know, because not only do you offer zero real evidence for any of your claims, but your second-hand stories don’t offer enough detail to know what was going on.

If endangering your own life once or twice provides license to abuse a man, what does that say about our society. Particularly when he endangers his own life as a matter of routine to support you?

Seriously? I know Men’s Righsters love to complain about the fact that many more men than women die on the job – though this complaining never seems to lead to any actual activism on the issue of workplace safety – but the fact is that most men, in the US at least, DO NOT WORK DANGEROUS JOBS. They don’t endanger their own lives “as a matter of routine.” They don’t endanger their lives at all by going to work, at least not any more than women do.

MRAs love to give themselves credit for bravery because they share a gender with a small number of men who do in fact work dangerous jobs. But I’m guessing there are not a lot of lion tamers amongst the Men’s Rights crowd. Somehow I’m thinking that most of them have jobs that mostly involve sitting on their asses in rooms entirely devoid of lions.

Anyway, if the overwhelming majority of men don’t endanger their lives by going to work, they endanger it even less by “braving” the delivery room. Men face no actual physical threat from women who are literally flat on their back, their feet in stirrups, in the process of pushing an entire human being out through their vaginas.

But, hey, women do sometimes yell rude things during labor, so maybe it’s possible that a few of them do scratch or even bite their husbands, though the latter seems like it might be a tad difficult logistically. Some might even do so on purpose. If so, there would probably be some evidence of this somewhere online, right?

Well, I searched for a while using every combination of search words I could think of. I found an assortment of disturbing headlines about men attacking women in and around maternity wards: Guilty: man who punched and kicked pregnant girlfriend outside Poole Maternity Hospital; Man charged with assaulting pregnant girlfriend, staff in hospital maternity ward; Man Throws Meat Cleaver Into Maternity Ward.

I found disturbing statistics about pregnancy and domestic violence, which often begins or increases during pregnancy; according to one 2000 study, some 324,000 pregnant women are abused each year.

On a somewhat lighter note, I found women wondering if it was normal to have a really itchy stomach after giving birth, and another person wondering “why is my bitch digging so much after giving birth[?]” (Don’t worry; they were talking about a dog.)

Amidst all this – and many hundreds of other irrelevant results – I managed to find one example of a woman scratching a man during childbirth.

On a page in which she provided all the gory details of her 28 hours of labor – along with numerous pictures of her newborn – one new mother also posted a couple of pictures documenting the scratches she’d given her husband while in labor. (I’m not giving out the link because MRAs. )

Brace yourself. Here’s one of the pictures, with the father’s face partially blurred out:

New father displays scratches his wife gave him during her 28 hours of labor
New father displays scratches his wife gave him during her 28 hours of labor

If you look very carefully you can see four faint scratches on his forearm. The blogger isn’t a native English speaker, but as far as I can tell from what she wrote about it, she didn’t give these terrible scratches to him on purpose.

The horror!

 

 

 

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jayemgriffin
6 years ago

Maybe I just have a shitty computer, but I can’t see anything wrong with his arm? And he’s also smiling? That’s… a pretty crappy example, dude.

leatapp
leatapp
6 years ago

MRAs really are some of the stupidest, most self-centered whiners of all time.

Louise McOrmond-Plummer

Right you are lea – I just posted this on my FB wall and called them “Whiny pukes.” I did say “fuck” top my partner a couple of times in the course of delivery. He’s never gotten over it, poor darling. Thanks David for the Sunday morning giggles.

damselindetech
6 years ago


..
.

I am underwhelmed.

Helen
6 years ago

Giving birth is an amazing feat of zero skill, and it still amazes me. It amazes me that this is the epitome, the pinnacle, the supposed female trump card to all male accomplishments.

I’m sure technology will eventually enable us to connect this guy up to a virtual experience machine which will allow him to experience a “normal” say, 28 hour labour (mine was 34 but I’m kind like that.) I just. cannot. wait for that day.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

On sitcoms women in labor are always yelling at their husbands and gripping their hands too hard. Everybody knows that sitcoms are completely accurate depictions of real life. Case closed. Giving birth is misandry. Especially when a woman is giving birth to *shudder* a girl.

Tanya Nguyen
6 years ago

I have to admit, most of the women i knew, were either lovely, or said things like “i’m never letting you touch me again”, or “this is ALL YOUR FAULT” or whatever, in some sense of trying to vent out in the face of 12 or more hours of labor.

and what is with MRAs thinking the world of work is so f’ing hard? made up stat, but like 99% of all jobs involve sitting on your butt in front of a computer, or selling someone something.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

The “woman in labor hurts her SO due to pain” is such a common trope in media. When I was in middle school, I participated in rhythmic gymnastics, which requires incredible flexibility (which I completely lacked–I’m probably in the bottom quarter of flexibility). So I sucked, but had fun.

Anyway, at one tournament, one of my team mates asked for me to stand next to her so she could grab my arm for balance as our coach pressed her leg up (picture someone doing a standing splits, only a second person is pushing on the front leg). She ended up grabbing me pretty hard, so I said, “Hey, stop squeezing me! It isn’t like you’re giving birth.”

I never lived that one down 🙁

bodycrimes
6 years ago

Does he say how many kids he has? As in, has some woman kicked and punched him yet?

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

Also: long fingernails are nasty fucking weapons. I always have fairly long nails* (I don’t cut them, just wait for them to break, and they can get around a quarter of an inch long). I have been banned from thumb wars and Egyptian Rat Screw (grown-up slap jack, beloved by high-school debaters) due to mine.

I could probably break skin if I clenched too hard or if I wasn’t paying attention. Doesn’t mean its abuse, just means I should probably cut my nails if I ever give birth.

Except if I ever give birth, I plan to have them give me an epidural as soon as possible, so hopefully I won’t be in too much pain.

* Untangling knots, yo. Can’t do that without some traction.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

http://youtu.be/Gw5ayibQ-E0

Yeah. Labor hurts. Blogger should try it, before blogger knocks it as trivial.

Cuz, ow.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Video isn’t of real labor, just a simulated one. No worries, folks.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

Also: The current crop of biology undergraduates/doctoral students/young doctors is roughly 50% female. Even if the lead author on a paper (and there are two that I could think of that may be what he’s talking about when he talks about “creating life in a petri dish”, both of which involved creating 100% artificial genomes and placing them in, respectively, a bacteria and a yeast) is male, chances are there are women in the group. It isn’t uncommon to see 10+ authors on any biology paper, and that kind of work takes years and many, many collaborators, some of whom are likely to be female.

Incidentally, if it is the artificial yeast genome, which just came out in Science recently, some of that work was done by his undergraduate students, who are likely about half female.

Here’s an overview of the work:
http://www.livescience.com/44404-first-synthetic-yeast-chromosome-designer-genomes.html

And here’s a link to the article. It is behind a paywall, but you can see the authors. There are a ton, and I did in fact spot several female names.

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/344/6179/55.short

jayemgriffin
6 years ago

Thanks, David. I see them now, but I’ve still done worse to myself by accident.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Number of (cis) men who’ve died in labour: none.

Someone should tell this latest MRA whiner jokes about squirrel-gripping. Then he’d really wet himself with fear.

As for that guy’s scratches – pfft. One time I’ve faced violence (my drunken brother) I gouged his arms so hard I had skin and blood under my nails, and my nails were short.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I’ve definitely gotten worse scratches on my hands and arms playing with my kitties than this guy has.

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
6 years ago

If endangering your own life once or twice provides license to abuse a man, what does that say about our society. Particularly when he endangers his own life as a matter of routine to support you?

That is where I thought he was going. Men should be able to abuse women because they endanger their own life at work. Or at least some d00d does somewhere and that is n=more than enough justification.

zoon echon logon
zoon echon logon
6 years ago

I’ve definitely gotten worse scratches on my hands and arms playing with my kitties than this guy has.

Kitties are also misandry. They are the most misandry.

Skye
Skye
6 years ago

I’m actually sad to hear that he has a wife & kid.

Also, not only is labor a big deal, but so is being pregnant (women/girls can get all sorts of pregnancy related complications, some life threatening and many that have lasting effects).

Even without major complications, being pregnant is uncomfortable and difficult for many women. I doubt this dude would have such a cavalier attitude if he could get pregnant or give birth.

trans_commie
6 years ago

Giving birth is an amazing feat of zero skill, and it still amazes me. It amazes me that this is the epitome, the pinnacle, the supposed female trump card to all male accomplishments.

Says…who, exactly?

kittehserf
6 years ago

OT: is anyone getting a message about an untrusted connection here from Firefox? It’s come up just now when I’ve tried to go to other threads.

pipkin (king of the munchies)
pipkin (king of the munchies)
6 years ago

It’s no wonder that mra’s don’t get any time to do anything that might actually help some men.When they’re not online having a go at women (that’s putting it mildly) they’re online looking for stuff to have a go at women with.Guess it’s a slow news day for them,who new giving birth is misandry.
Also is that guy in the first picture expecting the baby to burst out of her stomach alien style?

hellkell
hellkell
6 years ago

Cool story, MRAbro.

I’ve had way worse scratches from the cats.

Lili Fugit
Lili Fugit
6 years ago

I’m on Firefox, I’m not getting that message.

I remember reading somewhere that the number one danger to pregnant women is their partners, followed by all of the many many complications of pregnancy, followed by childbirth itself. So… yeah. But some female yelled FUCK really loud while trying to push an eight pound human being out of her birth canal, and a male heard it, so misandry.

Natasha
Natasha
6 years ago

Did you all see the first comment? Too bad it didn’t have a TL;DR lol!

This particular misogynist said: “Men already have a built in empathy for women and will be right there with them to suffer alongside them. And believe me you arrogant self-righteous women who may read this. You think that you are the only one who suffers when you squeeze out a kid? If you do, you are nothing but a selfish arrogant bitch!
When a man loves his woman and sees her suffer, it causes terrible conflict, anguish and agony within himself. Not many men can just stand there, smile and not feel anything. That man is very rare indeed!

If the father showed what he suffered while witnessing his wife go through such agony, which would probably be tears and great turmoil in his face and body language, he would be resoundly abused by the woman in labour and criticised by nurses and doctors, and probably asked to get out of the labour ward and get himself together.”

Now, there isn’t too much wrong with that, except for the typical “muh suffering!!!!” that a lot of MRAs like to spew, but then look what he posted at the end of this rant:

“NO, I have absolutely no sympathy and little empathy for the pain women suffer during pregnancy or childbirth, because in general terms, it is by far much, much, less than the pain and suffering men have to endure on a regular basis and they do it non stop for decades, WITHOUT ABUSING THE PEOPLE AROUND THEM.

As you can see, this particularly nasty part of women’s privilege, really gets up my nose!”

So, at first he claimed that the pain from empathy that fathers feel for their partner giving birth is just as bad as actually giving birth, then says he doesn’t even have any empathy.

Yeah, contradict yourself more, bubba.

Not to mention that this whole “women giving birth is female privilege” bullshit. I’m sorry, but I don’t consider severe shortness of breath, nausea, severe constipation, vomiting, headaches, insomnia, stretch marks, high blood pressure, preeclampsia, gestational diabetes, the most severe pain EVER while giving birth and a decent chance of dying during labour to be some sort of fucking “privilege”.

Is there no length these misogynist assholes will stoop to?

badandfierce
6 years ago

A story my parents enjoy repeating about my birth: I was born late and a really long labor (sorry mom), so of course my mother’s trials and sufferings were being retold around family circles. Many hours, no one at the hospital thought to feed her, etc. When my aunt told her husband whatever highlights occurred to her, his reply was, “But what about Rick? He was on his feet all that time!”

…Yeah, he’s the uncle we avoid during Christmas parties.

Juliana
Juliana
6 years ago

I have scratched myself in my sleep worse than that.

My mother (who was a doctor) had stories about women in transition saying “God damn you, Joe” at every pain, but (a) their husbands weren’t in the room, and (b) it’s entirely possible the pregnancies were unplanned and they had good reason to blame their husbands (e.g., for not wearing a condom, relying on pulling out, etc.). Oh, and (c) they may have been somewhat doped up at the time, therefore not entirely responsible for what they said. (This would have been 1940s-1960s.)

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

His wife should make him wear one of those pregnancy simulating padded outfits for a few months. To fully capture what the experience of being pregnant while married to him must have been like he has to do 100% of the housework, cook all the meals, and listen patiently to her complaining about how lazy and stupid he is.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Weird, that message with all its Someone Is Tampering With This Site!!!eleventy!!! came up a couple of times and disappeared.

Just Saying!
Just Saying!
6 years ago

I love how he makes dramatic pauses and goes ‘I have … heard stories, … have seen … ‘. Sounds like there should be a big ole drum roll in the middle of it all. Well that’s game over for him and very quickly. A few comments and he’s already toast lol. MUST TRY HARDER!!

kittehserf
6 years ago

cassandra – and then he should go through the birth-simulator experience those dudes in the video did, while being told he’s making a fuss over nothing and no, he doesn’t need painkillers.

Diana Adams
Diana Adams
6 years ago

Not only 99,9% of the men who write those things aren’t risking their lives in dangerous jobs, but 99,9% of them haven’t been on the moon or accomplished any of the so called collective male achievements. By the comparision he uses the overwhelming majority of women have risked their health and their life to keep the human race going.

Oh and a woman giving birth for 20+ hours yelling and giving some scratches to her male partner? That’s obviously a horrible misandry.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

I wonder how his poor, long-suffering wife feels, being called a zero-skilled sperm thief. Or, for that matter, his mother.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Bina – well, if his mother looks at his screeds, she may well feel badly about having gone through labour and all the work of raising the kid, only to have this waste of oxygen as a result.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

You can still disown your children when they’re adults, right?

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Kittehs, you read my mind. I thought that very thing! But I don’t want to blame his mother for him being a jackass…he chose that. And truly, it is a dangerous profession, zero skill all the way, and he’s just lucky that his own damn stupidity hasn’t killed him yet.

PS: Re the error message, I didn’t get it here, but I got it from Facebook a couple of days ago. I wonder if it has anything to do with the Heartbleed bug and/or somebody trying to repair it. My own feed is showing people’s names when they comment or “like”, but not their responses to my posts.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Well, as a woman has undergone pregnancy, labor and delivery I think I’m well qualified to tell Clint Carpentier to fuck right the fuck off.

And boy do I pity his wife and his mother.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

We need to start sending out “I’m sorry you’re related to such an asshole” fruit baskets.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
6 years ago

It’s not about men’s rights; it’s about women’s wrongs. (And not only feminists as these jackasses like to claim.)

Also from Clint:

This is the only “job” affording prestige, praise, and credit, for just exercising a biological function. So, why is it a trump card? If I hadn’t spayed her, my dog could do it.

Giving birth is not like taking a shit, Clint. Not that I’ve seen a dog give birth but I’ve never heard of canine episiotomies.

Somehow I’m thinking that most of them have jobs that mostly involve sitting on their asses in rooms entirely devoid of lions.

Thank you for the above, David. I needed a laugh.

I clicked through and at the top of the AVFM page there’s a little donotlink ad for a Disney Frozen sparkle princess Elsa doll. 🙂 MISANDRY!!

breadandrosesblogger
6 years ago

I have … heard stories, have … seen the scratches and bite marks, on the fathers who braved the maternity ward. And these same brave men praise the bravery of the mothers of their children. They proudly display scars the mothers-to-be inflicted upon them during the ordeal.

I’ve heard stories about people being bitten by chupacabras. Your point?

cloudiah
6 years ago

Speaking of lion tamers… (Well okay, tiger tamer actually, but you get the drift.)

kittehserf
6 years ago

Bina – yeah, I was wondering if it had something to do with the Heartbleed business.

emilygoddess
6 years ago

A man creates life in a petri-dish

I feel like this would have made the news if it actually happened.

there really ought to be a better word for giving birth.

I happen to like “parturition”, but there’s nothing wrong with “labor”. What else would you call that level of physical exertion?

seen the scratches and bite marks, on the fathers who braved the maternity ward. And these same brave men praise the bravery of the mothers of their children.

Can’t you just see this guy after his SO gives birth? “So what if your entire abdomen was spasming for hours and your vulva is torn and you’re bleeding like a stuck pig? I have scratches on my arm!”

Particularly when he endangers his own life as a matter of routine to support you?

My partner works a desk job as a software programmer. I have eight stitches in my fucking lface from a work-related injury. My partner sometimes has to be on call on the weekend. I have had to be swept with a geiger counter after treating a patient. I’mma go out on a limb and say that of the two of us, he’s not the one with the dangerous job.

Not that I’ve seen a dog give birth but I’ve never heard of canine episiotomies.

I’ve seen them.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Why do I get the feeling that this asshat subscribes to the homunculus theory of human reproduction?

magnesium
magnesium
6 years ago

But what I don’t hear, are these stories from the female nurses, friends, mothers, sisters, etc, who are there to console and coach these single mothers-to-be.

It’s weird how these guys never hear stories from the women they know about literally anything. It’s almost as if the women who know them don’t want to speak to them unless they absolutely have to or something.

J. Schmidt
J. Schmidt
6 years ago

If endangering your own life once or twice provides license to abuse a man, what does that say about our society. Particularly when he endangers his own life as a matter of routine to support you?

Reality: Some men commit rape.

MRA response: “ITS MISANDRY TO JUDGE ALL MEN LIKE THAT”

Reality: Some men work dangerous jobs.

MRA response: “MEN RISK THEIR LIVES FOR YOU, YOU UNGRATEFUL WOMEN”

I must admit, I am amused.

Also, is he trying that men beat women because they risk their lives? I honestly don’t know; beyond the “MEN RISK THEIR LIVES FOR YOU” whine, this bit doesn’t seem to have much coherence.

If you look very carefully you can see four faint scratches on his forearm. The blogger isn’t a native English speaker, but as far as I can tell from what she wrote about it, she didn’t give these terrible scratches to him on purpose.

I have honestly hurt my partner far worse than this by accident. In the midst of some cuddling, I tried shifting my weight to get more comfortable. I accidentally put my weight onto my partner’s shoulder blade, pushing it out of place for a second. The pain she felt in her shoulder was debilitating for several days.

If cuddling is more dangerous than your supposed problem, I don’t think I care too much.

theyearofdoing
theyearofdoing
6 years ago

When I gave birth to my first child, I had my husband squeeze my hand really hard, painfully enough that it distracted me from the labor pains. One of my fingers on that hand was numb for nearly a month after. But he did have to go through all the trouble of squeezing my hand and comforting me while I got stitches in my lady parts and couldn’t sit right for 2 weeks, so clearly it was all misandry and suffering on his part.

Idiots.

cloudiah
6 years ago

A man creates life in a petri-dish

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