No long post today. Instead, I urge you to go over to the AgainstMensRights subreddit to read about how several long time Men’s Rights Redditors have doxxed and harassed a college student, with one of the regulars gleefully setting forth a plan to stalk her and ruin her life and another seeming to suggest he might want to pay her a visit to “debate” her.
Some screenshots from the original Men’s Rights subreddit discussion:
The thread (which remained up for many hours) has now been scrubbed by the Men’s Rights mods — I got these screenshots from u/Aceyjuan and u/TraceyMorganFreeman’s respective timelines — but as of right now none of the doxxers have been banned from the subreddit, or from Reddit itself.
The “crimes” of the woman in question? According to her main stalker — who has apparently been harassing her for months — she’s tweeted comments like “white men are like the gum on the bottom of my shoe” and “Jared Leto looks like the kind if guy that gives you herpes.”
Yep. Apparently the second-worst evil misandrist comment she made was … a joke about Jared Leto. For these comments, apparently she deserves to have her life ruined.
Here’s the thing: If you don’t like someone’s comments online, you are certainly well within your rights to quote them and point out why you don’t like what they said. That’s kind of the point of this blog. But it’s one thing to point out these comments, and another thing entirely to track down their identity and stalk them in real life. It’s another thing to whip up a virtual mob against them.
Doxxing by Men’s Rights Activists isn’t an accident; it’s the inevitable result of the peculiar style of Men’s Rights Activism.
MRAs, you see, seem utterly incapable of engaging in any kind of activism that might actually benefit men in the real world in any concrete manner. What they as a group specialize in is demonizing women, and in the case of too many MRAS, nothing gets their activist juices flowing faster than the opportunity to attack an individual woman.
That’s why A Voice for Men “activists” put up “wanted” style posters featuring their favorite feminist villains of the day; it’s why they started Register-Her.com. That’s why a certain red-haired Canadian activist who yelled at some MRAs once at a protest now finds her image splashed everywhere online as a visual representation of an evil feminist. That’s why MRAs show up at protests with cameras and threaten to expose the women they film — even if they’ve done nothing more than stand there with a sign.
And that’s why they doxx.
The Men’s Rights movement isn’t a civil rights movement. As it stands right now, it’s a union of abusers, and their enablers.
EDITED TO ADD: Lest anyone claim that the OP didn’t “really” dox the woman in question because he didn’t literally post all her personal details, he provided enough to allow anyone with even rudimentary Google skills to find out her real name and a great deal of other personal identifying information in less time than it would take to order a pizza online.
I kinda “love” mmn101’s logic here.
So men as a group are somehow more oppressed and blocked from doing positive social work than every other group in the history of society.
They have less rights to fund organizations than women in the days when women couldn’t own property? They have less rights to found organizations to aid their fellow members than trans* people who are more targeted for murder than any other current minority group? They have less ability to organize than gay people back when it was literally illegal to be discovered to be gay? They have less of an ability to found organizations than women targeted for rape and harassment for founding the first domestic violence shelters? Than blacks openly firebombed and targeted for lynching for forming organizations to march for rights? Than every other minority group who has been targeted with harassment, violence, threats, and so on for even doing the most obvious positive action?
Are men somehow to be believed to be more small and without alliances than asexuals? To be more considered outsider than the mentally ill or trans* people?
And furthermore, are we to buy that men are somehow so prevented from forming any form of positive activism that the only other recourse is to engage in abuse and harassment of the powerless?
Because, how’s that supposed to work, exactly?
Oh gawrsh, I really would love to create a shelter for abused men following the already well-trod playbook of domestic shelters that aid women, but it’s just so darn hard because of misandry. Clearly, the only solution is to be a complete asshole to women. That’ll totally help our movement and make us be taken seriously.
Can you imagine the reaction if, I dunno, lesbians did their activism like this. Forming no positive activist communities and just spent all their time being harassing random powerless heterosexuals?
Well, I actually could see organizations that actually help men running as fast as they could away from any association with MRAs, but that isn’t because men are oppressed, it is because MRAs are terrible people–and usually end up reinforcing the same toxic cultural stew that cause the problems in the first place–e.g., upholding rape culture and promoting violence in relationships* hurts male rape victims and domestic violence victims as well as female victims, but they don’t care.
Actually, MRAs would be the last people I’d want on a help line for victimized men, because (a) they don’t have any sense of empathy and (b) they’d just tell everyone that whatever happened to them is the fault of all women, and the cure is to be mad at all women.
*I think the leaders of the MRM have more than earned this description.
And you know what? Plenty of oppressed populations have built up their own support networks. Hell, look at all the way slaves have had to fight back–but that didn’t mean they weren’t oppressed. It is hard work, but if, as the MRAs claim, men are the only builders in society, then it should be no problem, hmm?
Yeah, I’ve encountered a number of people who seem determined to make me realize that I cannot possibly be asexual. Some people mean well – I have a friend who simply can’t understand how a person can live life without sexual attraction and often tries to convince me I’m probably demisexual. I’ve also just encountered a number of awful people who tell me I’m crazy, lying, or there’s just something wrong with me. And when my history of sexual abuse comes up people try to say “well maybe you aren’t asexual, maybe the problem is that you were molested and you are afraid of sex.”
I guess I’m a big old slut 😀 If I’m physically attracted to a men, he just has to not be awful. I should amend my previous comment though, because I actually have been put off by men I might otherwise hook up with. It’s happened a few times that a guy just starts to get too aggressive. That’s why all those PUA tactics have me rolling my eyes. Predatory is not the way into my pants. Having a half way decent and respectful conservation with me works so much better. Aggressive and predatory tactics = being awful for me.
@Lids
As a fellow ace, I’ve actually made a habit of asking sexual people what sexual attraction feels like. I’ve yet to receive a decent answer which really hammers home how much it’s just viewed as this unquestionable thing for a lot of people.
On that note, sexual commenters, I’d love to hear what sexual attraction is like for you and what it feels like.
Yeah, regardless of how any given person approaches hooking up I can’t imagine that there are very many people who find intrusive and threatening behavior to be a huge turn-on. Activating a woman’s fight or flight response is not actually a good way to make her horny.
I’m pretty sure that these blokes really don’t understand activism at all. It doesn’t even need dedication or skills – being a Lifeline or DV counsellor or a Big Brother certainly requires commitment and emotional resilience, but that’s not all you can do.
A lot of “activism” is in fact genuinely fun to do. Organise a fundraiser at your local pub or club or workplace for men – doesn’t matter which kind of problems they have. Any organisation dealing with men who are homeless, ex-prisoners, suffering from depression / other mental illness, veterans with PTSD, unemployed and needing literacy or other workplace skills will welcome you with open arms if you suggest you can get them some much needed cash for their stretched budgets. Do a bit of paperwork, use your phone/fb/social contacts, go out and have fun – dancing, drinking, eating, games, stupid quizzes and highly “desirable” door prizes or raffles, or walking, running, bowling, picnics, baseball/basketball with silly extra rules. Keen types can do the Red Cross style thing with a meal and an auction. Then hand over a cheque to a worthy cause. Win!!
And bask in the satisfaction of knowing you’ve raised awareness of an important men’s issue to a few dozen/ hundred/ thousand people. What’s not to like?
It would absolutely work that way for me if I was of the “would fuck” persuasion. Personality is key.
Lids – well, rather less than demi (never like that term much – always makes me think of “glass half empty” or Demi Moore, neither of which appeals, lol). My attraction is only to Mr K (him in my gravatar) and it kicked in the minute I saw his portrait, mumblemumble years ago, before I knew anything about him.
Cassandra – the idea of people just jumping into bed for no other reason than physical attraction, even if the other person’s a douche, doesn’t make sense to me either, both in the “Do people really do that or is it a myth?” sense and the “Gad no, not for me thanks!” sense.
WWTH – “fuck him with a caveat” sounds like an interesting if obscure curse. 😛
Cerberus –
But but but isn’t that what lesbians do anyway? I mean they’re either giving teh menz sad boners by being terrible butch types in overalls, or giving them sad boners by being hot hot hotties who aren’t interested in men. It’s misandry I say!
On the question of sexual attraction, my 1% worth (hey I’m a 1% at last! Yay, bootstraps!) is that the unlikeliest things about Mr K make me go all warm and fuzzy (or tingly, if you don’t mind the TMI). Like him being silly or just having a nap and snoring, or seeing his hair blowing about, or him absorbed in cooking something. Or bits of a body that don’t usually come to mind as sexy bits, like a bit of a curve on teh belleh, or getting a (non-sexual) neck rub. Just little things.
Okay I confess, I’m a hopeless romantic and it’s LERVE.
I am super into the bit on the inside of Mr C’s elbow, right where it folds, because the skin there is so soft. When you’re into someone you can trip on the most random things about their body.
(Watch this be totally confusing to any lurking MRAs.)
@kittehserf
I actually knew another single target person back in college who was only ever sexually attracted to one person and it was super intense for them. So I have never doubted that that is a thing that exists and that people can be it.
Yeah, it’s the randomness of the bits that is so strange, isn’t it?
The different skin textures do it for me. Like the sort of smooth but hardened pads of the fingers – not sure how to describe it – fingertips that have done oodles of manual work and are very different from mine.
Or the little tucked-in corner of the lip.
Or slightly wonky teeth.
Yay!
My gf called it Extreme Monogamy, which sounds good but terribly energetic. 😀
mmn101, the MRM has basically tried *nothing* so far. One guy — one guy — started a DV shelter in his home — and got next to no support from MRAs until after he killed himself. That’s pretty much it, as far as I can see. And instead of being inspired to actually do shit, MRAs are like, well, he tried and it didn’t work so we better not ever try ever again, feminists are mean, why don’t they do our work for us.
The civil rights movement fought against police with water hoses and KKK terrorists and changed the fucking country. The only thing the MRM is any good at is harassing women.
Also, the doxxed student wasn’t even the source of the “white men are gum” and Jared Leto tweets; she retweeted them from other people, according to the person who knows her who posted the original post to r/amr. (Her twitter account is protected.) I found the original source of the gum tweet, actually, but I’m not going to post it lest MRAs decide to dox that woman too.
I tried to write a description for awhile, then realized I couldn’t because “sexual attraction” covers such a wide range of experiences for me. The way I find a cute guy on the bus attractive isn’t the same as the way I find a guy on TV attractive, and neither is the way I find someone I know well attractive.
Hate groups do not deserve quarter, or respect. Hate groups deserve to be destroyed. If the girl we’re talking about could make any law she wanted and ruled the world, I wouldn’t have civil rights. I wouldn’t have healthcare, I wouldn’t have legal protection, and I wouldn’t be able to vote. Why? Because of the kind of person I am? No, because of the way I was born. Because of my skin color. Because of my gender. People like that can’t be allowed to influence people
But, but Freeze Peach!
Bummocks, blockquote fail ^
Prove it. If that’s true, then it should be easier to set up men’s support groups than it is to setup women’s support groups.
No. Those are not examples of activism for men. You can’t assert that it would be easy for men simply because it could be done for women.
I already gave you an example where they did and it failed. If men are so powerful, then it should be easy right?
I presume you mean the “don’t be that girl” posters. Well they did accomplish what all the polite attempts to talk about issues have didn’t: they drew attention. While that was mostly negative attention, it’s still better than nothing. When you’re marginalized, you don’t always have the luxury to ask kindly. It’s not like feminists haven’t used that tactic too.
@ Auntie Alias
Do you deny that Adele Mercier was engaging in rape apology when she classified boys having sex with adult guards as consensual sex? Would you have let a male professor off the hook for saying that girls in detention having sex with adult male guards are just having sex? I doubt it.
@ kittehserf
I didn’t.
So how might they not be one? That’s what I’m asking.
@ David
That is simply not correct and I’m sure you know it. But I don’t owe you more examples to demonstrate that it’s been attempted.
Why not take my suggestion and show us all how it’s done. Men are so powerful, it should be easy as hell to get support groups. And you know SOOO much more about activism than those dumb MRAs so it should be no problem. And, like I said, you’ll actually fight the bad guys much more effectively that way. That is what you want, right?
Is the girl in question the Queen? Or Hilary Clinton?
Hey if it looks like she’s about to become someone who rules the world (or some significant part of it) then feel free to tell everyone anything bigoted she’s said or done. Until that point, she’s just a girl writing on the internet so fuck off with the doxxing!
Oh Lord, srsly dude, I said it and you ignored it – starting groups to help support people isn’t easy. That doesn’t mean it can’t be done. You are trying to find reasons for why you CAN’T do anything but do stupid, offensive campaigns and scream incomprehensibly about the evil of women online. I can’t say I have much pity for the MRM, I’ve met guys who actually were involved with men’s rights and actually did things to help men and the refused to be affiliated with the MRM. That should tell you something.
Also, men aren’t marginalized. They’re not. I won’t deny that there are issues that men deal with, but that doesn’t make them marginalized. All the issues men face could be dealt with if they helped try to deal with women’s issues. Gender roles cause almost all male social issues.
Feminism is not evil and it doesn’t hate men. I don’t hate men. I care about men’s issues, but I group it with many other issues like women’s issues, race issues, sex and gender issues, and sexuality issues.
Which is another reason I can’t respect the MRM – from what I can tell, all they care about is men. Even if it wasn’t for the fact that they are hate group whose favorite form of “activism” is harassment and threats, I would want nothing to do with a group who has such narrow, selfish goals.
For me sexual attraction just means that when I look at or think about someone I find them aesthetically appealing and start thinking sexual thoughts about them. There’s a lot of variation in how strong attraction can be, everything from just the occasional sexual thought if the person is looking particularly good (smell can sometimes be a trigger too) or getting close physically to situations where I could see the person standing across the street wearing a potato sack and I’d be thinking about getting naked with them. What I was trying to get at earlier, though, is that for me it’s conditional, so I’ll be attracted to someone right away as soon as I see them, but if it turns out that I don’t actually like them then the attraction goes away, even though I can still recognize intellectually that they’re a good looking person. So it’s kind of an initial urge to get closer, physically, that vanishes if I get to know the person and don’t want any sort of closeness with them on a non-sexual level, or intensifies if their personality turns out to be a good match for mine.
Please do share.
@ cassandrakitty
Okay, that makes sense. I’m definitely asexual lol. I never feel the urge to have sex with anyone. I would have sex with people, and I could enjoy it, but I don’t feel attraction. Which I guess could make finding people to have sex with easier lol.
I agree with that but you should know that men don’t pick their gender roles anymore than women do. It sucks for both genders. Fortunately women have managed to expand their choices a lot in the West at least. Men haven’t. Any idea why that might be?